Investigators say battery on Boeing 787 was miswired
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TOKYO (AP) - A probe into the overheating of a lithium ion battery in an All Nippon Airways Boeing 787 that made an emergency landing found it was improperly wired, Japan's Transport Ministry said Wednesday.
The Transport Safety Board said in a report that the battery for the aircraft's auxiliary power unit was incorrectly connected to the main battery that overheated, although a protective valve would have prevented power from the auxiliary unit from causing damage.
Flickering of the plane's tail and wing lights after it landed and the fact the main battery was switched off led the investigators to conclude there was an abnormal current traveling from the auxiliary power unit due to miswiring.
The agency said more analysis was needed to determine what caused the main battery to overheat and emit the smoke that prompted the Jan. 16 emergency landing of the ANA domestic flight and the worldwide grounding of Boeing 787 jets. They said they are consulting Boeing about the issue.
The Federal Aviation Administration and aviation authorities in other countries grounded 787 fleets because of the ANA incident, which followed a battery fire earlier in January in a 787 parked in Boston.
The 787, dubbed the Dreamliner by Boeing, is the first airliner to make extensive use of lithium ion batteries, which are lighter in weight, charge faster and contain more energy than conventional batteries similar in size. However, the batteries also are more prone to overheating and catching fire.
Also Wednesday, a congressional official says Boeing will propose to federal regulators a plan to temporarily fix problems with the 787 Dreamliner's batteries.
The official said Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Ray Conner is expected to present the plan to Michael Huerta, head of the Federal Aviation Administration, in a meeting later this week. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak publicly about the plan.
The Transport Safety Board said in a report that the battery for the aircraft's auxiliary power unit was incorrectly connected to the main battery that overheated, although a protective valve would have prevented power from the auxiliary unit from causing damage.
Flickering of the plane's tail and wing lights after it landed and the fact the main battery was switched off led the investigators to conclude there was an abnormal current traveling from the auxiliary power unit due to miswiring.
The agency said more analysis was needed to determine what caused the main battery to overheat and emit the smoke that prompted the Jan. 16 emergency landing of the ANA domestic flight and the worldwide grounding of Boeing 787 jets. They said they are consulting Boeing about the issue.
The Federal Aviation Administration and aviation authorities in other countries grounded 787 fleets because of the ANA incident, which followed a battery fire earlier in January in a 787 parked in Boston.
The 787, dubbed the Dreamliner by Boeing, is the first airliner to make extensive use of lithium ion batteries, which are lighter in weight, charge faster and contain more energy than conventional batteries similar in size. However, the batteries also are more prone to overheating and catching fire.
Also Wednesday, a congressional official says Boeing will propose to federal regulators a plan to temporarily fix problems with the 787 Dreamliner's batteries.
The official said Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Ray Conner is expected to present the plan to Michael Huerta, head of the Federal Aviation Administration, in a meeting later this week. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak publicly about the plan.
Great news.. Maybe now Boeing will leave this state 100% and we can return back to real.. Take Microstuck with you and all the other lib idiots. Its about safety ..
@Buddy spud Â
Ya! That's it!!!
Let get rid of Boeing! And Microsoft! And Amazon and those liberal hippies! And Starbucks and their $4 coffee! REI - got to go man - ecoweenies!!! Costco? Get 'em out of here! They offer real pay AND benefits even for part-timers, liberal loons!!! Nordstrom - only liberal elites shop there - GET OUT OF MY UTOPIA.
Huh, why is it I can't find a job and there isn't enough taxes collected to pay for infrastructure???
But if we follow you're logic, we can turn Seattle into one great big trailer park with lifted F-150s running around in no time. I can't wait!!!
So, how many other planes are wired wrongly?
I know what caused this, I jump started my cousins car battery once so Im an expert.
@Dieseldog But did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
@Dieseldog Funny story...once when I was probably 6,7, 8 years old I decided to help my dad by jump starting the battery in his car. Of course he hadn't asked me to, didn't know I was going to, the car didn't even need it but I was going to help anyway. Well, crossed the wires so things didn't work out to well but let me tell you...that battery produced more smoke than a 4th of July celebration. Never did tell dad.
It is unlikely to be only wirering. It has to be some intermitent power flow problem. By now they probably installed so many monitors, gates, filters and coax that the whole system is safe. I wonder if electromagnetic surges were to blame.
I would bet my money mostly on some high frequency filter or shield.
I don't know!! I'm glad it's them and not me!!Â
What are you saying folks?? Are you saying that on one out of all that had emergency landings due to this battery issue was miss wired or were they all miss wired??? Come on!!
The fact of the matter is is that this plane was built by people who really never understood the Integrity of what it takes to build an aircraft as complex as the 787. 99% of the plane was built elsewhere by whomever and the people who should have built it were to told to assemble it only. Out our crap together when it come in.
It is no wonder these planes are a mess!! The design, the structure, the batteries, the auxiliaries and the way it was implemented in my opinion it was pretty sad!! And we're all suffering for bad decisions based on saving a buck!!! Now look!!Â
@reelin21 IAM shill!
@Man Seveneleven @reelin21 Â
Nice debate skills you got, Man Seveneleven. Did you hone those skills working behind the counter selling Slim Jims.
Back when this plane was being designed there were huge complaints, whistle blowers, and documented problems with all of the outsourced pieces. Most systems are built by outside contractors. Many arrive per-assembled. It's a factual statement you can take to the bank. Many of the Dreamliner delays were supplier caused.
Oh, and I don't work for Boeing. I've never worked for Boeing. I am not a shareholder of Boeing stock. I have never been a shareholder of Boeing stock. I have no family member or relative that works for Boeing. I have never had a family member or relative work for Boeing. My sister, an airline pilot, flies Airbuses (in case you get really pedantic). I work for no supplier, contractor, sub-contractor, or vendor that supports Boeing in any way. I have never worked for a supplier, contractor, sub-contractor or vendor that supports Boeing in a direct or indirect capacity.
Curious on your qualifications. Where did you get our electrical engineering degree? What is your experience with Lithium Ion batteries and large capacity engineering applications? How about your background in Mil-Spec and/or Aerospace engineering and meeting regulatory requirements? What documentation do you have to back up your implications.
Please - share with us.
(1)Â The Air India planes wer assembled in Everett and delivered from Charleston.
(2)Â The wiring in the aft section where the burning battery is located was most likely designed by an Italian "partner", the bundles were designed by a French sucontractor and assembled by their Mexican facility.Â
(3) Chances are pretty slim that a Boeing inspector had anything to do with this. The "Partners" are responsible for the quality of their own work.
(4) Get off the union thing. Do you prefer working for low wages and no benefits? Are you jealous.
@AirPlaneMan And the Air India planes were grounded before the mandatory "all aircraft grounded" announcement came out. Ahhh, the minor details the derps like to ignore to have some shred of a case.
In their own minds.
You know what I think? I think it was people from the future sent back here through a time portal. In another seven years the 787's will become self-aware, will climb to 41,000 feet, depressurize their cabins and then spiral into the closest elementary school.
About as plausible as the derps posting "union sabotage."
Well if all of the planes have the same wiring flaw, wouldn't that indicate that the problem likely was made at the design stage and not production?
@NW_erner And wouldn't this problem be in all of them?
@what? @NW_erner Yes and probably is.
@Man Seveneleven @what? @NW_erner so if it is a design flaw inspectors would be inspecting for any wiring not in accordance to the schematics? The production line followed the schematics as per directed and the inspectors as well? If this is the case, the irony in all of this is the engineers who made this $error$ just got a new contract...
That settles it. We're becoming dumber.
SURPRISE! And thanks Jim and company for thinking hiring all those 18 year olds fresh off the McDonald's fryer line (because they have grown up in a technology saavy world) was a great idea! 50+ certs apiece and they still can't plug wire A into slot B...
Yippee! Time for the "Legacy" workers to fix another problem...
@takncarabiznizI didn't have to scroll down far to find one of those "I R UNION AND R BETTER THAN STOOPID KIDZ IN SOWTH KAROLINA!" Good job.
@takncarabizniz Â
You mean retire?Â
Turn your wrench and tell everyone is is not your job, once you come off your smoke break that is.Â
@takncarabizniz You inspect the plane!
So much for Quality Control Inspections. On the other hand, how the hell do you miswire a battery? They only talk about a main and spare battery, not batteries wired in parallel or series. All batteries have only 2 leads, pos and neg which should only lead to a bus bar or equivalent for power distribution. Further, if they were built right, for failsafe aircraft installation by Ethiopian etc.  mechanics, those leads to the batteries would have been made so they could not interchange... Â
It's called self-inspection and there is a reason why it's not done on the other lines to the extent is on the 787...
@takncarabizniz Unfortunately, the fabrication of all wire bundles are self inspected
I'm thinking that naming the plane the 'dreamliner' is quite ironic as flying it appears to be a figment of our imagination...
More like pipedreamliner...
WTH? I'm not exactly buying it... From my experience working with batteries and the general knowledge on how to jump start a car, you know pretty quickly if something is miss-wired. How could this plane have been in service as long as it had been without it happening? Then magically it just popped? Yeah ok. Try again guys, there's something else going on that you're not catching. Oh, I know, maybe they used the wrong kind of paint. Yeah that's it...
@what?A Car and a 787 are two different beasts... Â
@Pierce Co Repub @what? However a battery, no matter what it goes into, functions the same. Recharging said battery also works the same. What I don't get is they still don't know what failed, the battery or the cut off switch that 'SHOULD' have prevented what occured. They're pointing the finger at the battery and made little mention of the switch that should have prevented it yet did not.
Sorry these batteries are not the same as what you use. Each cell inside is managed by itself. It is monitored for temperature and charge. So, it is more a pack of batteries with their own controllers. Quite complex. It has been the problem with Lithium-Ion for a while. These batteries are quite large, so a much more complex system. In addition it sits in an airplane, so probably several layers of additional monitoring and control.Â
But don't let the electical current know that....!!!!!
And I suppose the tires spin in opposite directions also....
I find this hard to believe. How did it ever make it through QA inspection during development?Â
Well Komo should be saying what is infact the end result of this - Short Answer: Step 1: All 787 wiring for this will be re-inspected to ensure they are NOT done incorrectly 2. Further tests will be done to ensure this is infact the problem 3. The inspector who signed off on this bad wiring job will likely be fired or seriously demoted...to something non-essential like Lavatory Inspector ... Â
Funny how this made it through all the functionals w/out a squawk in the equipment to give them an indication there was miswiring. Normally, something would send up red flags.
@takncarabizniz How do we know it didn't?
@Freespeech Agreed, however why did it take this long to discover the problem? That plane has quite a few successful flights, both prior to and post delivery. Why did it happen now and not earlier? To me, that's just as important as finding the individual(s) who signed off on the plane's electrical systems.
So reading the headline I thought the problem may have been found, yet the story says "a protective valve would have prevented power from the auxiliary unit from causing damage." Does this mean that even though it was wired wrong the problem may be a protective valve? I don't work at Boeing and know virtually nothing about airplane construction. This story is lacking clarity as to what this means for getting to the solution to the problem
@Alert Eagle Likely that the real cause has yet to be nailed down. So everyone getting upset here is just having a nice adrenaline rush for no good reason yet.
Irony: Â Naming something a Dreamliner that turns out to be a nightmare.Â
@The206Â nightmare? I guess you are too young to remember DC-10's or the birthing pains of the 737.
May this be the worst problem facing the Dreamliner.Â
@Iconoclast @The206 The 737 didn't have the problems that the DC-10's did. In fact, none of the Boeing planes were plagued by the extent of the problems the Dreamliner is. I think this is what happens when Boeing corporate goes cheap by sourcing parts and assemblies all around the world instead of handling it in house. They gave up a lot of the control in the name of making a few more (hundred thousand) dollars...
@what? heh, I still remember the flap about 737 autopilots doing a 180 degree flip.
@Iconoclast @The206 I do remember a number of issues with the DC-10.  I was just referring to the fact that the 787 has been in the news from the beginning and 90% has been bad news.  From delay after delay after delay to this most current problem.  Publicly this plane as been a nightmare for Boeing
@The206Â The joke at Boeing at the time was "how do you grow a DC-10? Build a field and wait". Gallows humor, true. But that was never said about a Boeing plane that I ever knew about (only worked at Boeing for 3 years as a programmer for Tech Staffs & Simulation)
Follow the delays for the A350 or the A380. We see a lot of the press because of our closeness to Boeing as well as the usual labor disputes. And good news just doesn't sell like bad news.
Delays happen when you build something very new. An aircraft isn't a website that, if it crashes, you just reload the browser. A few year delay over a 30+ year life isn't much of an issue.
Hmmm...wonder who signed off on that job. He/she may no longer have a job. Oh, wait...union shop. You have to keep the bad ones along with the good.
@SheilaKAI was able to keep the Boeing subcontractor I worked for from shipping parts with a hidden defect in great part BECAUSE it was a union shop so I knew they couldn't fire me for being a whistle blower.  Get a clue.
@SheilaKAÂ Why dont you wait and find out all of the facts before you start throwing stones.
@SheilaKAThis was done at the non-union shop in SC, you know, that great uneducated, poverty-level education labor.
@NW-Economist @SheilaKA Another IAM know nothing.
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@NW-Economist @roland @Vince @SheilaKA prove you're not a union moron. what an idiot....
@NW-Economist @roland @Vince @SheilaKA Wow, what's next, my dad can beat up your dad? Â
@roland @NW-Economist @Vince @SheilaKAProve it.
@NW-Economist@Vince@SheilaKAWRONG!!, All the planes with issues were assembled in Everett. The only planes delivered from SC are Air India which have had no issues. All other planes assembled in SC are sitting on the flight line that I am currently looking out the window at. Â
@Vince @NW-Economist @SheilaKAWrong, they were assembled and wired in SC. Cheap labor, cheap results.Â
@Vince @NW-Economist @SheilaKA  The battery probably comes assembled from a contractor.Â