Labor dispute between Boeing, SPEEA escalates
SEATTLE -- A labor dispute between Boeing and its SPEEA union is escalating.
The union, which represents Boeing's white-collar workers, said Monday its bargaining unit councils voted to send the latest Boeing contract proposal to its members for a vote. But it's strongly urging the union members to vote no.
In a letter to the company, the union blasts the proposed wages and changes to employee benefits.
Boeing had no comment as of late Monday night.
The union, which represents Boeing's white-collar workers, said Monday its bargaining unit councils voted to send the latest Boeing contract proposal to its members for a vote. But it's strongly urging the union members to vote no.
In a letter to the company, the union blasts the proposed wages and changes to employee benefits.
Boeing had no comment as of late Monday night.
And back at HQ... Boeing CEO gets 34% increase in 2011..
I guess having a job at all isnt enough? I know plenty of people that have been working for the same wages and increased health care costs for years now, and arent complaining. This makes me scratch my head; it seems like unions simply are never satisfied with what they have. But then again, I have never worked for one, and if I can help it, never will. I would rather think for myself, and handle my own affairs.
@northwestsurfer about 1 or 2%Â of negotiations ever wind up in a strike so 98% seem satified to me, can you find 98% percent of people satisfied with anything?. In addition, do you have any idea how wrong something is if peple are willing to strike? Workers dont just simply throw down their tools and risk everything for nothing, it would be silly to assume anything else in that regard. The union leadership dont want it because they cant collect dues during the strike but are shelling out strike benefits and paying negotiators to find common ground.
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"I have never worked for one, and if I can help it, never will." Nor do union members work "for a union" because a union is simply a group of US workers that have chosen their right, under the law, to bargin collectively with their employer. Nothing more, nothing less. Its not the big ugly monster these folks seem to think it is. It is just trade unionism that BTW was at its pinnacle while the US middleclass was at its pinnacle, when this society was at its pinnacle and when this country was the strongest, most powerful econmic machine the world had ever seen. It is interesting that you folks never can explain those facts away and ignore deepening problems with a society that has no pathway for young men and women to find family wage work in a consumer based economy. I just hope there is something left when you finally connect the dots.
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If none of this makes sense to you, wait and watch Boeing's actions with regard to negotiations anytime they have orders for planes because they always have a penalty clause in the orders for planes that they will be delivered on said date unless there is an act of God or, a Labor Dispute. If you start paying attention, you'll soon see that this is Boeing's way to slime out of their deal with their customer by inducing a labor dispute. They made the date and then induce to get out of it and you think to blame US workers? They've done it time and time again. They just throw in something draconian to create a deal breaker and sit back and watch the union save them again.
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Watch how fast this society deteriorates as trade unionism continues to wain. Its all connected, sooner or later, hungry families WILL eat whether they earned it or not, guess what the future holds for you if people cant feed their families.
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 @northwestsurfer I used to think like that, I worked at a company for 11 years, non-union. It took me that 11 years to get up to $16.50, I needed more but I was not getting it. Took a $4 dollar cut to come to Boeing 5 years ago. I'm making over $21 now and still have plenty more coming. The unions are good and bad, the good outweighs the bad.
Ok. you make a very good point. I started out in IT as an entery level software tester at Microsoft back in 2000 (contractor), making $15 per hour. I have moved through the contract world over the years, gravitated from testing to network administration and systems engineering. Now I make $60 per hour, and have negotiated my own rates always, even used leverage such as leaving a job in order to get what I wanted. I also have been fired in the past for unfair reasons, and did not have a union to turn to.
But for me, the simple reason I would not work for one, is the one here. Most people would just be happy to be gainfully employed.
It took a while, but it's nice to see people hate SPEEA just as much as the do us IAM folks.
Don't blame them for asking for more of the record profits. And when you factor in food and fuel, inflation is getting close to 12% a year. But its been heading that way ever since the early 70's when middle class income has slowly decreased and corporate profits have increased. Time to put and end to inflation. End the Federal Reserve will go a long ways in fixing some of our economical problems.
As a SPEEA member, let me shed some light on the situation. Here is an excerpt from the email the company sent to us on friday:
"Boeing today presented the balance of its initial economic proposal to SPEEA, including annual wage increases that more than offset some increased health insurance cost sharing proposed for employees"
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As you see, it says "initial economic proposal" which I take to mean that this is their starting point for bargaining.
Yes, it is a slap in the face to all of us who have spent the last few years working a lot of overtime, taking time away from our families, so that we could keep the 787, 747-8, and the 767 tanker on schedule. All along the company has said: "we won't forget the sacrifices you have made", and we just want them to live up to that promise.
The offer states that it is an overall 3% hike (factoring in the health care costs) for the Professional Engineers, and a 2% hike (factoring in the health care costs) for Technical Engineers. For me, 2% over 4 years will not even get anywhere near keeping up with inflation, meaning that I will poorer next year than this year.
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During the tough times, we have been asked to help shoulder the burden, and settle for less, to help the company stay afloat. Now the the company is making money hand-over-fist, and it is time for them to stand by their word.
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From what I have seen, and been told, this offer will be rejected and both sides will go back to the bargaining table, and the October 6th deadline will come and go without a contract (or a strike), and that this will probably drag out into November before we see resolution.
 @Ranger Rick And you call yourself a Professional?  I am a working professional and take care of my own salary and bargaining for my own rights.  You decided to work for Boeing so take the good with the bad and get with the times.  Most employers aren't even giving raises to their employees and everyone is in the same boat with the healthcare issue.  If you aren't happy go find yourself another job (let's see how easy that is).
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 @Whocares  @Ranger Rick The point is that the company asked us to hold the line when times were tough, and when things got better we would be rewarded. We held up our end, now it's their turn to hold up theirs.
 @Whocares  @Ranger Rick Boeing is not "Most employers"
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 @Dannyboy  @Ranger Rick Why would he put himself in the shoes of state employee's working for a state that does not make record profits?
I went from being self employed framer to being a drafting tech at Boeing, omg, what a change. I got called into the office and told to slow down, wth. The hardest part of the job was to look busy with a job finished on your desk. I got laid off with a bunch of techs after 911. Now I work at Home Depot,,,,god I miss Boeing....hate retail.
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Wow - you non-union people really don't have a clue. Maybe it's time to crack the old history books for a refresher on how unions made SURE big business (and small) didn't run totally over the workers. The loss of union support over this past 25 years has and will continue to ensure business does whatever it wants to its workers. If you think companies have YOUR needs first in mind you are really not paying attention. The only reason we have medical coverage, vacations, overtime, pay-for-work, safety in the work place, standard set of hours for a "work week," rules against exporting all our work to low-cost countries, and just plain oversight of worker treatment is due to the blood, sweat and tears of unions. Those first union people gave us ALL these benefits and protections.  If you're too young to know this, you need to understand it before blasting the unions. Those of you who love to throw the "Lazy B" out there, have never been a Boeing employee. There is ALWAYS deadwood in an organization, and Boeing is no different. However, the level of education, knowledge and pride in this business is at an all-time high, yet the company would just LOVE to close down any organization that stops it from pulling ALL the stops out for the Stockholders and Execs  so THEY reap the benefits of this company, not the workers. You non-supporters make me crazy. Pull your heads out.
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@Dannyboy @GetOverYourself Please explain the decline in real wages when you consider inflation over the last thirty years.
I wish I wasn't part of this stupid union. If I had it my way I would have never joined. I'm perfectly happy with my wage and benefits and consider myself lucky to even have a job in this tough economy.
 @Nick I'm happy with the wage and benefits I receive as well. Unfortunately those wages and benefits are going down (based on inflation) while the companies profits are going up (despite inflation). You do have one thing correct, I too consider myself blessed to have a good job during this time!
you are an idiot. you are the type that make it easy for Boeing to try to screw us.Â
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The company has offered NO signing Bonus (as was given to IAM $5000). Lower wage increase than we have seen in 40 years. Wage increase well below inflation (look it up). No real COLA as IAM gets. EIP reduced to 4% (14 days is %5.5) Elimination of New Hire pension and replaced with a very poor replacement (IAM still retains there new hire pension). Increas in dental starting 2016. Increase in medical deductible up to $1800 a year. Word that allows the company to eliminate retiree medical insurance for those retiring before this contract.Â
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Engineers are what pulled this company out of the shitter after poor management of hte 787 program. The company is enjoying success after 2 years of engineer/techs busting their butts. Senior Execs making huge bonuses. Increased dividend for stock holders.
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Are you just stupid or what?
@Rubydoo Right on man!!
I've been on both sides, one as an IAM member and now for the past 5 years a member of SPEEA. Nick is an IDIOT, he obviously has not really looked at this nor has he been in one of these. I told my other co-workers that 4 years ago when Boeing was not in such a good financial way I didn't care about more money, bonuses or modest raises. Now Boeing has huge back logs, big profits, and is giving it's senior managers MILLIONS!! I'm just saying do what's fair for the people who brought this program from the brink of bankruptcy!  And has now deliverd 21 planes!
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@Dannyboy @Rubydoo "Corporations run this country whether you like it or not."
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"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.â --Benito Mussolini
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70 years ago we sent kids to die fighting facism all over this world and free the poor bastards that were trying to escape what you embrace. I think your a fascist and dont know it just the same as you're pissin on those kids' graves and dont know you bastard.
 @Dannyboy  @Rubydoo I think it was more like "This time it's our time" and we got 8 weeks off for that.
 @rubydoo If you are so unhappy working there why not leave? There are other companies that are hiring.
 @Nick It is interesting that no conscripted union member has ever waged a legal action against their union for a violation of their Constitutional rights under case law.
Just one more reason to pass Right-To-Work (http://www.right-to-work.org) laws in this State. If you want to be a member of a Union that is your right and choice. It is also not a choice that should be forced upon the workers. No worker should be forced to pay to have a job.
 @Rider You mean Right To Starve State?
 @rockguy People should have the right to starve if that is what they wish to do. Just as much as people should have the right to either join a union or not without it being a job requirement. If a worker wants all the rights, privileges, benefits, and drawbacks of being a union member that is there business. Just as much as if a worker wants all the rights, privileges, benefits, and drawbacks of not being affiliated with a union.
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What right does a union have to usurp the Constitutional rights of the worker?
 @Rider  @rockguy When it comes to big business, the constitutional rights of anyone don't matter.
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Only money.
 @rockguy  @Rider No, it means the right not to be bullied.
@Dan Sherman "In fact, my grandfather was one of those who fought for the unions back in the days when the coal miners where being abused. For those things I think unions serve their purpose, as did my grandfather."
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You must mean like the abuse endured by the 29 families that were victim of the outlaw non union Massey Mine a couple of years ago? 29 dead after more then 700 safety issues and none resolved.
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" though now the government has taken side with unions and crafted laws that favor unions."
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Which government? A little time spent reaserching US labor Law and comparing it to other industrialised nations' Labor Law shows that the US trails terribly in rights for workers union or non union. Do the work and you'll be astounded, I promise. We are way behind.
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"I believe that workers should get raises based on merit. Not collective bullying. I also believe in freedom and that I should have to go through a union if a company is hiring. Are you an enemy of freedom and the right to succeed based on merit?"
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I believe that raises should be based on proficiency and profitability and cost of living. A consumer based economy demands that the consumer have the ability to pay before capital is increased on a product or service.
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I am also interested in hearing who has been collectively bullied because Federal Labor Law clearly states the the parties are to meet to bargain but that carries no commitment to reach a settlement by either party. The employer is free to bargain for a year and implement their last best and final offer. I dont really expect you to produce a list of "collectively bullied" employers nor will you even be able to provide a list of employers that did implement as is their right. So again, it seems as if management is the problem you would like to blame labor (US families) for.
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You have always had the freedom to work for a non union company, no one is denying that. However, if a majority of workers vote to be union should you have the freedom to destroy their democracy that is protected under the law? Is that what you really want, I wish your Grand Dad was still around to straighten you out. Good Luck
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 @T_BONE_WALKER Sorry, should be: "I shouldn't have to go through a union.:
@T_BONE_WALKER
. I've never been a union member. I know people who are, and I have family members who are. In fact, my grandfather was one of those who fought for the unions back in the days when the coal miners where being abused. For those things I think unions serve their purpose, as did my grandfather. But I drop my support the moment they use their collective to bully employers to force pay raises for those workers who do not deserve it.
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I'm also not saying that unions are unconstitutional, though now the government has taken side with unions and crafted laws that favor unions.
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I believe that workers should get raises based on merit. Not collective bullying. I also believe in freedom and that I should have to go through a union if a company is hiring. Are you an enemy of freedom and the right to succeed based on merit?
@Dan Sherman @rockguy @Rider Whos been picking on you Dan? I get the impression that you may have been a union member in the past but couldn't handle the trade and when the union couldn't make you fit in you lost your job and are still blaming the union. Is that whats going on here Dan? A union is nothing more then groups of US workers exercising their right, under the constituion, to association and representation and also have helped protect the welfare of US families for decades. Are you an enemy of US families Dan?
....And here we go again!.....
Just more ammo for Boeing to pack up and leave this state...
The union had better catch a clue. The economy stinks, and won't recover for a few years. Now is not the time for making big demands. Boeing has demonstrated the willingness to move manufacturing to states with a better business climate.
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SPEEA is making a decision they rather have NO jobs at a higher wage vs. jobs a slightly lower wage.
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If the State of Washington and the Unions don't wake up and smell the coffee Boeing will be all be gone from WA in 10 years. Gary Locke was shocked! Shocked when Boeing moved HQ to Chicago. Boeing watchers said "where have you been for the last 10 years?"
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Every move Boeing has made, Chicago, Charlotte, had been telegraphed long before.
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Boeing will be moving to Texas within a decade, unless some changes are made.
@JCM1776 You're absolutely right and thats exactly why you need strong trade unions, so the US corporation cant whipsaw one American off of another in a race to the bottom.
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Found this in Forbes 12-21-2010:
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In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germanyâs big three car companiesâBMW, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz), and Volkswagenâare very profitable.
How can that be? The question is explored in a new article from Remapping Debate, a public policy e-journal. Its author, Kevin C. Brown, writes that âthe salient difference is that, in Germany, the automakers operate within an environment that precludes a race to the bottom; in the U.S., they operate within an environment that encourages such a race.â
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Theres more but why bother, US workers have been strappin those racing sneakers on for about 30 years now. See what it has produced? Its destroyed your country, your society, and any chance for your children to have a chance.
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Damned Unions huh?
 @T_BONE_WALKER  @JCM1776 I notice that the Forbes article doesn't address cost of living, nor does it take currency values into consideration. It also does not does not address all the countries with labor unions that are helping to push countries debt levels to highs that have never been seen before.
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Other things it doesn't address are things such as the in ability to fire lazy or incompetent workers. Why do you think Boeing got the name "The Lazy-B?"
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Damned Unions? Yup!
@Dan Sherman OK I had one of the girls here help with the link thing.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/
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I hope that works I dont know how to work these damned things.Â
@Dan Sherman I saw 41 years of it. "The only thing the union heads are interested is the money they raise through dues....."
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Got the link so I know you're not lying to me? Their wages are public info, go get it and show me. Start at the Dept of Labor site and look up LM-2 forms and use that to support your claim.
 @T_BONE_WALKER Well, I haven't seen a true union by your description. The only thing the union heads are interested is the money they raise through dues..... sort of like the company execs do.
 @T_BONE_WALKER  I did try to search it and found nothing. You are that one citing an article, you are the one who should provide a link to the article instead of simply cutting out bits you want to present. So, to me, it looks like you fabricated it.
@Dan Sherman No I've never worked there but, I've always been union since I was 16 yrs old though and damned proud to have been associated with some of the scrappiest, hardest working SOBs that walked on the planet. Employers demanded to be union just to have access to that kind of labor, much like the building trades now a days. You still have employers crying union but the second the union tells the employer "Were taking our guys back to the hall and dispacthing them to your ompetition" they cry all over the place begging for forgiveness. The employers may fool some of you guys with their bs but I know how it works.
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Boeing does sound like it may have problems and I can only hope those guys are putting out at 110% because the only way you can protect US families is to protect US jobs by covering the work 110% better then anyone on the planet. Thats what true trade unionism is, protecting families with good quality clean work produced proficientely.
@Dan Sherman Didn't need a link, you have the date go find it yourself. I am too old to know how to post a damned link anyway.
 @T_BONE_WALKER Have you ever worked at a place like Boeing? The lazy workers don't tell their supervisor that they won't do it. They simply poke along and take their time, and often hope someone else will do something so they don't have to. I hear Boeing workers gripe about those type of workers. And, if you complain about them then there's a good chance that you will get flack from the union, depending on who it is and what games they play.
 @T_BONE_WALKER Post a link to the article and I will go look at the article. You didn't provide one.
@Dan Sherman @JCM1776 "Other things it doesn't address are things such as the in ability to fire lazy or incompetent workers. Why do you think Boeing got the name "The Lazy-B?"
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Dan. if a supervisor tells you to do something and you dont, thats whats known as insubordination and it is a very serious offense that carries no union recourse. If management doesn't enforce its rights, thats the only way that employee is protected. No Arbitrator in the world sides with a union member guilty of insubordination. If you were caught stealing materials could the union save your job? Nope, they likely wouldnt even spend members money defending you on such a loser case. Same holds true with stealing time. If management doesn't choose to exercise their rights under the agreement and the law, how can you blame the union?
@Dan Sherman @JCM1776 The countries with the huge debt levels are the ones that were convinced by our Brokers to buy into the Triple A rated securities scam wherein the States bundled sub-prime loans with prime loans and sold them as Triple A along with selling derivitives on those fraudulent US securities. And speaking of debt, if you're right, our debt should be at its lowest because trade unionism is at its lowest and wages terms and conditions are at their lowest in 30 years when adjusted for inflation. I really cant think of a country with a higher debt level then the US.
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Germany's only economic troubles come from slowed trade due to primary trade partners being conned and losing out like Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Ireland, England, among others. They also have been spending lots of money trying to bail out those countries that were conned like the US when it printed 21 Trillion and sent it over to European banks and business without your consent. Their GDP has been positive growth up until '09 and  of the world's 500 largest stock-market-listed companies measured by revenue in 2010, the Fortune Global 500, 37 are headquartered in Germany.
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It aint the worker, Dan and did you even go look at the Forbes article before you made your rash unfounded claims? Look at Norway, Sweden, and the rest of the Countries up in Northern Europe that had the sense not to deregulate their financial sectors despite pressure from the US to do so. Their economies are slower then usual again because of trade partners being bilked by the US Brokers. Germany is still the third largest exporter and importer in the world. Please explain all of that away.
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@Dannyboy Danny how do you explain away the fact that this country was the richest, strongest,  most powerful country the world's history had ever known and had a society that was at it's pinnacle while trade unionism was at its pinnacle. Everytime you beat the working man down you destroy a little more of this country and its society til you have what you've got now.
 @Dannyboy You sound just like a lot of other management's barking lap dogs. Didn't you hear? McCarthy wasn't that cool...
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Sorry you are so bitter, it must really suck. Maybe instead of deriding others' strength, you got a little backbone of your own, you might be better off.Â
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Vote Quimby!
Sounds like you hate your job. I suggest you go to work where you'll be more appreciated and taken care of.
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Wow, I've been at Boeing 16 years. Accountabilitly is something that I deal with everyday. It certainly is funny that your opinion is so biased. Ignorance is bliss they say. I've moved all over this company and have taken advantage of Boeing putting me through school which I was also held accountable for.
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Hating us IAM or SPEEA doesn't make you beautiful!
 @Dannyboy Well, you know so little about Unions and teh people they protect. As a SPEEA member myself, when you get laid off for having a Non-Union Job at Boeing, the rest of use will smile on your way out the door.... Good luck.
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@Audio Cat @Dannyboy @SeaVHfan Thats where the "boy" part of his name came from.
For such a hard working ethical man you sure spend a lot of time commenting on this article. What, no work today?
 @Dannyboy  @SeaVHfan So you are a scab as well?
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Verrrry honorable. Good dog!