Hospitals crack down on workers refusing flu shots

CHICAGO (AP) - Patients can refuse a flu shot. Should doctors and nurses have that right, too? That is the thorny question surfacing as U.S. hospitals increasingly crack down on employees who won't get flu shots, with some workers losing their jobs over their refusal.
"Where does it say that I am no longer a patient if I'm a nurse," wondered Carrie Calhoun, a longtime critical care nurse in suburban Chicago who was fired last month after she refused a flu shot.
Hospitals' get-tougher measures coincide with an earlier-than-usual flu season hitting harder than in recent mild seasons. Flu is widespread in most states, and at least 20 children have died.
Most doctors and nurses do get flu shots. But in the past two months, at least 15 nurses and other hospital staffers in four states have been fired for refusing, and several others have resigned, according to affected workers, hospital authorities and published reports.
In Rhode Island, one of three states with tough penalties behind a mandatory vaccine policy for health care workers, more than 1,000 workers recently signed a petition opposing the policy, according to a labor union that has filed suit to end the regulation.
Why would people whose job is to protect sick patients refuse a flu shot? The reasons vary: allergies to flu vaccine, which are rare; religious objections; and skepticism about whether vaccinating health workers will prevent flu in patients.
Dr. Carolyn Bridges, associate director for adult immunization at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, says the strongest evidence is from studies in nursing homes, linking flu vaccination among health care workers with fewer patient deaths from all causes.
"We would all like to see stronger data," she said. But other evidence shows flu vaccination "significantly decreases" flu cases, she said. "It should work the same in a health care worker versus somebody out in the community."
Cancer nurse Joyce Gingerich is among the skeptics and says her decision to avoid the shot is mostly "a personal thing." She's among seven employees at IU Health Goshen Hospital in northern Indiana who were recently fired for refusing flu shots. Gingerich said she gets other vaccinations but thinks it should be a choice. She opposes "the injustice of being forced to put something in my body."
Medical ethicist Art Caplan says health care workers' ethical obligation to protect patients trumps their individual rights.
"If you don't want to do it, you shouldn't work in that environment," said Caplan, medical ethics chief at New York University's Langone Medical Center. "Patients should demand that their health care provider gets flu shots - and they should ask them."
For some people, flu causes only mild symptoms. But it can also lead to pneumonia, and there are thousands of hospitalizations and deaths each year. The number of deaths has varied in recent decades from about 3,000 to 49,000.
A survey by CDC researchers found that in 2011, more than 400 U.S. hospitals required flu vaccinations for their employees and 29 hospitals fired unvaccinated employees.
At Calhoun's hospital, Alexian Brothers Medical Center in Elk Grove Village, Ill., unvaccinated workers granted exemptions must wear masks and tell patients, "I'm wearing the mask for your safety," Calhoun says. She says that's discriminatory and may make patients want to avoid "the dirty nurse" with the mask.
The hospital justified its vaccination policy in an email, citing the CDC's warning that this year's flu outbreak was "expected to be among the worst in a decade" and noted that Illinois has already been hit especially hard. The mandatory vaccine policy "is consistent with our health system's mission to provide the safest environment possible."
The government recommends flu shots for nearly everyone, starting at age 6 months. Vaccination rates among the general public are generally lower than among health care workers.
According to the most recent federal data, about 63 percent of U.S. health care workers had flu shots as of November. That's up from previous years, but the government wants 90 percent coverage of health care workers by 2020.
The highest rate, about 88 percent, was among pharmacists, followed by doctors at 84 percent, and nurses, 82 percent. Fewer than half of nursing assistants and aides are vaccinated, Bridges said.
Some hospitals have achieved 90 percent but many fall short. A government health advisory panel has urged those below 90 percent to consider a mandatory program.
Also, the accreditation body over hospitals requires them to offer flu vaccines to workers, and those failing to do that and improve vaccination rates could lose accreditation.
Starting this year, the government's Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services is requiring hospitals to report employees' flu vaccination rates as a means to boost the rates, the CDC's Bridges said. Eventually the data will be posted on the agency's "Hospital Compare" website.
Several leading doctor groups support mandatory flu shots for workers. And the American Medical Association in November endorsed mandatory shots for those with direct patient contact in nursing homes; elderly patients are particularly vulnerable to flu-related complications. The American Nurses Association supports mandates if they're adopted at the state level and affect all hospitals, but also says exceptions should be allowed for medical or religious reasons.
Mandates for vaccinating health care workers against other diseases, including measles, mumps and hepatitis, are widely accepted. But some workers have less faith that flu shots work - partly because there are several types of flu virus that often differ each season and manufacturers must reformulate vaccines to try and match the circulating strains.
While not 100 percent effective, this year's vaccine is a good match, the CDC's Bridges said.
Several states have laws or regulations requiring flu vaccination for health care workers but only three - Arkansas, Maine and Rhode Island - spell out penalties for those who refuse, according to Alexandra Stewart, a George Washington University expert in immunization policikfriedenes and co-author of a study appearing this month in the journal Vaccine.
Rhode Island's regulation, enacted in December, may be the toughest and is being challenged in court by a health workers union. The rule allows exemptions for religious or medical reasons, but requires unvaccinated workers in contact with patients to wear face masks during flu season. Employees who refuse the masks can be fined $100 and may face a complaint or reprimand for unprofessional conduct that could result in losing their professional license.
Some Rhode Island hospitals post signs announcing that workers wearing masks have not received flu shots. Opponents say the masks violate their health privacy.
"We really strongly support the goal of increasing vaccination rates among health care workers and among the population as a whole," but it should be voluntary, said SEIU Healthcare Employees Union spokesman Chas Walker.
Supporters of health care worker mandates note that to protect public health, courts have endorsed forced vaccination laws affecting the general population during disease outbreaks, and have upheld vaccination requirements for schoolchildren.
Cases involving flu vaccine mandates for health workers have had less success. A 2009 New York state regulation mandating health care worker vaccinations for swine flu and seasonal flu was challenged in court but was later rescinded because of a vaccine shortage. And labor unions have challenged individual hospital mandates enacted without collective bargaining; an appeals court upheld that argument in 2007 in a widely cited case involving Virginia Mason Hospital in Seattle.
Calhoun, the Illinois nurse, says she is unsure of her options.
"Most of the hospitals in my area are all implementing these policies," she said. "This conflict could end the career I have dedicated myself to."
"Where does it say that I am no longer a patient if I'm a nurse," wondered Carrie Calhoun, a longtime critical care nurse in suburban Chicago who was fired last month after she refused a flu shot.
Hospitals' get-tougher measures coincide with an earlier-than-usual flu season hitting harder than in recent mild seasons. Flu is widespread in most states, and at least 20 children have died.
Most doctors and nurses do get flu shots. But in the past two months, at least 15 nurses and other hospital staffers in four states have been fired for refusing, and several others have resigned, according to affected workers, hospital authorities and published reports.
In Rhode Island, one of three states with tough penalties behind a mandatory vaccine policy for health care workers, more than 1,000 workers recently signed a petition opposing the policy, according to a labor union that has filed suit to end the regulation.
Why would people whose job is to protect sick patients refuse a flu shot? The reasons vary: allergies to flu vaccine, which are rare; religious objections; and skepticism about whether vaccinating health workers will prevent flu in patients.
Dr. Carolyn Bridges, associate director for adult immunization at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, says the strongest evidence is from studies in nursing homes, linking flu vaccination among health care workers with fewer patient deaths from all causes.
"We would all like to see stronger data," she said. But other evidence shows flu vaccination "significantly decreases" flu cases, she said. "It should work the same in a health care worker versus somebody out in the community."
Cancer nurse Joyce Gingerich is among the skeptics and says her decision to avoid the shot is mostly "a personal thing." She's among seven employees at IU Health Goshen Hospital in northern Indiana who were recently fired for refusing flu shots. Gingerich said she gets other vaccinations but thinks it should be a choice. She opposes "the injustice of being forced to put something in my body."
Medical ethicist Art Caplan says health care workers' ethical obligation to protect patients trumps their individual rights.
"If you don't want to do it, you shouldn't work in that environment," said Caplan, medical ethics chief at New York University's Langone Medical Center. "Patients should demand that their health care provider gets flu shots - and they should ask them."
For some people, flu causes only mild symptoms. But it can also lead to pneumonia, and there are thousands of hospitalizations and deaths each year. The number of deaths has varied in recent decades from about 3,000 to 49,000.
A survey by CDC researchers found that in 2011, more than 400 U.S. hospitals required flu vaccinations for their employees and 29 hospitals fired unvaccinated employees.
At Calhoun's hospital, Alexian Brothers Medical Center in Elk Grove Village, Ill., unvaccinated workers granted exemptions must wear masks and tell patients, "I'm wearing the mask for your safety," Calhoun says. She says that's discriminatory and may make patients want to avoid "the dirty nurse" with the mask.
The hospital justified its vaccination policy in an email, citing the CDC's warning that this year's flu outbreak was "expected to be among the worst in a decade" and noted that Illinois has already been hit especially hard. The mandatory vaccine policy "is consistent with our health system's mission to provide the safest environment possible."
The government recommends flu shots for nearly everyone, starting at age 6 months. Vaccination rates among the general public are generally lower than among health care workers.
According to the most recent federal data, about 63 percent of U.S. health care workers had flu shots as of November. That's up from previous years, but the government wants 90 percent coverage of health care workers by 2020.
The highest rate, about 88 percent, was among pharmacists, followed by doctors at 84 percent, and nurses, 82 percent. Fewer than half of nursing assistants and aides are vaccinated, Bridges said.
Some hospitals have achieved 90 percent but many fall short. A government health advisory panel has urged those below 90 percent to consider a mandatory program.
Also, the accreditation body over hospitals requires them to offer flu vaccines to workers, and those failing to do that and improve vaccination rates could lose accreditation.
Starting this year, the government's Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services is requiring hospitals to report employees' flu vaccination rates as a means to boost the rates, the CDC's Bridges said. Eventually the data will be posted on the agency's "Hospital Compare" website.
Several leading doctor groups support mandatory flu shots for workers. And the American Medical Association in November endorsed mandatory shots for those with direct patient contact in nursing homes; elderly patients are particularly vulnerable to flu-related complications. The American Nurses Association supports mandates if they're adopted at the state level and affect all hospitals, but also says exceptions should be allowed for medical or religious reasons.
Mandates for vaccinating health care workers against other diseases, including measles, mumps and hepatitis, are widely accepted. But some workers have less faith that flu shots work - partly because there are several types of flu virus that often differ each season and manufacturers must reformulate vaccines to try and match the circulating strains.
While not 100 percent effective, this year's vaccine is a good match, the CDC's Bridges said.
Several states have laws or regulations requiring flu vaccination for health care workers but only three - Arkansas, Maine and Rhode Island - spell out penalties for those who refuse, according to Alexandra Stewart, a George Washington University expert in immunization policikfriedenes and co-author of a study appearing this month in the journal Vaccine.
Rhode Island's regulation, enacted in December, may be the toughest and is being challenged in court by a health workers union. The rule allows exemptions for religious or medical reasons, but requires unvaccinated workers in contact with patients to wear face masks during flu season. Employees who refuse the masks can be fined $100 and may face a complaint or reprimand for unprofessional conduct that could result in losing their professional license.
Some Rhode Island hospitals post signs announcing that workers wearing masks have not received flu shots. Opponents say the masks violate their health privacy.
"We really strongly support the goal of increasing vaccination rates among health care workers and among the population as a whole," but it should be voluntary, said SEIU Healthcare Employees Union spokesman Chas Walker.
Supporters of health care worker mandates note that to protect public health, courts have endorsed forced vaccination laws affecting the general population during disease outbreaks, and have upheld vaccination requirements for schoolchildren.
Cases involving flu vaccine mandates for health workers have had less success. A 2009 New York state regulation mandating health care worker vaccinations for swine flu and seasonal flu was challenged in court but was later rescinded because of a vaccine shortage. And labor unions have challenged individual hospital mandates enacted without collective bargaining; an appeals court upheld that argument in 2007 in a widely cited case involving Virginia Mason Hospital in Seattle.
Calhoun, the Illinois nurse, says she is unsure of her options.
"Most of the hospitals in my area are all implementing these policies," she said. "This conflict could end the career I have dedicated myself to."
I understand the reasons behind not getting a flu shot. I have my own reasons for not wanting one. However an employer-the police department, public school district, Jack in the box, even the hospital, can require certain things to have a job. Like Jack in the Box can require all employees, even those that flip fries, have a state issued driver's license. A hospital can offer a contract to any employee-be it a food service worker, lab tech, HR rep or even an RN with the stipulation that if you want to work there, every year you get booster shots for things like the measles, mumps, whopping cough and the flu vaccine. I've been around the block enough with employment law to know requiring employees to have such vaccines, especially in a health care setting such as a dr's office or hospital, is not illegal. The clinics and hospitals requiring their employees to get such vaccines are offering it to them free of charge. It is covered through their health insurance coverage they get from the hospital. If person gets said required flu shot at say safeway or walmart and they provide proof and receipt for said shot, the hospitals requiring this of them will reimburse the employee for the cost of the shot.Â
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Just like my current employer can require I wear a hat with the company logo on it during my shift, an employer can require certain or all employees to get the flu or any other shot. So either accept the fact you need to get one to keep your job or find work elsewhere.
Oh Boo Hoo Hoo!! Get your friggin'Â flu shot you cry babies!! If you don't like it, get another job.
A common issue with people who dont get a flu shot is that they dont know/understand WHAT flu (influenza) is. A large number of the general population believe the flu to be a gastro-intestinal disease with symptoms of upset stomach, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. THAT is NOT the flu. That is most likely a food-borne illness and potentially the Norovirus. There are no vaccines available to prevent this. Good personal hygiene i.e: WASH YOUR HANDS tis the best way to prevent this kind of infection
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Influenza (flu) is a RESPERITORY infection who's symptons include cough, fever, congestion, and overall weakness and fatigue. The vaccine available is very effective in preventing this or greatly reducing the effects of the symptoms.
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Bottom line:Â GET YOUR FLU SHOT AND WASH YOUR HANDS!!!
Alex Clayton said:" You have all kinds of freedom. You are free to not take the job where you do not wish to follow the rules. 11 hours ago"
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While this is a common argument, Thats kind of the main point here:  How far will the RULES go?. Today a flu shot, tomorrow we should all be forced to take injectable tracking chips? How far are you willing to allow a company to force said rules, even if they fly in the face of our own constitution. It used to be a rule that all black people had to sit at the back of a bus. Just because something is a rule, doesn't always make it right.
 @snow surfer But without that, smallpox would still kill us. And polio. Mandatory vaccinations of kids entering school killed those horrible diseases.
It should be mandatory for anyone working with vulnerable populations to get a flu shot. I find it irresponsible that our public schools do not require students and teachers to be vaccinated seasonally for the flu. More places need to require the flu shot, it is the best step in preventing the flu.Â
How about an update on our local hospitals....?????
So if I'm a patient maybe it would be best for me to wear a mask and gloves anytime someone comes into my room.
I work in Long Term Care and wouldnt THINK of not getting my flu shot. In fact in my facility I am always the first in line. Protect yourself, your residents/patients, and your families and get vaccinated.
 @EMDF9A Need more good care takers like you. Good to see the hospital weeding out the selfish trash and firing there sorry butts
Oh yeah... and I forgot. WASH YOU HANDS. WASH YOUR HANDS. WASH YOUR HANDS!!!!
 Of course! It's part of the universal precautions and WASH YOUR HANDS is MANDATORY!
Yes it is part of universal precautions that we in healthcare practice, but the majority of the people reading these postings have NO IDEA what Universal Precautions are. THEY are the ones we need to remind to WASH YOUR HANDS
I am a nurse working with many people who come into the ER for medical treatment. As a nurse, I can understand the concern those who are concerned with mandated immunizations about your rights. However, there is a code of ethics in the healthcare setting, and one code states "do no harm" to those we serve as healthcare workers. I do support this ethical code; but furthermore, many people who come into our healthcare settings for medical care have compromised immune systems. The questions begs to asked. What about the patient's right to receive healthcare from immunized healthcare workers? I personally believe these patients have the right to know that their healthcare provider cares enough to be properly immunized.
I have witnessed the gasping struggling infant, child and adult who has contracted the flu and requires immediate life support to keep them alive and hopefully enable them to regain their health. Yes, this is part of what we do in the hospitals across the country. However, I believe anyone who works in the community healthcare setting should be immunized. If not agreeable, there are other career avenues of work a person can pursue.
I also believe in and enjoy all the freedoms we have in this country, but I am very aware that we live in a very mobile international setting these days, and it's no secret that some communicable diseases are on the rise due in part
to non-immunized people being exposed to those who have contracted such diseases and the constant mutating organisms that become resistant to the vaccines and antibiotics. Immunizations are not the only answer to preventing the widespread flu epidemic, but it's a start. All of us should keep in mind to eat and live mindfully and respect the good health we have, and not abuse our bodies. Easier said than done, but it's a start. Ultimately, it is up to us to stay healthy so we can continue to provide the quality healthcare many expect and have the right to receive.
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I am surprized at your statement being you state you are a nurse. Just because you are immunized doesn't mean you can't carry the virus, that is a simple fact.
 @CrimsonkidÂ
It's a simple fact that not getting the vaccine makes you a much higher risk to the people who may die from it. It's a simple fact that you don't have to work in health care.
 @Crimsonkid Yeah, I thought the same thing. I think the bigger issue is people not properly washing their hands.
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If you're sick, stay home. If you're healthy, go to work and wash your hands regularly. I was reading an article elsewhere (can't remember where) that said that a majority of doctors and nurses don't wash their hands as much as they say/think - it was observed in random hospitals around the US.
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I'm not against the flu vaccine, but I'm not really for it either - maybe if I had a compromised immune system or once I get older. But for now I eat healthy, get enough sleep, wash my hands, and get acupuncture regularly. So far so good!
 @H.  @Crimsonkid What does getting acupuncture have anything to do with the flu?? Immunization is the best step in preventing the spread of the disease.Â
seems to me it should be like any other job, dont follow the rules-get fired.
I worked in the Grouph Health Optical Lab in Tukwilla  Wa in 2008  to 2009 The women in the office in that department were just gross they were sick and dident care!!! The manager once said just share the love by spreaing the grem,s!!!
Any of you who got Glasse,s from grouph health between november 2008    late january 2009 were at risk of getting the flu i hadent been as sick as i got when i worked there in many years...The worest part was the thought of any thing!!!! germ or any thing eles that had been in any of  there body,s ever being in me still makes me sick to my stomach Christy the sup and the manager i dont remember her name give a new meaning to the word dog,sÂ
YIKES I got fired because i dident want to with the manager!!!!!!    I should have sued  Grouph health and Pace Staffing   OH YEA MY NAME IS ERIC N  REMEMBER ME :  )
...
@SUN_RUNNER I'm guessing your duties there didn't include writing memos or press releases?
 @ALTemp LOL  My thoughts exactly!!!! Had trouble reading it....
The rate of staph, MRSA, and other infections infect and kill more patients than the transmission of the seasonal flu. However, since hospitals can't control washing of hands and changing of gloves by their staff from patient to patient, they instead try to control the worker by insisting on the flu shot. Why should the medical care worker be subject to a mandatory flu shot just to keep the job? Are TSA workers subject to body cavity checks as prerequisite to continued employment? Perhaps they are, but I think not. What other profession requires a mandatory experimental shot for employment?Â
Here is the problem - the Flu Shot does NOT prevent the flu nor does it prevent you from carrying it. It is intended to to get your body to create antibodies ahead of infection so if / when you do get infected your body will recognize it and fight it off before you get sick. You can still carry the virus and you can still pass it on to others.Â
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Treat every patient as if they are sick and wear the proper PPE and there wont be any issues of spreading the virus. The problem is nurses and doctors don't do that. I can't count the number of times I roll into an ER with a patient all geared up in gloves, goggles and a mask only to have the nurse come in and touch the patient without gloves, no mask or goggles.Â
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On top of that nurses and doctors rarely clean their stethoscopes. In my ambulance everything that touches a patient is cleaned after EVERY patient contact - sick or not.Â
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Proper hand washing, equipment cleaning and PPE use will prevent infection. It has nothing to do with a flu shot. Mandatory flu shots are a waste and are opening the facility up to legal liability. Hygiene does more to prevent infection than shots.Â
 @seattleemt let me see... flu shot.... your advice... flu shot.... your advice.... I kinda think I'm gonna go with the flu shot....
2/3 of the people that get the flu shot still end up with the flu. I've never been vaccinated for anything in my life. When I was a kid the family was Jehovah Witnesses so we never got vaccinated. The school use to hate us kids whenever vaccination time came around.lol
I can understand why people who have pneumonia problems or a diminished immune system might want to get flu shots. But there's no reason for perfectly healthy people to ever get flu shots.
@Blindman My wife is a JW and I convinced her into getting a flu shot...
 @Blindman you'd better pray to your god you don't catch measles as an adult....
Do you have a credible citation for that stat? I doubt it.
This comment has been deleted
 @newdragon  @Blindman And I've never HAD a flu shot, nor do I ever get the flu either.  Your point while well taken I don't believe has much validity.Â
"religious objections" Thanks God.
read up on vitamin D deficiency. Â Many scientific studies have indicated that Vitamin D3, in higher dosages, is by far more effective in preventing flu than a jab of dangerous soup. Â But then Big Pharma is hungry for profit.
@cheekygesturton O Palease...get real...
The shot is suppose to protect the receiver of the shot from the flu not other people around them; so what is the reasone for the requirement to take the shot. Since when is it anyone else's business what a person decides to do to them themselves; never mind, I forgot we no longer have the freedom of choice is this country.
 @CrimsonkidÂ
You have all kinds of freedom. You are free to not take the job where you do not wish to follow the rules.
 @Alex Clayton  @Crimsonkid Thats kinda the main issue Alex. How far will the RULES go. Today a flue shot, tomorrow we should all be forced to take injectable tracking chips? How far are you willing to allow a company to force said rules, even if they fly in the face of our own constitution. It used to be a rule that all black people had to sit at the back of a bus. Just because something is a rule, doesn't always make it right.Â
@Alex Clayton@Crimsonkid
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Its called an Analogy, not a direct correlation to the issue at hand.  Since I'm not educated, tell me then Alex, why do liberals always resort to name calling when attempting to debate an issue? I mean its a fair question right?Â
 @snow surfer  @Alex Clayton  @CrimsonkidÂ
How far are you willing to allow a company to force said rules, even if they fly in the face of our own constitution. It used to be a rule that all black people had to sit at the back of a bus. Just because something is a rule, doesn't always make it right.
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So in your "mind" health workers having to take a flu vac to work with people at risk is the same as blacks sitting in the back huh? Another proud public school grad. Sure glad I pay all these taxes to give people that kind of education.
 @Crimsonkid because a non-infected person cannot infect someone else.  Hospital employees work around people who are more likely to be mortally endangered by something like the flu.  A flu shot to protect the patients at a hospital is no more egregious a requirement for a hospital employee than making a football player take blood tests to ensure they arenât taking steroids.  Both are steps being taken to insure the safety of those they work with/around.
If a person chooses not to be vaccinated that is their choice, the place they work for is not responsible for their personal choices. A patient is not protected from the flu just because their nurse is vaccinated, a vaccinated person can still carry the virus and infect other people who aren't. So again, what is the real reason for requireing vaccination? One thing I do know, mother nature evolves with time, the virus vaccines are causing the viruses to evolve (mutate) into bigger, meaner, stronger bugs. What do you think it will be like if in a few more years you WILL die if you catch a common cold or flu?
 @Crimsonkid You're confusing vaccines with antibiotics. Totally different.Â
 @Crimsonkid you are, shall we say, severely science challenged...
Sorry, but no company should have the right to force its employees to inject themselves with anything.Â
@The206 get vaccinated or see ya!!!
 @The206 Sure they should. If it harms the welfare of their patients, then the workers should be required to take the vaccine. It's a medically approved procedure that the hospital itself administers to its patients.Â
 @The206 you mean like the US military?
 @The206 I think the question here is should companies have the right to fire employees for refusing to get vaccinated?
@Hountoof @The206 if it is a condition of employment - yes. if you do not like the rules, get another job.
I work at a hospital(non-medical related). I've never had a flu shot, and I've never had the flu. This is NOT a coincidence
 @Bubba Gunners How do you know it's not a coincidence? And there could be many reasons why you haven't contracted the flu. What you have is a single data point. It's not significant. You could just as easily say "I've never worn a seat belt, and I've never been in an automobile accident. This is not a coincidence."
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 @Bubba Gunners any chance you'd be willing to identify that hospital? That way the rest of us could avoid it...
 @tufa23  @Bubba Gunners Even with the flu shot, people can still transmit the flu. I'd be more worried about doctors/nurses/whomever not washing their hands enough.
 @Bubba Gunners Prove it.
 @Hountoof  @Bubba Gunners He canât.