Man carries gun openly into mall, gets verbal lashing
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VANCOUVER, Wash. – One man believes he's within his rights to openly carry a gun in a mall, but almost two months after the Clackamas Town Center Shooting, that belief triggers an immediate gut reaction for many.
But how do Derek Mendiola's rights stand up against a store's right to kick him out?
Mendiola says his weapon does draw glances in public, but he says he means no harm and meant no harm at the Sears in Vancouver Westfield Shopping Center on Wednesday when he stopped in to look at some tools.
He went in wearing his 9 mm Taurus pistol on his shoulder. He says he was surprised how an employee took issue with his gun and started verbally attacking him for having it.
"For somebody to harass me for just following my rights is a pretty big deal. It's just like telling me, I can't breathe air, I can’t live," he said.
He claims he would have been perfectly happy to leave if he'd simply been asked politely to do so.
He said he wears it outside his clothing because "if you have it tucked in, it's considered concealed and then if you don't have a concealed permit that is illegal."
Mall general manager Paige Moreau said she was aware of the incident. She said the mall's code of conduct prohibits firearms in the mall. But she couldn't confirm whether that rule was posted anywhere inside the mall. KATU News did not observe any signs posted Thursday prohibiting firearms and couldn’t find a notice posted on the mall's website.
Washington's open carry law allows gun owners to legally carry their weapons in plain sight. But Moreau said the mall is private property, so it's allowed to make these rules.
Washington gun rights expert and author, Dave Workman, says she's right. But a simple sign or two would help.
"It is their private property," he said. "But still it wasn't posted off limits to firearms and so he really didn't violate any law by going in there open-carrying a firearm."
Later in the day Mendiola said now that he knows it’s against the mall’s rules to bring a firearm on the premises, he’ll respect that and leave his gun at home.
Still, he says it would help a lot if they'd post a notice somewhere.
He says he’s applied for a concealed weapons permit, but mall rules don't make an exception for concealed weapons permits. So even if someone has one, and is carrying, the mall can legally ask the person to leave and have them arrested for criminal trespass if they refuse.
The law is essentially the same in both Oregon and Washington and businesses in both states have the right to set the rules for how they manage their private property.
We learned about this story through a news tip. If you have a story you'd like us to cover, email us at newstips@katu.com.
The clerk should have reported it to his supervisor rather than verbally berate the gentleman. Its not a regular employees job description to cite company policy and ask people to leave the store. That is what a manager/supervisor is responsible for.Â
Granted its an open carry state but most people will wear a holster on the belt and not a shoulder holster. Courtesy would have a person wear coat over that shoulder holster as most others are jittery even hearing the word "gun".
See this is where I run into a problem with the right to carry law. A recent article talked about a guy who set his gun down in a movie theater because it was uncomfortable and then forgot about it. It was loaded with the safety off and high schoolers found it. Then there was an accidental shooting the other day where a wife shot her husband when her gun fell out of her pocket hit the floor and fired. I don't think there will ever be a time when anyone will be perfectly comfortable with someone strolling around with a gun at their side. It's just the way things are.
 @cm257n7 I doubt the gun fired when it hit the floor. More likely, she felt it falling and instinctively grabbed for it, pulling the trigger in the process. Safest thing to do when a gun falls, is let it hit the floor.
 @Bornhere It was reported as firing when it hit the floor.
Doesn't matter how it got discharged. It got discharged without control.
". He says he was surprised how an employee took issue with his gun and started verbally attacking him for having it."
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no he wasn't. he went in there to make a point. He looks stupid for it.
 @T H I S So true. I can't think of any rational reason to explain why someone would openly carry a firearm into a public place if they are not military or law enforcement authorized to do so. I have never been law enforcement, but I was in the Marine Corps. We often carried our weapons without ammunition. The enemy didn't know that, so it was the same as if we were locked and loaded. You wouldn't want to guess and be wrong??? If I see a fellow carrying a gun, especially in a place where it is obviously inappropriate...I am gonna treat him like he has intention to hurt. I don't care how old you are, where you've been, if you openly carry a weapon into the same space my family is in...I am leaving that space. There is no good that can come from it. I side with the employee. He showed great strength. The guy carrying the gun showed massive tendencies toward lack of understanding of CIVILITY.
@ATGM @T H I S "Rational reason?" How about all the mall and theater shootings lately? Not like the malls are doing a very good job of security by themselves -- usually they have some scrawny unarmed rent-a-cop for security.
 @T H I S Making a point (WITHOUT VIOLENCE) is exactly what we need more of. People probably thought that the guys throwing that tee off of that ship were just "making a point" also. And they were! Good thing too...
 @T H I S Conjecture.
Like telling you that you can't breathe air? Seriously? We don't need more people like Mr. Mendiola, we need more people with common sense
 @Reality Carrying a gun into a store....LMAO. Good way not to see your next birthday.
 @Reality Common sense would be this: The clerk doesn't like having the gun in the shop. So, how about the clerk politely asking the person to leave, rather than berating him? I am sure he would have politely complied, had he been given the opportunity.
We need more people like Mr. Mendiola to do things like this. Â It makes people aware of the rules and laws. Â Awareness and education regarding guns will make this country a better, safer place...not gun control for law-abiding citizens.
He doesn't need to go to Sears to look at tools, all he needs to do is look in the mirror at home. He has to be the biggest tool I've seen in a awhile.Â
@ALTemp Post a picture and let's talk about judging people based on what they look like.
@dontneedheels Has nothing to do with what he looks like......has to do with being stupid....which would appear to be something you are familiar with.
 @Bornhere Wow, that's what you got from what was said? Impressive. And......why do you assume it is a him?Â
 @ALTemp Care to expand upon your grounds for calling him stupid? You throw the term around quite a bit without backing it up with any reasonable argument.
i would prefer to see who has a gun. if the gun is safely holstered.
While I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and gun rights this will not end well. Calif used to have open carry and folks 'exercised' their rights. Then some Nancy-boy politician decided to do something about it. Now it's illegal. I'll let y'all make your own decisions but sometimes better to use your head first....
 @Barney Rubble Yes, it was literally Nancy's boy. As the governor of California, Ronald Reagan signed the Mulford Act prohibiting public open carry.
Probably cuz he was packin' a Taurus... They probably wouldn't have thrown him out if it was a S&W!
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Seriously, why do some folks do things just to push people's buttons and see what kind of reaction they get? Carry concealed if you are going to carry. No point in scaring little kids, or grown-ups who just act like little kids...
 @Ed Twyst He pushed nobody's button. All he did was walk into a shop. The clerk over-reacted.
 @Ed Twyst I take it you've never visited a southern state.
very interesting posts. Along with banning guns we need to ban motor vehicles. Far more people are killed by motor vehicles than with guns.
Right or wrong kid | I carry CONSEALED most everywhere, just because it is legal to carry in plain sight you really should use better sense. People are very sensitive about this and man something like this is like throwing a match is a gas filled room...  BAD FORM and VERY STUPID | So as a CWP carrier I say this.. 'thank you for adding yet more fuel to the fire!' ... something that for sure does not need more attention you just gave it... BRILLIANT!
 @Freespeech I'd feel a bit better about you having a hidden gun if you could spell "concealed "
Regardless of the mall rules, that clerk at Sears didn't have any right blasting away at this guy. I have a suspicion that if this guy was white, he wouldn't have gotten the tongue lashing. Just guessing...
@Elaine2 All of the latest shootings have been caucasians...why would you even say that? So dumb...
@as a matter of fact That guy hiding in the mountains of California after shooting three people doesn't look remotely caucasian to me... why are you two bringing race into this at all?
 @Elaine2 Isn't free speech also a fundamental right?
 @hsk  @Elaine2 Free speech as covered by the First Amendment states that the government cannot infringe on your right to free speech. Private party to private party communication isn't guaranteed to be without repercussions.
 @hsk  @Elaine2 Free speech (right to express opinion/feelings/etc) is different than verbal abuse, which is actually assault.
Uptight anchorman "Obvious question is, why doesn't he have a concealed permit?"
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Why on Earth would that be the 'obvious' question?
@Rockberry The article says he has applied for one. It isn't like a drivers' license, you don't walk out with it. Until you receive it, you can only carry open or leave it at home.
 @dontneedheels Untrue as when I applied for mine a few years ago I had it in my hand within twenty minutes of signing all the appropriate paperwork. Of course it may be different in each county on how they issue the conceal permits to citizens.
 @Rockberry I wonder is he knows that he can't have it loaded in the car without one.
 @Rockberry Rhetoric that starts speculation that starts conversation which starts finger pointing!!
95% of these knuckleheads who purchase weapons and are getting permits don't have a clue how to use them, or when to use them. Just because you have a gun does not give you the right to kill. You can still go to prison for shooting someone with a legal permit. And prison is no fun without a gun.
 @Hehateme Cite your statistical evidence or stop arbitrarily spouting numbers to fluff up your point.
 @Hehateme Its not even close to that, you only hear about the knuckleheads, that's why it seems that high.
@Hehateme 95% of the people who purchase weapons and are getting permits do have a clue on how to use them, or when to use them.
The problem I have is that 5% that don't. The number is increasing. The ones who buy guns then leave them out in the open, under car seats, in glove boxes etc.
 @Hehateme "Just because you have a gun does not give you the right to kill"
Interestingly I've never heard a gun owner claim this right. Where did you get that? Can you post a reference to where this is proven?
 @SeattleJoe Here's another knucklehead for you. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57554897-504083/florida-teen-shot-to-death-by-man-after-dispute-over-loud-music-police-say/
 @Hehateme PS  And should you find a link, see if you can find any NRA official, law abiding gun owner, SAF member, etc that supports these creeps. While you are at it why don't you see how many of them resoundingly condemn these jerkwads. Then get back to us.
 @Hehateme OK, you've found a link to a real jerkwad who killed some kid. Now, back to the topic at hand. Any links to someone who thinks they have the right to kill simply because they have a gun?Â
 @SeattleJoe  @Hehateme Sure. George Zimmerman!
 @Hehateme Nice try. Mr Zimmerman has never claimed that in any way. Try again.
 @Hehateme "95%"?