Another survivalist development in Idaho?
ST. MARIES, Idaho (AP) - A group of survivalists wants to build a giant walled fortress in the woods of the Idaho Panhandle, a medieval-style city where residents would be required to own weapons and stand ready to defend the compound if society collapses.
The proposal is called the Citadel and has created a buzz among folks in this remote logging town 70 miles southeast of Spokane, Wash. The project would more than double the population of Benewah County, home to 9,000 souls.
Locals have many questions, but organizers so far are pointing only to a website billing the Citadel as "A Community of Liberty."
"There is no leader," Christian Kerodin, a convicted felon who is a promoter of the project, wrote in a brief email to The Associated Press. "There is a significant group of equals involved ... each bringing their own professional skills and life experiences to the group.
"It is very much a 'grass-roots' endeavor,'" Kerodin wrote, declining to provide any additional details.
Such communities are hardly new, especially in northern Idaho, which has long been a magnet for those looking to shun mainstream society because of its isolation, wide-open spaces and lack of racial diversity. For three decades, the Aryan Nations operated a compound about an hour north of here before the group went bankrupt and the land was sold.
Then came another community known as "Almost Heaven," founded in 1994 by Green Beret-turned-"patriot" movement leader Bo Gritz for those wanting a refuge from urban ills and Y2K concerns. That project crumbled when large numbers of buyers failed to move to the development, located 100 miles to the south.
The number of so-called patriot groups has grown since President Barack Obama was first elected, and the renewed debate over gun control is further deepening resentment of the federal government among such factions, said Mark Potok, a spokesman for the Southern Poverty Law Center. The SPLC tracks such groups.
Nevertheless, Potok noted, plans for these sorts of communities rarely come to fruition.
"The people behind the Citadel are like 12-year-old boys talking about the tree house, or the secret underground city, they're going to build some day," he said.
The website shows drawings of a stone fortress with room inside for up to 7,000 families. The compound would include houses, schools, a hotel and a firearms factory and museum. The gun factory, the website said, would manufacture semi-automatic pistols and AR-15 rifles - which would be illegal if Congress reinstated the 1994 ban on assault weapons.
Applicants must pay a $208 fee, and the website claims several hundred people already have applied to live in the Citadel.
The site also warns that not all would be comfortable at the development:
"Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles."
No construction has begun. Kerodin filed papers with the Idaho Secretary of State in November for a company called Citadel Land Development. III Arms LLC, which is the name of the proposed firearms company, also has purchased 20 acres of land in Benewah County, the county auditor said.
The Citadel website said those 20 acres would serve as an administrative site from which to build the entire 2,000- to 3,000-acre compound.
Kerodin, who declined requests for a telephone interview, was convicted in 2004 of federal extortion charges and illegal possession of a firearm in a case in which he posed as a counterterrorism expert and attempted to coerce shopping mall owners in the Washington, D.C., area to hire him to improve security, according to court documents. He served 30 months in federal prison.
While the conviction makes it illegal for Kerodin to possess a firearm, residents of the Citadel would be required to own guns and to pledge to train together and use them if the compound were attacked. Residents would also be required to stock enough food and water to last a year.
In St. Maries, a logging community of 2,600 people that is the Benewah County seat, townspeople had plenty of questions about the proposed development.
"This is Podunk, Idaho," said resident Wanda Wemhoff. "What are they defending themselves against?"
Gary Davis, owner of a quilt shop, worried about the type of people who would be drawn to such a community. "Nobody benefits from having a closed society move into their midst," he said.
But County Commissioner Bud McCall was less concerned, calling the Citadel little more than a "pie in the sky thing." ''As far as I know," he said, "it hasn't gone anywhere."
The proposal is called the Citadel and has created a buzz among folks in this remote logging town 70 miles southeast of Spokane, Wash. The project would more than double the population of Benewah County, home to 9,000 souls.
Locals have many questions, but organizers so far are pointing only to a website billing the Citadel as "A Community of Liberty."
"There is no leader," Christian Kerodin, a convicted felon who is a promoter of the project, wrote in a brief email to The Associated Press. "There is a significant group of equals involved ... each bringing their own professional skills and life experiences to the group.
"It is very much a 'grass-roots' endeavor,'" Kerodin wrote, declining to provide any additional details.
Such communities are hardly new, especially in northern Idaho, which has long been a magnet for those looking to shun mainstream society because of its isolation, wide-open spaces and lack of racial diversity. For three decades, the Aryan Nations operated a compound about an hour north of here before the group went bankrupt and the land was sold.
Then came another community known as "Almost Heaven," founded in 1994 by Green Beret-turned-"patriot" movement leader Bo Gritz for those wanting a refuge from urban ills and Y2K concerns. That project crumbled when large numbers of buyers failed to move to the development, located 100 miles to the south.
The number of so-called patriot groups has grown since President Barack Obama was first elected, and the renewed debate over gun control is further deepening resentment of the federal government among such factions, said Mark Potok, a spokesman for the Southern Poverty Law Center. The SPLC tracks such groups.
Nevertheless, Potok noted, plans for these sorts of communities rarely come to fruition.
"The people behind the Citadel are like 12-year-old boys talking about the tree house, or the secret underground city, they're going to build some day," he said.
The website shows drawings of a stone fortress with room inside for up to 7,000 families. The compound would include houses, schools, a hotel and a firearms factory and museum. The gun factory, the website said, would manufacture semi-automatic pistols and AR-15 rifles - which would be illegal if Congress reinstated the 1994 ban on assault weapons.
Applicants must pay a $208 fee, and the website claims several hundred people already have applied to live in the Citadel.
The site also warns that not all would be comfortable at the development:
"Marxists, Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and preferred lifestyles."
No construction has begun. Kerodin filed papers with the Idaho Secretary of State in November for a company called Citadel Land Development. III Arms LLC, which is the name of the proposed firearms company, also has purchased 20 acres of land in Benewah County, the county auditor said.
The Citadel website said those 20 acres would serve as an administrative site from which to build the entire 2,000- to 3,000-acre compound.
Kerodin, who declined requests for a telephone interview, was convicted in 2004 of federal extortion charges and illegal possession of a firearm in a case in which he posed as a counterterrorism expert and attempted to coerce shopping mall owners in the Washington, D.C., area to hire him to improve security, according to court documents. He served 30 months in federal prison.
While the conviction makes it illegal for Kerodin to possess a firearm, residents of the Citadel would be required to own guns and to pledge to train together and use them if the compound were attacked. Residents would also be required to stock enough food and water to last a year.
In St. Maries, a logging community of 2,600 people that is the Benewah County seat, townspeople had plenty of questions about the proposed development.
"This is Podunk, Idaho," said resident Wanda Wemhoff. "What are they defending themselves against?"
Gary Davis, owner of a quilt shop, worried about the type of people who would be drawn to such a community. "Nobody benefits from having a closed society move into their midst," he said.
But County Commissioner Bud McCall was less concerned, calling the Citadel little more than a "pie in the sky thing." ''As far as I know," he said, "it hasn't gone anywhere."
I can see a new reality show emerging on TLC following Honey Boo Boo.
I like having all of the nuts in one place. Easier to manage.
Sounds like a good idea. Just like a small town where like minded folks can live together in peace and harmony. It would be a great social experiment. As long as people are free to come and go I see nothing wrong with this. In fact, I would say it is the American way.
Not my idea of the American dream but I hope they enjoy it. I will predict that personal liberty will not survive in a place like that.
Why is it that people who call themselves patriots are always wanting to start their own country? They want guns to protect themselves from the government but insist on arming the military to the hilt. They hate socialism but they are building a small area that people have to work together to live in. It's like Animal Farm with conservatives.
Why does my mouth get the sour taste of grape juice when I read this article?
Talk about crazy wacko,s in Idaho ,,,,, what about J Z KNIGHT and her little compound in Lacey. Careful where you throw stones ,, they may land in your back yard.
this is old news. *yawn*
most every group is infiltrated/co-opted by fed agents, who often do outrageous provocation.
I am very impressed with their overall concept and presentation. God Bless America. http://www.iiicitadel.com
Â
 @BuddyHolly Looking at those plans, I like how the first thing that pops out is "PATRIOTISM." I imagine these folks are similar to the ones in Crawford, TX who painted a horse and marched through town when Cindy Sheehan was there protesting the war in Iraq after her son was killed. In case you're not aware, they belittled her for questioning the war (even after losing a son in it) and referred to themselves being "patriots" in numerous sentences.Â
@BuddyHolly I hope these inbred tools fail. Let them waste their money. They're already in the middle of nowhere. If they decide to go nuts in the woods, fine, provided they do it on their own land and don't break any laws. Making a tree fort in the woods doesn't equate to leaving the country.
People are getting way too extreme and paranoid these days.....they don't trust their Gov't ?
If they don't,door is wide open...!
Â
 @scychan our culture as a whole has rotted out. God is denounced as a fairy tale, homosexuality is promoted as a legitimate union, the 2nd amendment is under attack......a young man on psychotic medications walks into a movie theater and brutally murders 12 of before surrendering. Another young man on psychotic medications walks into a classroom of 1st graders and brutally murders 20 of them and 6 adult school staff before blowing his own brains out. There are plenty of reasons to believe our once great nation is turning into garbage. That these people want to try and band together to get the hell away from the rest of us is refreshing. But the real beauty is that we all still have the right to say what we feel.
@Rick4001CS @scychan Oh here we go. Not sure my words are going to get through your tinfoil anti-mind control hat, but I'll try anyway. Your god is perfectly safe. You are free to worship as you wish. Others may not and do not believe as you do, but you are free to continue to worship as you choose. You do not have the right to expect anyone else to be forced into your line of belief anymore than anyone else has the right to push you into theirs.
Â
Still with me so far? I hope so.
Â
Same sex unions are every bit as valid as mixed sex unions. Our state has finally bit the proverbial bullet and decided that everyone has a right to marriage under the state. Your god may and can disagree, but your god, nor any one else's is in charge of the state or recognized as THE one and only religious belief. Again, not saying your god isn't important. They can be as important to you as you wish, but again you can't force that belief on everyone else you share the state with.
Â
The 2nd amendment isn't under attack as you put it, it's being updated to reflect current society. As it should. According to the second amendment, an armed militia is considered to be the country's armed forces. Last time I checked, we have a pretty decent group of men and women in uniform who are not just able, but willing to lay their lives on the line for us so we can have a discussion about anything we like. You wanna play with assault rifles? Join up. Other than that, I don't think assault or assault style weapons need to be available to the public. I feel that guns should be tracked all the time, not just with the initial sale. I think firearm owners should be required to have insurance and an adequate gun safe to keep them in. I also feel that gun owners should go through annual safety training, annual licensing, and annual mental health exams. But again, that's just me and it makes sense. Far more sense than reverting to the wild wild west time with everybody packing and shootouts will become far more common. Again, that's just me.
Â
Now, to me, our nation is great. It's not falling apart because gay people can get married or that there is discussion about reducing the ammount and kind of firearms that are available to the public or what hoops and hurdles people have to go through to get them. Now if you'd have said that things are bad because 5 year old children get a complimentary colonoscopy if they want to fly to disnyland or see granny and grampa, I'd be with you. That's an erosion of our civil rights. Saying you can have a single action rifle provided you pass the background and mental health checks, is not. That's keeping up with the times as you don't need a howitzer to go looking for some deer to put on the table for dinner. As far as a group of people, including convicted felons going off into the woods in an attempt at shedding themselves of modern society is at the very least concerning. Think of what happened at the collapse of the Roman empire. People went from living in large cities, with universities, hot and cold running water, and heated floors, to living in a shack in small groups, peeing in a pot and tossing it out the window. That is anything BUT a step up.
 @Beam_Me_Up You are correct, the founding documents were not intended to be changed. They were intended to protect the citizens from tyranny. They would offer zero protection from tyranny if they could be amended.Â
 @Beam_Me_Up Well said my friend ,,,
 @Beam_Me_Up  @what?  @Rick4001CS  @scychan Thank you.Â
 @what?  @Rick4001CS  @scychanÂ
Â
Your entire bit about the 2nd Amendment is wrong. There is nothing about "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" that needs to be updated.
Â
It has nothing to do with hunting. It has nothing to do with muskets. There were fully automatic weapons in use during that era. Colonists stole them from the British and used them. It was also a somewhat regular occurrence to own cannons and ships to mount them on. Ever heard of a privateer? Private citizens with their own fleet of gunships. Spooky, eh?
Â
My right to have an entire cabinet full of guns, boxes of ammunition and plenty of high capacity magazines do not end where your fragile feelings begin.
Â
Also, does it make your bum pucker knowing that if I had a spare $60,000, I could legally purchase a tank?
Â
 @what?  @Rick4001CS  @scychan There is no tying of the right to bear arms in the 2nd amendment to a standing professional army. There is no concept of modernization of any of our Bill of Rights in the Bill of Rights. This is a false perception from people that want to change amendments. There has never been an amendment changed to remove rights from Americans that has not been nullified.
Â
The government is actively limiting our rights in direct opposition to the amendments through bills that have not been voted on. You just have to look at the Patriot Act to see that. We no longer get a speedy trial, we no longer have rights to consul, we no longer have the concept of private property that is protected unless a court order warrants against said property. All the government needs to do is use a keyword and they can lock us up permanently without consul and without a trial.
Â
Obama has allowed American citizens to be killed without a trial and he has delegated this decision to people below him that are not even elected officials. Is this the act of a responsible nation?Â
Â
You talk of the fall of the Roman empire but you fail to see the similarities to what America is going through right now. America is no longer the manufacturing and economic power house in the world. There are 2 major classes in America, the rich and the poor. The middle class is quickly disappearing with most falling into the poor side.
Â
America is not run by common citizens, it is ran by the wealthy. Look at the average wealth of the Senate and Congressional members. The politicians can no longer experience what the common citizens feel.
Â
We have a tremendous budget to run America but very little of it can be cut because of the unemployment it would cause. Any cuts to the military would cause huge negative affects to our working class. No standing politician is going to approve huge cuts in fear of not getting reelected due to the increase of the unemployed in their locales.
Â
Gun owners are not the problems the liberal anti gun people want to make them out to be. We are not the villains of this society. It is a much bigger problem that liberals do not want to talk about because it means they have to participate in the conversation.
Â
The last thing that I see happening from the liberal people is them addressing violence in this society. They can not separate guns from violence. If you want to talk about violence look up Gary Ridgway or Ted Bundy. They each killed more people then Sandy Hook yet they did not use guns. Do you think their victims families cared more about the tool that was used to kill them or the fact that they were killed in a violent brutal way? If you just take away guns in the name of ending senseless killings from violence what will you then say to the victims families of the future Ted Bundys and Gary Ridgways when you had a chance to make a real difference by eliminating violence? If you remove violence there will be no more killings like Sandy Hook but if you just remove the guns there will be many more people dying of violent brutal ways. But keep sitting on your easy chair, and maybe even go to a rally for anti gun or LGBT rights or letting illegal immigrants get more money from the state all the while ignoring violence and we will see just how far America falls.Â
 @scychan Because the government don't trust you.
@BuddyHolly @scychan So leave. Start your own little gem of a country elsewhere.
 @what?  @BuddyHolly  @scychan don't have far to go if you live close to a reservation or belong to a tribe "without land". The government will give you some and set you up. Then you can build a casino.
Somehow all the paranoid nutjobs end up in Idaho.
 @Vince That is because, generally speaking, as long as you are not hurting anyone, the government leaves you alone in ID. Tough concept for a lot of folks to grasp, I know. Just leaving folks alone, to succeed or fail on their own merits, is something a lot of people just don't want to do. SO, when someone goes away, just to be left alone, people call them paranoid nut-jobs and want to do an intervention with them, with is just exactly the thing they are trying to escape from!
@RN1 @Vince However, convicted felons are not allowed to own or be around firearms.
Felons can have their rights restored, and secondly, they cannot own or possess firearms, but that does mean than cannot be around them at all (just as long as someone else is owning / possessing / controlling them). Gets a little dicey, legally speaking, when the spouse of a prohibited person owns a gun, but it can at least theoretically (to the best of my knowledge) be done legally. But as far as the guy next door owning one, no problem for a felon three doors down.
I bet some government agency has already put an undercover agent as a perspective resident.Â
 @Beam_Me_Up "AN" undercover agent? More than likely, at this point, it's a majority of them. Because the FBI, BATFE, ICE, CIA, DEA, DIA, HHS, and every other alphabet agency up to an including the CDC will want their own inside guy/gal in the place. So, until there are more than about 500 "families" there, it's going to be a government-employee-majority commune :-)
Sent in my registration. Hope they accept me (fingers crossed). Oh ya, did I mentioned I am an Asian Gay male?
 @tek tonken you will "fit right in"
lol Freudian slip?
Wouldn't it just be easier for them to keep playing video games and/or write some really crappy science fiction? Making all these ridiculous fantasies into something real all just sounds like such a hassle. (Oh, and it's completely terrifying, by the way.)
 @C T Tell me its a ridiculous fantasy that the President of the United States has determined that he can order the execution of US citizens on the vague assessment they are terrorists but do not have to actively be involved in terrorism. He decided he can do this without warrants or due process. He decided he can do this not only without the judicial or legislative branches of the government being involved but that they do not have any say in it whatsoever.
Another guns, god, fringe  survivalist in Idaho.  oh dear.  say it ain't so.
Â
I mean like I am totally shocked.
" "There is no leader," Christian Kerodin, a convicted felon who is a promoter of the project..." A felon who wants to start a "Citadel" where everyone will be armed. I wonder how many would be interested in such a thing? Sounds like trouble brewing, perhaps time to hide the Kool-Aid in this area.
 @aintno1special There is respect for felons and people who are not felons. Its not a lets hate everyone that is not like ME state, like Washington.Â
 @Just my say I have no disrespect for anyone who has served their time and changed their lives. But that doesn't mean I am ready to accept armed felons...they have already shown the propensity to not follow the law, so I don't feel comfortable with them bearing arms around me.Â
@Just my say @aintno1special Nope, it is a let's hate everyone who is not like me (white) state. Consider this from the article:
Â
"Such communities are hardly new, especially in northern Idaho, which has long been a magnet for those looking to shun mainstream society because of its isolation, wide-open spaces and lack of racial diversity. For three decades, the Aryan Nations operated a compound about an hour north of here before the group went bankrupt and the land was sold."
 @what?  @Just  @aintno1special The Citadel is not a white supremest group, just because they used the aryan nation as an example does not mean they are the same type of people.
 @aintno1special hope it's not going wako