Attorney lobbying to bring armed volunteers to Federal Way schools
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FEDERAL WAY, Wash. -- Mark Knapp wants something radical in Federal Way schools. Not a new textbook or controversial class -- just regular citizens armed with guns.
"It's unrealistic that just one thing is going to solve school violence," Knapp said.
Knapp is a firearms attorney who believes he can save the district money while protecting schools with armed volunteers patrolling campuses.
"Having people that are highly-trained, that are highly-proficient, that passed proficiency and background testing," he said.
Grandfather Bonifacao Porganan wouldn't mind a little more armed security for schools. He watched his grandson Issac and friends play basketball and said Knapp's plan has merit because of all the recent violence at schools. Something must be done.
"That's why it's a good idea," he said.
Knapp admits he faces an uphill battle to woo the district and Federal Way police.
"We're going to have to do some lobbying," he said.
Knapp said part of his pitch will be to compare the citizens to sky marshals. An active shooter would know about the program, but wouldn't know which plain-clothed person was armed.
But there's at least one huge obstacle -- everyday people carrying guns simply aren't allowed in schools.
But Knapp believes the law allows districts to effectively "deputize" citizens and let guns in.
"I don't really like the word volunteers, because it gives the idea that somebody is coming in off the street and saying, I've got a concealed pistol license," Knapp said.
Both Federal Way police and the school district had mixed reaction.
Police said in a statement: "The Federal Way Police Department's perspective on the merit and efficacy of armed volunteers in the Federal Way School District is that this is not something we have ever considered."
The district is already dismissing the idea, however, saying in part: "We are holding discussions with safety and security professionals, including the Federal Way Police Department, in order to ensure that our safety measures reflect the latest thinking and best practices in school safety -- which does not include armed volunteers."
Knapp is undeterred. He plans to meet with supporters Tuesday night and present a proposal to the district at a later date.
"It's unrealistic that just one thing is going to solve school violence," Knapp said.
Knapp is a firearms attorney who believes he can save the district money while protecting schools with armed volunteers patrolling campuses.
"Having people that are highly-trained, that are highly-proficient, that passed proficiency and background testing," he said.
Grandfather Bonifacao Porganan wouldn't mind a little more armed security for schools. He watched his grandson Issac and friends play basketball and said Knapp's plan has merit because of all the recent violence at schools. Something must be done.
"That's why it's a good idea," he said.
Knapp admits he faces an uphill battle to woo the district and Federal Way police.
"We're going to have to do some lobbying," he said.
Knapp said part of his pitch will be to compare the citizens to sky marshals. An active shooter would know about the program, but wouldn't know which plain-clothed person was armed.
But there's at least one huge obstacle -- everyday people carrying guns simply aren't allowed in schools.
But Knapp believes the law allows districts to effectively "deputize" citizens and let guns in.
"I don't really like the word volunteers, because it gives the idea that somebody is coming in off the street and saying, I've got a concealed pistol license," Knapp said.
Both Federal Way police and the school district had mixed reaction.
Police said in a statement: "The Federal Way Police Department's perspective on the merit and efficacy of armed volunteers in the Federal Way School District is that this is not something we have ever considered."
The district is already dismissing the idea, however, saying in part: "We are holding discussions with safety and security professionals, including the Federal Way Police Department, in order to ensure that our safety measures reflect the latest thinking and best practices in school safety -- which does not include armed volunteers."
Knapp is undeterred. He plans to meet with supporters Tuesday night and present a proposal to the district at a later date.
Another problem with this approach that people don't seem to consider is that it does nothing to prevent tragedies from happening. It simply provides some potential safeguard against it if it does. (And if you want to argue that armed guards are a deterrent, then you'll have to explain why it has still happened with armed guards. It isn't enough to say it hasn't happened other places where there are armed guards, because it also hasn't happened 99.999999% of schools where there ISN'T armed guards, so there is no evidence to support that argument). In other words, it is a worst case scenario fix. Why are we being reactive instead of proactive? Why are we submitting to the fact that these people are simply going to lose it instead of trying to figure out the mental issues behind this and make mental health a more important topic and health concern in our society? All we focus on is how to be more afraid of each other instead of trying to learn and communicate with each other. Is it much of a solution? No, not really, but it's a jumping off point. It's at least focused in the right direction. Armed guards in schools doesn't make anyone safer, and it doesn't prevent anyone from doing what they're already going to do. Do you really think it would be difficult for an armed shooter to approach the school unnoticed and take the guards by surprise before they can act? Just having someone stand there with a gun is no assurance of anything, other than that there's a guy with a gun on a school campus!
@jowsuf Well, it seems to work just fine in Israel.  Just sayin'.
@jlynnhood Israel begs to differ.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/israelis-shoot-nra-claim-article-1.1226401
@jlynnhood Actually, I'm the one who shouldn't be surprised: http://digitaljournal.com/article/325389
@jlynnhood Wait, you think that the more people that watch a news site, the more reliable the source is? Are you kidding me? It is so well known how Fox News is a terrible source of accurate reporting that it is literally common knowledge. I mean, are you really kidding me? Are you not aware of this??Â
Look at what comes up under just the simple google search "worst news channel"
https://www.google.com/search?q=worst+news+chanel&rlz=1C1DVCB_enUS345US358&oq=worst+news+chanel&aqs=chrome.0.57j0j62l2.7324&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1DVCB_enUS345US358&spell=1&q=worst+news+channel&sa=X&ei=VJglUeCYOajNiwKbh4HYBg&ved=0CDIQvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42661473,d.cGE&fp=325fb61caa56eea6&biw=1438&bih=815
@jowsuf: yeah, silly me. Fox news is only the most viewed cable news source. How stupid of me!  No one ever said having an armed guard is an assurance of anythng, it's a detterent.Â
"It isn't enough to say it hasn't happened other places where there are armed guards, because it also hasn't happened 99.999999% of schools where there ISN'T armed guards, so there is no evidence to support that argument"...so should we wait until it happens, again. How do you know that it DIDN'T happen because there was an armed guard? Â
@jowsuf, and using the New York Daily News is a reliable source. Uhh, yeah. Right. Or rather left, far, far left.
@jlynnhood Saying "Fox News said" is like saying "my cousin Earl said." Your article cites quotes from the CEO of an officer training business, and my article cites statements from a department head of the Public Security Ministry, spokesman for the Israeli foreign ministry, and an Israeli university professor.Â
Come on, citing a Fox News article? You should know better.Â
Or this....http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/30/armed-teachers-guards-key-to-school-security-in-israel/
As I've said the paranoid types can home school their kids and the problem is solved. I'll even help with the curriculum:
Building a Bomb shelter 101.
Home canning and MRE's it's what's for supper.
Ballistics and reloading.
Dooms day prepping. Why we aren't like "them".
Building a bug out bag
Gun grabber evacuation planning.
The art of camo.
Zombie identification.
they have you fearing for your lives,, pull your heads out of your rectum!Â
@Stoney Coyote Yep, thats pretty much it. Fear fear fear, hate hate hate. The laws banning guns on school property are clearly unconstitutional.
actung!! sheriff Joe!
@Â Alexandra Shepiro, I will pose the same question to you that I did to KOMO_Sapiens;Â Â There are schools across our nation that have armed security officers. Can you give even one example of a wild shootout with the security officer and a nutjob with a gun in which a student was hit by the security officer? Because that is the crux of your argument, that the children would be less safe for having armed security. You're being paranoid.Â
@SargeMcCÂ Can you give me one example where a clown riding a unicycle while juggling greater than four balls ended up burning down a house full of children at a birthday party? Asinine argument.
@Seattleisaslew, My question is simple. Show how having an armed guard made a school less safe. Alexandria and KOMO are saying the armed guards would wind up shooting a child. Show me an example where that has happened.
@Seattleisaslew @SargeMcC So what you're saying is, next time there is a school shooting, don't send in the cops to put the shooter because an unintended target might get hit?  Just let the shooter walk around and kill innocents until he has had his fill?  Great idea!
But..How do you know, that it won't happen???? Are you willing to take that risk????
@SargeMcC Sarge...Aghem..I have not said that Guards would wind up shooting a child. have i. I said it's a Disaster waiting to Happen. Please So not put words in my mouth!
@SargeMcC Show how it made it more safe. Take the number of schools k-12 nationwide. Now the number that had a mass shootout. Now the number that had an armed guard and a mass shootout. Now the number where the armed guard did any good. Probably something like .00000001%. Now factor in the number of bullets flying with and without an armed guard. Are the odds increased of a bullet hitting an unintended target? Absolutely. Friendly fire happens all of the time with highly trained military. You and you're ilk argue because it hasn't happened it's not going to happen. Glad you don't have an important job such as a NASA engineer.
Any attorney why would propose this should be Dis-Barred! It's Idiotic, and a Disaster Waiting to happen!
We DO NOT need Guns in schools.
If students aren't allowed to bring toy Guns to school, then Adults shouldn't be able to do also!
We have Zero Tolerance for a reason! That means Adults and Children Alike!
@Alexandra Shepiro who has zero tolerance? It is perfectly legal under existing state law to have armed guards at schools providing they are trained to the same standards as peace officers (CJTC) and have been approved by the school administrators.
@Watcher3 Not in Federal Way Schools unless they are commissioned Police officers.
@Alexandra Shepiro @nwlib @Watcher3 Who said anything about armed kids. Seems to me you complained of someone putting words in your mouth above, how about you do us the same favor?
@nwlib@Watcher3Â If you want your student to goto a school with armed teachers and or kids, send your kids to a Private Expensive school with their own armed police force!
Not all Schools are ok with Armed people in the schools!
@Alexandra Shepiro ...and a reason why the crazy people choose schools as a target.
@KOMO_Sapiens, There are school across our nation that have armed security officers. Can you give even one example of a wild shootout with the security officer and a nutjob with a gun in which a student was hit by the security officer? Because that is the crux of your argument, that the children would be less safe for having armed security. You're being paranoid.Â
Because bad guys and wannabe cops having firefights in schools is the safest course of action for students. Where do you moonbats come up with these ideas?
@KOMO_Sapiens "...wannabe cops having firefights..." verbiage like that we all know where you get your ideas...too much time in the news streams Komo!...and no I am not in favor of this, but do admit it can, if done properly, can for a layer of protection and therefore deterrence.Â
@Superman_1967, You do realize, of course, that your evident fanaticism against guns and gun owners labels you as crazy as the fanatic far right gun owners? I can't take you seriously because of your anti-gun rants and insults toward gun owners.Â
I would be more supportive of teachers being armed. The teachers would have to go through a tactical shooting course, on their own dime. The would be required to attend yearly recertifcation training and the fact they were armed would have to remain secret to all but school admin. There are a lot of teachers who have prior military and law enforcement experience.
Knapp's plan would bring a bunch of wanna-be cops out to "try out" and I think it would be a disaster. Â
This
There is something REAL disturbing, psychologically speaking........about people who seek to go out of their way (armed with firearms) to inject themselves into the role of "protector" of anything, much less a school. Normal, rational people that are emotionally healthy and that you would want around your kids DO NOT behave like this. This is why this idea should be rejected as not even passing the laugh test.
@Superman_1967Wow, you are truly insane. In your world volunteer firefighters, police, paramedics have something wrong with them. You realize all those first-responders aren't robots, right? They are human. In many cases private citizens have more and better training than them. What makes them so special?Â
@NW-Economist @Superman_1967 I think he was referring to volunteer vigilantes, militia men, people who think they are qualified just because they have a gun. People like that. Firefighters and Police Officers, volunteer ones, usually have much more training than private citizens.
@NW-Economist @Seattleisaslew @SalParadise @Superman_1967 If you were then most likely I was too. I rarely carry unless I expect to be around wing nuts who have issues with reality.
@Seattleisaslew @NW-Economist @SalParadise @Superman_1967Ok there Mr. Doctor? Governor? President? Why should I care what you think of me? My guess is that I or many other people have been armed around you in public and you still survived. Save your histrionics.Â
@NW-Economist @SalParadise @Superman_1967 Your posts alone disqualify you as being someone who can be trusted to make rational decisions.
@NW-Economist @SalParadise @Superman_1967 They also usually, unfortunately, have a higher rate of mental illness.
@SalParadise @NW-Economist @Superman_1967Except the ones that don't? I've served in the military and I've worked as a policeman and volunteer firefighter, I can tell you, most ex-military and many civilians who do shooting classes and training have better firearms skills than many of the PDs training requirements in western WA.
I have no problem calling anybody who supports this Stupid. If this happens it's just a matter of time before one of these "volunteers" goes off their rocker. What then?
@SalParadise I have no problem calling anybody who thinks a sign that reads "Gun Free Zone" makes their child safer from a criminal gunman intent on committing mass murder than they would be if trained, armed guards were in a school supid. LOL. Â
On a similar note, I heard that the Federal Reserve just fired all of its armed guards and replaced them with signs that read, "No Stealing Money Zone".
@Fugonn The "Gun Free Zone" sign applies to you. Just a legality. The day will come when "we the people" put up a "No Wing Nut" sign in a clearing. The whack jobs will approach en mass frothing at the mouth and then we drop the net. Â
@Seattleisaslew @Fugonn WHAT?! Did you grow up on a lead paint-chip farm near power lines? Of course the "Gun Free Zone" sign applies to me. I am a law abiding citizen. Â
 However, it does nothing to prevent someone who treads outside of reality, such as yourself, from doing something drastic.
You shouldn't have a problem with calling them stupid. They are.
The answer to all of this is simply to declare all parks, schools, neighborhoods, etc. gun free zones. Problem solved.
@Dieseldog You do know that criminals can't read, right?
more lobbying and more training, such as in Burien @ the justice academy - they would have to open the program for these volunteers. Right now it's armed PIs, bailbond recovery agents, and professional security guards only.
Why is this a story? The district, nor the cops, nor the parents are entertaining this idea. What other idea from the local watering hole deserves front page space?
@OutsideObserver The topic of guns brings heated debate...plain and simple! I always enjoy reading the logic of some and the "logic" of others.
Most of you anti-gun types have no problem that Obama's kids get protected by guns in their school, where's the outrage over that?Â
@NW-Economist Got dem dar Limo's and such. Personal Chef's even. Proby evn got's him a gold watch. And suits. War our stuff? War's da fairness?
Gee Einstein.....what critical difference do the Presidents kids have with your or my kids? I shouldn't have to ask such obvious answers to such stupid questions, but people like you evidently require it.
Let me see, they are the elite, so therefore they are entitled to more than the standard citizens when across the nation, schools are gun free zones. Your and my kids, don't deserve the same kind of protection, because we aren't in a politically powerful position. Is that what you are saying?
Seems to me, our kids are just as important to us, as the Presidents kids are to him.. They deserve the same kind of protection in schools.
a "soft" target...either my computer or KOMO won't let me edit.Â
@NW-Economist:: Of all the ideas I have heard, I like the armed teacher the best. A teacher who voluntarily steps up to the plate, takes a tactical shooting class on his/her own dime and recerts every year. That being said, I do see SRO's (school resource officers) as a very valualbe deterrent to someone walking off the street and initiating a shooting. The "shooter" is most likely to choose a "sogt" target, not one with a patrol car sitting in front.
@GottadanceHaving a deputy there is almost worse than nothing, it gives people a false sense of security and the teachers and staff won't be as on their guard. Armed guards aren't the answer, even if you have one or a couple at every school, they may have to run from one side of campus to another, which could take minutes. Training and arming most teachers and roving admins is the only answer that makes sense from a tactical point of view.Â
I understand your point of view, but I would have to respond to you that the children at Sandy Hook were not the children of the president or any other important official. They were kids just like yours and mine. Having said that, I don't know if trained volunteers is the answer. My daughter is a teacher, in a portable classroom outside the main school. I worry about her all the time. We do have a deputy assigned to every school.
@Superman_1967But there could be accidents from the SS's weapons at the schools that could harm other children...
Face it, with all the mass shootings these days many children are possible targets, not just the children of political elites. We need to protect all children, not just those who belong to Presidents.Â
That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read. Since it wasn't obvious from my post (it should have been), you and I were not elected President. As such, you and I (or our families) are not targets of assassination. You and I are mostly anonymous, and most of the world has no idea who you or I are, nor do they care. Not true of the President. I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but damn....use that brain!
@Superman_1967 NW Economist is well within his rights to send his kids off to a private school and have armed protection for them, providing the school allows it, which many do.Â
@NW-Economist Still regurgitating Wayne La Pierre's talking point huh? Yes, the president's kids have Secret Service protection, same as the Bush daughters did and same as other presidents' kids.Â
@lakeview: Well, of course previous President's kids had Secret Service protection, but they weren't so hypocritical to stand up and say "what's good for my kids isn't good for your kids". They weren't trying to disarm America.
@jlynnhood If you're mentally stable you have nothing to worry about. If you're mentally unstable watch out ... they're coming for you!