5th graders accused of plotting to kill classmates
COLVILLE, Wash. (AP) - Court documents released Wednesday gave chilling details about the plans of two fifth-graders from Colville to kill a girl classmate and possibly others on the day they were caught with a knife and gun in school last week.
The Spokesman-Review reported that the boys, ages 10 and 11, remained in custody on charges of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder, tampering with a witness and conspiracy to possess a firearm after they were arrested Feb. 7.
Under Washington law, children ages 8 to 12 are presumed not to have the mental capacity to form the intent to commit crime.
But Deputy Prosecutor Lech Radzimski will present court records to a judge on Feb. 20 to try to show why law enforcement officials believe they have enough evidence to overcome that presumption.
Colville police officers called to Fort Colville Elementary School began questioning the boys, who admitted the plot and gave details about how they were going to kill a girl in their class and possibly harm a half dozen other students, court documents said.
Authorities discovered the plan when a fourth-grader saw one of the boys playing with a knife aboard a school bus and told a school employee what he'd seen.
The employee asked the 11-year-old whether he had a knife. The boy "denied any knowledge of the knife" and a search of his backpack came up empty, records showed.
But a teacher suggested that the employee search the 10-year-old's backpack because he was with the 11-year-old on the bus. That search yielded a knife, a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol and a full ammunition clip, court records showed.
A different staff member then asked the 10-year-old why he had the gun. The boy said he and the 11-year-old were going to "get" a girl identified in court documents only by initials.
"When asked what he meant by 'get' her, (the 10-year-old) responded that he and (the 11-year-old) were going to get (the girl) away from the school and do her in," court records said. The 10-year-old "further stated that the (11-year-old) was going to stab (the girl) with a knife and (the 10-year-old) was supposed to keep everyone away."
A detective who stood with the boys as they waited for transport to a juvenile hall overheard one of them tell the other: "If I find out who told them about our weapons I'm going to kill them. I don't care when I get out of jail I'm going to come back and kill them," court records said.
The Spokesman-Review reported that the boys, ages 10 and 11, remained in custody on charges of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder, tampering with a witness and conspiracy to possess a firearm after they were arrested Feb. 7.
Under Washington law, children ages 8 to 12 are presumed not to have the mental capacity to form the intent to commit crime.
But Deputy Prosecutor Lech Radzimski will present court records to a judge on Feb. 20 to try to show why law enforcement officials believe they have enough evidence to overcome that presumption.
Colville police officers called to Fort Colville Elementary School began questioning the boys, who admitted the plot and gave details about how they were going to kill a girl in their class and possibly harm a half dozen other students, court documents said.
Authorities discovered the plan when a fourth-grader saw one of the boys playing with a knife aboard a school bus and told a school employee what he'd seen.
The employee asked the 11-year-old whether he had a knife. The boy "denied any knowledge of the knife" and a search of his backpack came up empty, records showed.
But a teacher suggested that the employee search the 10-year-old's backpack because he was with the 11-year-old on the bus. That search yielded a knife, a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol and a full ammunition clip, court records showed.
A different staff member then asked the 10-year-old why he had the gun. The boy said he and the 11-year-old were going to "get" a girl identified in court documents only by initials.
"When asked what he meant by 'get' her, (the 10-year-old) responded that he and (the 11-year-old) were going to get (the girl) away from the school and do her in," court records said. The 10-year-old "further stated that the (11-year-old) was going to stab (the girl) with a knife and (the 10-year-old) was supposed to keep everyone away."
A detective who stood with the boys as they waited for transport to a juvenile hall overheard one of them tell the other: "If I find out who told them about our weapons I'm going to kill them. I don't care when I get out of jail I'm going to come back and kill them," court records said.
wow...
The authorities need to identify these kids to the public for our safety and our kids,  they are rabid lil beasts that need to but put down for the good of us all, and so they wont breed later on.  Well when the great state of Washungton releases them back to their parents ( and you know they will) maybe their parents will  give em the special Kool-Aid since they missed the chance with the cord at birth.
conspiracy or attempt should be enough to give the death penalty. we don't need any more trash in this world. take them out before they get older & harm more.
@playjoeyplay LOL
It's about time we try certain kids as adults as well. If a kid has the intent to kill and possesses a deadly weapon, he/she by all means has the capability of following through with the murder. We don't want to wait until it's too late and he/she accomplishes what they said they were going to do. Just because you're under the age of 18 doesn't mean you can get away with anything and everything. Maybe these kids have heard/seen stories where 12 year olds got off attempted murder charges because of their age. Lock these boys up and make sure they are not a threat if they are to be released.
Sounds like they need to put these little cretins to sleep like a rabid dog. Maybe their parents too. Nothing like that ever even crossed my mind when I was that age. Too much glorified violence on TV, movies and video games. I think there is not enough parental guidance these days. Just think of what will happen if we have another Carrington event today. It might be a good thing. No more hiding behind social media, ear glued to a cell phone and everyone texting their friends instead of real person to person communication. It might be a good thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M57dPOeCpvA
I find it interesting that they (or one of them) is already planning to kill someone after they get out. Holy h3ll. All I could think about at that age is riding my horse up to the little burger joint and having some fries. Holy h3ll.  Â
Where did they get this gun? A parent? Â
I mean, where does an 11 year old get a .45 caliber handgun with a full clip?Â
If "adults" can't properly secure their firearms, then they can't complain about new gun control laws. How much more evidence do we need that people are not smart enough to be responsible with guns?Â
There are many states, Not Just Washington, that try to protect children under certain ages from being prosecuted.  THEY ALL NEED TO PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR BUTTS AND REALIZE TODAYS CHILDREN ARE TRUELY RAISING THEMSELVES (I.E. LATCH KEY).  WHILE MOMMIES AND DADDIES ARE OUT MAKIN THEIR RETIREMENT HAPPEN, JUNIOR & JUNIORETTE ARE PLAYING "GRAND THEFT AUTO", "HALO" AND 'CALL TO DUTY.  NO MATTER THE FORMAT OF THESE GAMES, THEY ALL LEND A HAND TO DESENSITIZING OUR YOUTH TO VIOLENT ACTIONS.  AND THE WORST PART BEING, THEY END UP WITH  A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AND COMPASSION FOR THE VIOLENCE AND NEVER SEE THE KILLING IN THE GAME FOR THE " REAL DEATH" THAT IS BEING PLAYED OUT IN THEIR LIVES.Â
@DrkRaven As a grandmother of 2 young boys(ages 7&8) I agree with your points. I have one grandson who is allowed to play violent games & when becomes angry, well lets say how he speaks at time is a bit unnerving. The other grandson is more supervise my his father & his only habit is wrestling & protecting the underdog.
However, if they are bringing charges against these boy I beleive the parents should be facing the same sentencing. Yes I do put the blame on the parents, these aren't 16-18 years olds.
@DrkRaven clean the food out of your keyboard so your caps lock key doesnt stick
@DrkRaven Why are you yelling?!
@MizIMO I am guessing because @DrkRaven is mad. It would be a good reason to yell.
What are the parents like? I would guess they have used such verbage. A cancer in our society was just dicovered. Now what do you do with it?
Also, I think a massive push by society to de-glamourize the ganster/thug life culture would be a great help in reducing crime, particularly crimes commited by children and young people.
I believe we need to change the juvenile criminal laws, kids can and do know what they're doing is wrong and are quite capable of carrying out heinous crimes. By the age of eight years old nowadays.
Those two kids just ruined their lives with their actions here. Im so glad it was stopped before anything happened, and grateful for the child who turned them in. Give that kid an award for being brave enough to say something! Someone teach the two wanna be murderers some consequences. They didnt kill, but they sure as hell meant to.
I'm hoping that these kids and their parents get court mandated counseling. The parents need to learn how to handle kids like these and the kids need some help as well.Â
I'm absolutely shocked. Where is this stuff coming from? That children as young as 10 and 11 years old are *plotting* to murder another person (especially a girl) is difficult for me to grasp. I can only speak out against becoming numb to this type of news. It is NOT normal. Something is wrong.
I'll say it again.................... How would a gun control bill have prevented this from happening??? It wouldn't have!!!
If the gun was secured in a gun safe the kids wouldn't have been able to get their hands on the weapon. SECURE YOUR WEAPONS PEOPLE!!!!
The other surprising thing I find this is in Colville? Man that's a sleepy backwater. I'd not expect news like thing from a place like that, not that it's immune to such things.
Oh, KOMO... KOMO... KOMO!!! It is called a MAGAZINE, not a clip. Even the 5th grader knows that.
You must think you know everything cause you finally bought a gun. Who cares!!!!! clip, magazine same stinking thing to get the point across to the readers.
The fact that they had a knife and a gun clearly means this was serious. I don't care what their age. It may make them even more apt to actually follow through because they are much less able to fully understand the consequences at their age.Â
It reminds me of the stabbing at the middle school in Snohomish near here where the girl stabbed the two other girls in the bathroom. The girl who was nearly killed can tell you how real these things are. The girl who did the stabbing planned it too, brought a knife and DID do it. It is very real and does happen. My kids both received texts shortly after it happened from friends that went to this school telling them about it. Very chilling. And our neighbor is the media liaison at the hospital; suffice it to say per the ER doc, it's an absolute miracle that girl survived.Â
Oh please! 5th Graders don't even understand what the word "Kill" really means! Stop taking them seriously! Or better yet!! Why not get to the bottom of this BS. These days EVERYBODY, according to the news, seems to have "Kill Lists".... I'll bet if I wrote down the list of the 7 dwarves, Media would call IT a kill list too.Â
@PhunkyMunkyDoes YOUR child go to this school? Because MINE does. I have a 10 and almost 13 year old boys.Â
I also have older nephews all of which have never joked about killing kids at school, much less brought two weapons to school with the intent of following through.Â
When your child is the one who is attending a school where kids are bringing weapons then tell them not to take it seriously and blow it off as childs play. I on the other hand am thankful the police are taking this seriously and handling this appropriately.Â
@PhunkyMunky My 9 year old goes to that school! They better take this stuff seriously. Kids kill kids all the time!Â
@PhunkyMunky You under estimate children & their individual abilities. I once knew a 6 grader who learn how to build an atomic bomb by reading 12 grade physic books. No I don't think these boys should go to prison or be tried as adults, however, intervention is needed. Sereal killers don't become monsters overnight.
@PhunkyMunky Would you take it any more seriously if your own child was on the list? Saying 5th graders dont understand what dead is is a pretty naive thing to say. SOME might not fully comprehend, some do, and some just dont care because they have been brought up without ideals or morals. I dont think they fully grasp the consequences of their actions, sadly.
@PhunkyMunkyReally? How often are you around 5th graders? Give me a break. I spend my days with 5th graders, teaching them how to summarize reading passages, how to identify the main idea and details, how to take notes and write reports, how to add and subtract fractions, about levers and pulleys in science, about explorers and the colonies, AND kindness, respect, responsibility, hard work, social skills... They do understand what kill means. I'm not trying to be rude to you in my response - I'm just saying that all kinds of comments are made about kids and schools by people may not be in the trenches with us on a daily basis and therefore may not have a clear and accurate picture of which they speak. 5th graders with a gun and a knife? Yeah... it's not serious until it is. Last night I dreamed about an intruder in my classroom and woke up frantically struggling to get out the words, "Help me!" Yeah, it's real.
@skm @PhunkyMunky I have a 5 year old and a 9 year old and 5 nephews all have been through the 5th grade. It took seeing death (of a pet) for my daughter to understand what dead is. At that time I told her that while her bird passed away from probably natural reasons, that we can affect other beings the same way and that we need to be aware of that. I explained when you hurt someone real bad, that they can end up like her pet. To this day my daughter is not violent.Â
I don't think children are stupid, but I don't see how a 5th grader knows exactly what dead means or what it means to kill.Â
And I'm sorry about your nightmare. Events like Sandy Hook have got to be stressful and frightening for Teachers and other School Staff, since such an incident hits a bit closer to home. I'm sure you know shootings like that are the exception rather than the rule but I'm equally sure it doesn't feel that way.Â
@PhunkyMunky @skm Thank you for your kind words. Like I said, rudeness was not my intention - I just feel strongly about the potential for violence in schools. Sandy Hook... horrifying. The feeling is that we are sitting ducks. I've been showing my students the news clips and blogs of Jacoby Miles (a gymnast in Puyallup who was paralyzed a couple of months ago) and of Jessie Owen and her family who were seriously injured in a car accident. They are seeing how "real" suddenly being a quadriplegic can be. Still, 5th graders with a knife and gun? Big, big punishment is in order. Big.Â
For the love of God. Wow. Just wow. What the he%! is going on in this world?? Unbelievable.
" Under Washington law, children ages 8 to 12 are presumed not to have the mental capacity to form the intent to commit crime."Â However, in the REST of the states in America, kids know right from wrong before they even START school. Washington stupidity must be exempt, because we've seen the GLARING results of some of Washington's "laws."
@Harley-H.S.C. "However, in the Rest of states in America kids know right from wrong before they even start school? What planet or country are from or are you speaking of goats?  In Oregon a 15 years served time until he was 21 for shooting his mother in the back of head while baking cooking on a dare from his friends becasue mom wouldn't give the teenagers the keys to her car. This only one example, wow just look at the gangs through our country when childen start in the early years 10-12) committing crimes to belong. Please don't make this regional or political.
Whoa! Sounds like an epic fail on the parenting here. Glad they got them before something happened.
@Zoso You really should not put down ones parenting when you have no idea what the home life is all about. The kids could be angry at the world and this was what they thought of doing, people thrive on negativity and hate. These boys are the outcome of it. School shootings and people killing people are becoming a part of everyday life. You have no idea what these boys parents were doing in the first place to help them.Â
@Just my say I seriously doubt that. It's the parents' job to be teaching their parents right from wrong, therefore any kid under the right parenting would understand that this is completely wrong.
@Central Yeah that's why I don't wanna say too much against Just My Say 'cause I know some kids will rebel regardless and will end up in some trouble, but still it's mostly dependant on what you're taught as a kid by your parents.
@Just my say @Zoso No its not wrong, bottom line is parenting. Todays problems are because parenting is becoming a lost skill. Some or many parents have left the raising part to childcare center, schools, TV, video games, comuters, gangs and then blames society when their children go a stray. We learn by example when young not books or preaching. These are children not young men committing crimes.
@Just my say @Zoso
For most, but not all, kids who get into this kind of trouble, the problems start with poor parenting. However, Iâll give Just My Sayâs comment a âlikeâ because he/she does have a valid point â there are some kids who are going to get into trouble no matter what kind of parenting they have, and itâs unfair to blame the parents in those cases. But those cases are the exception rather than the norm, so Iâm also giving Zosoâs comment a big âlikeâ because Iâm guessing itâs about a 99%% probability that his or her comment is spot on.
@Zoso Not every child is the same. Hell in my family we have people that are very successful, and we have one person that is always in trouble and has been to prison Does that mean his parents failed him, no it does not. It means that he made his own choice in life. Hell I think he broke into a school at the age of 11. His parents sent him off to boot camp. Nothing worked with him. It was never the parents. You can't assume that all these parents are sitting around with their thumb up their butt, not giving a rats a**. You just don't know what is going on and its wrong to think you do.
What kind of law is that? My son knows right from wrong, he knows not to harm others, he knows not to steal, and he is 5.
 They have the mental capacity to plan a crime, just not to commit crime. All I can say is WOW
@Just my say Biologically speaking, while kids that age may know right from wrong, as a group they are short-sighted and impulsive. They don't always act on what they know to be right and wrong, and since they do not have the benefit of understanding cause and effect as well as (some) adults do it wouldn't be fair to assume that they are in complete control of themselves every time they do something wrong.
I think in this case however, the fact that they appear to have planned it out rather than just showing up one day with a gun on an impulse, they should receive mental help instead of prison.
@Orangulo I didn't think of it as a group, and that would make somewhat sense on the law. If you got the impression that I wanted jail or prison for these boys, your wrong. I am a true believer that makes one harder and more of a criminal I think everyone is able to get help, and change for the better. I will post comments about wanting people to get help, but I always get eaten alive on here. I try to stay away from saying things like that (I don't seem to try to hard thou). I like to understand the reasoning why and not turn my back on it. I really do hope and pray that the family is able to help these boys.Â
@Just my say Another reason to be a proud Washingtonian...