Despite complaints, Jesus still invoked at Longview council meetings
LONGVIEW, Wash. (AP) - The Rev. Larry Pedigo of Highlands Baptist Church delivered the invocation at Thursday's City Council meeting and ended the prayer, "In Jesus' name, Amen."
"Amen," came the hearty response in the council chambers, The Daily News reported Friday.
Longview Mayor Don Jensen told the audience that until the council takes formal action to remove the invocation from the meeting agendas, the prayer stays.
During the public comment period, some people said they felt they have a legal right to a Christian invocation.
Jensen said the council will discuss its invocation policy next week at a workshop.
"We want to do it right now, and we want to have a policy so we try not to get afoul of the law," he said.
A citizen's complaint about the Christian prayer prompted Jensen to tell the Kelso-Longview Ministerial Association last month it was not acceptable to invoke Christ's name at the council invocation because it could expose the city to a lawsuit. The ministerial association told the council its members would no longer provide invocations. Councilman Mike Wallin invited Pastor Pedigo.
Invocations have been a regular part of Longview's council agenda since the late 1950s. Longview resident Dan Smith has repeatedly written to council members to argue that non-Christians shouldn't have to endure a prayer at a government meeting, and that he would certainly win if he took the city to court.
City Attorney James McNamara said the U.S. Supreme Court has made it clear that invocations can be given at City Council meetings, but different courts have reached different conclusions about whether the prayer may invoke Jesus Christ's name.
After the meeting, a dismayed Smith said, "They won."
He couldn't believe none of the Christians who expressed support to him for his stance didn't address the council, he said.
"I wanted to present the discussion. I did. I'm not a leader. I don't want to be a leader," Smith said. "I'm disappointed in Longview."
"Amen," came the hearty response in the council chambers, The Daily News reported Friday.
Longview Mayor Don Jensen told the audience that until the council takes formal action to remove the invocation from the meeting agendas, the prayer stays.
During the public comment period, some people said they felt they have a legal right to a Christian invocation.
Jensen said the council will discuss its invocation policy next week at a workshop.
"We want to do it right now, and we want to have a policy so we try not to get afoul of the law," he said.
A citizen's complaint about the Christian prayer prompted Jensen to tell the Kelso-Longview Ministerial Association last month it was not acceptable to invoke Christ's name at the council invocation because it could expose the city to a lawsuit. The ministerial association told the council its members would no longer provide invocations. Councilman Mike Wallin invited Pastor Pedigo.
Invocations have been a regular part of Longview's council agenda since the late 1950s. Longview resident Dan Smith has repeatedly written to council members to argue that non-Christians shouldn't have to endure a prayer at a government meeting, and that he would certainly win if he took the city to court.
City Attorney James McNamara said the U.S. Supreme Court has made it clear that invocations can be given at City Council meetings, but different courts have reached different conclusions about whether the prayer may invoke Jesus Christ's name.
After the meeting, a dismayed Smith said, "They won."
He couldn't believe none of the Christians who expressed support to him for his stance didn't address the council, he said.
"I wanted to present the discussion. I did. I'm not a leader. I don't want to be a leader," Smith said. "I'm disappointed in Longview."
Matthew 6:5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 6:1Â "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
Mark 11:25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.
@Enon lol
@Gaikokujin so what say you Christian, other than nervously cackling like a school girl
Well, it appears the good Christian folks can't explain what they mean or back up their comments. They just give up and run.
@SisRobin, since Gaikokujin has left the building, and you have taken over his trite comment-making, perhaps you want to enlighten all of us as to why the verses quoted at the beginnig of this string are "out of context."Â Are you up to it?
@factchekr You may be listening, but your are not hearing... that is the problem.
OK, then. Enlighten us. How are the above verses taken out of context? They are complete, not paraphrased and are on topic. We're listening.
@Enonnot nervous at all, but I see your attacking and  belittlement continues
@Gaikokujin I notice you always lol when you lose.
@Gaikokujin It is correct and I quoted it context.
Gospel of Matthew chapters 5, 6 and 7 are the moral teachings of JESUS! Sermon on the Mount it is addressed toward the followers and disciples of JESUS himself.
In Matthew 6:1 to 6:18 *JESUS* tells US what the proper way to pray is - in secret. JESUS tells everyone not to be like the hypocrites who love to pray in public so everyone sees them!
Matthew 6:1 Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
Â
Matthew 6:2 Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
Matthew 6:4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Â
Matthew 6:5 And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Â
Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
[Lord's prayer]
Matthew 6:14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6:1 to 6:14. Rebut this now
@Gaikokujin and how did you arrive at the conclusion I was an atheist numbnuts?
@Gaikokujin Yeah, we know only Christians are allowed to 'cherry pick' scripture to use as they want.  It's out-of-context when it does not suit or support your particular view.  Typical.
@Enon @factchekr incorrrect, you took a verse of scripture out of its context to use it to attack, so yea it is funny.
@factchekr I didn't and haven't lost.  I laughed because it is hilarious when atheists try to pull a verse of scripture out of it's context and use it to refute something.
@factchekr It's typical. Silence, attacks, or just the lols when they have nothing to say to rebut the facts
@Enon Sic 'em!
@Audio Cat so quiet... the mice run
Prayers belong in the home and the church, but not at a council meeting. I have never said "under God" when making the pledge and never will. I find it offensive that the church is trying to force their belief on me. I have my own belief's and will accept no one trying to shove their belief's down my throat.Â
@LongBeachBum The words "under God", were not even added until 1954 and then as a political statement to distinguish the United States from those damn godless commies. (Former Soviet Union)
Now I not sure of this next part, but I also heard somewhere that the pledge was made up as a sales gimmick to sell more flags. Â (I better fact check that part).
@K. Coleman You bring up an excellent point. That statements of support of God in the Christian influence were not added until the 50's it was the same for our money... Yet there are those that act like it has been there since the beginning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_we_trust
I believe they actually create more division than they avoid... We are supposed to keep government and religion separate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
Sorry, my links were lost...
http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx
and
http://www.legion.org/flag/pledge
respectively
@ShelbyBlaire I have found most of the information to easily verifiable personally. Most instructors will not accept the citation, but it is the easiest to search. Perhaps you would prefer
%s
The coins had been minted off and on with a variation of the inscription as a result of the influence of the Civil War, if you read the entire portion you will realize that even the reasons given then could be argued to be against the original intentions of the founding of the US. Regardless, the notes of the US did not bear the words until the 50's
and again here for the pledge of allegiance:
%s
@ShelbyBlaire Would you prefer Conservapedia?
Did you really just use Wikipedia as a reliable source? lol
Almost makes me wish I still lived there.
Christian bullies who don't understand the Constitution and what this country was founded upon. They are going to lose in the long run though.Â
@lakeview lol Christian bullies
@Gaikokujin There's that lol again! You lose!
OK. You didn't lose. You gave up.
@TheChosen @Gaikokujin it's not s win lose situation
@Gaikokujin No, you do lose, but I agree with you on the Baked View and the Bully part.
@factchekr Psst, this isn't a winning or losing game and I said lol because lakeview calling other people bullies is hilarious.
Unless every religion is allowed the same opportunity, then it should be stopped.Â
Its a city council meeting, not a Bible study class.Â
This whole spectacle in Long View reminds me of one of favorite quotes that is commonly attributed to Mahatma Gandhi â âI like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.ââ
âWhenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father, who sees in secret, will reward youâ (Matthew 6:5-6)
Itâs not prayer per se thatâs the issue with Long Viewâs invocation, itâs the âlook at me, Iâm really faithful because I pray loudly in publicâ kind of prayer that Jesus told the disciples not to do. The âlook at me, Iâm prayingâ kind of prayer, I always suspect is directed less at God and more theatrics directed at an audience.
@PhatharriusÂ
Did you take that from the "New World Translation"? if not, you quoted it almost word for word.
 @Skillet77 @Phatharrius I used NETBible translation easy to read and understand. It also has a side by side footnote/commentary - https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Matthew+6
@Phatharrius @Susabelle @Skillet77 fascinating. While I am not a religious person, the study of the bible has always fascinated me. So much of the language and meaning of the words was changed it often became difficult to discern the original meaning. Even the English language itself was not a written language for so long, it was the Church that first attempted to turn it into a written language, LOL and so they applied Latin rules to it. Which is why we have silly rules like "you cannot split an infinitive" which of course you CANNOT do in Latin or Latin based language.
@Susabelle @Phatharrius @Skillet77 It has the Greek referenced in notes and the Greek text is there as a tab option.
@Phatharrius @Skillet77 Out of curiosity... is it a direct translation of the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic? Or is the translation done incorporating modern language shifts before translating to English? When I was younger I had wanted to study dead languages but there was not much of a market for that kind of education.
@Phatharrius Another beautiful quote from Mahatma Mohandas Ghandi is 'be the change you wish to see in the world.'  I think some of my fellow Christians need to read and heed that one.
@Doxie I wish they would too Doxie. Many of the Christians on this board are, in my opinion, a very poor representation of what the Christian faith is all about. There seems to be no humility and only arguing and putting people down and laughing at them. It is not what will attract people to the faith. Who would want a faith like that? What is attractive about being miserable like the rest of the world?Â
@Ace I know and I agree with you. It's embarrassing.  Jesus told his disciples to tell what they knew and if people didn't listen, to move on.  I think he would be shaking his head at some of the posts I see on every story like this - and some that have nothing to do with faith at all.  I would rather model LOVE, which is all that Jesus was about, with my actions and deeds to everyone, not just people who believe what I do, than yammer on and on and on about Jesus is Lord and all who don't believe should be pitied and mocked.  It's just disgusting.  And not Biblical either.  He also said, "Whatever you do for others, you do for me."  And I don't recall him mocking anyone but the money changers in the temples.
@Doxie @Phatharrius I love Ghandi!Â
@Doxie @Susabelle @PhatharriusAre you talking about the one with Ben Kingsley? I loved that one, another religious leader I greatly admire is the Dalai Lama. I dont know how anyone could be in his presence and not feel the love. 7 years in Tibet is another of my favorite movies.
@Susabelle @Doxie @Phatharrius He was a great, great man.  If you haven't seen the movie in Ghandi, released in 1981, it follows the book "Ghandi, His Life and Message for the World" to the letter.  I highly recommend both.
Didn't the courts decide that when it came to the Pledge of Allegiance that students that didn't want to do it, or don't believe in it, have the option to step into the hallway or sit at their desk and ignore it?
Same would apply here.
@NoneÂ
I don't know about now days, but back in the 50's 60's, those students that did not want to salute the flag for religious reasons, didn't go anywhere, they stood with the rest of the class out of respect, but did not salute the flag.
@None And what would people say if a muslim should decide to say a religious prayer during a public meeting?
@Blindman @None Oh man, wouldn't you love to see that?  Have them clean their hands and feet and throw down a prayer rug pointed toward Mecca and start praying - because it's their right too!  That would be so funny, to see the reactions of the self-righteous toward someone exercising their own rights, with beliefs which differ from theirs.
How about those that want it, or believe in it, go out in the hallway and do it out there?
@factchekr It appears that more people are okay with it and only one person has made a formal complaint.  Mr. Smith can take it outside or lighten up his attitude.
And don't forget that the US Supreme Court has already said it is okay.
Just going off what this article says, near the end of the article.
@None @factchekr When did the U.S. Supreme Court say this was OK? From my understanding they have refused to get involved in these cases.Â