State to spend $300,000 to fix tilting state ferries
EVERETT, Wash. (AP) - Washington transportation officials are making adjustments to three ferries to stop them from tilting to one side when the boats are empty.
Assistant Transportation Secretary David Moseley says the listing doesn't create a long-term problem for the vessels but the agency is making the simple fix to respond to concerns brought by customers, crew members and lawmakers.
The Daily Herald reports that the work involves adding tons of ballast on each vessel. Moseley says it will cost $300,000 and be completed by the end of June. The adjustments will be made the Chetzemoka, Salish and Kennewick ferries.
The boats are designed to lean when there are no vehicles because not all the weight is evenly distributed. But citizens and others worried it could cause future maintenance problems.
Assistant Transportation Secretary David Moseley says the listing doesn't create a long-term problem for the vessels but the agency is making the simple fix to respond to concerns brought by customers, crew members and lawmakers.
The Daily Herald reports that the work involves adding tons of ballast on each vessel. Moseley says it will cost $300,000 and be completed by the end of June. The adjustments will be made the Chetzemoka, Salish and Kennewick ferries.
The boats are designed to lean when there are no vehicles because not all the weight is evenly distributed. But citizens and others worried it could cause future maintenance problems.
'The boats are designed to lean when there are no vehicles because not all the weight is evenly distributed. But citizens and others worried it could cause future maintenance problems'.
Who are these citizens and 'others'? What qualifies them to make such an assumption? 'Could' cause future maintenance probems?
It seems that none of them have ever been on a ferry. If they had, they'd understand why the guy on the car deck tells you what lane to park in!
We be stoopider every day.
They direct you which part of the car deck to park on, based on the the load that is on the ferry at the time. Obviously as vehicles drive on the ferry, it requires distributing the weight across the deck, so this is what the ferry workers do. The problem is when there is no vehicles on the boats; that is when they list to one side. This has nothing to do with vehicles being on the ferry, so drop the arrogance.
Olympia lists - to the left. There is plenty of money where that came from??
This comment has been deleted
@jhonjack8Â This is a scam by a spammer.
I've been on the ferrys and never noticed the list. But now that I've been made aware of it I feel traumatized and demand a six-figure settlement from the State.
Armchair politicians --- get up off your bootie and start a revolution instead of complaining on a news site.
@whenudieitsdone Yes shut up and keep sending your money to Olympia??
What do you think will happen to what little fuel economy these boats have when they add more weight? For a State that wants to be a GREEN leader, adding weight to anything that moves is not reducing operating costs.
@shamrock535Â I like this , How often does the ferry run empty are we in a fashion show. compared with how often its full. the differance in fuel consumpson. State likes to spend money.
How much sand can one buy for 300 grand?
@UtterReality Sand can shift, so using it without concrete or other stabilizer isÂ
out of the realms for a solution.
Adding tons of weight will increase the draft of the vessels, perhaps even to theÂ
point where they exceed design specifications. As far as saying that the vessel
was designed to list, I absolutely find that statement to be ludicrous and withoutÂ
merit.
Ships use water as ballast. It's free and it's movable.
Who are you to question the engineers that designed these vessels? Why does it matter to you how a ferry lists when it's not in service? Let me guess, yer one of the 'others' the article references.
So now the boats have to be retrofited in order to appease the ignorant. For eye appeal. Now they will have more equipment subject to failure. Now they have to monitor how to shift the ballast for every load. When one on those pumps fails, that boat ain't leaving the dock.
All because some citizens and others don't like the way it looks when empty.
@bobalouie Ballast tanks are used to compensate for
temporary load issues, or as in the case of our aircraftÂ
carriers, to allow passage through the Panama CanalÂ
Lock system.
Ballast tanks were not designed to be a fix for aÂ
permanent list problem however and using them toÂ
do so would cause additional issues as it limitsÂ
the total effectiveness of the ballast tanks.
Soooo...they are built to lean...and we want to spend $$$ fixing something that is a non-issue. Stupid.
If the ferry was level when carrying a full load, won't it start to list in the opposite direction once it becomes fully loaded.
@J LAKE It's probably loaded in a particular way to avoid that.
The state shouldn't even be involved in ferries. This wouldn't happen if it was a private company, and I'm sure it would be cheaper!
@Isadora The state has been involved in the system since it took over a failed private entity in 1951. The reason? The public demanded the state take over because the private entity was too expensive to use, and frequent strikes shut the run down. Look up the history on Puget Sound Navigation Company.
@Isadora Until the late 40's it WAS run by private companies. They ran it into the ground. The state came in to fix the problem. No, we do NOT want private companies running it into the ground again.
@mhungry @Isadora The take over of the ferry system was NOT the resultÂ
of poor maintenance of the fleet, but it was the result of a labor dispute. I wasÂ
alive then, were you??????
The private ferries were NEVER allowed to be ran into the ground by theirÂ
owners as you imply.
Â
The Black Ball Line wanted to raise usage rates because of labor union
wage and benefits demands, but the state refused to allow the rate increase.
After the state took over operations of the fleet serving the sound, they
raised the user to rates even higher than the initial Black Ball request.
That fact says so much for efficiency of our government agencies.
@StevenRosenow @pete1427 @mhungry @IsadoraÂ
The reduced rates that you cite occurred only after
a fuel tax was instigated to subsidize the system. Â
The private ferry systems received no suchÂ
subsidies. The WA ferry system also receivedÂ
subsidies from the bridge tolls collected on theÂ
Hood Canal Bridge through about 1975. Â
In the late 40s or early 50s, the Coleman Dock inÂ
Seattle had about a half dozen ferries tied up
 during the strike. ( I forgot the actual year)
The state took over the system for cross sound transportation in 1951, but let Black Ball linesÂ
keep their US/Canadian routes. Â
The Black Ball Line's M/V Coho still runsÂ
from Port Angeles to Victoria, BC and
has NEVER missed a scheduled sailing
in over 50 years of operation. Â
That is a statistic that the WA DOT ferriesÂ
can not duplicate.
@pete1427 @mhungry @Isadora Wrong, when the state took over the line, they reduced fares. That's irrefutable, and is sourced in no fewer than five books about the history of the ferry system.
@Isadora So more corners can be cut from a private company then people can drown in their cars.
@EÂ @Isadora The M/V Coho is a ferry that runs from Port Angeles and hasÂ
NEVER missed a scheduled sailing in over 50 years of service. The same canÂ
not be said in regard to the vessels in the ferry system that is operated by
the State of Washington.
The M/V Coho is privately owned by the Black Ball Line and was builtÂ
in Seattle and has been making runs SAFELY to and from Victoria
 B.C since 1959. Her operational cost are NOT subsidized by the state.Â
 She is NOT part of the Washington State Ferry System.
At one time ALL of the ferries on the sound were privately owned and
 the majority of those ferries were owned and operated by Black Ball. Â
There was a labor dispute and the owners wanted to raise their rates toÂ
cover the additional cost of labor, but the state refused to allow them toÂ
do so. Â
This resulted in a strike and subsequent shut down of most of the ferriesÂ
operating on Puget Sound and the Straight.
The state's action resulted the FORCED sale of the majority of BlackÂ
Ball's fleet to the state for pennies on the dollar. Users of the ferries wereÂ
then were then given a rate increase in excess of the rate increase that
 Black Ball had ask the state to authorize to maintain operations.Â
From a safety standpoint, the M/V COHO's design is superior to ANYÂ
Washington State Ferry as it was designed to ply our waters in underÂ
even the worst weather conditions that mother nature can throw at her.
The boats were known by Todd (Vigor) workers as Eileen, Eileen 2, Eileen 3. Rain water would pool in front of the thresholds to the doors on the sun deck as a result of the list. There were other issues as well, such as inadequate fendering that was later added by Dakota Creek Industries in Anacortes. The design was obviously not particularly well thought out and rushed into production. Who in their right mind would design a boat with a built in list and who would buy one?
@boatguy washington state
And the state spends a nother $300K just to fix a non problem to make a few people feel better. This state is broke to the core...
DUMB
it is never a good idea to build a partially capsized boat. there are no exceptions.
@dorimonsonfanYep... sort of like "we" apparently forgot to learn that floating bridges are really boats - not mere highways - and anything that causes them to take on water in the pontoons is dangerous. That is how "we" sank the first successful floating bridge ever built - the original Lacey V. Murrow Memorial (Mercer Island / US-10 / I-90) Bridge during a Thanksgiving weekend storm in 1990. It is how "we" sank the Hood Canal bridge in a similar storm 1979. And by current news reports, it seems like how we are setting up to sink the new SR-520 bridge soon after it is assembled. Boats should not list, and they definitely should not leak!!!
As for these ferries, my only concern is that if they have been balanced to list when empty and right when loaded, will they (after these "repairs") now right when empty and list when fully loaded? Hmmm...
@JLS1950 that's a very good question. if cars will now make them list maybe they'll only be passenger ferries?
This is REALLY where your money is going....  âº
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-3Iq3XQkAw
The weight is not evenly distributed when the vessel is empty because of the offset stair/elevator/mechanical casing. There is more weight on that side; therefore, the vessel lists a little when empty, and when cars get loaded, the list pretty much goes away if they have loaded the vessel properly. Any of the times I have been aboard any Kwa-di-Tabil vessels, I have never noticed the list as being that pronounced or bad. If the state really wants to fix something on these vessels, how about taking that $300,000 they want to spend on this project, and putting it towards something more meaningful and dire, like replacing the much-too-large engines with smaller, more fuel-efficient types. Honestly, I think that's more of a problem than the list.
@bswanplsbo The elevators, stairs, and exhaust systems on the states previously builtÂ
ferries were all amidships and therefore were never an issue in regard to vessel stability.  Â
Why screw around with previously proven design concepts only to end up with this kind
of mess.
@pete1427Â The state had no choice. The people of Port Townsend and Whidbey Island were demanding service after months of practically nothing, and the state needed ferries of similar size to the steel-electric boats they yanked in 2007. The only option they had was to buy the designs of the nearly-identical M.V. Island Home (which was designed in Seattle, and operates on Massachusetts waters), which has the same list characteristics, or they could've spent two years or more designing and then two years or more building a completely new ferry. Port Townsend had 25% of its businesses close due to the lost revenue the ferry run brought it. In short, the state had its hands tied to the only choice they had - which was to modify the Island Home design and put it to use here.
Next we will have another article on how the ferry system is losing money. And they will wonder why.
@chuckh0308 Your late that was two ago
So the state spent $300K to make some people feel better?
I feel bad about wasting that money. Can I haz some state funds?
It just sounds like BS to me.If for some reason the cars and trucks (cargo) had to be loaded more to one side, I could understand building some heavy items off center to help level the vessel when fully loaded.This is not the case.Ferries of this type are meant to be loaded symmetrically, side to side.You often do not know ahead of time how much load there will be.You keep the boat level by loading it evenly.This is a faulty design, or rather redesign as it was a modification of an existing design.If the original design produced a listing vessel, you modify to correct that or donât use that design.If a good sound design has been modified by the same mentality as designed the 520 pontoons, then, yes I would expect nothing more than failure.
Â@oldster70 You should run for Governor I would vote for you you have common sense. Oldster70 2016
Some liberal at WSDOT probably has a brother in the ballast business. Keep electing em people, and your gonna keep gettin it.
@sportbuff01 According to the Daily Herald article, it was Rep. Norma Smith, R-Clinton who said, "It's a topic of discussion that I've been having with the Department of Transportation for several months now," she said. "I'm pleased they are going to take action."
How does that crow taste?
@Fooey Patooey! @sportbuff01 The fact that it was a actually memberÂ
of the GOP that finally was able to have the issue addressed shows thatÂ
sportbuff may have a valid point about re-electing the same liberalÂ
individuals over and over again makes your question about the taste ofÂ
crow to actually seem to be be misplaced or in error.
This issue should have been addressed BEFORE the state exceptedÂ
any of the vessels and been fixed by the contractors then at their expense. Â
It should not have been allowed to be an issue that the tax paying publicÂ
would to have to fund.
Okay, going into it the first time knowing full well the vessels would, um, "tilt" (WTF?) list, why wasn't it corrected then instead of being repeated two more times? Vigor Industries should also be held accountable for producing these boats. And the vessels already cost millions more than a single Mk ll, so what's another 300 large? Mosely is history. His lying has gone on too long. Here's hoping governor Inslee will clean house. NO VESSEL IN THE WORLD IS DESIGNED TO LEAN!
@Deepdraft You are incorrect. The KDT-class ferries was designed to lean - even the ferry they were designed off of, was designed to lean. The M.V. Island Home in Massachusetts (for which the Kwa-di-Tabil class was born off of), has a very pronounced lean when empty.
@StevenRosenow So you've made your comment twice here, claiming they were designed this way. So my question is why?Â
@Alert Eagle It's because the fidley and engine exhaust casing, as well as the staircases are all on one side, as opposed to both sides of most of the fleet. This creates a little more weight on that side of the vessel, thus explaining the list. It is not a design flaw. It's just how these ferries were designed.
@StevenRosenow @DeepdraftSo what you are saying is they were screwed up from the beginning, on purpose, or is gravity different in Massachusetts?
So we get to spend $300,000 to add weight to the ferries. The ferries will not be able to carry as many cars because of the excess weight. The ferries will make less money so the rates can be raised again. Nice plan!
An expensive solution to a problem that should of never existed in the first place.