Illegally downloading movies? Studios may be coming after you
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SEATTLE -- Washington state has become a hotbed for illegal downloading, but the culprits are quickly finding out that what they thought was a free movie could end up costing them thousands of dollars.
Hollywood is coming to Seattle, but not to make a movie. Rather, studios representatives are in town to track down people who've illegally downloaded their products.
Many movie fans think that's a good idea, because filmmakers deserve to be paid for their work.
"Well, that's what artists do. Artists need to be paid for what they do for a living and you're not there to just give it away," one moviegoer said.
That includes artists who worked on an animated feature called "Zambezia." The movie doesn't officially come out until March, but that hasn't stopped people from illegally downloading pirated versions.
"A lot of it is coming from something called bit torrent, where people download individual pieces from different users and create what's known as the swarm," said Seattle attorney Richard Symmes, who's leading the charge against the downloaders.
Washington's tech savvy population is now a copyright litigation hotbed, and a studio is coming to town to track down those who have illegally downloaded its movies.
Symmes said the move isn't about greed, but about the studios being fairly compensated so they can pay their employees.
A private company has managed to get the IP addresses of the local offenders, and local Internet providers are now being subpoenaed to get the names of those subscribers.
Symmes said anyone who has illegally downloaded movies could be in for a court battle.
"It would probably be more expensive to go ahead and fight this rather than take a nominal settlement and just make this go away," he said.
Symmes expects the IP list to grow as other film studios join in.
Hollywood is coming to Seattle, but not to make a movie. Rather, studios representatives are in town to track down people who've illegally downloaded their products.
Many movie fans think that's a good idea, because filmmakers deserve to be paid for their work.
"Well, that's what artists do. Artists need to be paid for what they do for a living and you're not there to just give it away," one moviegoer said.
That includes artists who worked on an animated feature called "Zambezia." The movie doesn't officially come out until March, but that hasn't stopped people from illegally downloading pirated versions.
"A lot of it is coming from something called bit torrent, where people download individual pieces from different users and create what's known as the swarm," said Seattle attorney Richard Symmes, who's leading the charge against the downloaders.
Washington's tech savvy population is now a copyright litigation hotbed, and a studio is coming to town to track down those who have illegally downloaded its movies.
Symmes said the move isn't about greed, but about the studios being fairly compensated so they can pay their employees.
A private company has managed to get the IP addresses of the local offenders, and local Internet providers are now being subpoenaed to get the names of those subscribers.
Symmes said anyone who has illegally downloaded movies could be in for a court battle.
"It would probably be more expensive to go ahead and fight this rather than take a nominal settlement and just make this go away," he said.
Symmes expects the IP list to grow as other film studios join in.
Streaming sites are the answer . Or get a VPN
Tell me why it's illegal to download a movie over using netflix?
@DoctorPC It depends on exactly how it's downloaded and who made it available. Sometimes content owners truly don't want their stuff made available on the internet. If you use Netflix, presumably you have a subscription so the content owner is getting paid when you watch the movie. But frequently in the types of cases discussed here, the content owners are actually the ones who make the files available for download just so they can go after the very people who then download it. In a criminal context this would be considered entrapment. I think the same defense applies in copyright infringement cases.
So what if I use my neighbors unsecured WiFi to download it all? Go to the library and do it? Starbucks? Yea..tracing IP addresses is not enough evidence. They need to get a search warrant and have the police and seize people's actual computers to prove it. They need to collect the same quality of evidence required for a criminal case in a court of law. IP addresses can be spoofed all too easily. All someone has to do is claim the TOR network used your IP randomly for someone else who was using the TOR network. So go blow it out your a*s Mr. Symmes.
@Ankle Biter There's actually a great case going on down in Los Angeles right now where a judge basically said exactly that. There is a hearing on March 11 where the judge is expected to drop the hammer on the plaintiff and its lawyers. The drama down there is huge.
Ever heard of Graboid? It's fantastic. I can't tell you the last time I paid for an overpriced movie ticket.
I am trying to remember the last time I downloaded a movie... dam I cannot remember - I use Netflix - and amazon prime and just watch tv shows on those services.. I have ripped all my DVD's to files so I can stream them in my house without the DVD player... you would be surprised how much space you can save if you don't have to house shelves of disks and instead just have a good storage solution
Even when I was buying DVD's most I ever paid was $14.99 or $50 for a series box set | just like with games I get from Steam... if they are cheap enough I buy them. If they are too much I don't... I have not bought a single game for my 360 in gosh...two years and I even canceled my XBox live and bought a roku to connect to my Netflix / amazon prime accounts as $60 a month for Gold was a rip-off especially when I was not even playing games with the console and instead just watching movies with it ...$50-$70 for one game no thank you!
 Ripping your DVDs is a federal copyright offense under the DMCA (again, for the time being.).  http://publicknowledge.org/blog/united-states-copyright-office-ripping-illega But it appears that MPAA may recognize that if they want people to watch their content, they probably need to let you do that and may not persue it. But then again, they created the Rent-Seeking services like UltraViolet where you can sign up to pay again and again for the priviledge of watching the movie you bought already. This is another bullet point for your letters to your reps. Fix the DMCA to make this allowed, clearly delineated in law and predictable.
interesting. what happened to the six strike law that just passed? If you are caught pirating, you get six stikes, and after the sixth, then you are supposed to be getting into trouble... So they just passed this law and are now ignoring it?
http://lifehacker.com/5986961/the-copyright-alert-system-how-the-new-six-strikes-anti+piracy-program-works
@Pikkon Why should you be allowed to break the law 6 times - and get away Scot free? This is a crime, don't want to pay the toll, don't do the crime.
@OrcasThunder @PikkonÂ
more importantly, when is it illegal? Is it illegal to download a tv series that hasn't been on the air for years or even decades? What about movies shown on tv, or released on dvd?  or pay per view?
To just say it's illegal is a pretty wide net, the public need to be educated with specifics on what or when is it illegal... Â
 I for one would like to know the details just to avoid any possible issues.
@DoctorPC@OrcasThunder@Pikkon I'm not an export on copyright law, but I would assume that it is illegal to copy any work - art, writing, even a protected concept, as long as they are under copyright. And that amount of time depends on the age and type of art. Unless you KNOW that it is in the Public Domain, assume it is covered by copyright. In fact, I'd have to check but I assume that even what we post here is covered - just not sure if it belongs to the poster or the forum.Â
For more factual info, try http://libguides.gallaudet.edu/content.php?pid=47250&sid=348998 and http://sbinfocanada.about.com/cs/legalmatters/a/websitetheftjb.htm.
As I understand it, almost every movie and film and video made for publication is currently subject to copyright protection. Images - paintings, drawings and such - from before the 20th Century are usually in the Public Domain...an example would be "The Great Wave off Kanagawa" by the Japanese artist Hokusai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Wave_off_Kanagawa.
@OrcasThunder @Pikkon But felony fraud is only $35 a pop now. http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=217596
@OrcasThunder @georgef @PikkonShow me a judge or a lawyer saying that, you won't... as far the the moral stand, lets see if we can go for third time's the charm... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4
@georgef @OrcasThunder @Pikkon It's still stealing, which is wrong.
@georgef @OrcasThunder @PikkonSo where's the county or federal prosecutors willing to charge? I don't see them mentioned in the article...
@OrcasThunder @PikkonQuit repeating that it's a crime, copyright infringement is not a crime. Not the kind they're talking about. It's a civil tort, which is why there will be civil lawsuits. For it to be a crime you have to be doing it as a criminal enterprise and earn a threshold of money from doing it.Â
Learn basic law before you shoot your mouth off.Â
@OrcasThunder @NW-EconomistHere is the "moral" POV, this is simple enough for a child, lets see if YOU can get it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4
@NW-Economist Stealing is stealing - try learning basic morals before making an arse out of yourself.
YouTube. No need for bit torrent.
@ETSubmarinerÂ
again, what's legal versus illegal? uploading a recent movie release probably falls into the illegal slot, what about tv shows or movies 2, 5 10 years old?
Sooner or later this will alll be resolved. In the meantime though the terrorists in the studios will continue. They want people to believe that when you buy one of their products that you don't own it. They think we're just renting these items. Once you buy ANY product you own it and can do whatever you want with it. If you want to make spare copies and pass them out to your friends there's nothing illegal about that. A lot of us out there download the poor versions of the movies on line and then if we like the movie we go buy the dvd or blu ray. They just can't seem to get themselves into the 21st century.Â
@Blindman"when you buy one of their products that you don't own it."
The key word in that statement is "Their"...as in it is THEIR work that you are stealing.Â
That's part of the conditions of sale - that you are buying a license to view it. Don't like the conditions, don't watch the video.
@OrcasThunder @BlindmanIt's not stealing. Stealing is when you take something and someone else loses it. Like taking a purse, or a watch, etc. It's not even a crime, it's a civil issue.Â
@OrcasThunder @NW-Economist @BlindmanJust because you think the word "stealing" means something that the rest of intelligent society doesn't agree with doesn't mean we'll ever care about your special definition.
Troll elsewhere.Â
@NW-Economist @OrcasThunder @Blindman BS - stealing is stealing...If you tap into your neighbor's cable service, you aren't harming them, right? But you are still stealing their service, plus from the cable company.
This lawyer is blatantly ignoring the WSBA Rules of misconduct and getting away with it...
If you would like to file a complaint here's the link:Â https://pro.wsba.org/onlinegrievance/onlinegrievance.aspx
Also, here's the link to the rules he is breaking:Â http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules/?fa=court_rules.rulesPDF&groupName=ga&setName=RPC
 Rule 8.4 Misconduct, subsections C, D, E
It's funny, a lawyer breaking the law...
@Mihai CelRau I'm not so sure that your analysis of that rule is as accurate as you think it is. First, the rules of professional responsibility are not "laws." Second, I don't exactly see the blatant violation yet.
Not that a give a flying (*&(&) about overpaid actors not getting their cut, but honestly, I can think of only a handful of movies that are truly watching anyways. All the rest? Downloading them just wastes perfectly good bandwidth.   Take that to the bank Hollywood.......
Dear Hollywood: quit trying to shove Tyler Perry, Katharine Heigl, and Adam Sandler down our throats, and people might go to the movies again. Love, Seattle.
@KOMO_SapiensÂ
but, but Katharine is actually sort of nice to look at, just turn off the volume. :)
@KOMO_Sapiens Dear citizens of the internet: Please stop writing sardonic statements in letter form. It demeans us all. Love, customerservice
@customerservice Lame. Thanks for playing, though.
That Seattle attorney might be in violation of the WSBA's Rules of Professional Conduct. For him to go on TV and try and coerce people to settle and not fight the suits has wound up getting lawyers in other states with similar rules disbarred. I hope this last grab for money is worth the possible loss of his legal license....
@NW-Economist agreed. Anyone who wishes to file a complaint against this lawyer please do so here: https://pro.wsba.org/onlinegrievance/onlinegrievance.aspx
@customerservice @NW-Economist I think you need to state more specifics on this matter. From my reading/viewing he's just stating free legal advice.
Big deal, so they catch the punters and noobs on peer-to-peer. That's easy, your url is hanging out there for all to see, only an amateur still uses open systems like that. The real action is untraceable, and . . . wait, I almost forgot the first rule of fight club.
Still can't watch a DVD without having to sit through several minutes of their unskippable "If you'd pirated this movie you'd be watching it right now" FBI warnings and trailers.
@therunner You just need to rip the dvd on to your pc and do a bit of editing and burn a new copy, sans the warnings and commercials. Â It's fairly easy.
@therunner The best thing is buying the bluray and then ending up pirating or ripping the iso and then cutting that BS out so you can actually enjoy your movie.
It is called FILE-SHARING not stealing. It's not like I took it from someone else. This is like them punishing everyone who burned cd copies in the 90's. Get real.
The funny thing about this is the lawyer ominously states: ""It would probably be more expensive to go ahead and fight this rather than take a nominal settlement and just make this go away," he said."
Hilarious. This is the same crap the RIAA tried a decade ago. Funny how those lawsuits stopped? Right around the time that torrenting was getting huge. Tht's because there's been no strong, consistent caselaw surrounding IP addresses or bit-torrent. Because of torrenting's distributed nature, some courts have determined that no single party can be held responsible for uploading, and downloading amounts to gathering bits of data from all over the net.
Fearing a major precedent that would exempt torrenting from copyright violation, rights holders started going after ISPs, and ISPs who had lots of money told them to pound sand and many stopped giving info out.Â
Most of the time these blowhards are fishing for scared people to give them money in a quick settlement. This reminds me of a malpractice lawyer who'd call up doctors and threaten to sue if they didn't settle, if they didn't settle right away he'd hang up and turn to the client and say "sorry, I don't think we have a case." Other similarities include the fake amnesty program that the RIAA tried a few years ago. That was almost a Darwin-award situation. The RIAA sent out "amnesty cards" to people which promised not to sue them if they admitted to file sharing, when the people did, the RIAA sued them and used the cards as "evidence."Â http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20030910/0259244.shtml
Bottom line: if you get a letter you may very well simply ignore it, though you might want to talk to an attorney. Usually when these bottom-feeder copyright trolls get pushback they fly away looking for easier targets.Â
As to why this is happening in the first place? Supply and demand. When filesharing first came out the media industry had two choices: embrace it and lower the gigantic profit margins they'd been pulling in for decades, or fight it as long as they could and try and pull as much money as they could out of the system and in legal tactics before the technology finally defeated and buried them. Unfortunately the media groups chose option #2, and technology is well on its way to making them irrelevant.Â
@NW-Economist"Bottom line: if you get a letter you may very well simply ignore it"
And of course you have a license to practice law?Â
@OrcasThunder @NW-EconomistIs there some reason you chopped off the second half of my sentence? You know, the part that would make your comment look foolish?
@OrcasThunder @NW-EconomistSince you are too thick to get it, let me do it for you. The sentence that you chopped up read in full: Bottom line: if you get a letter you may very well simply ignore it, though you might want to talk to an attorney.
Of course, anyone with a brain will have read it before they saw your response and will be laughing at your response I'm sure.
You are a joke.Â
@NW-Economist@OrcasThunder"Is there some reason you chopped off the second half of my sentence?"
Yes. It stands alone, despite any equivocations you might offer to negate it.
You are trying to say "If you can't do the time, don't get caught".
@NW-Economist"embrace it and lower the gigantic profit margins they'd been pulling in for decades"
Hmmm...a Devout Conservative arguing against a company making profits?
What's next, the NRA admitting it is a shill for the gun industry?Â
Aren't persons like the companies and CEO's ENTITLED to their large bonuses and profits?Â
Oh, I see - it's "wrong" because they are taking money from YOU for doing something you think you have a "right" to do...
@OrcasThunder @NW-EconomistIt's not about what's right, it's supply and demand. If their price is too high then it spurs demand for ways to circumvent traditional methods of acquiring the product. If CDs had reduced in price when the technology became available then its likely it never would have developed or as much as it did. Nothing right or wrong about this. Necessity is the mother of invention. Fighting the tech merely fueled demand for alternate acquisition methods. Learn basic economics.
@OrcasThunder @NW-EconomistI told you, this is about technology and innovation.Â
In your stupid example, the high price of gas has led to technological innovation in the forms of biofuel, hybrids, and EVs. It has also led to people seeking to build home made wind turbines and solar panels because oil for heating is expensive.
Really you make this too easy....
@NW-Economist@OrcasThunder"It's not about what's right, it's supply and demand. If their price is too high then it spurs demand for ways to circumvent traditional methods of acquiring the product."
So...if you think that the price of gas is too high, you feel that you should be able to drill into the gas station's tanks to get it cheaper?
Wrong is wrong - how is that so hard to grasp?Â
Perhaps you favor printing your own money, it's so much easier than actually working for it? And who does it hurt, really? Oh, the person trying to sell a product for a profit - hey, that's OK...right?
After all, you work hard, don't take government money, so you feel that you are entitled...?