Lawmaker wants state to get more money from legal pot
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SEATTLE (AP) - A key lawmaker is proposing changes to Washington's new law legalizing marijuana, saying the state can squeeze a lot more money out of people who want to participate in the recreational pot marketplace.
Rep. Christopher Hurst, an Enumclaw Democrat who leads the House committee that oversees cannabis, said Tuesday the state will be leaving "money on the table" unless it increases the fees required to obtain a license to grow, process or sell marijuana.
Initiative 502, passed by voters last fall, legalized the possession and private use of cannabis by adults 21 and over, and called for the state to set up a marijuana distribution system. Voters in Colorado passed a similar measure.
Hurst introduced a bill Tuesday that would amend the law by creating a new "certificate" to be issued by the Liquor Control Board, which is setting rules for the industry, as a precursor to obtaining a license. It would require the board to set the price of the certificate at no less than fair market value. It's unclear what fair market value would be, he said, but he estimated it could range from $1,000 in a rural town like Forks to $250,000 in downtown Bellevue - perhaps $50 million or more in additional state revenue this year.
The state is facing a "billion-dollar mandate" to improve education spending, Hurst said in a news release, and "it would be foolish to leave money on the table in the face of a daunting number like that."
As passed, I-502 requires a $250 application fee and $1,000 annual license renewal. Hurst's bill would allow the board to charge a reduced price for the annual renewals, in line with the $250 annual renewal fee for liquor licenses.
The bill also would allow marijuana businesses to be located closer to parks, daycares and schools - 500 feet instead of 1,000. Hurst said the 1,000-foot rule is too strict because it could preclude pot shops from opening in urban areas, thus forcing people to travel farther to buy pot. That could cut sales and state tax revenue while fostering a black market.
Amending a voter-approved initiative in the first two years after passage requires a two-thirds majority in the Legislature. Hurst said he didn't think the measure should be controversial, but Alison Holcomb, the author of I-502 and the drug policy director at the American Civil Liberties Union of Washington, said she had concerns.
"It might be a bit premature because we haven't had a chance to see how this fledgling marijuana industry might unfold," she said.
Jacking up the cost of participating in the legal market is especially troubling, she said. At public forums on the new law around the state, small-time marijuana growers and would-be sellers have urged the Liquor Control Board to make it possible for them to get involved.
"One of the goals of I-502 is to bring the illicit market under regulatory oversight," Holcomb said. "There are hundreds of people who are growing illicitly and who want to participate in the regulated market. If we make it prohibitively expensive for them to do so, they're going to continue to grow illicitly."
Hurst told reporters in a news conference that such economic barriers will keep fly-by-night operators and criminals out of the market. There's no place for the small-time growers Holcomb referenced to get licenses because they've been breaking the law, likely will continue to break the law, and probably don't have the money to provide the security and stability the Liquor Control Board is looking for, he said.
Instead, he suggested they could go to work for more reputable license-holders.
By contrast, a number of medical marijuana dispensaries have positioned themselves well for a recreational pot license by voluntarily paying state business and sales taxes, Hurst said.
"They were doing the best they could to comply with a very, very complex law," he said. "But if you've been growing illegal marijuana for the last year or 10 years or 30 years and not paying taxes and violating all these laws, why would we give any of those people a certificate? ... Why reward bad behavior with a gold mine?"
Holcomb also argued that increasing the cost of doing business risked inviting big commercial interests to the market - a point echoed in a letter the ACLU and several local public health and substance abuse prevention organizations sent to the Liquor Control Board on Tuesday.
"Our experience with tobacco and alcohol cautions us that opening the door to large enterprises would run the risk of aggressive marketing and promotion of marijuana use generally, which increases the likelihood of increased marijuana use by all people, especially youth," the letter said.
Hurst said that's not an issue because the law already includes marketing restrictions.
The groups included the Children's Alliance, the Science and Management of Addictions Foundation, the Asian Pacific Islander Coalition Against Tobacco and the University of Washington's Innovative Programs Research Group.
They said placing conservative limits on marijuana production will help make sure pot isn't diverted to minors or out of state, and strict advertising limits will minimize exposure to those under 21.
The groups also urged the board to require that labels on pot products inform people about how to get drug counseling if they need it, including the number for the "marijuana use public health hotline" created by the initiative, and warn about the dangers of driving while stoned.
New marijuana tax revenues are directed to the state general fund and local budgets, as well as substance-abuse prevention, research, education and health care.
Marijuana remains illegal under federal law, and the U.S. Department of Justice has not said whether it will sue in an effort to block the licensing schemes.
Rep. Christopher Hurst, an Enumclaw Democrat who leads the House committee that oversees cannabis, said Tuesday the state will be leaving "money on the table" unless it increases the fees required to obtain a license to grow, process or sell marijuana.
Initiative 502, passed by voters last fall, legalized the possession and private use of cannabis by adults 21 and over, and called for the state to set up a marijuana distribution system. Voters in Colorado passed a similar measure.
Hurst introduced a bill Tuesday that would amend the law by creating a new "certificate" to be issued by the Liquor Control Board, which is setting rules for the industry, as a precursor to obtaining a license. It would require the board to set the price of the certificate at no less than fair market value. It's unclear what fair market value would be, he said, but he estimated it could range from $1,000 in a rural town like Forks to $250,000 in downtown Bellevue - perhaps $50 million or more in additional state revenue this year.
The state is facing a "billion-dollar mandate" to improve education spending, Hurst said in a news release, and "it would be foolish to leave money on the table in the face of a daunting number like that."
As passed, I-502 requires a $250 application fee and $1,000 annual license renewal. Hurst's bill would allow the board to charge a reduced price for the annual renewals, in line with the $250 annual renewal fee for liquor licenses.
The bill also would allow marijuana businesses to be located closer to parks, daycares and schools - 500 feet instead of 1,000. Hurst said the 1,000-foot rule is too strict because it could preclude pot shops from opening in urban areas, thus forcing people to travel farther to buy pot. That could cut sales and state tax revenue while fostering a black market.
Amending a voter-approved initiative in the first two years after passage requires a two-thirds majority in the Legislature. Hurst said he didn't think the measure should be controversial, but Alison Holcomb, the author of I-502 and the drug policy director at the American Civil Liberties Union of Washington, said she had concerns.
"It might be a bit premature because we haven't had a chance to see how this fledgling marijuana industry might unfold," she said.
Jacking up the cost of participating in the legal market is especially troubling, she said. At public forums on the new law around the state, small-time marijuana growers and would-be sellers have urged the Liquor Control Board to make it possible for them to get involved.
"One of the goals of I-502 is to bring the illicit market under regulatory oversight," Holcomb said. "There are hundreds of people who are growing illicitly and who want to participate in the regulated market. If we make it prohibitively expensive for them to do so, they're going to continue to grow illicitly."
Hurst told reporters in a news conference that such economic barriers will keep fly-by-night operators and criminals out of the market. There's no place for the small-time growers Holcomb referenced to get licenses because they've been breaking the law, likely will continue to break the law, and probably don't have the money to provide the security and stability the Liquor Control Board is looking for, he said.
Instead, he suggested they could go to work for more reputable license-holders.
By contrast, a number of medical marijuana dispensaries have positioned themselves well for a recreational pot license by voluntarily paying state business and sales taxes, Hurst said.
"They were doing the best they could to comply with a very, very complex law," he said. "But if you've been growing illegal marijuana for the last year or 10 years or 30 years and not paying taxes and violating all these laws, why would we give any of those people a certificate? ... Why reward bad behavior with a gold mine?"
Holcomb also argued that increasing the cost of doing business risked inviting big commercial interests to the market - a point echoed in a letter the ACLU and several local public health and substance abuse prevention organizations sent to the Liquor Control Board on Tuesday.
"Our experience with tobacco and alcohol cautions us that opening the door to large enterprises would run the risk of aggressive marketing and promotion of marijuana use generally, which increases the likelihood of increased marijuana use by all people, especially youth," the letter said.
Hurst said that's not an issue because the law already includes marketing restrictions.
The groups included the Children's Alliance, the Science and Management of Addictions Foundation, the Asian Pacific Islander Coalition Against Tobacco and the University of Washington's Innovative Programs Research Group.
They said placing conservative limits on marijuana production will help make sure pot isn't diverted to minors or out of state, and strict advertising limits will minimize exposure to those under 21.
The groups also urged the board to require that labels on pot products inform people about how to get drug counseling if they need it, including the number for the "marijuana use public health hotline" created by the initiative, and warn about the dangers of driving while stoned.
New marijuana tax revenues are directed to the state general fund and local budgets, as well as substance-abuse prevention, research, education and health care.
Marijuana remains illegal under federal law, and the U.S. Department of Justice has not said whether it will sue in an effort to block the licensing schemes.
I had a prohibitionist ask me why I "NEEDED" Marijuana,,,
I said I don't NEED marijuana,,, just something to amuse my mind and calm my thoughts.
He said, well why don't you just get high on life.
In said I do and that marijuana is part of life, just like sex, it is part of life.
I mean, imagine if all there was in sex was just one position,, would that be "fun".
The prohibitionist looked at me all puzzled,,, There's more than one position???
Life,, enjoy all of it!
Let me guess, from a democrat
Christopher Hurst = Dumbsh!t - Make it so expensive that legal use is impossible and give the drug cartels a leg up. Â
I wonder why Hurst is so hot fired to hike up the prices - got a friend who might benefit if you create a stronger market for illegal sales? Let's investigate Hurst's background...seems shady to me...LOL
i think i'll keep using 'mr. x' down the street...bugs me though that he's a referral from my son...
We should invest in a clown suit for Christopher Hurst so he can dress appropriately when at work. Heck we should just buy them for all these politicians. They are certainly wasting our money on a lot worse.
These clowns are going to make this so expensive that the 'illegal' market will thrive.Â
Prices are already coming down since 502 passed, this is going to keep the black market in business.Â
I also find his comment about 'not rewarding' existing growers with certificates to be funny. Who does he think is going to grow all of this pot? The people who were growing it illegally are the ones with the skills to put a quality product on the market not some green horn who wakes up one morning and decides to grow weed!
It would require the board to set the price of the certificate at no less than fair market value. It's unclear what fair market value would be, he said, but he estimated it could range from $1,000 in a rural town like Forks to $250,000 in downtown Bellevue - perhaps $50 million or more in additional state revenue this year
Am I understanding this correctly .........................A Certificate could range from $1000 in Forks to $250,000 in Bellveue????
 Whats the difference where it's grown?? So what makes it more expensive to grow in Bellevue than in forks??? What a joke!
The State is gonna make this so expensive to grow legally that people won't buy it from the "Legal Growers" and they'll just keep getting it where they're getting it now.
A person with a large grow can easily make money at 100 an ounce. Think about it. One plant can yield ten pounds in the right setting and with proper care. That plant might cost 50 bucks to grow, estimated on the high side. There should be no problems getting this to a market where everyone is satisfied, except those who just plain oppose it. Greed seems to rule the day.
@Elvis "One plant can yield ten pounds". HUH???  If you get 1 pound per plant your a rockstar. 10 lbs per plant........... Not gonna happen.
Here's another one:Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZabtNlOe-Q
@SeahawkerI couldn't find the indoor grow video I was looking for but they were bigger than this plant:Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3PiQ2sM8gw
So they want  LOTS of money from pot to pay for education. If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious. What happened to all the lottery money they talked us all into approving...for the kids.
The state would like to tax EVERTHING more. This should come as noÂ
big surprise.
Rep. Christopher Hurst,
Please don't reveal anymore of your harebrained ideas concocted while you were high as a kite on God only knows what strain of crack. Yes, I said crack because if it were marijuana your proposals would be lucid.
Some people are not happy no matter what. Jesus Crust, some voters voted yes last November and now you can smoke a little pot. You were not satisfied with the Liquor Boards taxing the booze you drink like it was going out of style and now your not happy that commercial retailers are actually costing you more now and you made that choice...
 Yep no satisfying some people.
@nwlib The devil is in the details that are not clearly stated if they are stated at all when these propositions are on the ballot. What seems like good intentions some how get turned into a pile of crap by stupid politicians and/or greedy special interests.Â
"Dear Street Pot Dealers, even though the PEOPLE voted to legalize pot, and it was approved, our government is going to continue to try to over complicate things. The choice will end up being whether people buy from YOU, at fair market value, or from THEM at highly bloated and overtaxed prices. Even though it is now "legal" you will outsell them, that will make them upset, and they'll find ways to punish you for selling the now "legal" substance known as pot. Basically, if you boil it down, NOTHING has changed. Sell away. Maybe eventually, our government will be able to remove their heads from their rectums, but I doubt it."
fair market value. we all know what that is...$40 bucks for an 1/8th, etc. so i'm told.
"the state can squeeze a lot more money out of people"
With the 2/3 majority requirement to raise taxes gone, we're screwed.
@giveitarest That 2/3 majority requirement was overturnedÂ
by the courts AGAIN.
Just like the government to kill the market with over taxation before they even get started. What an idiot. They're already talking about a 30% tax on the grower, 30% on the distributor then 10% sales tax. That's not enough???
As long as the extra money comes directly from the seller's/buyer's, it's ok with me. Let them really get "smoked".
FORGET IT!!!
SAVE money by removing the profit from the drug runners and cartels and by NOT putting a bunch of people into prison (or killing them on misguided "undercover" operations like in FL) for having a PLANT that GROWS BY ITSELF!!!Â
DO NOT make marijuana a State "profit center". Just let it grow and let it go and bank the savings: that will be PLENTY!
"It's unclear what fair market value would be, he said, but he estimated it could range from $1,000 in a rural town like Forks to $250,000 in downtown Bellevue - perhaps $50 million or more in additional state revenue this year."Â Â Â
Are you kidding? So much for small businesses getting started.   It's bad enough we can't go to banks to secure small business loans, but now some dopey (pun intended) politician wants to make sure only the people who could afford to start a business are the already rich. Â
It costs enough to get the storefront, the product and the fees, licenses, etc.  Now he wants to add on a fairly arbitrary tax just to make sure they get more money from the richer areas? Let's say I have everything else setup, but now on top of everything else., I have to put up what in theory will be a lot of money before I can even pay for my retail license?
Get your hand out of my pocket, politician!  You're already getting 25% in tax.  No more. All this will do is force people to stick with the black market.    This is bad law and you should feel ashamed for coming up with something this business unfriendly.
@Magneto What other kind of thinking did you expect from politicians? I think if we took a THIRD GRADE classroom and put them in charge of the Govt., the "collective IQ's" of govt. would rise up DRAMATICALLY!
@S_Hunter @Magneto well, it appears the money is making him short sighted.  If his little "fair market value" thing goes through, a lot of people looking to develop and produce a business will walk away from it and then the black market will flourish.   His greed is slitting the throat of the golden goose (or is it the green goose?)
@Wolfeel @Magneto @S_Hunter " The state will be leaving "money on the table" unless it increases the fees required to obtain a license to grow, process or sell marijuana.'  How about the State not grab every last dollar they can figure out how to squeeze out of us.  If this grand experiment fails, it's due to small minded thinking like this.
@Magneto@S_Hunter Ya,25% at the retail level after 25% from the grower and another 25% from the processor plus the testing and security they are talking about requiring. With all that on top of actual growing processing and retailing expenses, I can't see the economic viability of this business even before "fair market value" idiocy.Â
@Magneto @S_Hunter HAHAHAHA I LOVE IT!
"the state will be leaving "money on the table"" this statement is a testament to how most elected officials and Government feel about our money. They don't really consider it our hard earned money, it's just their money they have not extorted from us.
It looks to me like law enforcement will be costing more to enforce all the laws and taxes on "legal" marijuana than it was before this perverted form of "legalization".
I suspect this is just the start of things to come. For years everytime they needed more money they put more taxes on gasoline, booze, and cigarettes. I don't see anything different happening with marijuana. I think before they write all this income into the budget they should wait to see if the Feds actually permit it. That's why this state is in trouble, they keep projecting/spending money they don't even have yet.
Many people will just be priced out and grow their own, as many already do. The "lawmakers" have lost thousands by over taxing privatized alcohol. Â Many people just leave the state and support Idaho and Oregon with their purchases... Â If the lawmakers really want to increase capital, DEAL WITH THE BILLIONS INVOLVED WITH THE FAILED 520 bridge! Â That would be a good start!
@Joy Whitney OH NO! An INTELLIGENT IDEA! <Â CLASS A FELONY in the eyes of the "Govt.">
Intelligent well-thought out idea's are FORBIDDEN in the political climate. All that accomplishes is getting things done!
aaaaaaand this junk is exactly why I didn't vote for this. they are making this way too complicated and way too expensive.
Hurst must not be an Enumclaw farmer. One of the first pot busts in that area was some farm kid selling plastic bags of alfalfa leaves. The cops didn't know much about it either.
@rockguy Hurst is a former cop
Let them eat cake
Sounds good. Tax the hell out of the cash cow!Â
@HallandOates The "cash cow" is on the grill!
Of course they do and guess who gets to pay...
"Hurst told reporters in a news conference that [high certificate costs] will keep fly-by-night operators and criminals out of the market. There's no place for the small-time growers Holcomb referenced to get licenses because they've been breaking the law, likely will continue to break the law, and probably don't have the money to provide the security and stability the Liquor Control Board is looking for, he said."
This guy is a first-class idiot. What Ms. Holcomb meant is that the illegal growers are going to continue growing and selling just as they are, and NOT getting licenses to do so, if the cost is too high. That is one thing the state is trying to reduce. If they add an extra fee that he suggests would be up to a quarter of a million dollars in Bellevue, he is all but ensuring that the illegal growers will continue to do exactly what they do now. Setting the cost that high would also cause the product to be priced higher, and that would be another incentive for the illegal market to continue flourishing: they can afford to charge cheaper. The fee he is suggesting would be self-defeating for I-502.
@spacegoddess"The fee he is suggesting would be self-defeating for I-502." I'm pretty sure that's his goal.
@spacegoddess Yep, you cut the little guy out of the system and they'll just keep it underground. Everyone wants to get rich these days including our legislatures. Keep taxes and fees reasonable and the volume of sales will give the state plenty of tax revenue.
Too much tax and the black market will continue to grow. Pun intended.
Say it isn't so, another democrat that wants to increase taxes add fees and grow government. Elections have consequences.
@al_wa Yes they do. Two un-needed wars, spending like a drunken soldier (he was left with a surplus), and the laughing stock of the world. Those 8 years of bush were awesome. Those were the days!Â
@HallandOates @al_wa obama must have thought they were needed.
@HallandOates @al_wa I agree, bush is the laughing stock, it took him eight years to spend what Obama has done in four. You have no chance to change the past but you do have a chance at the future.
@al_wa @HallandOates There's a big difference between failing to fix a problem, and creating the problem. Obama only failed because he spent four years trying to play nice with everyone and compromise. Now he's realized there's no point in playing nice with conservatives, they don't understand nice.