Local family faces bizarre problem of 'serial door knocker'
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GRAHAM, Wash. -- What seemed at first to be a simple problem soon spiraled into a complex, frightening situation for a local family.
Over and over, a stranger walked to the Gunderson family's home and knocked on the door. They didn't want her there, but she kept coming back.
When the Gundersons bought their first home, they expected peace, quiet and security.
But several times a day, a resident from a nearby adult assisted living facility knocks on their door incessantly.
The problem started on Christmas Eve. At the time, the Gundersons ran across the street to the Mashburn House and let them know their resident was wandering.
"Who knows what could happen to her? I'm kind of glad she's just coming to my house, so you know where she's going. Because if she changed her pattern, nobody would know where that woman is," said Kimberly Gunderson.
But as the visits multiplied, the family's patience quickly wore out. The woman didn't seem to need help, and her behavior spooked the family.
"You just took away all my rights of protecting my kids, raising my kids, having a happy day, going to work, leaving," Kimberly said.
Calls to the police did no good, and Kimberly said no one from the Mashburn House tried to make it stop.
"It was bad. She rang my doorbell for 27 minutes straight one time," Kimberly said.
Kimberly said advice ranged from "getting physical" with the woman to spraying her in the face with water.
"The facility is telling me to abuse her," Kimberly said. "That's four times they have told me to, in some way, physically assault her."
The owner of the Mashburn House, Patricia McKasson, denied recommending touching the woman, but she did say Kimberly should have "acted like (she was) pushing her."
The state blames McKasson for the problem. A Department of Social and Health Services investigation laid out "a history of significant, repeated or uncorrected violations" demonstrating the home's "inability or unwillingness to provide care."
The department ordered McKasson to hire another employee so someone could watch the resident at all times. Despite that order, the woman was back at the Gunderson's house within day, and even twice in one night.
Notes from the care provider show that staff had no idea the woman was missing. McKasson said the woman did not leave the facility on the night in question, but security footage shows the woman leaving while the extra staff member assigned to her was reclining in a chair, presumably sleeping.
The state revoked McKasson's license, but she's fighting the decision and still has residents during the appeal process.
"What is troubling and of concern is that a provider with actually quite a good history allowed things to go so appallingly bad for this particular individual," said Lori Melchciori of DSHS.
That leaves Gunderson family fearing what could happen next.
"Take care of your people. If your people mean everything to you, and that's your job, you are being paid to take care of them. Take care of your people," Kimberly said.
The woman has not been to the Gunderson's home lately, but the family said the magic of their new home has been ruined by an unwanted -- but very determined -- visitor.
McKasson said the woman has no family in the area. She said she's trying to help her find a new home where she'll receive the supervision she needs.
Over and over, a stranger walked to the Gunderson family's home and knocked on the door. They didn't want her there, but she kept coming back.
When the Gundersons bought their first home, they expected peace, quiet and security.
But several times a day, a resident from a nearby adult assisted living facility knocks on their door incessantly.
The problem started on Christmas Eve. At the time, the Gundersons ran across the street to the Mashburn House and let them know their resident was wandering.
"Who knows what could happen to her? I'm kind of glad she's just coming to my house, so you know where she's going. Because if she changed her pattern, nobody would know where that woman is," said Kimberly Gunderson.
But as the visits multiplied, the family's patience quickly wore out. The woman didn't seem to need help, and her behavior spooked the family.
"You just took away all my rights of protecting my kids, raising my kids, having a happy day, going to work, leaving," Kimberly said.
Calls to the police did no good, and Kimberly said no one from the Mashburn House tried to make it stop.
"It was bad. She rang my doorbell for 27 minutes straight one time," Kimberly said.
Kimberly said advice ranged from "getting physical" with the woman to spraying her in the face with water.
"The facility is telling me to abuse her," Kimberly said. "That's four times they have told me to, in some way, physically assault her."
The owner of the Mashburn House, Patricia McKasson, denied recommending touching the woman, but she did say Kimberly should have "acted like (she was) pushing her."
The state blames McKasson for the problem. A Department of Social and Health Services investigation laid out "a history of significant, repeated or uncorrected violations" demonstrating the home's "inability or unwillingness to provide care."
The department ordered McKasson to hire another employee so someone could watch the resident at all times. Despite that order, the woman was back at the Gunderson's house within day, and even twice in one night.
Notes from the care provider show that staff had no idea the woman was missing. McKasson said the woman did not leave the facility on the night in question, but security footage shows the woman leaving while the extra staff member assigned to her was reclining in a chair, presumably sleeping.
The state revoked McKasson's license, but she's fighting the decision and still has residents during the appeal process.
"What is troubling and of concern is that a provider with actually quite a good history allowed things to go so appallingly bad for this particular individual," said Lori Melchciori of DSHS.
That leaves Gunderson family fearing what could happen next.
"Take care of your people. If your people mean everything to you, and that's your job, you are being paid to take care of them. Take care of your people," Kimberly said.
The woman has not been to the Gunderson's home lately, but the family said the magic of their new home has been ruined by an unwanted -- but very determined -- visitor.
McKasson said the woman has no family in the area. She said she's trying to help her find a new home where she'll receive the supervision she needs.
PnutB I agree with you completely. The Gunderson's are horrible. I wish I could post the video that was recorded of them opening their door and yelling Get the F*** off my porch at the old lady. They were aware that the facility was having problems with getting the state to replace her, but instead of helping and working with the facility they aimed at making the facility look bad and left an elderly woman outside wandering. I agree that the facility should have alarms on the door, but if I was to see an old woman who had wandered off and needed help I would help her back home.
I was pretty disgusted when I saw this story on the news last night.Â
To the facility that has this elderly woman living there...Shame on YOU!  And be glad that is not my mother, because you'd have a lot more problems then a neighbor to deal with.
To the Gundersons..congrats on being horrific people. This has "ruined" your new home? Really? If this is the worst thing to happen in your life, consider yourself lucky. Instead of being disgustingly rude to a human being who has obvious dementia, maybe you could have walked her back to the facility, knocked on the door, and made sure she was safe. You are just as bad, if not worse, then the aides that let her walk out the door, because you left her to wander around, full well knowing she is not of her right mind. What downright monstrous, selfish people you are.Â
I'm also pretty disgusted at the other comments on how to treat this poor old woman. Well, Alzheimer's is an equal opportunity employer, so to speak...be careful how you talk about and treat others. This may be you someday.Â
Most of the people who were living in the facility had been living there for almost 10 years with no problems until this lady came to the home. The saddest thing about this whole situation is that the owner has only 6 months to live because she has cancer and now everything she has worked for has been taken away from her. Lawyers need to be hired and DSHS needs to be held responsible for their failure to address the issue when the owner reported the problem to them months before this aired on the news.
@prince22 I hope she has people to take over for her so her work continues.Â
Its sad that media can edit interviews and make something look worse then it should. What was failed to be shown on the news is that this woman was reported to dshs several times by the owner of the business because she knew that her facility wasn't a right fit for the elderly woman. dshs did nothing about it. She asked several times for her to be placed in a different facility and reported her harrassing the neighbors. dshs told her it was her problem. This happens to often when social workers ignore the needs of their clients because their case loads are too heavy and the client is the one that suffers. The caregivers did try to help her home and stop her from leaving several times and they were assaulted... but that wasn't shown on the news. They also didnt show the reports that staff documented when they did retrieve her and the Gunderson's never mentioned it. All the Gunderson's were out to do is get the facility shut down so that they wouldnt be bothered. If they were in it for the lady they wouldnt have sat back and recorded her outside for 27 mins ringing the doorbell. they would have helped her.
@prince22 I agree. Having worked in social services on both sides, getting the services needed is hard. I also think helping her would have been much better then whining to the news.Â
It's good to know that I could harass someone like this and get away with it. Now where did I put my list of enemies?
Just remember, Alzheimerâs doesn't play favorites and has no mercy. Anyone of us could find ourselves in the same situation as this elderly woman. The fact the the caregiver told this family to spray water in her face, or chase her off, or anything other than offering to come get her with a promise it wouldn't happen again speaks volumes.
 @Joy Johnson You are SO right. It is absolutely appalling that she would even suggest something like that! And makes you pretty sure how the others are treated there. That's just pure ignorance. Or how about her suggestion to just "act like she's pushing her". I hope the State checked her and the others for bruising when they went in there.
This is a truly heartbreaking story, and while I sympathize with the family that is being bothered by this women, I feel especially sorry for the poor little old lady. When I watch the video footage with the woman's face blurred, I cannot help but compare her to my wonderful mother who currently suffers from Alzheimer's. We have her at home and take great care of her but there may come a time when she will have to go to a home. Fortunately, we do not have to worry about her wondering. However, if she did I reverently hope that someone who encountered her would kindly and with compassion take her back to her home and then give the caregivers a stern talking to. Likewise, I would document each and very incident and then report the facility to the proper authorities. I would under no circumstances, even at 4:00am, yell at the elderly women. Is it a major inconvenience to have this person on your doorstep, undoubtedly, but instead of looking at it like a scary situation or taking your frustration out on her. Why don't you turn it into an opportunity to show compassion. If you lived next door to a family with a lot of children, and one of them showed up at your door, would you yell at the child? Or would take him or her home, probably with concern for their safety and tell the parents to keep a better eye on them. If the parents failed to supervise the child properly, you would probably report the parents to the proper authorities but you certainly wouldn't yell at a child, send a dog after the child or shot rock salt at it. I am not sure what it is like to live with mental illness or dementia but I can imagine there is a degree of panic that you have no memory of who you are, where you live and no one familiar in the home with you. I am so fortunate that my mother is so sweet, complacent and sedentary but I sincerely hope that I would have the same compassion and love for her or any elderly person that was in this situation. I applaud your efforts thus far and encourage you to try and keep your cool. There may be a reason she has chosen your home to come to, maybe it is really an opportunity knocking, an opportunity to show compassion to another human being, even though it is an inconvenience.
 @soccermama32 There's nothing stopping you from going to Graham and showing this old lady some compassion.
 @soccermama32 Very well said
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 @soccermama32 Beautiful post.  (Nice pun on opportunity possibly knocking at the end.)  A lot of people are completely overlooking the fact that this lady can't help how she is.  She is not trying to  maliciously harass anyone.  You made me think of an elderly woman who was in my dad's hospice facility.  She had terrible dementia.  She would call for the nurses constantly and they would whisk by her room because they simply didn't have the time to sit in there and answer questions.  A few times, I went and held her hand.  One day she looked at me with the most beautiful blue eyes and said, "Have you seen my mother and father today?"  I said I had not.  She expressed disappointment at that.  I said, "I think you might see them soon though."  She gripped my hand tighter and her entire face lit up and said, "Oh, won't that be WONDERFUL?"  Anyone with an ounce of compassion's heart would break for that lady, locked inside herself, and for her daughter who came in the evenings after work.  Dementia is  a cruel affliction, not only for the afflicted, but especially for their loved ones. Â
 @Doxie  @soccermama32 That is why they call it the "Long Goodbye". It is a heartbreaking as the name.
 @Doxie  @soccermama32 Yes, they can. I had one elderly lady call me by name in a serious fashion, and said she had something to talk to me about. I was a bit concerned.She was at the dinner table. I went to her and she very seriously said to me in her extremely slow cadence, "I am 80 years old. I have never seen one of these before (indicating the soft taco on her plate) how should I go about it?"
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Or this one: One elderly lady (hard of hearing), is sitting at the table loudly burping up a storm. Another elderly lady, rolls her eyes and turns her head a bit away from the burper and says, "I didn't know they allowed animals in here." In a completely deadpan, disgusted, ironic voice. BUT this is the lady who at one time came out with only a PJ top on and tissues wrapped around her feet for shoes.
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You must find the humor and beauty in it. It's just harder for the families because they knew them when they were not these people.
 @Thunder  @soccermama32 For sure.  Our granny actually got really funny and more fun with dementia, but that's probably rare.
@soccermama32 Well said!!!!!
The title or gist of this story is totally inappropriate. The article should be about how an elderly care home is not even providing staff who can monitor the status of their residents. Imagine if any family or daycare allowed a 3 year old to go out into the street? Yet daycare workers are paid a lot less than alzheimer's care facilities, where the cost is often $4000-6000/month. If they have several residents, and all the nurses are occupied, surely they could hire a teenager $10/hour to be a greeter who monitors the door and where everyone is.
 @Irmtraut Aides are paid around $10-$13 per hour. I do not know what Daycare workers make. But this home appears to be one that is an owner/operator i.e. she is the only "staff" hence the problem of little to no proper care or supervision. Most likely the owner is getting paid around $2000 or less a month for her care from DSHS (about $68 or less a day). And the WAC's say you can not hire under 18 y/o. She can have a volunteer, but who would do that? Sitting 'round the clock, wide awake at night too.
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I am not defending her, just stating that it is very complex and not at all what it seems. In reality this was not a safe home for this lady no matter what.
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You are absolutely correct though in that it should never have happened repeatedly. It was neglect. And not only should she lose her AFH license, but her professional license too.
What a horrible situation! While I do feel badly for the Gundersons, I am much more concerned about the elderly woman involved! Her paid caregivers were quite simply not not caring for her. Unfortunately, the Gundersons appear to be much more concerned about the intrusion on their life in their new home than in the welfare of this woman. Why are they hosting at an elderly woman who appears to have Alzheimer's or some other form of dementia? Take her into your home, give her a warm place to sit, a cup of tea and call Adult Protective Services if you get no assistance from the caregiver. It is that agency's job to protect elderly and/or disabled adults who are not being cared for in their current situation. Their number is 1-877--734-6277 or 1-800-737-7931 if the problem involves a vulnerable adult living in a nursing home, boarding home or adult family home.
 @nelslm2 They absolutely cannot take her into their home - then they assume liability for her. It may seem like the caring thing to do but with the level of disability this woman has, that is simply foolish advice. Thay have clearly done the right thing and contacted the proper authorities according to the article.Â
@justsaying @nelslm2 Wouldn't the Good Samartan law cover a case like this? At any rate, I would rather take her into my home and accept the risk than to turn her away and have her risk harm while wandering alone.
 @WhatdidIsay? You are absolutely correct. I could not live with myself if I sent a poor woman like this back outside to possible death. I would not do that to a child, and I definitely wouldn't do it to a woman with the mind of a child.
 @Silvia Sure you would!
Man, that is awful. Â That facility needs to alarm their doors, fence and lock their yard, AND hire a night nurse that stays awake to take care of this kind of thing. Â Truthfully, I think this woman is doing this simply because she is lonely because of no family in the area and is probably just looking for someone, anyone to talk to. Unfortunately she is picking on the Gundersons at 4:00am! Â Not good. Â I hope she either gets moved to another facility (and her family SHOWS UP TO HELP!) or the current place gets their act together. Â Kimberly Gunderson is right, what if she changed her nightly (or daily) walk patterns? Â She would be missing and no one would know where she has gone. Â
Invite her in and talk with her?? Doesn't have family and is probably pretty lonely. Might have some good stories, you never know.
 @G-Man Or she might be a loon who pulls out a butcher knife in the middle of her "I remember D-Day" story and stabs half the family to death.
@G-Man If she this persistant when they aren't answering the door, just think what inviting her in 1 time would do...
 @Surveyor1 Just start talking gibberish to her.Â
 @G-Man  @Surveyor1 Why? Why not talk gently to her, as you would to another human being, which is what she is, of course.
at this point i personally would lead the knocking woman back across the street and return her to the 'caregiver'. if i had to bang on her door and wake her up so be it. i would document each and every time, day/time and report each and every one to DSHS. am wondering why the 'care house' does not have alarms on the doors? unfortunately i guess if the 'care lady' gets hassled too much she may decide to restrain the wanderer so she isn't bothered by her getting out. i can see how this is frustrating to the neighbors but come on ---- the wander is in need of help - she's not some ax murderer. be kind - walk her back to the home - you're awake anyway ! how will you feel if she is found hurt or worse in a ditch somewhere ?
Bottom line make the care givers do their job. If this had only happened once, it could possibly overlooked, but after that they need to get after the caretakers and make them do their job. If they can't take proper care of their charges then close them down. The blame for this rests on their shoulders.
A few years ago a woman with dementia would call my cel # several times a week looking for someone else. It was frustrating, but at the same time I really felt for the poor woman. I ended up switching to a 3rd party voice mail system that, through a combination of features, would basically block her calls.
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This case would be even more trying. But like my situation, this poor woman can't help herself. The care facility needs to keep this resident on the property because not only is she bothering the neighbor, she is very vulnerable and could easily be hurt or killed.
Nuttier than a squirrel turd . . . .         . ...
"She has no family in the area."
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Gee, I wonder why. It's a shame that family just dumps their elderly off on the state like this...
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 @Gunderson I hope you get the peace and quiet you deserve now, if she comes back and you feel threatened you have every right to physically remove her from your property so remember that. That would be frightening especially considering the hours that this happened.
@Northriver @Gunderson Threatened by an elderly woman? You can't be serious.
I was harrassed this way once by a lady renting out the property next to us. She was sane in the sense of not being instituted, but she was crazy to come on OUR property and harrass me w/ incessent knocking/door-bell ringing. I called the cops and they were there w/in minutes as she was walking away after I told her I called the cops and will prosecute her for trespassing. They recommended I file an anti-harrasment order against her. She never bothered me after that.
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I don't understand why your town legally couldn't take action for breaking two laws??? This baffles me. Your city police needs a new sheriff in town.
 @Nordic Moxie Graham doesn't have "city police"....they have Pierce County Sheriff. Out there, it takes over 30 mins to arrive on a good day.
 @Gunderson Mrs. Gunderson, you've shown great restraint and consideration for someone who has some serious life challenges.  You clearly make a good neighbor to live next too.  - Cheers!
restraining order............then they can just have her arrested
 @wordsofwisdom To get an actual restraining order you have to prove to a judge that the person is an imminent danger, and it has to be more than hearsay. There has to be provable events. And they would not arrest her. They would take her back to her home or to a local hospital to be checked out.
@wordsofwisdom  If that was true , why didnt the police arrest her after she was given a verbal not to come on our property again, and stated she was treaspassing?
 @Gunderson A restraining order holds a greater level of legal power than a verbal warning from a police officer. Â
 @Vertically Inclined That may be true but I am certain that the knocker may not understand the implications of a restraining order and the police can only hold her for so long before releasing her back to the care of the assisted living home.Â
Seems simple to me, fence, locked gate.
our front yard is not fenced in just like every other home. So I should pay 2000.00 plus dollars to fence in my yard, just to stop her from coming to my home . The facility should have stopped this woman they are her care providers.
 @Gunderson I really feel for your plight and commend you for your restraint and compassion so far. Obviously this care facility is negligent and needs to take some corrective action.
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My dad once spent some time recovering from a surgery in a place that also cared for people with dementia. To leave, you had to type a four digit code to open the door. The code was next to the door in long form ("one two three", not 123). so it was easy for guests to open, but complicated enough to keep in residents with reduced cognitive abilities. Something like that might work here.
 @GundersonÂ
If this "home" wants to have a state license they should have to have a fence and gate. I have seen many places that "house" people who are mentally incompetent. They have fences and a gate that is controlled from inside. If they can't fence the place they should not have a license.
 @Gunderson When I read fence, locked gate.......I assumed Alex was refering to the "Home".....not yours.Â