McGinn proposes high-tech solution to Seattle gun violence
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SEATTLE -- Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn is pitching a high-tech solution to fighting crime, but the plan could become a casualty of the city's budget battles.
Gun crimes are up citywide this year. McGinn thinks a gunshot locator system could offer a quick fix to the problem, but not all city leaders are convinced.
The sound of gunfire has gotten more frequent in neighborhoods like Rainier Valley. Police and city leaders want solutions to the ever-growing gun problem, as do the people who live in work in the neighborhood.
Davie Hay sees plenty of gun crime outside her Rainier Valley donut shop.
"It's terrifying to know you can walk out the door and be in the mix of a drive-by shooting," she said.
McGinn has taken notice and is pushing a high-tech solution in his city budget proposal. His idea is to install 52 gunshot locator units that use microphones and cameras. When shots are fired, the system triangulates the sound to zero in on the location.
The cameras also snap crime scene photos while officers race to the scene.
"So we believe it's an important tool that can help the police respond quickly to gunshots fired in the city," McGinn said.
The plan is now in the hands of the City Council, where members are still studying its merits.
"You weigh back and forth," said Councilwoman Sally Clark. "Should I be spending that money on a new police recruit, should I invest it in this system?"
The network also raises civil liberty concerns and would be expensive. It would cost about $1 million up front and then hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to maintain it.
But in areas racked by gun violence, some people feel it's an investment worth the price.
"Having the technology in this neighborhood would definitely, hopefully lower the gun violence," Hay said.
The council is still deciding what programs to fund, and a decision about the gunshot locator system could come in two to three weeks.
Gun crimes are up citywide this year. McGinn thinks a gunshot locator system could offer a quick fix to the problem, but not all city leaders are convinced.
The sound of gunfire has gotten more frequent in neighborhoods like Rainier Valley. Police and city leaders want solutions to the ever-growing gun problem, as do the people who live in work in the neighborhood.
Davie Hay sees plenty of gun crime outside her Rainier Valley donut shop.
"It's terrifying to know you can walk out the door and be in the mix of a drive-by shooting," she said.
McGinn has taken notice and is pushing a high-tech solution in his city budget proposal. His idea is to install 52 gunshot locator units that use microphones and cameras. When shots are fired, the system triangulates the sound to zero in on the location.
The cameras also snap crime scene photos while officers race to the scene.
"So we believe it's an important tool that can help the police respond quickly to gunshots fired in the city," McGinn said.
The plan is now in the hands of the City Council, where members are still studying its merits.
"You weigh back and forth," said Councilwoman Sally Clark. "Should I be spending that money on a new police recruit, should I invest it in this system?"
The network also raises civil liberty concerns and would be expensive. It would cost about $1 million up front and then hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to maintain it.
But in areas racked by gun violence, some people feel it's an investment worth the price.
"Having the technology in this neighborhood would definitely, hopefully lower the gun violence," Hay said.
The council is still deciding what programs to fund, and a decision about the gunshot locator system could come in two to three weeks.
These systems sound all find and dandy until you see them using them for things that they were not intended. Just like traffic cams, they will find some other way to pull cash out of your wallet. Not to mention gangs have been able to confuse them by lighting strings of firecrackers off and loud horns to hide attempted drive by's.
This idea sounds very dumb to me. I don't see how this will slow down gun crimes or stop them. This system will have way too many bugs. I don't see it worth anyone's time and money. what makes more sense is tighter patrols in high crime areas. I have no idea what this system would cost. but considering its going to require Power and some sort of data connection. tells me each unit could have a monthly cost of minimum of 150.00 with just those 2 items. Then you have the hardware to install and calibrate and purchase. Oh an lets not forget maintenace fee's too. you add it all up. I'll bet when you had the hardware maintenace to these things. The monthly cost per a unit will be about 350 to 500 a month. With 52 of them that would be 18,200 a month on the low side. I would think you could get 2 to 4 cops a month to run extra patrols for the same amount. Â
 @Bizquick Actually, it is a pretty cool system if you do some research into it. I read about it a few months ago, and it seems to be working for many other high crime areas. It actually helps law enforcement react quicker to gun violence. Currently, we rely upon bystanders or neighbors to report shots fired. Then, police have to arrive on scene, and try to narrow down the exact location of the shots fired... this system is pretty amazing at it's calibration abilities with regard to location, but I am not sure if it is worth the price. I would need to see a business case on response time/time spent investigating shootings vs. time saved using this system. The url for the only system I am aware of is http://www.shotspotter.com/. There may be copy cat systems by now?
This announcement was made at least a month ago and yet KOMO is recycling the story as if it is a brand new idea from Mayor McFuzzFace.
just put more police officers in the gun shooting areas. spending $1 million and several thousands each year on this system is stupid. Look at the bank stick ups, they have cameras and it doesn't seem to catch many bank robbers. why put in  cameras that costs more then having more police on the street?
 @32jim2 It's more about being able to respond to the exact scene of the crime within minutes, not just about catching the suspects on video. The video is a bonus, if you can get plates or faces, but just narrowing down the exact location of a gun shot can be difficult with re: to how sounds travel. Look it up: (safe for work) http://www.shotspotter.com/.Â
Nothing like shutting the gate after the horse has ran out of the corral. By the time they detect a shot, its already too late.
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Even more proof that anti gun laws do nothing.
 @JeepRex what is your solution?
More patrols
@BocaBob According to shotspotter.com (the main producer of said technology),
"The city of Rochester has seen a 43% reduction in gunfire since the system went live... Within 48 hours of turning the system on we had our first felony arrest."
Rochester Police Department, Rochester, NY
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Some thing to think about. It also allows for increased response time to gun fire. We just have to determine if it's worth the cost?
This is a new level of stupidity. A camera will not stop the bullet, or the person shooting the gun. It will not be a deterrent because most idiots shooting up the city don't think when they pull the trigger. What a huge waste of money...but that's McDimwitt for you...
So long as Mayor McCheese takes a hands off approach to the rampant petty crime that happens every day in this city, no one should be surprised that violent crime is escalating.
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God forbid they arrest the folks dealing drugs in the open downtown every day.
 @Jerome O'Neil Or dealing out in the open ANYWHERE, for that matter.
Wiki: "Sound Ranging" Now this is what is needed.
Oh boy...sounds like McGinn just got a big campaign contribution from Amalgamated Camera and Microphone.
Before you become an overpriced big brother, why not use the tools you already have. Do random searches of parolee/probationer's houses and cars on a more frequent basis. If they have a gun, add 10 years and throw them back in the klink.
How about we actually keep the criminals in prison and jail, instead of letting them out way before there sentence is up. I just heard yesterday that someone with a life sentence was released yesterday.
 @hinterland Ding Ding Ding Correct answer, here, folks. Our courts and jails are a joke. Make it hurt and they won't be back.
This really worked well in Glendale AZ about 15 years ago.  Made it  a much better and safer place to be.
"Civil liberty concerns"? If locating the sound of gunfire violates civil liberty, the definition needs to be changed.
 @Eichler4 has to deal with the cameras, not the audible technology.
Here's a better suggestion, ..
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stop preventing "citizens" from owning, possessing hand guns, stop threatening these "citizens" with prosecution for "defending themselves" with these guns, and you WILL SEE A DROP in crime... you get that.. YOU WILL SEE SEE A DROP IN CRIME, because the thugs will learn "instant death" is the PENALTY! Â It's pretty friggin' simple folks!!!Â
 @blaster what on earth are you talking about, Van Winkle?
isent it obvious they dont care if the camera gets their photo, more police r the only thing thats going to curb the violence
 @maggie112 And if you do some research, you will see that this actually helps police respond quicker to the actual scene of the crime... not to the house down the street that reported the gun shots, because sound travels, folks. It's not just about the photo, it's about assisting police to make their job more efficient. Check it out: http://www.shotspotter.com/technology
Here's a suggestion for a "low tech" solution to drastically reduce "gun violence":Â ROPE.
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"More "thugs" hangin'... less "gangs" bangin'..."
 @TheTruncheon ....unfortunately we have this little bleeding heart group called the ACLU who are FAR more concerned about the "pain & suffering" murderers would endure while on the rope.
AS mentioned once before, and like you perhaps, I would love to see 'em on a short rope and/or drop...watch 'em do the death dance for a minute or two while they think about the pain & suffering they put their victims through, and televise it to closed circuit TV's in all the jails & prisons with a crawler at the bottom of the screen asking "Are you next"?
Did I over state that?
 @Sydthepiper If anything is televised it should also include a detailed memorial about the innocent victims, the brutality of their death, and what their families and friends have lost at the hands of the convicted murderer. In any case, public hangings should be brought back for this kind of vile murdering filth... starting with Tuba Man's killers, and moving right on down the line... even old Gary Ridgway should come out to face the noose as he WOULD ALREADY HAVE IN A SANE SOCIETY.
 @TheTruncheon  @Sydthepiper A visual reminder (ala Youtube replay) could very well be a good reminder one what will happen to those who kill someone else in cold blood.
we have other problems we need to solve with our police first.
Waste of money and the money isn't theirs. It will do nothing to solve crimes are prevent gun shootings. It only finds the general location of the gun shots. 911 will know in seconds where it came from when they get phone calls from the area. So the device solves nothing. The answer is getting public involvement in solving the crimes. But know you have people so afraid of a corrupt police force that they will refuse to become involved. Clean up the dirty cop situation first.
At least give it a try. Actually seems like a really good idea.
 @Smokin Bear give it a try?  a MILLION just to start and HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS to maintain PER YEAR.  Â
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Once these things are started millions change hands before these mistakes can be stopped. Â
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And usually the tax payers lose (and are screwed) in the end. Â
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@Andrew Bush - Relax cowboy: Stop screaming. Heard ya.
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Could you provide a credible source for your cited costs? Or were you just hollering for fun? LOL
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Personally, I don't enjoy watching people being shot and killed or violently mugged on the street and ambulances racing through town, but if that's your thing, enjoy.Â
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The question is, do you have an alternative solution for this problem? One that has been proven to work and budgeted for cost control so that people like yourself will not block it before it's been implemented?
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Batting away what could be a solution without solid evidence that it absolutely will not work is a bit foolish in my opinion. Â
While it is certainly an Orwellian solution and I'm no fan of "Big Brother" technology, our society has degraded to the point of necessity for the safety of non-violent citizens.Â
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 @Andrew Bush  @Smokin Bear Hell just froze solid. I agreed with Mr Bush!!!
 @KittySmasher  @Andrew Bush  @Smokin Bear Me too. Proof that God does exist because we have just experienced a miracle!
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On a serious note though, I heard today that WA wants to renew some tax for an automated fingerprint ID system that costs the state 20 million a year. They must have a way to do this cheaper. I think they are being taken for a ride and we are footing the bill.
Sure...as long as it's "green"
This is a known working technology in battle field scenarios where you need to find the shooter so you can kill the shooter(s). This will not work in crime prevention because you can not rain down fire indiscriminately to keep the shooter in place before they can be found and killed.
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I would rather the money be spent on more officers on the street. This is the only thing that deters crime. Shooters will learn very quickly how to circumvent these systems if there is not overwhelming force against them. This system will serve as a management tool that tells the police where the shots were fired but it will never prevent the shots from being fired. Another waste of money.Â
 @Beam_Me_Up I agree. Even if they are able to get an officer at the pinpointed location in three minutes the perps will be at least three blocks away, even if on foot. This is a colossal waste of money.
Will this work as well as those stupid info signs on I-5?
Gee, Â its too bad we can't get back the Millions and Millions that the taxpayers were defrauded out of by the Seattle police for that system of accountability. Â
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It will probably be another camera company in AZ that McGinn has invested in like the red light cameras that send 95 dollars out of every 125.00 ticket to the private company. Â
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Seattle won't survive another term with McGinn.Â
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MgGinns MESS! Â Â Will someone else please run against this Mayoral Disgrace? Â
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not sure how that is better than the 911 call from bystanders. The cameras will either produce low res pictures where nobody is identifiable, or you need so many of them that we run out of money on this ...
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plus if it's any good, the gangsters will just change their tactics and shoot indoors
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not sold, sorryÂ
McGinn = Fail!Â
"The network also raises civil liberty concerns and would be expensive. It would cost about $1 million up front and then hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to maintain it."
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Geeze. You people need to get that guy out of office before he sinks that town financially. This just screams failure.
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That dude is S-T-U-P-I-D
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How does one triangulate the source of a gunshot when is bouncing off buildings, streets, allys, etc.?
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This is yet another failed attempt at feel good measures. Much like microstamping ammo. It benefits only the ones providing the proposed 'solution'. In the real world, it has no effect in the least.
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If I'm a banger in a coffe can exhaust equiped Honda, and I fire off a few rounds at a group of the 'enemy', How on earth is this gonna help catch me? When ya need a cop, they're minutes away. This is supposed to help? Realy???
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Keep it up Mikey. Are you realy that ignorant?
 @bobalouie Hey.. look it up first. The research is actually pretty interesting.. and it's been working incredibly well for many cities across the U.S. http://www.shotspotter.com/technology
 @bobalouie Yes, he is.
Could we pay a transient minimum wage and give them a cellphone?
I'll hop on board with this idea as long as McGinn pays for it out of his own pocket.
.....And the quarter-million dollar toilets.