Study says even modest tolling would divert Seattle tunnel traffic
»Play Video
SEATTLE (AP) - A state study suggests that even a modest toll would result in traffic diverting away from a tunnel on the Seattle waterfront onto city streets.
But the state could meet the $200 million it is expecting to contribute from tolling to the $3.2 billion replacement project for the aging, earthquake-vulnerable viaduct. The tolls would also pay for maintenance and interest on the bonds the state needs for the $200 million.
The state Department of Transportation study was presented Wednesday to the Advisory Committee on Tolling and Traffic Management - a joint government committee studying how to raise the $200 million.
The study looked at tolling ranges between 75 cents to $3.25 to meet the $200 million needed.
It found that "even modest mid-day tolls" led to diversion of between 30 and 50 percent of the expected traffic on the tunnel. It suggests that drivers taking long trips would pay for a toll, but in-city drivers would opt for city streets.
The viaduct typically carries 110,000 vehicles a day.
One scenario that achieved the $200 million needed had tolls between $1 and $3.25, depending on the time of day. The second scenario had a range of 75 cents to $2.50 but those rates would be increased in 2030. One scenario in which tolls were set between 75 cents and $2.25, but saw no increase in 2030 would not raise enough money.
The findings of this study echo the results of a study released last June. That study suggested that an extra 9,100 cars could spill onto surface streets during the afternoon commute in 2017 if tolls were $3.50 southbound and $2.50 northbound. That's about 42 percent of traffic that would use an un-tolled tunnel. At the time, project administrator Linea Laird said this that no other money is currently available to the state Department of Transportation.
With these two studies completed, the committee will present another set of scenarios by spring, said Amy Grotefendt, a DOT spokeswoman.
The committee will think of ways to "discourage people from diverting from the tunnel," Grotefendt said.
Rich Sheridan, spokesman for the Seattle Department of Transportation, said the city is concerned about drivers using streets instead of the tunnel.
"However, we recognize it's early," he said.
The early stages of replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct with a tunnel have already begun with crews tearing down the southern section of the elevated highway. The Department of Transportation projects the finished, four-lane tunnel is expected to open at the end of 2015.
But the state could meet the $200 million it is expecting to contribute from tolling to the $3.2 billion replacement project for the aging, earthquake-vulnerable viaduct. The tolls would also pay for maintenance and interest on the bonds the state needs for the $200 million.
The state Department of Transportation study was presented Wednesday to the Advisory Committee on Tolling and Traffic Management - a joint government committee studying how to raise the $200 million.
The study looked at tolling ranges between 75 cents to $3.25 to meet the $200 million needed.
It found that "even modest mid-day tolls" led to diversion of between 30 and 50 percent of the expected traffic on the tunnel. It suggests that drivers taking long trips would pay for a toll, but in-city drivers would opt for city streets.
The viaduct typically carries 110,000 vehicles a day.
One scenario that achieved the $200 million needed had tolls between $1 and $3.25, depending on the time of day. The second scenario had a range of 75 cents to $2.50 but those rates would be increased in 2030. One scenario in which tolls were set between 75 cents and $2.25, but saw no increase in 2030 would not raise enough money.
The findings of this study echo the results of a study released last June. That study suggested that an extra 9,100 cars could spill onto surface streets during the afternoon commute in 2017 if tolls were $3.50 southbound and $2.50 northbound. That's about 42 percent of traffic that would use an un-tolled tunnel. At the time, project administrator Linea Laird said this that no other money is currently available to the state Department of Transportation.
With these two studies completed, the committee will present another set of scenarios by spring, said Amy Grotefendt, a DOT spokeswoman.
The committee will think of ways to "discourage people from diverting from the tunnel," Grotefendt said.
Rich Sheridan, spokesman for the Seattle Department of Transportation, said the city is concerned about drivers using streets instead of the tunnel.
"However, we recognize it's early," he said.
The early stages of replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct with a tunnel have already begun with crews tearing down the southern section of the elevated highway. The Department of Transportation projects the finished, four-lane tunnel is expected to open at the end of 2015.
Not to late to pull the plug on it now!
@Gino
I wish, but no it is too late unfortunately.Â
Shouldn't they have figured out how to pay for it before deciding to go this route? Oh wait, it is government, it can always force more fees and taxes on us. What was I thinking.
Nice little concept picture. Too bad it does not show enough lanes to handle the traffic necessary to really do the job. It is sort of hard to expand a tunnel, so why not toll it? That is the easiest way to avoid overcrowding. Just keep raising the tolls until this little tunnel can handle the remaining traffic. There is no way it could ever do the job a much less expensive viaduct could have any way, so what is the big deal? It is over priced, under sized, and not upgradeable. In other words, just another government boondoggle, paid for by voters whether or not they wanted it.        Â
It's only a matter of time before these idiots toll every major hwy around here. They are already looking for way's to toll I-90 bridge, Snoqualmie pass, and 405 hov lanes, that's why they want everyone to have to good to go sticker in there car.
@hinterland  The Good To Go Pass may be the only way forward. Currently we rely on the Gas Tax but people are buying more fuel effcient cards that use less (if any) gasoline. At least the Good To Go Pass allows a "pay as you go" option".
 @scared_citizen The pay as you go would be nice but they have spent 95% of all of the gas tax money for the nest 30 years. How is that pay as you go. The 520 toll needs to be $21 each way to be a pay as you go. We already have give enough for the pay as you go but they continue to spend more on worse and worse roads. You are right it is time to pay as you go but that means do not waste massive amounts of money on bad roads and bus lanes.
And the Port is whining about all the traffic a new stadium will create.
Too funny.
Â
Another perfect example of how our government does business. Just go ahead and spend millions of dollars they don't have to begin with and then try to force more taxes, tolls, and fees down the taxpayers throat. Until they have adequate funding for these things they shouldn't commit to going ahead. People are just getting fed up with this mentality and for good reason. They keep spending money they just don't have and it's not good economics.
I had to read the title three times to make sure it didn't say trolling.
I'm so glad I don't live anywhere near Seattle and their damned tolling. I already pay to drive on these roads. You aren't getting anymore money out of me, suckas!
 @Tattooed_Angel Unfortunately they plan to toll 29 more roads throughout Washington. So help push back now or you are next.
Jim McGraw
tollrunner.org
"A state study suggests that even a modest toll would result in traffic diverting away from a tunnel on the Seattle waterfront onto city streets." - <sarcasm font on> No- you don't say! Â Gee, who would've thought that would happen-we certainly needed a state study to figure that out or we never would have known that! <sarcasm font off>
To do ANYTHING that diverts traffic to city streets, is deleterious to commerce and transportation needS. DOT, quit polling, feeing, and taxing us to death......LIKE MY OPINION WILL EVER BE RESPECTED ! ! ! !
Seattle's looney left gov't is going to make sure that by 2025 no one who lives outside of Seattle will go into the city. It will be toursits and city dwellers. All burb and rural dwellers will stay well clear of the place and that includes it's restaurants. They have just as good or better places on the east side. I already use 405 so I dont have to pay for the floating bridges.
state is good at starting something costly and then finding its flaw afterward... Â the wrong design for sprague offramp on hwy 16 for example... Â i'm pretty sure somebody is drinking on the job...
@CIAassassin Yeah, what the hell is that mess over the Nalley Valley? LOL
 @Tattooed_Angel  @CIAassassin why it is mess dot creating job security by solving the mess with another mess.
toll all the roads or none. They all need work.
 @just_sayin68 We already pay one of the highest gas taxes. More money on tolls just gives them more money to waste and money to destroy car travel.
I wouldn't take this tunnel if they paid me. I wonder if they have considered the possibility of an accident involving a jack-knifed semi, chemical spill, fire, or someone in the middle of that in a wheelchair? The pictures on the tunnel wall shows fit, athletic looking figures running. I look around Seattle and don't see mucany of those people. Something tells me there will be a lawsuit filed by the ADA that adds about 50% more to the cost of this silly project.
 @dorimonsonfan I have been thinking earthquake.
Yeah, those figures on the wall are running alright, running for their lives.Those are emergency figures, showing an escape route for running and hoping that the door they reach leads to safety and is unlocked.
@dorimonsonfan
No, they haven't taken any of that into account (insert sarcasm here). Â I'm sure you're the first to think of such a thing (insert sarcasm here).Â
Â
oops. mucany = many
So they want to spend billions of dollars on a tunnel and then toll it so people won't use it? They want to clog city streets with traffic from people who don't want to pay the toll? Then why build a tunnel at all?Â
The mayor's goal is to get people out of their cars and onto transit or bicycles. Clogging up streets is the best way he sees fit to do so, and this, along with turning perfectly good city streets into bike lanes is part of that process.
They need to build the dam thing before all the whining drowns out common sense...
 @Windowseat Common sense? Build the biggest tunnel borer machine ever conceived by man after the much smaller Brightwater borer failed and could not be fixed. This wil make the Big Dig look like a bargain.
Jim McGraw
tollrunner.org
I think the gist of it is that people are tired of getting taxed to death. I also don't care for a toll that fluctuates based on the time of day. Lets face it, we also are living in some very difficult economic times.Â
 @HallandOates I agree. SET THE FEE AND BE DONE. I've lived in Maine and the only highways there (such as 95) are toll roads. You pay a toll to cross the bridge from Portsmouth, NH into Kittery, ME, and anytime you enter the freeway. It's a set fee. I used to drive 95 to get to school (High school!), it cost me $1.50/day round trip. I never batted an eye. Then of course, the fee never changed based on the time of day, and gas was still under $1 in 1999. Nothing's changed there, except the fee did go up to $1/entry.
So, they want you to pay a toll, but they also want to keep you from using other routes so you don't have to pay a toll.... It figures..
We need to put the tolling authority back in the state legislatures hands.Â
Make it one toll, for all day. If they keep it low, there won't be much avoidance of the tunnel. The problem is the cost of monitoring and collecting the tolls.. so, not only do the tolls have to cover the cost of the tunnel, they have to cover the cost of the toll collection.
 @Mr. H Um no. We had this battle to try to put it back in the legislature. The people don't want that either. Sorry not an option. How can we trust the legislature to vote without bias? A very sizable chunk of them do not even LIVE where the tolls are in place. BAD IDEA...PERIOD.
Duh.Â
So why do State projects in Seattle get such fancy tolling arrangements? While the rest of the state has to pay one price no matter what hour or day you travel over a bridge, AKA the Narrows Bridge? My guess is Seattle cries the loudest.
No money. Don't build it. Save your money, they pay for it when you have enough. Pretty simple.
 @Stock Woodie Except that would be a never ending cycle. Construction costs go up every year, thus making it much harder to save the money. It needs to be done now. The same can be said for Light Rail ><
 @BluefireJaguar Another "instant gratification" citizen. Light rail is a joke in Seattle. HUGE government subsidies. Constructions costs do go up, so start saving now. EVERYTHING goes up. It's no different that the average Joe saving up to buy something.Â
 @Stock Woodie  i completely agree Seattle the proud sponsor's of 5 trains to no-where soon 2 be 6 trains to no-where.
So then the idiocy is to charge a grand a year per user; in this economy. Do ANY of these people go to college and actually read somethin there?
This tunnel has been sponsored by Lexus.
@mstipton Easy now, no thinking out of the box allowed!
Â
Good idea!!
 @mstipton That's actually not a bad idea. Doesn't cost us anything, while generating longterm revenue through a selected rotation of high end advertisers.
Ironically, the botched planning and utter stupidity of the electorate will have the wholly unintentional consequence of lessening casualties in a major earthquake compared to the Viaduct. Because the new structure is any safer in a major earthquake? Of course not; it will be because everyone will be stacked two cars deep in traffic on Second Avenue avoiding tolls when the earthquake hits. I'm sure that will come as great comfort when our grandchildren are bleeding tax money out of their ears still paying for this monument to capital idiocy.
I think that if drivers have to pay to "help set off some of the cost", I think people who are in jail and prisons should have to "pay to set off the cost " too.....
@InMyOpinion They should be the labor to build it...and pay their debt to society for having to house them, feed them, and provide their health care. They should be required to work.
Quadshot, your posts are obviously much to easy for you to make and some government intervention would be beneficial as a deterrent.Â
Â
Talk to the officials in Renton about traffic light synchronization. If they follow there lead that should "discourage" people from using surface streets unless they absolutely have to.
 @Quadshot Seattle is no better! Â
Aren't freeways and roads supposed to sustain and support commerce, taxpayers' mobility and lives, and tourism? Where is all the money from the gas taxes, the city of Seattle's referendums and citizens property taxes, gong to? And yet, the DOT, yet again, is trying to suck more and more money out of people. In this challenged economy, those State-paid (taxpayer-paid) jobs, still can't get enough of our money.
Â
Spread the cost out over a longer period of time, like they used to do with the Evergreen Point bridge. Now they want projects paid for in 15-18 years, rather than 40 years. It's all very greedy, short-sighted, and a real threat to the economy of Washington.
Â
Stifle commerce and your stifle the economy; Stifle the economy, and you stifle jobs and quality of life. We cannot continue to tolerate taxing, tolling, and raising fee after fee. When are the voters of this blue state going to think independently and stop this bureaucratic bull s**t?
 @Yadayada Budgeting is not a priority.