On the eve of marijuana legalization, many questions remain
SEATTLE (AP) - Legal marijuana possession becomes a reality in Washington state Thursday, and some people plan to celebrate the new law by breaking it.
Washington's newly passed marijuana law takes effect Thursday and allows adults to have up to an ounce of pot -- but it bans public use of marijuana, which is punishable by a fine, just like drinking in public.
To celebrate the new law, some people planned to gather at 12 a.m. Thursday to smoke up beneath Seattle's Space Needle. Others planned to party outside Hempfest headquarters in Seattle.
On Wednesday evening, the Seattle Police Department issued a statement making clear that officers will not be ticketing marijuana users, even if those users are smoking in a public place.
According to police spokesman Jonah Spangenthal-Lee, city and state laws don't contain any language "that gives officers clear direction on how to deal with the provisions of I-502 prohibiting public use of marijuana."
"In the meantime, in keeping with the spirit of I-502, the department's going to give you a generous grace period to help you adjust to this brave, new, and maybe kinda stoned world we live in," the statement reads.
So, instead of ticketing public pot smokers, police will issue a verbal warning.
The new law has also left a lot of unanswered questions about what people can and cannot do when it comes to pot. For instance, just because it is now legal to possess marijuana, employers can still implement drug policies that ban pot. That means workers can still be fired or not hired in the first place for using marijuana.
The question being asked most about the new law is that if buying and possessing recreational marijuana is legal, but selling it is not, then how are customers supposed to get it?
Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, who played a huge role in passing I-502, said there's no easy answer to that question.
"We are in uncharted territory," he said.
Beginning next December, state officials will regulate marijuana farming. They will also create a distribution system and open sanctioned stores to sell the pot.
One person who hopes to take advantage of the new law is Jamen Shively. A former Microsoft manager, Shively is now hoping to create an his own "premium marijuana" business.
He came up with the idea a few months ago and has already recruited Alan Valdes from the New York Stock Exchange as the company's chairman of the board.
"The main reason for me is about transforming our society's relationship to this incredible herb called marijuana," Shively said. "Transforming it from one of criminality to making it to something that is tolerated and controlled."
Shively's business will have to stay on the shelf until the next year. Until then, the only place to buy marijuana for recreational purposes is from a drug dealer, which puts police in the awkward position of letting buyers go while arresting their suppliers.
Holmes said many of those issues will clear up next year.
"We will then be able to give clear direction to law enforcement that if it's not licensed by the state of Washington, it's fair game," he said.
Despite November's historic vote, marijuana remains illegal under federal law, and many law enforcement officials are concerned about losing federal money to fight drugs.
In a statement released Wednesday, U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan said the federal government's views on marijuana have not changed.
"The Department's responsibility to enforce the Controlled Substances Act remains unchanged," the statement reads. "Neither States nor the Executive branch can nullify a statute passed by Congress. In enacting the Controlled Substances Act, Congress determined that marijuana is a Schedule I controlled substance. Regardless of any changes in state law, including the change that will go into effect on December 6th in Washington State, growing, selling or possessing any amount of marijuana remains illegal under federal law."
Washington's newly passed marijuana law takes effect Thursday and allows adults to have up to an ounce of pot -- but it bans public use of marijuana, which is punishable by a fine, just like drinking in public.
To celebrate the new law, some people planned to gather at 12 a.m. Thursday to smoke up beneath Seattle's Space Needle. Others planned to party outside Hempfest headquarters in Seattle.
On Wednesday evening, the Seattle Police Department issued a statement making clear that officers will not be ticketing marijuana users, even if those users are smoking in a public place.
According to police spokesman Jonah Spangenthal-Lee, city and state laws don't contain any language "that gives officers clear direction on how to deal with the provisions of I-502 prohibiting public use of marijuana."
"In the meantime, in keeping with the spirit of I-502, the department's going to give you a generous grace period to help you adjust to this brave, new, and maybe kinda stoned world we live in," the statement reads.
So, instead of ticketing public pot smokers, police will issue a verbal warning.
The new law has also left a lot of unanswered questions about what people can and cannot do when it comes to pot. For instance, just because it is now legal to possess marijuana, employers can still implement drug policies that ban pot. That means workers can still be fired or not hired in the first place for using marijuana.
The question being asked most about the new law is that if buying and possessing recreational marijuana is legal, but selling it is not, then how are customers supposed to get it?
Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes, who played a huge role in passing I-502, said there's no easy answer to that question.
"We are in uncharted territory," he said.
Beginning next December, state officials will regulate marijuana farming. They will also create a distribution system and open sanctioned stores to sell the pot.
One person who hopes to take advantage of the new law is Jamen Shively. A former Microsoft manager, Shively is now hoping to create an his own "premium marijuana" business.
He came up with the idea a few months ago and has already recruited Alan Valdes from the New York Stock Exchange as the company's chairman of the board.
"The main reason for me is about transforming our society's relationship to this incredible herb called marijuana," Shively said. "Transforming it from one of criminality to making it to something that is tolerated and controlled."
Shively's business will have to stay on the shelf until the next year. Until then, the only place to buy marijuana for recreational purposes is from a drug dealer, which puts police in the awkward position of letting buyers go while arresting their suppliers.
Holmes said many of those issues will clear up next year.
"We will then be able to give clear direction to law enforcement that if it's not licensed by the state of Washington, it's fair game," he said.
Despite November's historic vote, marijuana remains illegal under federal law, and many law enforcement officials are concerned about losing federal money to fight drugs.
In a statement released Wednesday, U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan said the federal government's views on marijuana have not changed.
"The Department's responsibility to enforce the Controlled Substances Act remains unchanged," the statement reads. "Neither States nor the Executive branch can nullify a statute passed by Congress. In enacting the Controlled Substances Act, Congress determined that marijuana is a Schedule I controlled substance. Regardless of any changes in state law, including the change that will go into effect on December 6th in Washington State, growing, selling or possessing any amount of marijuana remains illegal under federal law."
Where's the VICTORY? You can purchase smoking devices with NO marijuana to smoke through them....... You can posses up to an ounce of marijuana with nowhere to buy it..... Up yours politicians, Federal Government and other officials promoting more CRIMINAL activity!
"Neither States nor the Executive branch can nullify a statute passed by Congress."
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State rights are guaranteed in the US Constitution. No where does it give the feds this power in the Constitution.
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(1) the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States guarantees to the states and their people all powers not granted to the federal government elsewhere in the constitution...
The Seattle Police Department told its 1300+ officers via email Wednesday that âUntil further notice, officers shall not take any enforcement actionâother than to issue a verbal warningâfor a violation of I-502.âThe full notice, sent to officers on Wednesday evening: Until further notice, officers shall not take any enforcement actionâother than to issue a verbal warningâfor a violation of I-502. On November 6, 2012, Washington State voters approved Initiative 502 (I-502), decriminalizing the possession of marijuana in certain cases. This initiative is effective December 6th, 2012. I-502 includes the following provisions: ⢠Sec. 20 (3): âThe possession, by a person twenty-one years of age or older, of useable marijuana or marijuana-infused products in amounts that do not exceed those set forth in section 15(3) of this act is not a violation of this section, this chapter, or any other provision of Washington state law.â o Sec.15 (3) lists the amounts that a person twenty-one years of age or older may possess: à One ounce of usable marijuana à Sixteen ounces of marijuana-infused product in solid form à Seventy-two ounces of marijuana-infused product in liquid form ⢠Sec. 21: âIt is unlawful to open a package containing marijuana, useable marijuana, or a marijuana-infused product, or consume marijuana, useable marijuana, or a marijuana-infused product, in view of the general public. A person who violates this section is guilty of a class 3 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW.â ⢠Sec. 22 makes the use, delivery, and the possession or manufacture with intent to deliver drug paraphernalia illegal only for controlled substances other than marijuana. As of today, there is no actual section in the Revised Code of Washington (RCW) or Seattle Municipal Code (SMC) that reflects the provisions of I-502; however the provisions of the initiative are expected to be codified in the RCW sometime in January. It is also possible that the Seattle City Council might enact sections of Seattle Municipal Code that mirror the RCW. If an SMC is adopted, a 30 day period must pass before it takes effect. Officers are reminded that the medical marijuana laws remain unchanged, and that per SMC 12A.20.060, enforcement of marijuana offenses where it was intended for adult personal use remains the Cityâs lowest law enforcement priority. Please direct any questions to the Narcotics Section at 684-5797 or Assistant Chief Pugel at 684-5485.
Like, where did I park my Prius dude ?
Where can I get my ounce tomorrow?
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I'm drooling to get it!
 @WA_State_spends_2_much Learn how to grow it.
 @WA_State_spends_2_much Same place you got it before it was legal.
 @nwbackpacker  @WA_State_spends_2_much I didn't get it before it was legal. There are going to be a lot of people looking for not-so-scummy dealers...Â
 @WA_State_spends_2_much Craigslist more than likely...They have EVERYTHING
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Here's some good reading about the medical side of this...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK57261/
But the federal government insists that pot has no medical value?
The real question is (I don't smoke).... How do you get a job if 99.9% of companies drug test and won't hire you.
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You won't work for the Federal Gov or any company that works with/for them. Those are usually good paying long term jobs with life long benefits. Fed will have a permanent record if you fail and you won't be hired. Why risk it?
 @greenecho I've been in the workforce for near 15 years now and haven't ever taken a single drug test
 @bearzooka That's because you lied regarding marijuana use to gain employment...... How does it feel to be a liar?
 @Funky-Munky  @bearzooka What? I've also never been asked if i used marijuana on an application or an interview. I've worked at grocery stores, construction jobs and in engineering offices...Never lied to get a job.Â
 @greenecho Yeah, I don't think I've *ever* had to take a drug test to get a job.
 @greenecho I just got hired at a new a job a few months ago and was somewhat surprised to see the drug policy only stated that it is prohibited to use drugs or alcohol on the work premises or to arrive at work intoxicated/under the influence. It says nothing about what employees may or may not do on their personal time. That's the way it should be!Â
 @greenecho I've had 3 jobs in the last decade or so, and no drug tests. I work in the tech industry. It's fairly rare for tech companies to test for this.
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 @Justaguy âThe only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. And I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon. Probably at the next gas station.â
 @Elvis  @Justaguy Awesome!
Well with that picture and all this talk about pot, I feel like I need to smoke up.Cheers
So, does this mean, we can drive down I-5 happily smoking our bongs and not worry about throwing it out the window when we get pulled over?Â
 @Slingerss As long as you stay under the legal limit. Although the LAST thing I would want to do when stoned is drive. It's hard enough to follow the plot of a TV show when in that state. Kids, don't drive stoned! It's dangerous!Â
 @Slingerss No.... Because littering is still against the law. The next generation - Total Entitled Idiots.
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It's nice to see KOMO finally breaking down & posting something other than their 2 "go-to" marijuana photos.Â
The test/limit does not say anything about impairment. Some medical users don't really get high, they just feel better when they use it. Only newbies and drinkers will have real problems, though. Getting stopped with both pot and alcohol use over the limit will be a double whammy. It always has been but this is untested waters. Whatever you do don't get into an accident like that. It will get expensive, now that it's legal.
 @Elvis Easy impairment test: If your driving was so horrible that you were pulled over or you got in an accident that was your fault, and the cop thinks you were intoxicated, then chances are you were impaired.
 @CommutingGuy You're right. I have heard of people getting diu's with less than .08 alcohol too. The cop has some control, it seems.
 @Elvis  @CommutingGuy Yup, can happen.  Washington is an "impairment" state, if you have any alcohol or intoxicating substance in your system, and your driving appears to be impaired, or you fail your field sobriety tests, you can be arrested for DUI.  The .08 alcohol limit is the point where you are considered impaired by the state, whether you appear to be or not.  There are some heavy drinkers out there than can go way above .08 and drive relatively fine but they are still considered impaired under the law. Â
Next question: how is a driver supposed to know when they're over the legal limit of 5 ng before driving? Stand on one foot and count to ten? Most people who have smoked pot in the previous 5-7 days will probably test positive for dui. I guess a personal ua kit would be a good gift for the stoner on you Christmas list.
 @Reality Control Don't drive stoned. That's the easiest way to know.Â
@Reality Control I think they are actually testing for a metabolite of THC that is supposedly a good test for recent marijuana consumption. The more concerning part is that the 5ng limit is totally arbitrary, there have been no reputable studies that I know of that have shown a significant statistical relationship with a certain level of THC in the bloodstream and driver impairment. This is not to say that it isn't possible to be too stoned to drive safely, just that the 5ng limit in the law is not something that has been arrived at through any rational or systematic approach.
 @Reality Control There is a test the police will use to test 'active THC', which is different the the THC most companies test for employment. Active THC typically drops below 5ng's within about 4 hours after use.Â
@RedRiverBand @Shelly @Reality Control I was going to say the same thing. The 5ng plasma level is based on existing research and it shows it will drop below that in 3-4 hours. Be smart...if you're going to smoke do it responsible just like drinking. I couldn't be happier to have the legal right to abide...but will only do it in the comfort of my or friends home when I know I don't need drive.
 @Reality Control Well for starters, don't drive until hours after you've smoked and don't drive like an idiot to get pulled over in the first place. The 5-7 days claim is a scare tactic used by anti 502 groups. There's no evidence to back that up.Â
One question doesn't remain... that looks like some tasty bud right there...
"Neither States nor the Executive branch can nullify a statute passed by Congress."
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Yet Congress can apparently enact a statute that is in direct conflict with a constitutional amendment. I'm actually surprised that ANY American has respect for our federal government anymore.Â
@jowsuf ...And then the supreme court can strike down the legislation as unconstitutional. If they don't do so, your disagreeing with them means not a whit. They are professional constitutionalists, appointed in accordance with the law by our duly elected president, and confirmed by our duly elected representatives. That's the structure of our government. It's not perfect (I for one abhor the citizens united decision) but it more or less works, and there's no way to please everyone.
 @devilnis  @jowsuf I understand how the system works. The bottom line is that, like alcohol prohibition, the only legal way to have drug prohibition is to make it a constitutional amendment that must be ratified by the states. Not doing so violates the constitution. They just never tried because they know it wouldn't be ratified by many states. The supreme court can make any determination they want, it seems. That doesn't mean it doesn't violate the law of the land.Â
 @Elvis Money....
 @devilnis  @jowsuf Like I've said many times - expect the repeal of marijuana prohibition to be a major presidential election issue by no later than 2020. Franklin D Roosevelt was elected due to his promise to repeal the prohibition of alcohol. The "New Deal" economic programs that pulled our country out of the Great Depression were primarily funded by the taxes on alcohol.
It's easy to verify - start reading some real history books, or actual newspapers from the time - not sanitized public school history that's designed to hide it!
This is something we deliberately weren't taught in school - and the people who lived it - and voted through it - have all passed on.
 @devilnis  @jowsuf There was so much deception in keeping pot schedule one and still is. The feds are ignoring research and ethics, especially when they admit that there is medical value by pursuing patents relating to medical benefits.
I know! They are protecting us from ourselves (?). After all pot has killed so many...NOT. If they aren't doing it for our health, what then.
@jowsuf Like everything else that has been typified by an increase in federal power, the war on drugs was deemed to have bearing on "interstate commerce," thus putting it into the federal government's jurisdiction. The feds have obviously stretched this quite a ways to dubious ends, but that doesn't change the essential legality of the legislation they pass. It's legal once passed unless one of the federal courts strikes it down and there is no chance of appeal (either because appeal was denied or the supreme court made the decision.) States can and do make laws that are in apparent conflict with federal law, and generally the feds have chosen to try and bring the states to heel through denying them funding on unrelated matters rather than by directly forcing them to accede to federal law. I feel that this is an inevitable result of the tiered system (federal > state > municipal/county) that we have. There are good results too, as laws more hand-tailored to specific regions can be put into place by the local authorities. The balance between federal and state power has been a bone of contention since before the constitution was ratified, and will forever be. Would it be better if states had full sovereignty so that Texas could go to war with California? Would the decision in Roe vs. Wade be better made on a state by state basis? I couldn't begin to tell you the answer, I don't think there is one that satisfies all desires.