Oregon judge says Vatican isn't abusive priests' employer

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — The Vatican won a major victory Monday in an Oregon federal courtroom, where a judge ruled that the Holy See is not the employer of molester priests.
The decision by U.S. District Court Judge Michael Mosman ends a six-year question in the decade-old case and could shield the Vatican from possible monetary damages.
The original lawsuit was filed in 2002 by a Seattle-area man who said the Rev. Andrew Ronan repeatedly molested him in the late 1960s.
The plaintiffs tried to show that Ronan and all priests are employees of the Vatican, which is therefore liable for their actions.
Mosman made a previous decision strictly on legal theory and determined that, if all the facts in the case were true, then the Vatican would indeed employ Ronan. But on Monday, Mosman said he looked at the facts in the case and didn't find an employer-employee relationship.
"There are no facts to create a true employment relationship between Ronan and the Holy See," Mosman said in his ruling from the bench.
Jeff Anderson, attorney for the plaintiff, said he will appeal the decision.
"While we're disappointed, of course, we're not discouraged," Anderson said.
The plaintiffs argued that Ronan's fealty to the Pope, the Vatican's ability to promote priests, the Vatican's laicization — or removal — process, and the ability to change priests' training all pointed to the Vatican employing priests.
"We believe that under further scrutiny," Anderson said in a news release, "the courts will find that Vatican protocols and practice make it clear that obedience to Rome required the secrecy and concealment practiced by priests and bishops as the clergy abuse crisis unfolded in the United States."
The impact of Mosman's ruling on other priest sex-abuse cases is not yet clear. The case has gone further than any other in attempting to get at the relationship between priests in the U.S. and the Vatican.
Douglas Laycock, a University of Virginia School of Law professor, said lawsuits against the Pope are usually dismissed on sovereign immunity grounds, with a U.S. court ruling that the Vatican can't be sued because there is no jurisdiction in the U.S. to do so.
"This was likely filed more to make a political statement," Laycock said.
Mosman took up several hypothetical analogies while questioning attorneys for both sides. He said that, for instance, the Oregon legal bar has many of the same powers over lawyers as the Vatican has over priests: It can disbar someone and issue sanctions, just as the Vatican can laicize priests, but doing so doesn't constitute a firing.
The plaintiffs were trying to show that, by exerting control, the Vatican was the priests' employer.
Mosman said that if he accepted the plaintiff's argument that the Vatican maintains absolute control over all priests, and is therefore their employer, then all Catholics everywhere could similarly be considered employees of the Holy See.
After the ruling, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, or SNAP, director David Clohessy said in a statement that the Vatican wants "to have their cake and eat it too" by varying their definition of the church, sometimes calling it a top-down hierarchical institution and other times asserting that only locals have control over their employees.
"It's a shame that, once again, top Catholic officials successfully exploit legal technicalities to keep clergy sex crimes and cover ups covered up," Clohessy said. "The truth is that the Vatican oversees the church worldwide, insisting on secrecy in child sex cases and stopping or delaying the defrocking of pedophile priests."
The Catholic church obviously paid someone off.... this is a disgrace and they should be ashamed of themselves.   ummm.... 9th commandment????
GLAD I'm NOT Catholic!!!!!
The Catholic church obviously paid someone off.... this is a disgrace and they should be ashamed of themselves.   ummm.... 9th commandment????
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We can solve this very quickly. God? Who is responsible for your priests who run your churches? ? ? God? You there? God?
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Oh, yeah that's right, It's all made up so no one is accountable to any one in those cults.
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Let them all suffer under it. They all deserve it. They do it to themselves by funding these men controlled women hating churches. They and their pedophile lifestyle following ilk are repulsive and should be thrown in jail for life. And protected church buildings where they hide should all be shut down.  Â
Does anyone do a grammar check before releasing articles? Is it just me or does the headline make absolutely no sense?
You don't need a law degree to know that the Pope is a Catholic Priest's BOSS. i.e. employer...
I think the problem in the interpretation is that the Vatican doesn't cut the pay checks...which it doesn't. Each diocese employs their own priests and those priests take a vow of obedience to their local bishop. Religious priests (those belonging to a religious order or congregation) get their allowances from their congregation/order and vow obedience to their superior.Â
@SheilaKA And that's different from a McDonald's franchise how? The local McDonald's makes their own money and sends some up to corporate, sounds just like the Catholic model to me.
 @virtual anomaly  @SheilaKA It is different in that the corporate head does NOT employ the workers at the franchised locations. Nor does the corporate head pay any of the employment taxes levied against the employees of the franchisee. The franchisee pays a fee to the corporate head based upon several different factors but neither the franchisee or the franchisee's employees are employees of the corporate head.Â
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On the other hand, a franchisee MUST obey certain requirements of the corporate head to maintain their business arrangement with the corporate head. This includes how, where and when to "merchandise" the franchise, where to buy supplies and materials, what uniforms employees must wear and so forth. Sounds EXACTLY like the hierarchy of the Catholic church to me.
I'm going to need a shovel for that load of crap that judge spewed from his mouth with that ruling. The Vatican controls them, hides them, controls their doctrines, and trains them. In any book I would call them an employer and they should be held responsible as any business should be. It is their edicts and rules that have suppressed the knowledge of what those priests were doing both here and elsewhere in the world. One news program on Sunday last told how they had been molesting kids in Ireland and Scotland for many years and that too was concealed by the Vatican. Next thing that judge will try to tell us that the Inquisition was not run by the church. The Catholic church should be and needs to be held accountable for what they have done over so many years and have tried to conceal it even to this day. As far as I am concerned the Catholic Church is run by a bunch of sick people and needs a house cleaning in the worst way and start from the top.
The Vatican is the employer of priests in Roman Catholic churches. I'm guessing the judge in this case was probably catholic himself so should have recused himself from the case. And why should Vatican City be its own country? They don't even have to follow any banking laws and the Vatican bank is huge. A lot of the drug cartles are known to launder their money through there.
I still don't understand how the Vatican is not the employer of the priests!
 @Rod No more than the kid flipping burgers at the neighborhood McDonald's is an employee of McDonald's, Inc.
 @Rod Yep, kind of like a CEO as not being the top guy in a Corporation.
If there was any proof in this case that the Vatican was aware of this priests molesting of children then they should have been held accountable too. I don't know how anyone could be Roman Catholic in this day and age when you look at the Vatican's very long history of evil. And it continues to this day.
 @Blindman The proof is there if we can pry it out from under the layers of years of concealment they have erected to hide it from the public.Â
Well, this day has now become a triptych of weird news...
1: Female bodies "know" when a rape is "legitimate".
2: Republicans honor their faith by swimming in the buff where Jesus walked.
3: The Catholic Church does not "employ" priests...
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But, if that's the case, how are they able to "fire" them?
 @OrcasThunder I thought my head was going to explode last night. I asked my husband about a headline including "rape" and "legitimate" He looked at me and said "This is going to p@#$ you off"..then told me..UNBELIEVABLE. I'm still reading and actually getting more angry at every article. Nutballs, all of them.
 @Yeah_and Well, there may a small blessing in this insanity - that they expose it now, and not wait until they are safely in office and in control. Perhaps there is a god after all...
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 @Yeah_and Me too, lady! I told all my girlfriends to pay attention to that ! There is a petition to have Akin removed, since (at least as late as yesterday) he was not showing any sign of resigning himself. The moron is on our US Committee for Science and yet what comes out of his mouth is baseless crap that the average 12 year old knows is false.
 @OrcasThunder I quess they really don't need to "fire" them. I think the bible says that will be taken care of.
 @jds_55 What a comfort that must be for the victims...
I suppose it would be to much to ask for the Catholic Church to simply take responsibility for its priests without having to be sued. There is something quite ironic about an organization that portrays itself as the ultimate teacher of morality being so insistent upon dodging responsibility. It is pretty clear that keeping its bank accounts full of cash and hanging on to the wealth of assets it has around the world are more important goals than doing what is right.
 @kennewickman I think it is immoral that they don't sell it all and feed the poor- isn't that what their Jesus would have advised them to do?
WHAT! That judges rule is just ridiculous! Priests are definitely beholden to their bishops or superiors. Those bishops and superiors are in their positions due to the pleasure of the Pope. Priests (at least parish priests) can't move where they want; they're assigned. They can't change their 'jobs' without permission, and if they want to leave the priesthood, they have to petition the Vatican to do so. So for the judge to say that priests aren't 'employees' of the Vatican is just hogwash!
We as tax payers support the Catholic Church and all of the other churches. All of these religious organizations are tax exempt and deductible from your income tax. I can see this exempt status for the money going to charitable work, but not to keep the church properties and governing units going.
If you want to give to a church, give, but don't go looking for a tax deduction.
 @rockguy better off giving to an actual food bank or homeless shelter or something like that I think.
 @rockguy Only a portion of a churches income is tax deductible. The rules are fairly complex.
Here's an easy way to tell...who's writing their paychecks? Â They don't pay themselves.
@stamperzann They take 10% of everyone attending their church
 @stamperzann I'm pretty sure that Catholic priests are paid by their local parish, otherwise by the local diocese. The whole thing from Vatican on down is more like a franchise operation than a mega corporation.
Mormons sure do love Catholics these days.