Survey: plastic bag bans tied to increase in shoplifting
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SEATTLE -- If Washington state grocers did the math, the number eight would equal thousands.
That's because, in the eight months since enacting a ban on plastic bags in stores, Seattle merchants have lost untold thousands of dollars in merchandise, industry experts said.
"Across the United States we have seen these bag bans, and the shoplifting has always had a substantial leap," said Jan Gee, president of the Washington Food Industry Association, "and so it was not a surprise to us."
In fact, one in five Seattle businesses say increased shoplifting due to the bag ban is a problem. The results were published in a survey by Seattle Public Utilities last month and originally reported in the seattlepi.com.
"I've actually seen (the shoplifting) happen," said Seattle resident Ramona Lund, as she stood at the heart of Wallingford's shopping district. "You can just see when they walk through and they load up their bag and they just go out the door."
Store owners report people walking into stores, hiding items in a reusable bag, and walking out, Gee said. The difficulty is in telling what comes into the shop concealed in a bag versus what is going out.
The problem isn't contained to Seattle, she added, given the rising popularity of recycled bags across Puget Sound.
"We're having increasing problems along the I-5 corridor with organized retail crime," Gee said. "They're the ones that start shoving these products in these reusable bags, in their clothing, so it's quite organized and it's difficult for our stores in those kinds of cases."
Most shoppers were stunned when asked about the connection between shoplifting and reusable bags.
"Wow. That's unfortunate," said Sam Bernoski of Seattle, before popping into a Wallingford grocery store. "I hadn't heard anything of that, but obviously that's no good."
"I never shoplifted in my life so I can't speak to that," added shopper Amanda Franklin, "(but) I could see how that could happen."
Dick Lilly, who oversees the plastic bag ban for Seattle Public Utilities, couched the survey results showing the link between reusable bags and shoplifting.
"Even though the stores saw some level of a problem, the overall feeling is that this isn't much of a problem," Lilly said.
Industry experts add that the thefts hurt all shoppers in the long run.
"This adds to our food costs. We have to absorb those losses," Gee said. "All of those customers are paying for that loss."
That's because, in the eight months since enacting a ban on plastic bags in stores, Seattle merchants have lost untold thousands of dollars in merchandise, industry experts said.
"Across the United States we have seen these bag bans, and the shoplifting has always had a substantial leap," said Jan Gee, president of the Washington Food Industry Association, "and so it was not a surprise to us."
In fact, one in five Seattle businesses say increased shoplifting due to the bag ban is a problem. The results were published in a survey by Seattle Public Utilities last month and originally reported in the seattlepi.com.
"I've actually seen (the shoplifting) happen," said Seattle resident Ramona Lund, as she stood at the heart of Wallingford's shopping district. "You can just see when they walk through and they load up their bag and they just go out the door."
Store owners report people walking into stores, hiding items in a reusable bag, and walking out, Gee said. The difficulty is in telling what comes into the shop concealed in a bag versus what is going out.
The problem isn't contained to Seattle, she added, given the rising popularity of recycled bags across Puget Sound.
"We're having increasing problems along the I-5 corridor with organized retail crime," Gee said. "They're the ones that start shoving these products in these reusable bags, in their clothing, so it's quite organized and it's difficult for our stores in those kinds of cases."
Most shoppers were stunned when asked about the connection between shoplifting and reusable bags.
"Wow. That's unfortunate," said Sam Bernoski of Seattle, before popping into a Wallingford grocery store. "I hadn't heard anything of that, but obviously that's no good."
"I never shoplifted in my life so I can't speak to that," added shopper Amanda Franklin, "(but) I could see how that could happen."
Dick Lilly, who oversees the plastic bag ban for Seattle Public Utilities, couched the survey results showing the link between reusable bags and shoplifting.
"Even though the stores saw some level of a problem, the overall feeling is that this isn't much of a problem," Lilly said.
Industry experts add that the thefts hurt all shoppers in the long run.
"This adds to our food costs. We have to absorb those losses," Gee said. "All of those customers are paying for that loss."
Simple solution, no one goes out the door without having their bags checked. Just think of all the new jobs that will be created at stores across the USA : ) Â Employment Recovery and Merchandise Recovery. In addition, those who get caught will be penalized monetarily or even incarcerated, so criminals will finally be getting what they deserve and the good people will be seeing justice served as it should be. However, if you find having your bags checked on the way out, to be a violation of some sort of right, well, it's that or prices that will continue to go up at an ever increasing rate. Personally, I'd prefer to be checked on the way out and keep prices low, if that's what it would take.
@ThinkN_Do Problem is, you have to pay that person to stand there and check bags. It comes down to what is more expensive, the theft loss, or paying that person. The other problem, is it comes across as non-trusting which is one thing if you are Walmart or Costco- people seem to understand it at those big huge places, but if you are smaller neighborhood market, comes across as, shall I say, unfolksy.
If I was a shoplifter in Seattle, I will thank the Seattle City Council and the Sierra Club for making my shoplifting routine so much easier. I can just place the items I plan to rip off in my reusable bag and walk out of the store. The only way to stop me while keeping this ban on plastic bags and requiring everybody use reusable tote bags is to implement the system used in the former Soviet Union where everyone gets in line for a bread handout: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
Wait justa minute.We're supposed to believe that before the bag ban no criminal thought of stuffing last week's plastic Safeway bag in his pocket, going to a Safeway and loading it, and walking out with his loot pretending he just purchased it?
Or is the problem that stores are now stupid enough to let people do it?
Everyone is missing the point on this. We should not care about the consequences of worthless and destructive regulation. The only important thing is that Liberals feel good about themselves. Banning anything makes them feel so warm inside.Â
But even that not longer matters since we are all going to die from Obama's sequestration.
Simple... just impose harsher sentences on these chronic thief's...stealing is stealing... remove a limb... or just take them out back and shoot them.. the laws protect these criminals too much anyway!
I've been using the same nylon-lined reusable bags for several years and there is no indication of any bacteria growing in them. Mine are also insulated to some degree so they tend to keep frozen/refrigerated items cooler during the trip home. They are substantial enough that they can carry far more weight than the plastic bags so I use two reusable bags instead of four to six flimsy plastic bags. My reusable bags stand up by themselves rather than flop over and spill the contents as do plastic bags.
As for those that use the plastic bags for garbage or pet waste...my experience is that the plastic "store" bags more often than not have holes in the bottom or will develop a hole if you put "nasty" in them. I stopped at Target last night and bought enough to fill two plastic bags, both had hole in them by the time I got home and unpacked.
This doesn't surprise me at all. I was thinking about this just last week, wondering how anyone could prove what you had in your bag originally, and how easy it would be to take something that you didn't pay for.Â
@andrewsfam It doesn't make sense. I don't get how this was different before the bag ban when a perp could walk into a store with one of their plastic bags in his pocket and walk out pretending he just purchased the loot in the bag.
Who would have thought that the government intruding on private transactions between a business and a customer allowing for no choice by the parties involved would end badly.  The last thing we should ever do is pass more laws we should look at how we can increase freedom rather than decrease it.  Maybe a sales tax break or a small credit if you bring a reusable bag. But no the state needs to throw away more money passing more nanny state laws.
@APenny4MyThoughts While I do agree with you in this instance it is city government, not state, to blame.
@Furd @APenny4MyThoughts Ah dang you are correct, the laws are local and I slipped and said state, good eye friend.
Oh, for the love of GOD!!!! I have a more accurate headline:
"Lack of money tied to increase in shoplifting"
Yeah, lets blame this $hi! on plastic bag bans!!! What the HELL is happening to this country??
I bet the Spotted Owl is partying tonight with his buddies in his comfy plastic bag nest.............that they pilfered from a recycle bin in Fremont....
"Nanny State Unintended Consequences 101 For Dummies" seems to get canceled every year at our institutes of "higher" learning.
Or the stores could actually do their part and actually stop these shoplifters. What's the point of having the cameras, devices and security if they don't do anything?
@Zoso A very well-liked employee of a local Fred Meyer tried to stop a shoplifter and was fired - no, I don't have all the details, but that was the result in her trying to stop someone from stealing. Employees who actually confront someone stealing are in danger of losing their jobs, so why would they try to stop someone?
@tats76Â Well that's technically what I was asking. I heard what I believe is the same story and was left trying to figure out the point of having security if they're not allowed to do anything.
@Zoso it's a liability issue--besides do "you" want to put your life on the line for a can of tuna or some pantyhose? Lots of crazies out there
You people who talk about using plastic bags to pick up doggie doo - please move to my neighborhood!  Around here, people seems to subscribe to the Vegas Philosphy of Doggie Doo:
WHAT HAPPENS ON THE NEIGHBOR'S LAWN STAYS ON THE NEIGHBORS LAWN.  :-(
Well, maybe the shoplifters will get sick from the bacteria that inevitably accumulates in these stupid bags.
Fanatical liberal control of people's lives and businesses is counterproductive. I am certain that Mayor Bloomberg's ban on large soft drinks is dramatically cutting down on obesity too :)... Liberals are mental defectives from the get go!
What I don't get about the bag ban advocates is the failure to understand that if people don't get their disposable plastic grocery bags to use for doggy poop and lining the garbage can they will purchase plastic bags for those purposes. The retail palstic bags are AT LEAST twice the mil thickness of the typical disposable grocery bag. Therefore, the ACTUAL AMOUNT of plastic deposited in the landfill increases. Usually, retail plastic garbage bags are not biodegradeable unless the purchaser pays extra for that option. BTW, how come you are not agitating about plastic beverage containers that put WAY MORE pasttic in the landfill than plastic bags?
Typical Seattle Politician - Stores report a higher level of shoplifting - but don't be alarmed -Â Dick Lilly 'feels' otherwise.
- Dick Lilly, who oversees the plastic bag ban for Seattle Public Utilities
Â
@shamrock178 What about the epidemic of booze shoplifting (that stores won't even discuss) after the voters voted to have it everywhere? Who' is to blame for that?Â
What does that have to do with the plastic bag ban? At least TRY to stay on subject.
@GOATCUTTERThe topic is shoplifting, isn't it?
Citizen raises a valid question. Why is the Washington Food Industry Association belly-aching about shoplifting as it pertains to reusable bags but not as it pertains to liquor, an expensive product that is targeted by thieves?
Only a certain percentage of the population will shoplift. Reusable bags might make shoplifting easier for that percentage, but I donât think they turn many honest shoppers into dishonest ones.
The reason grocers donât like reusable bags, I suspect, is that they put a damper on sales. Many shoppers probably get into an âI canât buy more than my bags will holdâ mindset. With plastic bags, nobody gives the size of their order a second thought.
Meanwhile a few bottles of booze can cost as much as an entire grocery order, yet most stores shelve liquor in an aisle that is a straight shot from the entry. It's a placement that makes liquor harder to monitor and easier to steal, but it's also good for business. Stores want customers to know where the liquor is and maybe walk past it on their way to the milk.
It shows that in the grocery business, convenience is king.
It is a mess in Bellingham also, you can't bring your backpack or large purse in a store unless you leave it with a cashier. Â Difficult to shop at multiple stores for bus riders. Â I have walked out of a store, because my backpack is loaded with books and electronic devices, and I am not leaving it with just anyone. Â This is a college/retirement town and it is a hassle to shop. Â I may start driving to Skagit county once a week to shop, I hope the bag ban is recalled. Â What a waste...
How is that feel good law working out now. Wait until the real cost of the 5 sick days a year kick in. Yep I hope it all feels good.Â
"Alright kids, now just sit back and enjoy another hilarious episode of, "Seattle Knows Best!"
Personally, I do most all of our shopping outside the city now. Â Banning plastic bags is just another stupid move by the city council and mayor. Â What are they up to, trying to remind us they are there? Â I'll not be voting for any of them again, but unfortunately my fellow voters seem to have very short memories...
@Ron You leave the city in order to avoid paying 5 cents?Â
@Hountoof @RonÂ
5 cents PER bag. Bags (inlcluding plastic) are free in the greater Seattle area - and 97 percent of Washington State. Why shouldn't we be upset about OUR nickels?
@shamrock178 @Hountoof @Ron I think it creates good incentive to purchase a reusable bag. It really doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I think people complain too much.
Nice job, hippies.
@Pahana "hippies?"  You mean people that actually care about the environment and do something about it?  Too funny.Â
@HallandOates @Pahana he's talking about the Hippies who decided that killing more trees - resulting in 57 percent more paper bags used in Seattle, than in 2010 was a good idea. You hippies did something 'about it' alright - in a very bad, bad, way.
@HallandOates @PahanaÂ
YEP! That is who he means! Keep fooling yourselves that you are doing something about it....I will keep using plastics, driving my SUV & gas guzzling BMW, no caring if the products I use were made from recycled materials or "organic.....
@GOATCUTTERÂ Well, unless you're only going to use your reusable bag once, it shouldn't matter that there is twice as much plastic used since you're not throwing it out after one use.
@justsumguy @Hountoof @HallandOates @Pahana Well than why do you care what we do in Seattle?
@Alert Eagle @Hountoof @HallandOates Well since you're the one making assertions I think you should produce a source. I know that the reusable bags that I have are not falling apart after years of use. I don't where you're getting that info but there are probably many different types of reusable bags made with varying degrees of durability depending on the craftsmanship and fabrics used.
And the purchased bags contain AT LEAST twice as much plastic for the same size bag as the ones that used to be available at the grocery store. And they are usually not biodegradeable unless you pay extra.
@justsumguy You left out sawing the fins off of sharks for some soup without a care in the world. Otherwise a pretty good list. But you have company, the international students in my area apparently have never heard of recycling.Â
@Hountoof @justsumguy @HallandOates @PahanaÂ
Nope, I just live where there are not silly laws....I go to the store, get my bags in plastic, pay no extra for them and then use them to empty the cat litter box and throw them in the trash......like I said keep thinking you are doing something.......
@Hountoof@HallandOates
Do some research. It takes 174 times more energy to produce one reusable bag than it does one plastic bag. Problem is the reusable bags fall apart long before even 50 uses.
Also keep in mind that most folks reused the plastic bags for garbage or picking up after Fido, now they have to purchase bags for these uses.
@justsumguy @HallandOates @Pahana It's people like you that make laws to protect the environment necessary.
This is a problem begging for a great solution: the drive through grocery store. Like grocery shopping online, you would shop from home at your leisure, pay your bill, download your receipt and one hour later or whenever, you indicate you will be coming, you drive up to the window, show your receipt and someone loads your car with your groceries in their own store brand bags. In return, you hand over your empties for laundering. Store could charge a small deposit for each bag handed out, with a credit for bags returned.
If you have 10 or fewer items, there could be an Express lane: items available for pickup in 20 minutes.
If you feel a need to handle the produce yourself, there could be a small outdoor produce area, separate from the canned/boxed/dry goods. Or you could rely on the store staff, knowing the produce hasn't been picked through, squeezed and sneezed upon by random shoppers. Less damaged produce in the dumpster. That saves money.
Inside employees would fill orders and prepare bags, knowing the check has already cleared the bank. No more shoplifting, no more grocery carts all over the dang neighborhood. No more plastic if that's your thing.Â
So there is the million dollar idea - go for it.
@Juliana ...so they can give you the crappiest produce that they are trying desperately to unload.......
@Juliana these r people refusing to bag!