Police shoot man following Greenwood hostage situation
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SEATTLE -- A Tuesday night hostage situation in Greenwood ended violently when police shot a man.
Officers first responded to a domestic violence call in the 10100 block of 4th Avenue NW at roughly 7:30 p.m. Police say one member of a family was holding his father hostage and threatening him with a knife.
When they arrived on scene moments later, police made contact with both men and were able to separate father and son, according to Mark Jamieson with Seattle police.
While they were talking to him outside, police say the son, who is in his 40s, suddenly tried to run back into the house. An officer used a Taser on the man, but it wasn't effective because of the clothes he was wearing, Jamieson said.
The man then took off on foot and police gave chase. The brief foot chase ended when the man suddenly stopped and ducked down behind a parked car.
"As officers were approaching, he reached in like he was grabbing for something," Jamieson said. "Officers did not know if he had a weapon. He came out with a very large piece of metal, which he raised above his head toward the officers. At that point officers were forced to fire their duty weapons, and the man was struck."
Medics rushed the man to Harborview Medical Center. No officers were injured and police are continuing to investigate the shooting.
Neighbor Dana Donaly was outside when the shooting happened.
"I was just watching and it was just a lot of commotion. The police were yelling to get down," he said.
Moments later, Donaly said he heard seven to nine gunshots.
"Officers have to make split second decisions every single day on just about every call they go to. Things can happen that quickly," Jamieson said.
Officers first responded to a domestic violence call in the 10100 block of 4th Avenue NW at roughly 7:30 p.m. Police say one member of a family was holding his father hostage and threatening him with a knife.
When they arrived on scene moments later, police made contact with both men and were able to separate father and son, according to Mark Jamieson with Seattle police.
While they were talking to him outside, police say the son, who is in his 40s, suddenly tried to run back into the house. An officer used a Taser on the man, but it wasn't effective because of the clothes he was wearing, Jamieson said.
The man then took off on foot and police gave chase. The brief foot chase ended when the man suddenly stopped and ducked down behind a parked car.
"As officers were approaching, he reached in like he was grabbing for something," Jamieson said. "Officers did not know if he had a weapon. He came out with a very large piece of metal, which he raised above his head toward the officers. At that point officers were forced to fire their duty weapons, and the man was struck."
Medics rushed the man to Harborview Medical Center. No officers were injured and police are continuing to investigate the shooting.
Neighbor Dana Donaly was outside when the shooting happened.
"I was just watching and it was just a lot of commotion. The police were yelling to get down," he said.
Moments later, Donaly said he heard seven to nine gunshots.
"Officers have to make split second decisions every single day on just about every call they go to. Things can happen that quickly," Jamieson said.
And the lesson to be learned here?: Obey the LEO's commands and (perhaps) live to see another day. It's better to be judged by 12 than it is to be carried by 6.
Jack was 21. He is my nephew, and my Brother, his Dad, has Cancer. It is clear my nephew had Mental Issue's. He has fought these demons all his short life. He has been instituted for this most of his life. he was not trash or any other names any of
you felt you needed to call him....After reading all the comments, it occurred to me that
to many times, people don't get the whole story.....May you rest in Peace now Jack ~From your Montana and Colorado Family ~
This guy was convicted of randomly attacking a woman at Carkeek last year. Sounds like we've just emptied the trash is what the cops did. Well done officers!
"fatally shot a man multiple times" -- Unless he was a zombie (not mentioned), once would certainly be enough.
@Ben Ezzell Really?  You watch too much TV if you think one shot is always effective. Â
@Datsuyama @Ben Ezzell but it always works in the war movies... ok... well the pre-1985 war movies
@Datsuyama @Ben Ezzell If you will pay attention -- carefully -- unless he is a zombie, he can only be killed ONCE ... therefore, there is only one FATAL shot. There may be several which are POTENTIALLY fatal but only one which is. Does that clear up your obvious confusion?
@Ben Ezzell @Datsuyama I hear you, we all have our pet peeves.  Your brevity didn't give me enough to understand your point I guess... But could be I'm just dense... it happens to me on occasion.Â
@Datsuyama @Ben Ezzell As an author and as an editor (as well as a prior newspaperman), I do have some limits ... this one simply breached my defenses.
@Ben Ezzell @Datsuyama Okay, I see what you're saying... nitpicking the sentence structure... got it.
Half of the people here are just scumbags trolling every chance they get to bash the cops. Nearly the other half are just ill informed.
I am going to make this simple. It really isnt any more difficult than this. If you try to convince a cop you are armed and going to attack them, they are going to defend themselves and yes, you may get shot. I could go into all the reasons gunshots often dont even fully stop people and they are still able to attack even WITH a fatal wound. Yes, you can have a fatal wound but still continue to fight while you bleed to death. Its happened ALOT.
So for you morons out there that think the cops should tackle some guy with a knife and risk losing an eye, taking a knife to the throat or some other life or career ending injury. Its not going to happen. If you want to sacrifice yourself, go for it. Personally, Ide like to see a KNOW IT ALL CITIZEN FIRST RESPONSE TEAM. That way, when a knife wielding guy is on the street, the cops can send you in to try to disarm them first. AWESOME!
@Get it Right I'm with you on this one. There seem to be a lot of opinions on how this could have ended with "Happily  Ever After..." However, when you attack someone with a weapon, the first responders do need to act. Granted, I'm sure the perpetrator is not resting comfortably after being shot repeatedly.....but I really dont have sympathy for him, after all it was his actions that initiated police response.Â
And just what would you do if confronted by a physco wielding a large piece of metal over their heads and advancing (presumably) towards you. Oh yeah, you have a taser, you have a pistol, and you have the gift of gab. You already know the taser doesn't work because your partner already tried and it didn't penetrate his clothes. You already know the gift of gab doesn't work because you told him to stop running, and he kept going.  Some of you people who arm chair quarterback everything need to get up out of the easy chair, throw on some clothes and get out in the real world and maybe take a ride along with your local LEO (that's Law Enforcement Officer for some of you bozos). I do believe you will change your attitude about what they do and how they do it.Donât request a ride along with the parking enforcement officer, though thatâs about all some of you could handle.
They could have wounded the guy, but its a judgment call. They are trained to never wound just kill. As LAkeview said they could have tried to just capture the guy, they had plenty of officers on the scene. But their junk training tells them to shoot first and deal with the paperwork latter.
@Blindman Negative! They are not trained to "kill", they are trained to stop the threat. It ain't Hollywood where the cop shoots the weapon out of the hand of the bad guy.Â
Think back a few years where 5-6 King County Deputies tried to wrestle a guy to the ground only to have the guy pull a revolver from his waiste band, fire 6 shots, hitting 3 of the deputies.
The guy made his bed, now he has to sleep in it.
In Britain they would have laughed at this guy holding a "piece of metal" and beaten him down with billy clubs.Â
In America, everyone is assumed to have a gun hiding in their pants somewhere, so shoot to death. Â
Yes it's the Wild West out here folks. And the gun crazed people wouldn't have it any other way.Â
@lakeview Maybe you need to go back to Britain
@lakeview What I don't understand is why you America haters don't leave. Is the welfare too good here?
@lakeview Good old Lakeview, ALWAYS supporting the criminal.
@lakeview So tell us, how should they have handled this? How would you handle a person who has already exhibited violent tendencies and raises a piece of metal over his head and came at you? I see a very simple solution to this scenario: the suspect should have 1) Not held his father hostage at knife point 2) Put the piece of metal down when told to by the cops.Â
Don't put the onus on the cops who have EVERY RIGHT to defend themselves against deadly force with deadly force. Or, are you saying that a man with a piece of metal can't kill another person?Â
@jlynnhood  It's the country we live in. I'm not saying that the cops weren't justified. All I'm saying is that they did this because in our country everyone has guns. We are a gun culture.Â
@lakeview @jlynnhood lakeview - they didn't do it because they thought he had a gun, they did it because of the imminent threat of deadly force posed by the piece of metal being raised and the guy advancing on them. Â
Hello, lakeview...you still here?Â
@lakeview Well, your comment seems to question the actions of the police, referring to how you presume cops in Britain would have handled this. (BTW, a call like this [person with a weapon] would have been met with armed police in Britain - they do have armed police for situations like this).  Again, how should they have handled this?
@lakeview
With all these "gun crazed" people about, what do you suggest for self defense?
@marsneedswomen @lakeview  The answer is always more guns. Duh...
@lakeview @marsneedswomen So what is your answer
@JLS1950 @NW-Economist @marsneedswomen @lakeviewThat's a complicated leap. The simple answer here is you can't always trust the police.Â
@NW-Economist @marsneedswomen @lakeview So... ah... is it your assertion or position that the answer to this sort of police killing is that Menezes should have been able to carry a concealed firearm himself so that he might "defend himself" against the reckless behavior of these police officers?
@marsneedswomen @lakeviewBakedview smoked one too many today, he meant to say in Britain the police randomly executed innocents while criminals get away.Â
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
@lakeview
So what model do you pack?
@marsneedswomen @lakeview Hug a thug
@DarkPartyÂ
In Britain they only beat down the law-abiding citizens. The hooligans get a walk.
I'm pretty grateful no LEO's were injured and not going home to their families. I think they did use good judgment they negotiated the two individuals apart and the suspect may have made his last bad decision. I'm sorry for his family.
Sounds like a good shoot to me. Good riddance. Anyone who acts the way he did and makes the choices he made is obviously a danger to society in general.  There is no purpose for someone like him.
Make this a point folks! Don't even have a ammich in your hands when confronted by Police, they'll kill you for the sammich!!Â
In all seriousness, this particular situation looks to ME anyway like a good shoot. Never know exactly what someone's got when it's like that. Unfortunate for the dude shot, but he's the one that raised something up to hit Police with, or so it appears. He could have made a different choice and avoided being shot.Â
That said, Police are indeed very trigger happy and I don't trust them one bit. It's apparently perfectly OK to kill anyone they feel like. All one has to do is say "Your Honor, I was afeered fer m'life!" and that is that! It doesn't matter if a "suspect", say, a drunk, deaf man with a block of wood and a carving knife, is obviously no threat whatsoever. Get away cleanly!Â
Used to be a time when FBI were trained to shoot at the hips to take a crazy man down. Can't blame law enforment for not taking chances, especially now-a-days.
The police should be included in the gun confiscation laws! How many shots were fired? Something that "looked" like metal? Just another "ham sandwich" the SS Gestapo use to kill a scared citizen. Talk about "gun happy"!!! Wasn't the boy behind a car? Does the police have negotiation-communication skills? Apparently not. I will never call for help from the police! They would end up killing me!Â
@Raleigh I'd much rather have this ending than the tragedy in Santa Cruz, CA yesterday. And for you Raleigh, get a clue. But thank you in advance for not calling for police assistance, I'm holding you to that.
@Raleigh  Good, don't call the police for help, they are under staffed anyway.Â
@Raleigh"... police say the son, who is in his 40s... " Hardly a boy, but wow nice hyperbole you spew...if they Taser you, then you run and hide...then come at them with something in an attack position, well don't expect them to want to shake your hand...and mind you all this was after he had his own father held hostage with a knife... you are right the cops obviously overreacted.Â
The only important information here is that the officers were not injured. Now the police should go back and kick the father in the nutz for raising a complete idiot for a son.
how far away where the cops
he raised it above his head is not a threat unless you are in striking distance or he runs at you
@billibobOut of curiosity, how close do you feel he needs to be to be a credible threat?
@Datsuyama @billibob Google "Tueller drill"....an adversary closer than 21 feet can close the distance and stab or strike you before you can draw your gun from the holster. I'd be drawing further away than that, if possible.
@Jalharad @jlynnhood Correct, Jalharad.  I'll tell you this much - if I were holding him at gunpoint and he took one step in my direction, just one, I'd shoot him.  There is no way you want someone with an edged weapon to get close to you.  People (not necessarily you but some people) tend to think, "It's just a knife" but they've obviously not seen how devastating a knife can be.Â
@jlynnhood exactly.  21 feet and they still get to stick you at least once.  Which, to me, is once too many.  Closer and they get to stick you more and more. Â
@dg54321 @Datsuyama @billibob Thank you, someone with some sense... and knowledge. Â
@Jalharah That is true, good point.
@jlynnhood course that is assuming that your gun is holstered. 21 feet is plenty of space to pull the trigger when you already have your gun out (like the police did)
@Datsuyama @billibob @dg54321  Actually, the "Tueller drill" has recently been debunked (for the lack of a better term) as insufficient. The teaching now is up to 30 feet to properly defend yourself from and armed adversary with a knife of other weapon.  21 feet is way too close.
@billibob Thank you for your input ACLU representative billibob! In the future you will be called whenever lethal force is being considered, and you will be set in front of the hostile to peacefully resolve it with words and hugs.