New CenturyLink gun policy riles law enforcement
»Play Video
SEATTLE -- Company officials say the decision to ban firearms at CenturyLink Field is a safety issue, but the move has touched a nerve with many local law enforcement agents.
CenturyLink management has decided that off-duty officers going to events at CenturyLink as fans can no longer bring guns through the gates.
That move isn't sitting well with many officers, who say bringing their weapons to events while off duty is part of their job to protect and serve, even as spectators.
On game day, more than 60,000 Seahawks fans pour into CenturyLink Field. Among the crowd are off-duty officers there to enjoy the game and, until recently, those fans were allowed to carry firearms.
Officer Erik Wickman is a member of the State Fraternal Order of Police. He said the decision was a tough blow and said he's dismayed there was no conversation before the policy was introduced.
In a letter to law enforcement, CenturyLink's general manager said the decision is in the best interest of public safety, writing, "We currently have an abundance of uniformed police officers working every event at the stadium and we feel that CenturyLink Field is perhaps one of the safest venues ..."
That explanation isn't good enough for Wickman.
"The reality is you can have all the uniformed officers you want, but the criminals will be able to identify them and avoid the areas where they are," he said.
The change comes after two unarmed and off-duty Bellevue Police officers were kicked out of the stadium last season for unruly behavior.
Many officers work in units that require them to remain armed at all times. The other concern for off-duty police is that they're recognizable and could be vulnerable during games, never knowing when they might see someone they've arrested.
While many officers are upset about the new policy, some civilians believe it's the right thing to do.
"I guess my first thought is that they should be required to do whatever the average citizen can do, and if the average citizen isn't allowed to take a concealed weapon in then I'm not sure police officers should be either," said Erica Rintoul.
The president of the Seattle Police Officers Guild said the policy is "misguided" and "insulting." He said department policy allows officers to use their discretion when to carry while off duty.
"From the moment we graduate the academy we have the tools we need to make those decisions and take action if necessary, and all of us -- without exception -- hope we never ever have to do that, but we need to be ready if it happens and when it happens," Wickman said.
CenturyLink management has decided that off-duty officers going to events at CenturyLink as fans can no longer bring guns through the gates.
That move isn't sitting well with many officers, who say bringing their weapons to events while off duty is part of their job to protect and serve, even as spectators.
On game day, more than 60,000 Seahawks fans pour into CenturyLink Field. Among the crowd are off-duty officers there to enjoy the game and, until recently, those fans were allowed to carry firearms.
Officer Erik Wickman is a member of the State Fraternal Order of Police. He said the decision was a tough blow and said he's dismayed there was no conversation before the policy was introduced.
In a letter to law enforcement, CenturyLink's general manager said the decision is in the best interest of public safety, writing, "We currently have an abundance of uniformed police officers working every event at the stadium and we feel that CenturyLink Field is perhaps one of the safest venues ..."
That explanation isn't good enough for Wickman.
"The reality is you can have all the uniformed officers you want, but the criminals will be able to identify them and avoid the areas where they are," he said.
The change comes after two unarmed and off-duty Bellevue Police officers were kicked out of the stadium last season for unruly behavior.
Many officers work in units that require them to remain armed at all times. The other concern for off-duty police is that they're recognizable and could be vulnerable during games, never knowing when they might see someone they've arrested.
While many officers are upset about the new policy, some civilians believe it's the right thing to do.
"I guess my first thought is that they should be required to do whatever the average citizen can do, and if the average citizen isn't allowed to take a concealed weapon in then I'm not sure police officers should be either," said Erica Rintoul.
The president of the Seattle Police Officers Guild said the policy is "misguided" and "insulting." He said department policy allows officers to use their discretion when to carry while off duty.
"From the moment we graduate the academy we have the tools we need to make those decisions and take action if necessary, and all of us -- without exception -- hope we never ever have to do that, but we need to be ready if it happens and when it happens," Wickman said.
This is not a case of US v THEM. Local LEO have shown some eratic behavior and the answer is simple. Allow only Federal Officers to carry and disarm everyone else. Having uniformed and armed TSA agents replace the local police and having armed off duty TSA agents in the crowd would make me feel safer. This could start a trend to replace local yokels and good old boys with trusted G-Men. The idea of replacing Barney Fife with a steely eyed Elliot Ness type is the way to move FORWARD!
 @dirkmanchest I don't know about everyone else but I'd feel much *less* safe with the TSA "securing" a stadium. I sure hope you are joking. TSA is a complete joke and a waste of taxpayer money.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If LAWFUL CCW holders aren't allowed then why should police be elevated above the average citizen? Are they better than the common person? Are they more virtuous?
As outlined in State law, I believe they are permitted. However, they do not have law enforcement authority, so there are some very significant issues to be resolved. As a result, this could be an issue addressed by the legislature at a later date.
This is a state owned facility, managed cooperatively through a state commission called the Washington State Public Stadium Authority and a private organization called First and Goal Inc. As such, prohibiting law enforcement from carrying thier firearms, on or off duty, is illegal according to State law (RCW 9.41.060). Even if the stadium were owned by a city or county, RCW 9.41.300 and RCW 9.41.290, would prohibit them from enacting laws prohibiting law enforcement from carrying their firearms. The legislature has made it very clear, when it comes to publically owned facilities, with some exceptions, they make the laws governing firearm possession. Unless the Washington State legislature enacts laws, the managers of CenturyLink field have no legal authority to prohibit law enforcement from carrying their firearms. I am a police officer and can be called to "on-duty" status any time I witness a crime, or other need to be "on duty". Ask any of the police officers who are on duty at CenturyLink, they will tell you that they want the support from other police officers if the need arises, on, or off duty.
 @None SHUT UP!! IF you are a cop, you are probably a lying POS anyway. As for the rest of your post....bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!
 @None I can't support you as a police officer unless you are willing to stand up for the self-defense rights of non-officers.  Unless police, as a group, stand up in a very public way to support the self-defense rights of non-police, they can't expect any support from me.  This means pressuring your guilds and other police groups to stand up for self-defense in a very public way.
CenturyLink should not punish the public, yes the PUBLIC, over 2 off-duty cops idiotic actions. Â The more armed cops (on or off-duty) the better. Â Research past incidents where armed off-duty cops have saved lives
One of many, many many examples...."Off-duty cop stops armed robbery at Starbucks"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExPS58HLYTk
Â
If you don't like the policy don't go. Â Simple as that!
 @usecommonsense If you don't like police, don't call 911 for help.  Simple as that!
If off duty officers are going to get drunk and belligerent then they shouldn't carry guns. I wouldn't want some drunk guy with a gun sitting next to me at a football game. This is what they deserve for not being responsible. I imagine that Centurylink has something to say about what goes on in the stadium since their name is all over it.
The article didn't say they were armed when they were removed. All police departments have regulations on how much an officer can drink when he is armed and out while off duty.
@Victor Purchase  The article specifically said that they were NOT armed but from previous articles about this, we know that they were NOT SEARCHED so its safe to assume that now we are going to believe their statements that they were unarmed. I am sure that at the beginning of the day, they thought rationally "hey, since we are going to get belligerently drunk, we bettter leave our guns at home (but not our badges)". Sounds entirely plausible to me....NOT! The Bellevue PD also has policy on how to act and treat others and that policy wasnt followed either so what makes you think that department policy mattered to those fools at all?  An excerpt from that policy follows:
Â
6.
Private Conduct
The law enforcement employee will be mindful of their special identification by the public as an upholder of the law. Laxity of conduct or manner in private life, expressing either disrespect for the law or seeking to gain special privilege, cannot but reflect upon the police employee and the police service. The community and the service require that the law enforcement employee lead the life of a decent and honorable person. Following the career of a police employee gives no person special prerequisites. It does give the satisfaction of pride of following and furthering an unbroken tradition of safeguarding the American republic. The employee who reflects upon this tradition will not degrade it.
Â
See:
Â
http://www.ci.bellevue.wa.us/pdf/Police/Bellevue_Police_Policy_Manual.pdf
Â
Â
Â
Let's just get it over with and lock up everyone in their homes 24/7. No one goes out, no one comes in. That way no one can get hurt and all of us will be happy.
I still don't understand why this new policy was enacted. The article mentions the Bellevue officers but it doesn't specify if this is why the change occurred. Is SafeCo Field next?
So they have declared the stadium a designated mass murder zone.  I never go unarmed into this type of environment. Either I just ignore the signs, or I just donât go there.  You have to be some sort of idiot to go there, let alone to submit your family to such a deliberately created danger zone. Hey nutcase, we have eliminated any resistance so come in and take your best shot(s). $%$# progressive morons!    Â
The whole area around the stadiums / Pioneer Square is too dangerous to go unarmed. It's isn't the stadium itself really but this definitely doesn't help. I doubt that I'll ever go back there.
 @MajorSkeptic Idiotic statement.  1000's of people go unarmed to this location everyday, nearly always with out incident. Â
Arming yourself, gives you a false sense of security, and will put yourself in a situation that you should stay out of because you are "armed".
It's stupid!
 @usecommonsense  @MajorSkeptic I bet the Tuba man would have like to have been armed when he was beat to death near the stadium...Â
This is outrageous and as a former police officer I am actually kinda embarrassed....for the police kicking and screaming that they can't carry at the statdium. Where do my fellow brother and sister officers think that they are above anyone else in having the ability to protect themselves and/or others at a public event like a Seahawks game?? Where do they think that they are above the average citizen in the training, handling and use of a firearm?? How many veterans do you think attend those games? Veterans like myself who have spent years in the military learning how to handle and use firearms, often in defense of ourselves and others? How many of us, yes I have a concealed carry permit, are just as well trained, responsible and ready to act in defense of ourselves, our loved ones and even you anti-gun citizens if it came to it?? This article makes me sick.
Based on your comment that you are a former police officer I'd guess you are upset that commissioned civilian law enforcement officer in Washington are exempt from concealed carry laws and you can't carry everywhere LEOs can. There is a reason law enforcement officers can carry pretty much anywhere they choose, even into a bar or a school. I'm not particularly worried about my safety while I'm inside Century Link Field, it's the long walk to and from the stadium that concerns me.
As long as they have a badge I don't care where they carry, and they should be able to. I agree that the safety off the field is much more of a concern than in the stadium.
 @Splat If a citizen cannot carry then a government employee should not be able to either.
I'd also like to point out that there have been several incidents that involved off-duty police...
 @Splat They were not armed anyway, though.
@Willow  How do you KNOW that they were unarmed? I read the article where it said that they were NOT armed but from previous articles about this, we know that they were NOT SEARCHED so its safe to assume that now we are going to believe their statements that they were unarmed. I am sure that at the beginning of the day, they thought rationally "hey, since we are going to get belligerently drunk, we bettter leave our guns at home (but not our badges)". Sounds entirely plausible to me....NOT!Â
 @Willow  @Splat Most off duty police are armed.
@Willow off duty is off duty, does it matter if they were armed or not? What if they were armed? Police are held to a higher standard than ordinary citizens but should not be exempt from the same rules that we are expected to follow.
So, my question is; Will the private security-private citizens-of millionaires and billionaires be required to give up their guns? The wealthy citizen too?
Guess the folks at CenturyLink just plain don't want certain people around, not if they are the ilk who actually need fulltime personal security.
 @qwertysplurb The problem is drunken cops acting out when off duty at the game. They probably feel they're not working so its party time. Well, most of us have read the stories about off-duty cops drinking and getting into violent altercations just like 'regular' folks.  Whether the rich are being allowed their security, don't know...but they ARE on the job and probably not downing the beers.
 @Cynthia Nordstrom I get your distinction, and the point of this being response to those bonehead cops. But. To enforce this, CenturyLink has to do it across the board, meaning that the personal security for team owners, actors, singers, and wealthy businessmen at these games will be going into the stadium unarmed. Millionaires and billionaires without protection, advertised nationally. Or, pick and choose searches and wait to get sued.
Washington State Public Stadium Authority to oversee public ownership of the venue and since the Stadium is public owned and operate they cannot restrict firearms per RCW 9.41.290 though in RCW 9.41.300 provides for the city to restrict firearms to those who exempted RCW 9.41.300 (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances: Â Â Â Â (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to: Â Â Â Â (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060;
 @BigDave Have you read the master lease agreement with First & Goal, Inc.?
@BigDave
OK you have my head rolling, but it sounds like if it is run by the state the city/county can not supersede state law. It also sounds like a state agency may not overrule state law? Am I correct? Does this mean that they can not block me with a valid CPP?
 @oldster70  @BigDave I would guess the officers who are unhappy would have pointed out your premise if it were the case. They haven't. Drunk cops have acted in a reckless manner on many occasions, even getting violent, using their gun. If you drink, leave the gun at home. That goes for bars, stadiums,etc.
Let's see, Bellevue cops get in fight at stadium, Seattle cops get in fight at stadium, Dept. of Corrections Lieutenant get in fight at stadium. Rolling around on the ground and the gun comes out........... hmmmmmmm. Alcohol and firearms do not mix. Being a law enforcement officer does not make you smart.
 @justaguard True True Brother
 @justaguard Exactly.
Well, looks like they lost me as a customer........idiots....
No exemptions for cops! Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. If cops are not going to stand up loudly and publicly and as a group in support of the Second Amendment, no exemptions!Â
Your not breaking the law if you enter the stadium with a gun if you have a carry permit or are law enforcement so I say carry them anyways. Make CenturyLink pat everyone down. Search every bag. Install metal detectors. Perform body cavity searches.....
 @Ankle Biter Where is the law enforcement exemption in the RCW?
 @Dean Fuller It's just the Stadium rules..not RCW.
"I guess my first thought is that they should be required to do whatever the average citizen can do, and if the average citizen isn't allowed to take a concealed weapon in then I'm not sure police officers should be either," said Erica Rintoul.
Â
That is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Off-duty police officers are not average citizens, they have sworn police powers even off-duty and are required to act when a felony is in progress. Morons like Erica Rintoul don't seem to understand that. And apparently neither does CenturyLink.Â
 @Dredd57 You are right, they rank lower than average citizens.  They are government employees.   A citizen is more important than any government employee, especially a cop.
They aren't? I guarantee you they put their pants on the same way I do in the morning...one leg at a time. But your right, they are not average citizens, they should be held to a higher standard than us regular folk right? Like drunk driving, fighting, domestic violence, assualt, etc...hey thats right there have been examples of off duty officers doing examples of just about all the above and some of it right there at the stadium...while drinking. They are not above the law, they are not any different than any of us...and many of them would agree. I'm a former deputy and veteran myself. It is every citizens duty to act in the presence of a felony, maybe not legally but morally and trained, responsible gun owners and concealed carry holders are just as likely to act as a off-duty cop.
Just a couple thoughts...
Â
Wahington is an open carry state. You can carry a firearm pretty much anywhere you like.
If you were a police officer, you'd likely arrest many criminals in your tour of duty. Those criminals know your name, badge#, etc.
They hate you. They would love to get even. At your home, a restaurant, family gathering, sports stadium... It doesn't matter.
No officer should be excluded from protecting him/herself from the trash they've taken off the streets. NOWHERE!
Â
This is truly pathetic and a boycott is in order. SUCK it Clink! I think it's time for a new provider for my cable, phone, and internet.Â
And the rest of us shouldn't be afforded the same right to protect ourselves or our love ones, and even other citizens, from the same dangerous criminals??
As a former deputy sheriff you should understand why law enforcement officers should carry weapons off duty. The citizen with a concealed weapons license doesn't arrest people and deprive them of their freedom like police officers do.
I absolutely understand why law enforcement officers should, and do, carry off-duty. As a deputy, when I was off duty I carried pretty much all of the time just like I do now as a civilian with a concealed carry permit. I'm mearly pointing out that there are people out there who wouldn't just target on/off duty LEO...we all know there are crazies out there that would shoot anyone if the breeze hit them right that day. Chances are that crazy wouldn't even know if they were targeting an off-duty LEO vice a regular civilian anyway.  I'm saying that all of us concealed carry holders, and all of us period, deserve the same right to protect ourselves and each other by carrying concealed...not just off-duty officers.