Portland bar owner accused of telling gay patron to stay away
PORTLAND, Ore. - A North Portland bar owner is accused of leaving voicemails telling some customers to stay away because he doesn't want a reputation as a “gay bar.”
As a result of the accusations, the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries is investigating the P Club on North Lombard Street.
P Club owner Chris Penner said he's waiting to receive the full complaint in the mail from BOLI, which states Penner left two messages on a customer's voicemail in June, telling them to stay away lest the bar get a reputation as a gay establishment.
The BOLI complaint said Penner’s first voicemail said "I am going to have to ask for you and your group not to come back on Friday nights. I really don't like having to do that but unfortunately it's the area we are in and it's hurting business a lot."
In the second voice message, the complaint states Penner said "I've done some investigating why my sales are declining and there's two things I keep hearing: people think that a) we're a tranny (trans-sexual) bar or b) we're a gay bar. We are neither. People are not coming in because they just don't want to be there on a Friday night now."
The owner defended himself in an interview with KATU News.
"It’s not true,” Penner said. “We're not a homophobic bar by any means."
"Half my staff is lesbian and gay, so where this whole thing is coming from, I have no idea,” Penner added.
Penner says the P Club has hosted same-sex wedding receptions, gay pride events and a weekly dance party directed toward the gay and lesbian community.
He says the discrimination allegation against him "kind of shocked all of us. My employees are kind of baffled by it. My customers find it kind of humorous because it's the farthest thing from the truth,” Penner said.
Penner said he's still waiting to receive the full complaint from BOLI in the mail.
“I haven't seen it in full detail yet so I really can't talk about anything that I don't know what is all written there,” Penner said about the BOLI complaint.
Penner cited his lawyer's advice when he said he would not address the specifics of the complaint.
"We're not a labeled bar,” he added. “We're not a biker bar. We're not a country-western bar. We're not a gay bar. We're a neighborhood bar that's open to everybody."
Penner said his bar does kick people out but only if they're disrespectful, not because of their sexual orientation.
Officials at BOLI have so far not returned calls from KATU News.
I believe a business owner should have the right to refuse service to anyone they want. If he does not want the business that is up to him. If he wants to keep the less desirables out that should also be up to him. I don't find any fault with him. We need more people to stand up for good morals.
 @Astinious BTW, creating an account just to spew hate is not "standing up for good morals" either.Â
 @Astinious Is discrimination on the basis of gender identity having good morals? Is that what God wanted from his children, to castigate and condemn others? Somehow, I don't think so. BTW, as far as less desirables, you certainly don't appear to be any prize yourself, Astinious. Not at all.Â
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You can believe it's OK to discriminate, but at the end of the day, what's legal is legal, and discrimination such as this is not legal.
I am wondering if the owner was just trying to get rid of a specific person who may be the cause of to much trouble in his bar. One person or a group of people who are disruptive can actually drive away lots of business.
I think there is not enough information here to know what the owners intentions actually were if in fact he did do this.
 @Jatok wondered the same thing - the article states that gay people work there and are welcomed there regularly, so this sounds more like one person is waging a smear campaign for personal reasons.
I've seen the signs in restaurant windows in downtown Seattle saying "we have the right to refuse service".
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Wouldn't that right also apply in this case?
 @HonkeyCat when I bar tend, I view this as my right to refuse service to an already visibly intoxicated person or someone who is behaving inappropriately. I have never viewed it is my license to refuse service to people I just don't like.
 @HonkeyCat Not if he is refusing service in a way that very specifically violates civil rights law, which in Oregon includes kicking anyone out because of their sexual preference. It is the difference between kicking someone out because they're black, and kicking out a black guy for punching a server in the face. Big difference.
Penner says the P Club has hosted same-sex wedding receptions, gay pride events and a weekly dance party directed toward the gay and lesbian community.
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IF Penner supports/promotes these types of events at his bar then what does he expect. I'd label his bar at a minimum gay friendly...and when enough gay folks start showing up on a regular basis which seems to be what is going on I'd label it a gay bar. He created his own problem by catering to a specific group or by trying to be all things to all people and it's not working.. Bars often identify and promote events that appeal to a particular demographic.
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I go to a local bar and they occasionally have a band that has a a gay following. I don't relate to that crowd and I'm not a fan of the groups musical style to boot so I don't go when they play - no harm no foul. No one is insulted, no one is discriminated against ...
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Let's take the sexual orientation out of the equation - ever see a country bar have rap groups.... That would be interesting.....
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HOWEVER - back to Penner - it is WRONG to call these patron homes.
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Anyone who hear the voicemail in question should obviously hear it's Chris Penner stating that people are not showing up to his bar because they think it's a tranny bar and that money is the reason why the patrons in question are no longer welcome. Mr. Penner is in some deep trouble unless he can prove he had just cause to eliminate the individuals in question out of his bar. The fact that other gay/lesbian folk and that there are gay/lesbian staff tells me that these individual were kicked out because they are trans/cross-dressers/fem. Discrimination is discrimination.Â
They should stop having "Gladiator Movie Night" and have the "HGTV" turned off.
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How about "Straight Night" where all the guys can sit around the piano and sing lumberjack songs and wrist-wrestle and discuss who is the better entertainer, Bette Midler or Liza!
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Did I mention the time that I was refused entry to the old Watertown on 1st Ave back in the 80's? Because I was straight and it was lesbian night. (I was meeting a friend) True story. Ah, those were the days. Couple a belts at the Frontier Room (their definition of  "shot" was most generous!) and then on to the Vogue or Watertown.
I don't think a business can discriminate against a minority group at all but I think it's going too far. What if the man has a point? What if he really is losing business? There are many people that would be put off by a bar they thought was a gay bar and they would simply go some place else. Doesn't the man have a right to protect his business? Can't we as business owners promote the type of crowd we are trying to attract? I'm not talking about race her either. I'm talking about certain behaviors. I don't have a problem with gay people, but I have a real problem with gay people flaunting their sexuality and hitting on me when I'm a straight man. If I even thought a bar had a large gay crowd I would avoid it.Â
 @FremontTroll So, you don't think a business can discriminate, but you want them to discriminate against gay people because their gayness makes you uncomfortable. Then you say "I have no problem with gay people" although you make a post describing how you basically avoid them because of said discomfort.
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The twists and turns homophobes will go through to justify their irrational bigotry is always laughable.Â
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So, tell me, how do you as a person not have an issue with homosexuality when go out of their way to disassociate with gay people? Tell us all, Fremont. And BTW, tell us all how the "behavior" of being gay (LOL) is somehow justifiable to discriminate against. We'll be waiting.
 @David Robertson The difference is being a certain race is normal. I don't think 99% of any American would tolerate a business saying "no blacks allowed." Whether you agree or not, many people believe homosexuality is a behavior. It's something that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. But just for arguments sake I will say there is an exception to the above rule. Let's say you own a bar and you have a large hip-hop crowd and you are having too many violent incidents and calls to the police. In that case I would say it would be OK to try to convert the type of patrons that your bar caters to. You can't say No Blacks Allowed outright but there are other subtle ways to promote your bar to the crowd you are trying to attract. If a bar is trying to clean up its act I don't see that as discrimination at all. As a business owner it is his right to decide who he serves. Put the best interest of your business first. It's a competitive business world out there, if the gay community is making his regular patrons go away he needs to do what he has to do.Â
 @FremontTroll Normal? Really? Sorry, but throwing that word out there doesn't help your argument. Especially considering, yes, gay folk are a normal part of every-day society. Just because you don't like that due to insecurity/discomfort reasons doesn't change that. Just because other people have discomfort issues doesn't change that. Homosexuality isn't the issue; your discomfort surrounding the issue is.Â
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Now, sexual orientation is not a behavior, it's an ORIENTATION. Hence, an immutable state of mind. With that being said, a hip-hop crowd bringing violence to the bar is not anywhere near the same as discriminating against people for who they are when they are not breaking any bar rules. Violence is traditionally against rules of any bar. Of course, people will want to stay safe and disassociate themselves with any potential violence. But simply being gay, is not a crime. You may think it is, but it's not. Being gay is not a crime, and thus, it's not a valid reason to deny a patron service.Â
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Discrimination is discrimination, and at the end of the day, it's about what is legal. That comes first. And as far as we can see, this isn't even about "the gay community" and more about a certain group that is being targeted. So you're actually making analogies based on something that isn't even happening. But, hey, good try, Fremont. Â
 @FremontTroll "I don't think 99% of any American would tolerate a business saying "no blacks allowed.""...
And yet don't you homophobes keep telling us not to compare the gay rights issue to that of the Blacks in the 50' & 60's - because it's "not a race issue!"?
@FremontTroll  Ah, the old "I have a problem with gays hitting on me".....Maybe you should talk to a few of your women acquaintances and find out how they deal with unwanted sexual advances from men--its really not that hard to say--"back off dude, or I'll call in my cousin Lorena Bobbit". In all seriousness, I get your point about about the business owner losing business and trying to change the image of his bar. If its true, he needs to go about it in a different way of advertising his place so everyone feels welcome. But, I also think you need to reconsider how you deal with unwanted attention--take it as a compliment and just smile and say "no thanks, I'm straight". If you have a problem beyond that, its not cause the guy is gay, but because he's a psycho.Â
 @chickysgirl I feel for women that get hit on by creepy guys but being hit on from someone of the same sex is far more creepy. Not only that but once they find out you are straight they take it as some sort of challenge to try to convert you (this coming from several gay sources) and it becomes relentless. I worked with a gay man that was making sexual references at work right in front of customers. The restaurant wouldn't do anything about it. They don't take sexual harassment seriously when it's male to male.Â
 @FremontTroll I'm sorry, but I really don't have much sympathy for you. If you are an adult, you should be able to handle unwanted sexual attention-simple as that. And I can tell you, you're simply perpetuating a stereotype of gay men when you make statements like "they take it as some sort of challenge to convert you." I know a lot of gay men, and they don't talk any more trash than straight men, so as far as I'm concerned, its a 'guy thing' and not a 'gay thing'. I've experienced the 'challenge' of straight men continuing harrassment of lesbians too often not to think that. So, as they say, 'grow a pair' and figure out how to deal with their attention by saying 'no thanks' and walking away.Â
 @FremontTroll  Is far more creepy? Why, because you're insecure about homosexuality? Think that's it. Being approached by someone you're not interested in is always a bit uncomfortable, and when that person is a stalker then it gets creepy. Making sexual references is not sexual harassment. Being forcibly placed in a sexualized situation without your consent, and after you say it's bothersome to you, is harassment. Simply finding homosexuality weird does not qualify. You'll have to get over yourself, Fremont. Straight girls go through this daily and no, to them it is not "more creepy" to be hit on by women, it's all the same, it's all something they don't want. Straight girls don't whine about getting hit on by men, and they aren't anti-male as a result. You have no justification for your homophobia, so you should stop the excuses.
If certain types of persons are causing a ruckus then the owner has the right to refuse service. If they are just being themselves he can ask them to stay away but can't tell them to. Unless he's looking for a lawsuit. He's probably just trying to get publicity and it seems to be working.
I am half laughing and half depressed how many people thing that  a business hanging a sign saying that they "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" makes them immune to state and federal discrimination laws. In the state of Oregon, it is illegal for this bar to discriminate based on sexual orientation. Period.
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That being said, this sounds pretty bizarre and I wouldn't make any judgements without knowing for sure that the bar owner left these voicemails. If he DID, though, I'm glad this will get local media attention, so that people of good conscience can take their business elsewhere.
 @Jolly I thought the sign argument is funny. As if I could hang a sign on my car saying i'm not responsible for any damages, and drive around sideswiping people. "But, I have a sign...."  Here's YOUR sign.
"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"
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We've all seen the sign.
 @I Like Meat If I had known hanging a sign could counteract state and federal law, I would have gotten into the sign making business ages ago.
 @Jolly  @I Like Meat It is a private business...They can refuse who they want....or should be able too. Discrimination of sex is also unlawful, but they had "ladies nights" and not "man nights".
But, it is discrimination based on Gender.
 @Jolly But wait a second, how is not charging the ladies but charging a cover for a man not discrimination? If we all have to follow the rules then let them apply to everyone. I couldn't open a bar and charge a $10 cover to black people but let white people in for free. Think about it.Â
 @K00lGuy  @I Like Meat Also, just because you apparently don't believe in civil rights doesn't invalidate the laws we have protecting them.
 @K00lGuy  @I Like Meat They can't refuse service to men on ladies nights, so no, that isn't discrimination based on sex.
Whats the unemployment rate at now?
I'm so tired of hearing these stories. (hitting forehead) why oh why do I keep clicking on these stories.
I don't think this is or should be considered a news event. 1) Â It provides an orange crate for thinly disguized homophobic rants as we have seen in some of the postings here. 2)Â It's in Portland and not even top news there. 3) We really don't know hat happen. The gay bar thing is touchy. For decades gay bars were about place where gay men and wonen could find each other and were often short lived because of official pressure. We, members of the gay community are sensitive about. A few years ago, the only gay bar was taken over by gang members from Tacoma because it had the best dance music in the area. Violence was the result. If this was te reaction of an over sensitive patron who stirred up trouble, that's one thing. If it was overt discrimination, that's another thing. We don't know yet.
 @smokey307 "3) We really don't know hat happen."
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Oh trust me, Smokey, we know hat happens.
@Patrick Preston
Can you please write a more news-worthy story for us to read next time, pretty please
So what? Why is this a news story. Gay bar owners feel free to tell straight people to stay away too, might be rude and customers won't come back but they own the join so big deal..why put this story front page because somebody wasn't being nice, and some people have paper thin skin and go cry about it just to make it a big deal.. get over it and find another friendlier bar
 @commentator Yeah, um, no, that isn't happening, at least not on nearly the scale we see with straight bars that blatantly at the very least black out their gay customers and treat them as if they don't exist. So instead of telling people to get over being discriminated against, you should be thinking and saying what anyone with any shred of morals would, which is speak out against said discrimination.
 @commentator It isn't legal for gay bars in this state to tell straight people to stay away, and as a straight person who has gone to LOTS of gay bars, I have never once been made to feel unwelcome, so I really have no idea what you're even trying to say here.
So, if a group of Hells Angels or Banditios start coming to a bar, lining the front with Harleys will it not get a reputation as a biker bar? Â Will the usual "after work" bar patrons or group of sports fans really want to hang out there?
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IF the gays going to that guys bar are flamers, very overt or some loud and angry lesbians wouldn't the bar get a reputaion of being a gay bar? Â Seems like the guys wants to keep his patrons diverse. Â
Sounds pretty simple to me. Is there a voicemail, yes or no.
@thatsjarrod http://youtu.be/fJF4g4oB36U
If "they" want to make it one of their bars I suggest "they" get off their wallets and make it worth the owners trouble. What about all the gay bars already there?
"A North Portland bar owner is accused of leaving voicemails telling some customers to stay away because he doesn't want a reputation as a âgay bar.â
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Really? How many bar owners have their customers phone numbers?
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This stinks of stirring the pot of hatred. Keep it up KOMO.
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 @John Tits No business can hang a sign saying "No Blacks Allowed." Honestly, unless you are a private club I don't think you can discriminate against anyone. That's just the society we live in. I don't like it but then again I would never want to see a business discriminate against a person of color.Â
 @John Tits I'm sorry, but do you have even the slightest grasp of civil rights law?
 @John Tits As much as I hate to say it your wrong. The bar is a public place that invites the public in to buy their wares. He has to follow those laws related to operating a public business which this bar owner is doing. I would suggest he terminate those gay's and lesbians from his staff and that might reduce the amount of those people that come in thinking it is a gay bar. Even terminating them will be a tricky business and he will have to have just cause in triplicate to be able to do it.
 @LongBeachBum Privately owned businesses and private property are not "public places." It gets tricky on the legal end. A private business or homeowner has every legal right to ban people from bringing guns onto the property even if the owner has a carry permit. That is just one example. I would be curious to know more about the law on this sort of matter. But he can't discriminate in hiring or in retaining staff, that would actually be illegal.Â
 @Citizen#3457899654 I think the reason it "gets tricky on the legal end" is because you apparently have no idea what civil rights laws actual entail. Privately owned businesses are considered "public accommodations" and thus fall under the law with regards to discrimination. In Oregon, it is illegal for them to discriminate based on sexual orientation, period. Whether the bar owner actually DID that is another story, but if he said they weren't allowed there because they were homosexual, he would be violating state law.
@Citizen#3457899654 @LongBeachBum Banning guns is legal.Banning minorities of any kind isn't.That being said,the facts of the case are kind of fuzzy.
 @LongBeachBum "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."