Proposal would allow ferries to be built out of state
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - Under a proposal receiving a hearing Tuesday in the Washington state Senate Transportation Committee, ferries plying the Puget Sound would no longer have to be built in Washington state, fewer apprentice workers would be involved in building them and the state would limit the money it pays for cost overruns.
Taken together, the proposed changes are intended to bring down the cost of buying and building new ferries to be integrated into the aging white-and-green painted fleet in the wake of a recent state auditor's report finding that ferries built in Washington state can cost as much as 40 percent more as those built elsewhere.
Sen. Curtis King, R-Yakima, co-chair of the Senate Transportation Committee and the bill's sponsor, conceded that he did not expect it to "jump up and run out of this committee" with broad support. However, he added, "we need to have a conversation about this. We really need to look at why do we pay what we pay."
There are currently two new Washington state ferry boats under construction, each with room for 144 cars. House Democrats last week unveiled a transportation revenue package that included $123 million in bonds for a third such ferry, and the state has an option to purchase a fourth.
Sen. King said he does not intend for his bill to affect the pending 144-car ferries.
Rather, he said, it is an attempt to look at how the state can bring down costs going forward while continuing to provide the ferry service that carries 22 million people and 10 million vehicles across the Puget Sound each year. Nine of the state's 22 ferries are at least 40 years old.
Currently, the state's Department of Transportation sets aside as much as 20 percent of a new ferry's cost for so-called change orders, in which the shipbuilder does work not outlined in the original contract. The bill would limit that amount to five percent, and would require the state's Office of Financial Management to sign off on such orders.
Apprentice builders are under current law required to make up 15 percent of the workforce for the building of new ferries - though the 144-car ferries now being built are not covered by that rule. Under the measure, that number would be reduced to 5 percent.
Separately, the House Transportation Committee on Tuesday heard a pair of bills intended to increase oversight of how the ferry system is run and to look for ways to bring down costs.
Taken together, the proposed changes are intended to bring down the cost of buying and building new ferries to be integrated into the aging white-and-green painted fleet in the wake of a recent state auditor's report finding that ferries built in Washington state can cost as much as 40 percent more as those built elsewhere.
Sen. Curtis King, R-Yakima, co-chair of the Senate Transportation Committee and the bill's sponsor, conceded that he did not expect it to "jump up and run out of this committee" with broad support. However, he added, "we need to have a conversation about this. We really need to look at why do we pay what we pay."
There are currently two new Washington state ferry boats under construction, each with room for 144 cars. House Democrats last week unveiled a transportation revenue package that included $123 million in bonds for a third such ferry, and the state has an option to purchase a fourth.
Sen. King said he does not intend for his bill to affect the pending 144-car ferries.
Rather, he said, it is an attempt to look at how the state can bring down costs going forward while continuing to provide the ferry service that carries 22 million people and 10 million vehicles across the Puget Sound each year. Nine of the state's 22 ferries are at least 40 years old.
Currently, the state's Department of Transportation sets aside as much as 20 percent of a new ferry's cost for so-called change orders, in which the shipbuilder does work not outlined in the original contract. The bill would limit that amount to five percent, and would require the state's Office of Financial Management to sign off on such orders.
Apprentice builders are under current law required to make up 15 percent of the workforce for the building of new ferries - though the 144-car ferries now being built are not covered by that rule. Under the measure, that number would be reduced to 5 percent.
Separately, the House Transportation Committee on Tuesday heard a pair of bills intended to increase oversight of how the ferry system is run and to look for ways to bring down costs.
I wonder if they are still paying mileage to their employees to drive to work? THAT should have stopped a long time ago!
Aaron- just so ya know, it's a Republican sponsored bill. Gotta remember, the Republicans ("conservatives") are the ones who have been the largest supporters of sending jobs overseas.
GOOD! Maybe then the builders in Washington will have some competition and then can quit raping us on costs.
What, so they can make them in China? NO!!!
How about scrapping old ferries instead of selling them through shady brokers. The last two WA ferries were declared unfit. Then sold to an East African country through a Canadian broker where they shortly capsized killing hundreds.
Oh great. Now leaky ferry's from China. Let's keep it in State.
Sooo, the ferry might cost 40% less. But, let's see, there would be 100% less materials made and/or brought into the state, 100% less salaries in the state, and 100% less taxes paid on the cost of labor, materials, and profit made on the building of that boat. So, if we do the math on down the line, including the wages that are then spent on taxable items, the required business infrastructure that continues to pay taxes on other projects that must be done... The state could save $49 million (in theory- although that never works out very well) buying the ferry in Taiwan or China. But, of that 49 million, they already get somewhere around $25 million back in the form of taxes directly from that boat, and easily another $30-$40 million in taxes on the wages and then what the employees spend on gas, cars, and the other things people buy. Looks to me like saving $49 million could really wind up costing the state $10 million.
Pay more - keep the jobs here. And privatization? The biggest scam of all.
As long as the ferries are built within the United States....does the bill specify this?And their construction should be part of a well-regulated bonafide bid process. Just my two cents.
Might want to add bridge pontoons to the list.
what happened to ensley's saying je was all about creating jobs? washington state ferries are part of our state, which i am getting tired of....i've lived here all my life and use to be proud of...not anymore.
I dont believe it costs 40% more to build in Washington. If that was true, why would ANYBODY build in Washington?Â
recently a news article showed a new Factory Long Liner built here, but a very smart fishing company. Why wouldn't they build elsewhere? The company is based in Alaska, they have no reason to feed Washington shipyards.
The good news is, Hammond is gone and soon Mosely will be too. WDOT has new life!
No it needs to stay the way it is now
Get WADOT out of the Ferry System. WADOT has shown that they don't do well designing things that float. An independent ferry system would be far more accountable. I the past, ferry landing construction was run by 5 people. Then WADOT took over and you have 5 people inspecting a concrete pour.
As long as its only built in freakin USA
Those companies should have to move here.
Todd is Vigor Shipyards now. So not only Washington State is effected but so is Oregon. How many ship builders do you think still exist? It is much better for quality control to have it built here! I think the lawmakers when they put this into effect were thinking of Washington State economy. To have the long standing expertise of ship builders and repair is crucial to our state. It is not only ferries it is Naval ships too!
Have them made in China because the Chinese cement used in the failing pontoons worked so well.
I, along with most Washingtonians would like to see the work to build these stay in Washington. That being said, why in the hell is it 40% more to build them here than somewhere else? THAT is what needs to be addressed.
@The WA Mama Because there is no competitive market here in Washington. Those who build the ferries here can charge whatever the hell they want and get away with it because BY LAW the ferries MUST be built here.Â
Not enough info to make an informed opinion here: Exactly how many jobs are we talking here? The article doesn't even mention the jobs. And are these jobs (and therefore the shipbuilding company itself probably) completely dependant on ferry orders alone??!? That doesn't seem to make much sense. Are we talking about actual jobs, or just the apprenticeships? They say it's save up to 40%, but what are the actual numbers and will it make a significant enough change in overall costs to actually stop having to increase the rates which they being doing so often lately??? How about some real journalism here >:(
If it would make them accountable to building practices. The chtzemoka class boats are a disgrace. Unbelieveable. They actually built boats with a list. The taxpayers got screwed on the three 90 million dollar boats. And now the tax payers are paying again t fix them. Meanwhile the powers that be won awards for their design. Wht a crock.
C'mon Denise, we can add a few more tolls on Snoqualmie,Stevens and Whites Pass to take up the slack:)
As long as they are built ENTIRELY IN THE USA why should it matter
and we have seen how well outsourcing worked for Boeing.... sometimes you get what you pay for.
Well we would get ferries made in China. I would not not want ride that!!!
Say it's not so. And just how do they propose to get the ferries back here etc. Outsourcing jobs is not a smart idea. We need t he jobs here. This should not be allowed to happen. Keep our jobs local...........
Out sourcing they'll probably have boats made in China, take jobs out of the USA. Keep them made in Washington.....................
In the real world, this sets a stage for "Competitive Bidding" Todd wants to build the Ferries, then they will need to sharpen thier pencils. This is how buisiness works, and sometimes concessions need to be made to work in a down economy. Something union members cant seem to grasp.
Darn good idea. They had one bidder on the Port Townsend ferry, cant think of the name right now, but its a piece!! List, rattles, sucks fuel, and not only that, the same shipyard that deamed the old ferries unfit, is the same shipyard that got the contract to build the new one!The old ones had just gone through a 20 year refit 10 years earlier! Those times may be off a little, but close. Hmmmm.
Make em here!! We need the jobs. And they only make a few every so often.
DON"T !
BC Ferries had our three Super-C class vessels built in Germany. They say our shipyards just weren't good enough. That's what they get for failing to support them! Would have been nice to have the jobs, but we indeed didn't have the capacity. If Washington state has shipyards that can build what's needed, they should be doing the job.
competition is good for business they say
Just say no!
Privatize. It's what drives the (good times) economy.
What a minute guys? We are paying 90 million dollars for a ferry and on the other side of the world New York City paid 50 million for a ferry that was close to the same thing. Why does cost so much to build one here in Washington when in New York the it cost less? I do not want jobs to go anywhere else. But i would like to know why there is such a cost difference. Wouldn't you?
@Sandra Bishop It costs more here because their is no competitive competition for the ferry contracts. Since there is a law that states that Washington ferries MUST be built in Washington, the contractors jack up the prices because they can. They're thieves.Â
nice picture!
I think they need to stop trying to out source all of our jobs to everyone else. They are not saving money they are continually hurting us and our economy.
no way. dumb idea and dumb thing to do.
Oh this is a good idea, We could get them from China because the Chinese would never lie to us. try to short us or cheat us or use poor quality material.
Keep our jobs.
Tax payer's dollars pay for the ferries and then that money is returned right back to the tax payers in the form of wages. It sounds like the way it should be required for everything.
Maybe CHINA can make our state ferries -- will that make the REPUBLICANS happy?
@Cathy Savage Llama Lets review shall we.
Question, which president pushed for and got favored nation status for China? Answer, Bill Clinton http://www.democracynow.org/1997/5/20/china_and_most_favored_nation_trade
Question, which president pushed for and got NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement)? Answer, Bill Clinton. http://historycentral.com/documents/Clinton/SigningNaFTA.html
Don't get me wrong the Republicans played their part in all this as well.
Conclusion, both the Republicans and Democrats are happy about the state of things today. Therefore laying blame on just one party shows your bias and lack of critical thinking!Â
Washington State employers should get first priority. Next we know, they'll be outsourcing it to China. Forget it!
Sounds just like liberal Washington :( pathetic!
Sounds like you might be happier living somewhere else.
How many jobs are we talking about? It's not like anyone is trying to put Boeing out of business. And who said those jobs would leave WA, anyway? Those companies can still bid on the jobs. Competition saves money and promotes innovation.