Seattle teachers take to the streets over controversial test
SEATTLE -- Some local teachers claim millions of dollars has been wasted on a standardized test for students, and on Wednesday they marched to the school district headquarters to voice their concern.
Garfield High School teachers gathered support in their refusal to administer the MAP -- Measures of Academic Progress -- which is a standardized test that assesses student abilities.
The teachers argue that teaching works better than mapping, and dozens of them now refuse to give the test to their students.
Seattle Public Schools superintendent Jose Banda is now threatening those teachers with disciplinary action.
"Failure to follow through can be seen as insubordination," Banda said.
According to district policy, teachers have until Feb. 22 to give the test, and those who refuse could get a 10-day suspension.
"We're not going to administer the test," said Garfield history teacher Jessie Hagopian.
While some teachers are still refusing to offer the test, others are re-thinking their position because they don't want their students to have a substitute for 10 days.
"I think it's a threat and it goes against our school's anti bullying policy," said Garfield teacher Rachel Eells.
The teachers say the MAP test is a waste of time and money, but the district says it's a valid tool to see how well students are progressing.
The test's creators said sample questions might ask students to identify a sentence that uses the infinitive form of a verb or click on all the consumers in an ecosystem. The test is computerized, so if a student gets a question wrong, the test moves to an easier question.
"It's not perfect," Banda said. "I'd be the first one to say that."
The school board asked for a review of the test last fall and now the Banda is forming a task force to look it over.
Garfield High School teachers gathered support in their refusal to administer the MAP -- Measures of Academic Progress -- which is a standardized test that assesses student abilities.
The teachers argue that teaching works better than mapping, and dozens of them now refuse to give the test to their students.
Seattle Public Schools superintendent Jose Banda is now threatening those teachers with disciplinary action.
"Failure to follow through can be seen as insubordination," Banda said.
According to district policy, teachers have until Feb. 22 to give the test, and those who refuse could get a 10-day suspension.
"We're not going to administer the test," said Garfield history teacher Jessie Hagopian.
While some teachers are still refusing to offer the test, others are re-thinking their position because they don't want their students to have a substitute for 10 days.
"I think it's a threat and it goes against our school's anti bullying policy," said Garfield teacher Rachel Eells.
The teachers say the MAP test is a waste of time and money, but the district says it's a valid tool to see how well students are progressing.
The test's creators said sample questions might ask students to identify a sentence that uses the infinitive form of a verb or click on all the consumers in an ecosystem. The test is computerized, so if a student gets a question wrong, the test moves to an easier question.
"It's not perfect," Banda said. "I'd be the first one to say that."
The school board asked for a review of the test last fall and now the Banda is forming a task force to look it over.
I am still unclear about how the MAP test is inaccurate or unfair to students/teachers. Some of you have stated it is not relevant, last time I checked history, math and grammar has been pretty much the same. Sounds like an excuse why Seattle kids are not up to their level.
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 I also see no problem how the questions get easier if the student gets a question wrong and the question gets harder if he/she got it right. That is a way to gauge the studentâs knowledge.
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 For all of you that said that it demoralize the students if they get too many of the questions wrong, you are part of the problem by enabling the students  to not try , you are teaching them everything will be handed to them. Teaching a generation they are entitled to whatever they want. You fear the students may feel dumb if they get too many questions wrong, well they should feel that way, why try to sugarcoat reality. Are these teachers going carry these students, be there step by step through life? You are not helping anyone by babying these students. Look at where the USâs education rank amongst all developed countries, even with all our resources and opportunities we are one of the dumbest nation. It is no surprise if you go to a college or university the fastest growing numbers of students are foreign kids.
My boss tells me to do something and I say no I would get canned.  If I didn't and truly felt strongly about it I would quit.  Wonder why the school and teachers aren't handling it the same way.  We have rules and these are the people who are suppose to be teaching the kids.  Go about getting these tests removed the right way or take a walk.  Just for the record I hated these test and didn't take them seriously. In all I feel my school was a joke when I graduated I learned quickly how little what I learned helped me in the real world.  It scary to talk to high school students today and to hear what they believe and how the think the real world works.
They dont want the tests, because the kids will fail it.
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The kids fail, because the teachers dont teach like they should.
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The tests will show that teachers are getting paid for not doing their jobs. My father always told me while growing up, "If a student fails to learn, the student failed to teach.
I meant.....If the student fails to learn, the teacher failed to teach.
Jose, welcome to Seattle
O Yes ..the school system hierarchy makes these decisions without having a relevant discussion with the teachers that actually do the teaching and getting their opinion...their way or the highway...
@clem77 Imagine that, a boss that can tell their employees what to do...
Welcome to the real world teachers.
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It's easy for those of you who have NEVER SEEN THE MAP TEST to make comments here. Some of you are saying these teachers are not doing their jobs, but if you knew what the MAP was like, you'd realize that this test is useless and KEEPS TEACHERS FROM DOING THEIR JOBS. Imagine that you are daily trying to increase the reading skills of your students. You teach to all the state standards, and even your reluctant readers are becoming more engaged. THEN you drag your students into a computer lab where they are told they are dumb because the test spits out random questions which are unaligned to state standards. Not only that, but the better your students do on the test, the harder the questions become, and your students grow alarmed and nervous as they see terminology and questions far above their grade level! This is NOT conducive to student learning. Testing should be RELEVANT, NOT RANDOM! BOTTOM LINE: IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THEN SHUT UP!!!!
@CH BRAVO !!!!!!
Will some intrepid journalist answer a question I have been asking for years: How much money has the state spent on testing since Booth Gardner's Blue Ribbon Commission started us out on the path of educational reform? The total cost...studies, meetings, refreshments at meetings, travel, printing, mailing, consultants, proof-readers, new bureaucracies and offices, contracts with testing companies, rewriting, training, scoring, revisions...the whole enchilada. How much has it cost? (I am a teacher and agree with the Seattle teachers in the article).
I don't know why everyone is so upset as long as your state ran day care stays open.
 @Common Sense Sad but true for many.Â
Stand your ground Teachers!!!!!!!!!!!
Every country has tests. The US is one of the worst when it comes to education standards, and the teachers and curriculum is to blame. We can sink into being one of the dumbest nations on earth or move forward. A start would be to fire insubordinate teachers, get better teachers, design a competitive curriculum (check Russia, India, China, Bulgaria - tons of good examples) and have more rigorous regular tests. Like they do everywhere else in the world. There is NOT ONE white guy anywhere today where we need brains - it's all foreigners.
 @seattleseattle "The teachers and curriculum is to blame." Well... Goodness... It's hard to argue with that sentence
The teachers aren't objecting to tests in general. They simply want tests to be RELEVANT. Do you think it is a good use of your tax dollars to pay for random testing unrelated to state standards? Do you think this is helpful for students? I doubt you've seen the MAP test, so you DON'T know what you're talking about. It is a waste of time and money!
The public school teachers teach so few days of the year why bother even having expensive public schools
 @m9078jk3 Teachers teach exactly the number of days required by the state legislature.
Get back in the class room and spend the time with the kids so the can take test and maybe they can pass.Get off the streets,you are running away from the problem.
No, they are NOT running away, Mike. You obviously don't know what the MAP test is like. They are FACING the problem, which is wasting public tax dollars on testing that is NOT correlated to state standards. How would YOU like to take a test where there was NO way you could prepare for it because the content was completely random and provided by some source outside your company? It doesn't make sense, does it?
More uppity public sector employees. Fire them all if they don't want to do their jobs.
Their JOBS are to teach the state standards to their students, measure their progress with assessments correlated to the material taught, and intervene when necessary to make sure students learn material if they are not understanding it. Their JOBS are NOT to waste time and money on tests that are not correlated to the standards they are required to teach. The MAP test is demoralizing for students because they think they are dumb when they score lower than expected, but that is because it is NOT linked to WA state standards. The questions are RANDOM and jump all over the place, not even assessing students at their appropriate grade levels. You CLEARLY know nothing on this subject.
the cost of the test or the results? will we ever know? take the test.
Are YOU a Washington state teacher? Have YOU seen the MAP test and how completely unrelated to state standards it is? Why waste time and money on a test that is not correlated to the material teachers are required to teach? That is stupid!
@CH How you go CH...keep on rebutting these people who have no idea what they are talking about....I'm on your side....
Is it possible the teachers reluctance to measure the students performance could be turned around as a measure of their performance?
Is it POSSIBLE that you have never SEEN the MAP test and know NOTHING about this topic?
 @CH Entirely possible. If I tell my boss I will not do what he wants he will fire me.
Why not administer the test, and if it is as worthless as you claim, that will be revealed.
It isn't like the education system has a stellar performance to date. Give it a try maybe the Seattle Public Schools superintendent is right.
 @al_wa Anything is possible. They may see in the trenches what most people don't see or understand.
Brovo to the teachers! Hold your ground.
 @Exiled_Patriot This is Y the people of the state voted for charter schools. Brovo
 @Mike  @Exiled_Patriot No they voted for charter schools because they were lied to. The pro charter school group out spent the against by over 9 to 1.
 @thebigteacher  I voted for charter schools cause when I was in school it was a joke.  And now talking to kids in school it has only gotten worse. I feel we have nothing to lose trying something new.  Heck if it doesn't work I may home school my kids or find someone that will do a better job than I can.
I smell the teachers union balking about accountability again in this story.Â
@Citizen#3457899654 You certainly do smell...
Citizen#3457899654 - I smell someone who knows NOTHING about the MAP test!
@Citizen#3457899654
What is it like forming opinions with out a single fact?
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For the first three years a teacher can be ânon-renewedâ (fired) for any reason without cause. After that it just takes a little effort from the principal to remove an incompetent teacher. Step one: Observe and document that the teacher is not meeting the Teaching for Learning Standards. This can be done in as little as a one hour formal observation. Step two: Teacher is placed on a Plan of Improvement. Here the teacher meets with a mentor in the field to see if there is a chance for improvement.  This often lasts 60-90 days. Step three:  An outside expert, chosen by the District Administration, offers their opinion after review and observation. Based on this the district will choose to fire or retain said teacher. The Union supports this process and assists in removing a great many poor teachers each year. This entire process is skipped if a teacher is accused of physical or sexual misconduct. They are placed on paid leave until the accusations are confirmed or disproved. Teachers are considered guilty until proven innocent.
@thebigteacher Please don't let facts get in the way of his story.
"Seattle Public Schools superintendent Jose Banda is now threatening those teachers with disciplinary action."
"I think it's a threat and it goes against our school's anti bullying policy," said Garfield teacher Rachel Eells"
 I am not familiar with the MAP but if an employee doesn't do their job, facing disciplinary action is not bullying. Good gosh!
@Robinsnest If that job serves no useful purpose & costs the company money then in most successful companies the employee will get a bonus for their idea...
.....once again, PUBLIC union employees acting like petulant little children.
10 day suspensions without pay is a start, but would like to see a 30 day minimum.
Once these whiners, moaners, and criers are hit in the pocket book, their little grandstanding here will fade.
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"While some teachers are still refusing to offer the test, others are re-thinking their position because they don't want their students to have a substitute for 10 days."
No, they do not want to lose a paycheck is more like it.
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The sad aspect is, if we get to see suspensions, the WEA and the SEA will take the school district to court and file a lawsuit to get these un-educators their back pay...and knowing the liberal court system we have, they will get it.
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Here's your sign............
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@clem77
WOW!! I am shocked, stunned & flabbergasted.  I have never seen such a well crafted & thoughtful rebut to any post in the last four years. Â
You must be the president of your debate team AND a member of Mensa.
I should know better than to make a post & having to attempt to debate you on an issueâ¦.
Guess I better enroll in some continuing education classes so I can be better prepared when facing such a brilliant person as yourselfâ¦.shame on me for even trying. Â
@Sydthepiper Yet the high school drop outs at Boeing strike over less and it's OK? Hmmm....
 @Common Sense Here's your paw print:
1. Boeing, is a private company. The members of the IAM751 who work there are not public union employees, teachers are.
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2. There is no downside to a teacher striking financially. They will still get their 180 days of pay when classes resume. Boeing employees who strike do not get paid for those days they chose not to work.  The last strike cost me about $10,000. If teachers are willing to forgo their pay and not recoup it, then that is a start.
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3. A Boeing worker striking does not hold families as virtual hostages. Many parents work part time during the school year, and plan their finances & annual budget around that. When teachers strike, those families now must make a choice....work & fork over most of the $ for day care, or stay home with the kids & lose the pay as well.
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To use the screen name common sense, then demonstrate such a lack of it, is on oxymoron.
If you have different ammo, then take another shot at the facts...just don't count on that noodle sticking to the wall.
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 @Common Sense  @SydthepiperÂ
Wow, just wow
you felt the need to slam Boeing workers.
Best check yourself common sense, because with that statement you sure didn't use any.
 @Sydthepiper You once again demonstrate your shallow understanding of the topic at hand.  I don't want my kids wasting time in school learning subject matter that doesn't align with the courses that they're taking.  Nor do I want my tax dollars wasted on useless tests or paying teachers to teach to a test.
 @BH Herring au contraire little fishy one.
I understand it fully. If one disagrees with current policy, then as a collective, you get the policy changed...then you won't have to worry yourself about what is being taught and learned.
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WE also need to add some teeth to the statute in this State which current does not legally allow teacher strikes.
If there is a walk-out, fines are imposed day one. $200 per day for the individual teachers who follow the ill advise of their union, and $2000 per day against the said union.
If they are so concerned about the education they are giving their students, then stay in the classroom.
 @CH I would suggest, to any educator, that if you disagree with your districts policies, you find another teaching job that fits your morals better.
Yes, the students will still get the mandated 180 days, and striking teachers still get paid.
If you feel so stongly about achieving a better goal, then make a sacrifice your pay for not performing the job you're paid to do. If I strike, I lose my pay...no making it up, no recouping.....it is gone. Teachers need to do the same.
Subs can fill in while you're walking out in the cold to make your point.
Sydthepiper, have you SEEN the MAP? Do you KNOW what teachers have already done to try to be heard about this type of pointless testing? Have you attended the meetings? Have you seen teachers targeted by their principals just for raising QUESTIONS like this about testing? If only you knew some of the demoralizing things I have seen teachers asked to teach in the name of school reform - the type of lessons that cause students to say they are in the "dumb class." The students will get their 180 days of education, even with a strike or a walkout. Sometimes a temporary inconvenience is worth achieving long-term change for the better.Â
What a wonderful way to teach our kids to respect leadership. WaaaaWaaaWAAAAAAaaaa says the teacher.
What a wonderful way to teach our kids to question poor decisions and take action to try and bring about positive change. What a wonderful way to model citizenship skills. Sorry if you're a "yes" person who never questions leadership, but if everyone was like that, we would still belong to the U.K.
 @komoispropaganda Or you can show them what a spineless dweeb would do by not speaking your mind and toeing the line, no matter the cost to students in wasted classroom time and the wasted money spent on bogus tests -- so administrators and politicians have something to hide behind.
@komoispropaganda
It seems like a great way to show them how to exercise their first amendment rights. Kind of like the pro-gun rally that you supported in earlier comments.
 @Justaguy  @komoispropaganda Our tax dollars pay for these public union employees. My tax dollars do not support pro-gun rallies.
If these union employees want to exercise their first amendment rights, that is fine with me....just as long as it is on their OWN time, not the public dime.