Wash. becomes 42nd state to allow charter schools
SEATTLE (AP) - Washington voters have narrowly approved an initiative that clears the way for up to 40 charter schools to be opened in the state over the next five years.
Initiative 1240 has clung to a narrow lead as more ballots were counted following last week's election.
This is the fourth time the proposal has been on the ballot in Washington state, where voters rejected charter schools in 1995, 2000 and 2004.
Supporters say the charter proposal would offer new choices for struggling kids and their families. Opponents say charters have a mixed track record in other states and they would take away money from regular public schools.
Proponents of charter schools raised more than $10 million to promote the idea, including $3 million from Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates.
Washington becomes the 42nd state to allow the public independent schools.
"This is really another signal from voters that they want more options and faster change from our public education system," said Shannon Campion, executive director of the Washington chapter of Stand for Children, one of the groups supporting the initiative.
Under the terms of the initiative, any nonprofit organization could start a charter school in Washington if their plan is approved by either a new statewide commission or by a local school board that has been authorized by the state school board to approve charter schools.
The schools would need to be free and open to all students just like traditional public schools. They would receive public funding based on student enrollment, just like other schools. But public charter schools would be exempt from some state regulations, including some of the rules regarding the hiring and firing of teachers.
Initiative 1240 has clung to a narrow lead as more ballots were counted following last week's election.
This is the fourth time the proposal has been on the ballot in Washington state, where voters rejected charter schools in 1995, 2000 and 2004.
Supporters say the charter proposal would offer new choices for struggling kids and their families. Opponents say charters have a mixed track record in other states and they would take away money from regular public schools.
Proponents of charter schools raised more than $10 million to promote the idea, including $3 million from Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates.
Washington becomes the 42nd state to allow the public independent schools.
"This is really another signal from voters that they want more options and faster change from our public education system," said Shannon Campion, executive director of the Washington chapter of Stand for Children, one of the groups supporting the initiative.
Under the terms of the initiative, any nonprofit organization could start a charter school in Washington if their plan is approved by either a new statewide commission or by a local school board that has been authorized by the state school board to approve charter schools.
The schools would need to be free and open to all students just like traditional public schools. They would receive public funding based on student enrollment, just like other schools. But public charter schools would be exempt from some state regulations, including some of the rules regarding the hiring and firing of teachers.
As long as they have entry requirements for these school that is fine by me. Like most people have said they are tired of the system being forced to teach to the lowest common denominator. If you have unruly or disruptive students they take valuable teacher time. So the best and the brightest students always end up having to wait...this should not be the case. If public schools had say levels 1-4 with 1 being the highest level students and 4 being among the worst at least we would have students who are all at the same level. I was a brighter student in some subjects and I was frustrated when the teacher would have to stop class to deal with someone else's brat of a child. Heck I even started studying with the teacher on my own time and the teachers time after school just so I could learn more without distraction! The teacher was great when they were not distracted and helping me outside of normal hours was something they were happy to do!
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Teachers are <b>NOT</b>substitutes for <b>PARENTS</b>... and the sooner we start with a system where the brighter kids can be placed in a better learning environment the better. Put morons with other morons and if they still fail at level 4 they are removed from the school end of story!
If your going to open your mouth, try reading first.
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http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/brief/citizens-guide-initiative-1240-allow-public-charter-schools-Washington
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I usually don't lean toward 'conspiracy' thinking but you have to wonder about the charter school effort - somebody is making lots of money off these schools and they aren't doing any better than public schools so WHO is behind all this? Where did all the money that poured into WA to support this legislation come from? Somebody is benefiting and it isn't the students or families and certainly NOT the taxpayers.
Charter schools spend more per-student on administration and less on instruction than non-charter public schools. That sounds like private business to me. There is no data that shows charter schools are better than public schools and much data that shows they are often worse.
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http://www.ncspe.org/publications_files/OP201.pdf
Hey, for all of you desperately defending charter schools here... it's a done deal. You've got them. They'd better work!
Slowly Washington state peeks its head around the corner of 22nd century looking through all the pot smoke and noise of wedding bells ringing in its head....
Is it cynical of me to expect the courts to throw this out at their earliest convenience?
Washington State is so behind in the times, they think they're first.
I'm glad for the kids this one passed.
 @Harry reems Enjoy:
http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.com/
One of the first states to legalize gay marriage and pot, one of the LAST states to ok charter schools. That speaks loudly of where Washington state is. Knowing how this state is run, WEA will be in charge of our charter schools, so they will be as screwed up as anything else this state tries to do....
 @boeman You got that right WA priorities are getting high and sexual deviation.
I'll be interested to see how this goes. I voted no because charter schools seem like yet another band-aid for our failing public school system. The charter schools themselves might be great, but they aren't replacing public schools, and they are on a lottery system so only some kids can go to them. And so most kids will still be in the same old public schools, except with even less money. I just hate that we keep coming up with all these alternatives instead of fixing the problem.Â
@dancingnights999  What we're doing now is not working. Massachusetts has 72 Charter schools and they excel in the education department. I used to tutor at a Charter school and I saw how well the children academically achieved their goals. If you don't have Charter schools as an option, the low scoring students drag everyone down to their level. Treating everyone the same is not an ideal way to lead. We need leaders in our country and this is a stepping stone without any racial bias or income level requirement.Â
YES the dam has cracked! The teachers Union has competition! Now lets see in 10 years what works better Unions or free market and merit systems
 @wynooheemanNo rules or laws to protect the teachers' rights?? That's going to lead to happy teachers who want to go to work? You know nothing about being a teacher.
@Sanctuary @wynooheeman I have personally seen some teachers who should have been fired. Just having a teaching degree doesn't mean you are a good teacher, just like any other line of work there are the good and the bad. These rules you talk about protect the teachers, but don't consider the children whom these teachers are in charge of. This IS about the children.
@Sanctuary @wynooheeman then why did you like my comment? Teachers need to have a set standard of merit pay. if the majority of students are doinng poorly either in a union shop or a non union school that relfects on the teacher not the student. and I mean the majority of the students we will always have those kids that don't fit in to the square hole and are round pegs. But the union will keep a incompataint teacher no matter what. were as a nonunion school will fire that incompantaint teacher and hire one who can do the job at the pay that is set forth.
@TruthinAdverts @lgconservative Truth your saying that blacks are stupid and that poor preople can not learn. You are a racisit and a bigot. economic standing has nothing to do with education. If it did then ever child in the state of washington should by the end of High school leave with a masters degree from a Ivy leage school because that is how much we spend per child per year on them. It is equal to the tuition of Harvard. Also what you point is that teachers in urban areas have zero faith or concern for a student. they don't want to waste their time. is what your saying. I am not going to answer the question I am going to point out what a racisit the Truthinadverts is! by the statement they made! If I were a black person I would call you out on the carpet right now! You don't have to wear a white robe to be a bigot. A great from of segation is in play when you short change the poor with your attitude.
 @TruthinAdverts  @wynooheeman  @Sanctuary "I'm curious how this "merit pay" system impacts low income areas where student performance is historically poorer, sometimes despite the efforts of individual teachers."
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Figure it out. You're a teacher, right? Come up with a fair scheme that takes your concerns into account. Get rid of tenure and get rid of required contributions to unions and you'll have a happier public.
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 @lgconservative  @TruthinAdverts You know perfectly well that "lower income areas have dumber students" isn't what I was saying. The fact that inner city schools have lower performance levels (caused by a lot of reasons) has been an issue. If charter schools in Washington don't correct this inner city issue (as you imply they will) can we hold the institutions and individuals who openly supported them personally financially responsible for fixing the mess? As for New Orleans, I'm curious precisely which cross section of kids make up their charter schools, being as Washington's charters will be allowed to cherry pick students. Is that how it works in New Orleans as well?Â
@TruthinAdverts So are you saying that low income areas have dumber students? I heartily disagree! If the students are challenged and the teachers are held accountable for the students performance, then they will succeed. Look at New Orleans! Their charter school system rocks and the kids are doing great!
 @wynooheeman  @TruthinAdverts the point is that inner city schools historically produce lesser test scores. Question... are you planning to hold this against the teachers who teach there? How about it big guy? Got an answer? Or more tripeÂ
 @wynooheeman  @TruthinAdverts Way to totally avoid the question. So like you
 @wynooheeman  @Sanctuary I'm curious how this "merit pay" system impacts low income areas where student performance is historically poorer, sometimes despite the efforts of individual teachers. If such is the case, by your merit system, what teachers would want to work in a school system, where although they can reach and help some students succeed, socio-economic conditions will tarnish their pay/employment security. In other words you advocate creating a system where no teachers will want to work in inner city schools. Quite a "master plan" you have going there.
There is no evidence whatsoever that students perform better in charter schools than public schools. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. I truly don't understand why voters voted yes on this.
@jowsuf To place education in to the free market. say there was only one hopsital and they had a 25% mortality rate and nothing you could do would chage that. and every time a private company wanted to bring in new doctors and new hopitals the people of the state said no we like that you have 25% chance of dying every time you go to that hospital ran by the unions we can't fire the doctors The go on strike leaving the patiets high and dry almost once a year. But we Love that sysytem. well I know that is a drastice comparision to our schools but the unions strike even though it is breaking the law! They have a 25% drop out rate that is one out of every 4 students do not complete high school. That is failure rate. It is time to aleast try some thing new.
 @wynooheeman  @jowsuf I understand this line of thinking, but I think it's more of a gamble than a fix. I just don't trust the private sector with education. Just look at for-profit higher education schools.
@jowsuf Let me put it to you better it is non union teachers. these schools are paid for by your tax dollar. More money can be put in to the class room then the union coffers. The union are for profit not for student. The teachers have to have the same level of education as any public school teacher. the charter schools can not select who can go based on tuition it is free to all students.
 @jowsuf "I truly don't understand why voters voted yes on this."
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Because they are fed up with how the public school system protects the teachers over the interests of the students. They voted for an alternative system.  Maybe not a better one, but an alternative one.
 @jowsuf Stanford actually proved that charter schools are more often WORSE than public schools. The dumbest part of this is that charter schools get to pick their student population and generally don't need to spend any of their money on disabled students the way a public school must. "The report found that 17% of charter schools reported academic gains that were significantly better than traditional public schools; 46% showed no difference from public schools; and 37% were significantly worse than their traditional public school counterparts."
Charter schools are fine, but they don't make much of a difference in terms of actual student performance. They may have a bit more of an advantage in being able to expel unruly or disruptive students, though, and that can help.
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But, educational outcomes/test scores/etc. are largely "invariant" with respect to the various types of schools we have. Those factors rely primarily on the "inputs" - the students themselves. Teachers can't magically raise a student's IQ; there are biological limits to the type of information that any given person is able to master, and the degree to which that mastery covers the subject.
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To put it another way, let's say the state mandated that in order to graduate, all highschool students had to pass a graduate-level course in physics. The graduation rate would plummet close to zero, and this would not be amendable through "better teachers" or "better-funded schools" or "charter schools" or any other such thing.Â
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Though we don't like to admit it, there are students for whom simple algebra is the cognitive equivalent of graduate physics, and if you lump many such students together in the same school, that school will suck, charter or not.
 @Whobeke Exactly!!! A student not doing well is not only the teachers not performing, but
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.
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You!
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The parents also need to invest time and effort. Why do I find Indian and Chinese kids doing well? Because their parents invest in their studies. We on the other hand just like to blame others for our lack of interest. Teachers don't have a magic wand, a student should have the inclination and the ability to learn
If we were adding 8 traditional public schools per year for 5 years in WA state, the population would be in total favor.Â
"another signal from voters that they want more options"
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Are you listening teachers unions????
 @al_wa It passed by less than 2% and the pro charter school crowd had to outspend the against crew by more than 19 to 1. Go figure.
 @al_wa So did you listen when McKenna lost Al? Or do you just listen to what you want to?
 @al_wa "Are you listening teachers unions????"
You mean the Union member teachers who spend hundreds of dollars of their own money to provide classroom supplies every year? Who put in a lot of time off the clock to work on class lesson plans and grading homework? Who are required to update their education on a regular basis in order to keep their certification?
@OrcasThunder @al_wa you mean the teachers union who teachers can not teach the basic ideas of the federalist papers or even pass the basic citizenship test? Those union teachers that strike and break the law? those union teachers?
 @wynooheeman  @OrcasThunder "See a student is only as good as the teacher that cares"
And I'll bet that you use that excuse a lot...at work, at party meetings, on rare dates...
@OrcasThunder No your opnion is moot too. See a student is only as good as the teacher that cares. no union teacher cares about students. if they did they would never strike. nor would they care about money they would do it for the love of the child. Any time a teacher walks out on a student it sends the message that the teacher is a greedy SOB and does not care one bit for the student.
 @wynooheeman  @Sanctuary  @OrcasThunder  @al_wa "Hey I am just a product of Union teachers"
What is it the right wingers say to people they see as slackers? Oh, right ..."Don't blame society, get off your fat read-end and get a job, make something useful of yourself!"...
Yeah, that applies here, wynoo...
 @Sanctuary  @wynooheeman  @al_wa Have you read his post above? Seriously, I'm wondering if he's had a stroke...
@unobtanium well from your name you should know your costly unabatanble and non exsistant. so your view point is moot.
 @wynooheeman  @Sanctuary  @OrcasThunder  @al_waÂ
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Don't blame the teacher, they cannot do much with low grade ore...
@Sanctuary @OrcasThunder @al_wa Hey I am just a product of Union teachers. that is all just show up get a pay check and push the kid to the next grade.
 @wynooheeman  @OrcasThunder  @al_wa Please learn to speak and write English before you post.
@OrcasThunder @al_wa And KNEW all of this would be required when they chose that career path???
@nwbackpacker@quidproquo@OrcasThunder
Teachers are paid for 180 days taught at 7.5 hours a day. The average teacher works about 50 hours a week which equates to about 12.5 hours in uncompensated time a week.  Some districts provide more days in the form of a supplemental contract. Keep in mind that you must add in another 30 unpaid hours a year to keep our license current.
I have been a âregularâ worker (construction, commercial fisherman, retailer, bouncer, commercial painter) and for the last 18 years Iâve been a teacher. It is the hardest job I have ever had. Not physically per say but mentally and emotionally.   Unlike my other jobs teaching doesnât stop when your shift is over or the season ends. There is always something new or better to do or try, papers to grade, parents to call or meet with and myriad other things as well. I love it but would no longer recommend to anyone.
 @quidproquo  @OrcasThunder The pay and the hours suck? Most regular workers do 40 hours a week, or more, over 46-48 weeks a year. What's the teacher equivalent?
@SpeedyGonzalez@OrcasThunder@al_wa
Not quite true as they have heaped more and more responsibility upon our backs while providing less support.
 @wynooheeman  @OrcasThunder  @SpeedyGonzalez  @al_wa I love when they out themselves with the "communist" word... TEABAGGER!
 @wynooheeman  @OrcasThunder  @SpeedyGonzalez  @al_wa You know, ordinarily I wouldn't bother responding to a post that utters the "more openly accept Communism" tripe...not to mention the rest of the nonsense you wrote in that post.
But I felt your post does insist on a response - for the abject incoherence and total lack of focus on the rules of grammar, not to mention that you actually exceeded your usual level of ineptness by at least 3 fold.
I only hope that this is due to your celebration of the pot vote, and not some kind of stroke...
 @SpeedyGonzalez  @OrcasThunder  @al_wa No they didn't. They were never told this in college or when interviewing for a job. You get what you pay for. You want top quality teaching, then you pay for top quality teaching. Just like sports, the best get paid the best, period.
@OrcasThunder @SpeedyGonzalez @al_wa Lets look at this way too audditing some classes at Evergreen on teaching the bring up the same points as you do. How ever the points go on farther that they can be the means to reeducate the children to more openly accept Communism and to reject the ideas of the founding fathers. Also they teach that they can hold the community hostage every year to get what they want no mater what because The union owns the monoply just like a Rockefeller owned standard oil! So they are capitalist holding the have nots down to keep the power they have to do so they use words like oppressed and crowded class rooms and they have to buy their own supplies. when in the state constitution it is to be provided for them from the general funds
 @OrcasThunder You are 100% right. No teacher becomes a teacher because of the money. They are teachers because they like kids, want to make a different, feel it is important, and any combination of those.  There's no job security, the pay sucks, the hours suck, and the parents suck. Â
 @SpeedyGonzalez  @OrcasThunder  @al_wa No...more like they choose to teach because they love teaching students.
How many other jobs are there where you are REQUIRED to provide supplies for the office? Would you work in an office where YOU had to buy the paper, staples and even pencils? What if you had to bring in your own computer?
Your tone tells me that you think it is OK to take advantage f the workers simply because they happen to like the work...which is unfair. Granted, there are a lot of capitalists who seem to think that is the way to go, the way to get ahead. Fortunately they lost the election...and that's just for starters.
 @al_wa teacher's unions have very strong bias