State looks at stern rules for juveniles with guns
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - Washington lawmakers began exploring a proposal Thursday that would send more youths into a rehabilitation program if they are caught illegally possessing a gun.
In a committee hearing before the state House, King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg said current law leaves the impression that the state tolerates juvenile possession of firearms by allowing them to quickly return back to their ways. He said it's important to send a message about the long-term consequences of using a gun.
"A lot of what we're trying to do here is turn a kid's life around," Satterberg said.
Democratic Rep. Christopher Hurst, an Enumclaw lawmaker sponsoring the bill, said the state needs to help kids avoid making foolish decisions that will change their lives forever.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Washington opposed the bill, with legislative director Shankar Narayan saying the effort could actually start the process of cycling people in and out of prison for the rest of their lives. He said there's no evidence that the proposal would help decrease youth violence and that the plan takes away options from judges.
State officials project that the bill would cost between about $1 million to $3 million per year, and the ACLU believes that money would be better spent on other intervention efforts.
"We need to spend our precious public safety resources where they will actually make a difference," Narayan said.
The measure handles cases depending on age, type of conviction and past offenses, but many juveniles convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm would face an initial sentence of at least 15 weeks in the rehabilitation program.
The House Judiciary Committee did not take a vote on the measure.
In a committee hearing before the state House, King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg said current law leaves the impression that the state tolerates juvenile possession of firearms by allowing them to quickly return back to their ways. He said it's important to send a message about the long-term consequences of using a gun.
"A lot of what we're trying to do here is turn a kid's life around," Satterberg said.
Democratic Rep. Christopher Hurst, an Enumclaw lawmaker sponsoring the bill, said the state needs to help kids avoid making foolish decisions that will change their lives forever.
The American Civil Liberties Union of Washington opposed the bill, with legislative director Shankar Narayan saying the effort could actually start the process of cycling people in and out of prison for the rest of their lives. He said there's no evidence that the proposal would help decrease youth violence and that the plan takes away options from judges.
State officials project that the bill would cost between about $1 million to $3 million per year, and the ACLU believes that money would be better spent on other intervention efforts.
"We need to spend our precious public safety resources where they will actually make a difference," Narayan said.
The measure handles cases depending on age, type of conviction and past offenses, but many juveniles convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm would face an initial sentence of at least 15 weeks in the rehabilitation program.
The House Judiciary Committee did not take a vote on the measure.
"Democratic Rep. Christopher Hurst, an Enumclaw lawmaker sponsoring the bill, said the state needs to help kids avoid making foolish decisions that will change their lives forever"
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No the PARENTS need to be responsible for their kids making foolish decision, not taxpayers. It's not that hard, get caught with a gun, go to juvie. If you kill someone with the stolen gun, jail. My tax dollars should not be paying to rehab anyone.Â
There needs to be some serious consequences for illegally carrying a firearm... I'm all for rehab (for the PARENTS as well since they are the ones that created their little angel), but it needs to be in conjunction with jail time. No more coddling and slapping of the wrists. It doesn't work! (i.e. Tuba man killers, anyone???) As far as the ACLU's concerns.... let me toss them a quarter so they can buy themselves a clue. Who in the Eff are they kidding with their stupid reasonings? There is a reason the ACLU is also known as All Criminals Love Us.
ROTFLOL! Stern rules huh. What are they going to do slap their hand and take away the Xbox?
Start locking up the parents and then people will start thinking twice about having kids!
 @Half-Baked Or they'll just let the kids run wild or get sent to some State facility while they get 3 square meals a day. Take away the parents' guns and garnish their wages to pay for what they cost the courts - that should get their attention.
 @tats76  @Half-Baked Maybe allow the parents the ability to actually punish the kids, instead of the hand-wringing they are stuck with now. I'd say you can't punish the parents when you have removed most of their options for any real discipline through intrusive laws.
Wonderful idea. Judging from the smashing success of juvenile drug rehab, it should be at the top of the list of things to do.
How about some real prison terms for adults first?
It's already illegal. What's the punishment right now?Â
Gun rehab?? Please don't let these goofs waste any more money on another worthless program, to employ more overpaid, and underachieving state employees.Â
I worked in the JRA at one of the facilities that many of these idiots would have to be rehabbed at. The only things  Green Hill and Maple Lane ever taught the kids were too be better, skillful manipulators of everyone and everything. That and put in "work" for when they eventually graduate to DOC. We're all better off sending  them all straight to DOC - give them ten mandatory years and keep them there! Â
Stuff the ACLU - underage and unlawfully carrying a gun likely means intent to use said gun to commit a crime. Immediate intervention is appropriate.
And the ACLU opposes the idea. Shocker...
@HawkEye You mean A = All C = Criminals L = Love U = us?
Any gun related crime should be worth mandatory, no probation, years in prison. Adults more, juveniles less, but years just the same.
 @uscit16791949 That's exactly right.  Gun Crime Preset.  Ten years up front, no parole, no plea bargain, no lawyering, no leniency.  Where's that initiative, Tim?
 @tufa23  @uscit16791949 Interesting. So all you have to do to get someone tossed in jail is plant a gun on them when they are headed for a "gun-free zone" and then call the cops anonymously. Are you SURE that's a good idea?
Any Kid that commits a crime with hand gun charge his as$ as an adult. It won't stop these kids but we can get them off the street sooner. These kids are not going to rehabilitate, anymore than the men coming out of Monroe Reformority.
 @Telman Brilliant! Then you then recommend sending the 9 year old boy who shot the 8 year old girl in Bremerton to Monroe? I wonder how long he would survive in there...
 @justmyopinion  @Telman http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170036/Boy-shoots-year-old-friend-neighborhood-park-leaves-dead.html
@justmyopinion @Telman Depending upon the circumstances, it should be handled accordingly. A 16 year old -- they are old enough to know better and should be prosecuted as an adult. In the case of the 9 year old, he didn't know any better and it was not intentional -- in his case I'm all for the parents being held responsible because they allowed their child to access their gun.
Two words: CORPORAL PUNISHMENT!! I'm 62 and it sure as hell worked when I was a kid.
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REHABILITATION? For minor in posession of a firearm? How the hell do you rehabilitate that?
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Two more words:Â WAKE UP!
I say that any juvenile (or adult illegally possessing a firearm) caught with a gun should spend AT LEAST one year behind bars. If they used a gun during a criminal act then their sentence should be extended for a MINIMUM of a year (if not longer) because a gun was used. Crack the whip!
 @Tattooed_Angel Agreed! 15 weeks of "rehab" is a joke!
 @Tattooed_Angel I'm pro Gun and I agree with this post.
And while their locked up they should be required to do hard physical manual labor and pay off the fees associated with them being locked up.
 @Tattooed_Angel That should apply for any crime, but you know it won't happen in this State.
We as a society need to see some return on our incarceration dollars. Juvenile offenders, while in custody should be required to either attend job training or educational classes (GED) AND be required to work. There is no reason that low and medium risk offenders can't be on work parties that pick-up trash, paint over graffiti and do other chores around the community. If working and attending classes six days a week doesn't turn some of these kids around at least we will be getting some return on our investment.
@Ned Totally agree, with the amount of offenders we should have every street in America cleaned up and spit shined, why do they not have low risk, small crime offenders do this with armed guards of course, instead of sitting in jail watching tv, sounds like a good rehab to me
Step in the right direction, any 20 year old and under with a pistol or 17 and under with a rifle should be tried as a Adult and punished the same.
Ask the Tuba Man what he thinks...oh wait forget it..his killer is back in jail by the way, killed someone else at the Munchbar...yeah take it easy on those juveniles
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 @the unvarnished truth Love your idea except for one thing. Here in WashiNanny State, even if you do receive the death penalty, it's rarely, if ever carried out. If it were, and criminals KNEW they would be put to death, maybe they would fear the justice system. As it sits now, to the criminals, our justice system is nothing but a big joke. Ask that kid that killed Tuba man, and has been on a crime spree ever since. All of those little swats on his tushy did NOTHING to curb his thug behavior and he went on to finally kill someone. How much are you willing to bet he gets less than 20 years? Until our society really gets tough on criminals, and I mean brutally tough, all of these little "feel good measures" the politicos keep talking about are mute point.
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90% of teens that commit crimes with guns are either gang bangers or wannabe gang bangers. Those are facts so how about we nip the real issue in the butt. Being a badass is glorfied everyday by the little gang banger culture to the point where it is ridiculous. If they were such badasses why do they need to pull the trigger after they get their ass kicked? Take it like a man and walk away.
@tyked. They aren't men. They can't take it and just walk away. They're punks that can't deal with their emotions and don't understand what real 'respect' actually is. They're uneducated, disconnected, uncivilized, disillusioned punks with no moral compass. Rabid little animals. OK, I need some coffee.
Here is a good compromise: enforce the laws we have maybe go and strengthen the sentences for them but don't make new ones.  Also reintroduce gun education back into schools. We can't expect kids to learn anything if we don't teach them along with the ramifications of their choices.  I'm sure many kids don't know they can legal own a shotgun or rifle at 18.  They probably also don't know what to do if a teen finds a gun and an adult isn't around to help that is if the adult even knows what to do.
The ACLU can go F$%^ themselves. Delete this comment if you want but I know a lot of people feel the exact same way!!!
@tkyed You mean A = All C = Criminals L = Love U = Us?
The ACLU has done more to damage the morality of America than it's done to preserve it. The ACLU needs to go away as being discredited. There is no reason we should not enforce the laws already in the books, and it's illegal for children to run around with a gun. Punish them as our laws direct.
It's all hogwash.
The majority of problems we face in society is due to society and the liberal concepts it prevokes.
40 years ago I got a well desevred hack in the boiler room by th VP of my school. Then I got another when I got home.
Can't do that today. 40 Years ago, ya got held back a grade if ya couldn't pass the class. Hell, I got held back one when I DID pass.
40 years ago, folks didn't sue each other when their own stoopidity (personal choice)Â was involed.
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Fast forward...
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Today, we encourage users. Hell, we pay people not to work, have kids, abuse the system, and feed their spawn free lunch every day of the year. We encourage them to vote when they shouldn't be allowed to.
20 years ago, ya got 12 months of unemployment. Ya got food stamps. When ya got change back, it was in food stamps. Now ya get a card ya can swipe and cash back. WTH?!
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The fish rots from the head down. What do you expect when you promote the very issues that exacerbate the problem?
More rotting? Rotting at a quicker rate? Nahhh... It's gonna make things better. You'll see.
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@bobalouie RIGHT ON BOBALOUIE!!
......that would send more youths into a rehabilitation program if they are caught illegally possessing a gun.
Why yes, having an adult wag his finger & tell them they've been naughty children will work wonders.
Try this:Â 1st conviction results in 6 months jail time...and that is merely for the possession.
               2nd conviction results in 5 years minimum
               3rd: 10 years
That would be for starters...of course with increased time for what crime they committed with said gun.
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The ACLU can blow it out their __________
WA should adopt something similar to Florida. 10 - 20 - Life. Commit a crime with a gun on possession, minimum 10 yrs. Commit a crime, while actually using a gun, minimum 20 yrs, fire the gun, automatic Life.
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This will keep gun carrying Criminals in Jail longer/
Oh the ACLU said no...are they our elected representatives that are going to fix this?
Rehab and community service. Make them dig ditches and give them a punishment as well as some help. Put those guys to work!!
 @Sanctuary ....as long as they're shackled....
Hey, don't just go after kids with guns! Also go after kids that beat people like Tuba Man to death!
O-O-O-O! "Fifteen weeks"! That sure turned around the lives of Kenneth Kelly, Billy Chambers, and Ja'Mari Jones (Tuba Man murders) didn't it?
Does no good to send kids to prison. All you do is crank out more career criminals. Its time to start figuring out a way to make the parents responsible for their kids till they turn 18. If  a kid is busted with a firearm make their parents attend a gun safety training class and maybe some sort of parenting class. Make them lose a couple work days to help their kids. If its a repeat offender then the family and kid has made thier decision about what direction their  life is going to take.
@Blindman let parents actually discipline their kids, you spank your kid you go to jail in the old days when spankings were allowed kids werent doing this kinda crap, but liberals ruined that one.
 @takingamericaback  @Blindman If anyone is worried about what people are thinking when it comes to punishing your kids, they should not be a parent. I spank my kids when needed. I have one child that has never needed a spanking, one that just needs to be put into the corner, and another that needs to be strip of everything with a spanking. I don't care what anyone thinks. I raise my children to be respectful. I have never beat any of my kids, but they all know that I will if they do dumba** stuff that could ruin the rest of their life. Every child is different and some need harsher punishments. I do not care what any book, friend, family member, or neighbor says I should do. I know my child best and I will take care of it. I am a proud parent and I will spank my child, to keep his a** in line.Â
@Just my say As I stated in another story, I have (on occasion) needed to spank my son. My brother and I were also "tuned up" when we were growing up. I get compliments all the time about how respectful my son is, as did my mother when my brother and I were growing up. The problem with kids nowadays is that they have no respect for others whatsoever.
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If more parents spanked their children then maybe they wouldn't be so rude and disrespectful.
 @Blindman The problem is that a lot of these punks have no father in the house, the mother is a welfare crack user and they are gang members. They are hopelessly lost to ever becoming productive members of society.