Vets to troops: You don't have to deploy if you don't want to
LAKEWOOD, Wash. -- As thousands of local servicemen and women get ready to deploy to Afghanistan, a group of veterans is launching a campaign to tell troops there is a way to opt out legally.
The Coalition of Veterans' Organizations reached out to active-duty soldiers on Monday, saying the tide has turned against the war in Afghanistan. The group stood on the Freedom Bridge over Interstate 5 near the entrance to the Army base, waving a banner.
The message behind the group's "Our Lives, Our Rights" campaign: you don't have to go if you don't want to. The veterans say the troops simply need to claim "conscientious objector" status.
"In fact, you don't have to be there and that's what this campaign is all about -- letting people know what their options are," said group member Mike Prysner.
"I think there are people out there who would be receptive to it," said Greg Miller a former member of the Fourth Stryker brigade. "I know I would be, if I were getting ready to go to Afghanistan, and I didn't know anything about conscientious objection."
The Stryker unit is slated to head to Afghanistan over the next month or so.
The last soldier to resist heading into combat made headlines. Lt. Ehren Watada was court-martialed, but it ended in a mistrial and Watada was dishonorably discharged in 2009.
Army veterans say going for conscientious objector status is a better way.
"There are actually some alternatives. They're not necessarily easy ones; there's no guarantees," said Vietnam war resister Gerry Condon.
Condon was a special forces medic in the Vietnam era who fled the U.S.
"And we're here to help you," he said. "If you want our help, we're here for you."
But military analysts say getting conscientious objector status is difficult, especially with an all-volunteer Army.
"You volunteered. You signed up for this. You probably took enlistment bonuses. You probably took a lot of training and benefits. And now as it approaches you decide to object to it? I think that's a little disingenuous," said Ret. Col. Mike Courts, a former Army commander.
But the group of vets claims the war in Afghanistan in no longer a fight for freedom.
"We signed up to serve our country, but we didn't sign up to have our lives thrown away in a political chess game," Prysner said.
The group announced the campaign last June and since then, only one has taken the group up on its offer. But the group says Monday was the first day they actually reached out to troops.
The Coalition of Veterans' Organizations reached out to active-duty soldiers on Monday, saying the tide has turned against the war in Afghanistan. The group stood on the Freedom Bridge over Interstate 5 near the entrance to the Army base, waving a banner.
The message behind the group's "Our Lives, Our Rights" campaign: you don't have to go if you don't want to. The veterans say the troops simply need to claim "conscientious objector" status.
"In fact, you don't have to be there and that's what this campaign is all about -- letting people know what their options are," said group member Mike Prysner.
"I think there are people out there who would be receptive to it," said Greg Miller a former member of the Fourth Stryker brigade. "I know I would be, if I were getting ready to go to Afghanistan, and I didn't know anything about conscientious objection."
The Stryker unit is slated to head to Afghanistan over the next month or so.
The last soldier to resist heading into combat made headlines. Lt. Ehren Watada was court-martialed, but it ended in a mistrial and Watada was dishonorably discharged in 2009.
Army veterans say going for conscientious objector status is a better way.
"There are actually some alternatives. They're not necessarily easy ones; there's no guarantees," said Vietnam war resister Gerry Condon.
Condon was a special forces medic in the Vietnam era who fled the U.S.
"And we're here to help you," he said. "If you want our help, we're here for you."
But military analysts say getting conscientious objector status is difficult, especially with an all-volunteer Army.
"You volunteered. You signed up for this. You probably took enlistment bonuses. You probably took a lot of training and benefits. And now as it approaches you decide to object to it? I think that's a little disingenuous," said Ret. Col. Mike Courts, a former Army commander.
But the group of vets claims the war in Afghanistan in no longer a fight for freedom.
"We signed up to serve our country, but we didn't sign up to have our lives thrown away in a political chess game," Prysner said.
The group announced the campaign last June and since then, only one has taken the group up on its offer. But the group says Monday was the first day they actually reached out to troops.
This is as bad as the members of the National Guard who were "shocked" when called to active duty. If you don't want to serve then don't enlist. You can't have it both ways.
You are enlistee's and officiers in the US Armed forces ... you swear to follow the orders of your president! Nothing pisses me off more than people who think they can enlist and refuse to fight. That is what could happen in the service if your not comfortable with that then don't sign up! Honestly your rights when you are in the service belong to the armed service for which you are in... that means you follow orders to deply! That Lt should have been punished even harder because them letting that get off just opend the door for more of this crap. People who enlist with no intention of meeting their sworn oath obligatiosn are pathetic! I didn't agree with the wars hence I never signed up... they should have thought of that before they signed on the dotted line!
You do not swear an oath to your fake president, you swear an oath to uphold the constitution, big difference. I agree I wish kids and particularly their parents would think things over before they decide to sign their life away. The problems don't just end when you leave the service. They follow you for the rest of your lives. I just wish people would read a little before they decide to enlist. If you read and discover all the false flag events that have resulted in these fake wars and then you still decide to enlist, so be it. But don't come back home whining about it when you legs get blown off. @Freespeech
@Blindman @Freespeech Fake President? You mean the one currently in office who was legally elected by the citizens of the united states? Thats not the definition of "Fake". And for the record, yes you do serve an oath of allegiance to the President. In fact, this is exact oath I took when I enlisted in 1996 in the Army:
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"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
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You might want to rethink that stupid comment, its right there in the oath. Disobeying the oath of enlistment is a court martialable offense. You might want to rethink that stupid comment, particularly when it is obvious you have never served a day in your life.
I read plenty before I enlisted, and I have not have had any problems since I finished up my service, so again, thats another stupid blanket statement that is untrue.
@Blindman @Freespeech WRONG!!! You do not get to pick and choose who you follow when you take the oath. "
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
 @Stu_Pid simply saying the president is the man giving the order at the top so whoever the president is you are swearing to enforce what the commanders at the top tell you to do...you do not get to choose what and whose orders you follow...seems like many folks do not understand that...i salute those who volunteer to fight to protect my freedom and protect this great country
 @Freespeech You have a valid point, however I think the majority willingly who signed on the dotted line, keep that oath and will go to war if directed to do so, ok, and I think it is in the minority of those who change their mind, so there is probably enough blood to go around.
Raise your hand if you work for Boeing or one of the other corporations for the military-industrial complex. PS, you are not allowed to strike. EVER!
 @aquariusman . What's your point? Please clarify.
 @d_2 Wondering that myself.
My Dad was in WW11 (Navy), my brother was in Viet Nam (Navy), my sister was Navy but stayed State side, my nephew was in the Gulf war (Marines), my Dad was in the thick of it in Pearl Harbor, he told horror stories about what he witnessed, as well as did my brother, war, brings nothing but death and destruction, they all did what they were told, they were some of the lucky ones to come home, they took  that oath, they fulfilled it for their Government, what did they get from their Government when they came back? zip, oh ok, they could use the Veterans Hospital, and we all know how wonderful they treat our Veterans, my Dad and Sister both died at the hands of the Veterans Hospital, so I guess my rant is, ok these men and women signed up, took an oath, now want to back down, I can't blame them, what do they have to look forward to if and when they come home from these  wars? if your lucky enough to make it out alive, you live with what you saw and did (killing people) for the rest of your life, our Veterans Affairs, Hospitals are not equiped to handle more war torn men and women,  yes, ok they took an oath, but most don't understand just what they are swearing to, did you understand the makings of war when you were in your teens and twentys? and for those who think our military people are raking in the bucks, think again, I know many active military people, some with children who have to get food stamps because they can not make it on what they earn from the military, sure you sign up, get all the bonuses, insentive pay bla, bla, bla, but guess what? you can't spend it when you're dead, so maybe the one's who have changed their minds need to return the big buck incentives they were given in exchange for their mental health and their lives.
 @MC WW11? How long was I asleep?
 @MC it was just a joke, didn't mean anything by it, sorry
 @Larry*X*K Ok, I get very emotional over things like this, I don't wish death on anyone, sorry if I over reacted..
 @Larry*X*K Did I say that wrong? pardon WORLD WAR TWO, is that better?, I don't know, how long were you asleep? please don't nit pick over such trivial things as one or two words, this is serious to me, maybe it's a joke to you, but not to me.
Good for the vets. Its about time they spoke up and tried to put an end to this illegal war in Afghanistan. Whats going on over there has absolutely nothing to do with us. If the draft does go into effect in the next couple of years because of all this sabre rattling, don't fall for it. Just tell them you're a Jehovah's Witness and you won't have to go. They lie to you all the time so its fine to lie to them.
 @Blindman Better yet, why not sign on as a Jehovah's Witness, that way in all good conscience you don't have to lie.
Used to be a Jehovah Witness until my brain solidified into information gathering tool. Was a baptist before that. Don't need a false profit to tell me right from wrong. @MCÂ Â @Blindman
@MC @Blindman Pretty soon Truth Percolates will come in and start blaming the liberals and the democrats for something. These things always become circuses like this
 @Blindman Possibly I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, false profits, hellfire, brimstone, Witnesse's, Mormons, Baptists etc. should probably be reserved for another forum, you brought religion into it, what I was talking about is, if you don't want to tell lies, (as we all know, everyone hates a lier) become a Witness and that way it isn't a lie, that's all that I meant.
 @Blindman Amazingly clear show of your (lack of) Character--
Don't sign up for the military if you don't want to deploy.
The bottom line when you enlist in any of the armed forces is that you may be called upon to defend your country and that may involve risking your life.
Use your brain people!
I would like to meet these vets that are saying this. I'm a former Marine Corps vet that served in the Middle East and I'll bet these are the same type of people that enlisted because they had nowhere else to go.
If they refuse to deploy, are they going to reimburse the government & taxpayers for money spent on their training? If you sign up for the military, being deployed is something you risk.  If you don't want that risk, don't sign up!Â
 @Shelly Also, are they going to give back their re-enlistment bonuses? Those are in the THOUSANDS of dollars!
 @Shelly What would you say to the people who are being deployed for the 4th + tour and have obvious PTSD?
 @quidproquo  @Shelly A 4th tour would mean that they would have to have re-enlisted. So they knew twice what they were getting in to.
 @Nick  @Shelly Stop loss actually.
@quidproquo @Shelly That would be a different scenario. Obviously soliders with PTSD need help and should not be put back in battle. This story is not about that. This guy fled the U.S. to avoid the Veitnam War, a war to which my dad had 5 tours in. And now he is back in America helping others skip out on doing what they were trained to do. Your name says it all, we train you, you serve your country.
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O.K. It is true the kids coming out of high school are not with the morals and idealism that the older generation had. You can not equate today with the Vietnam era, that was the draft and we were just backing up our word in the SEATO treaty. The idea that a mans word is his bond and if his word is no good then he is no good does not exist anymore. That being said what did these kids think they were getting into? The military is the military and you do what you are told. You become part of something bigger than you are. When I went in I made $98 a month, but we did our jobs.
You can not say gee sir I don't want to do that. If you could everything would fail.
@whitewings2003 Thank you for your service.
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Sure if you don't mind being labeled a coward for the rest of your life, but I guess to some is still better to be a coward than a hero with no arms or legs, tough choice
 @Larry*X*K being a coward has nothing to do with this. Ask yourself why we are still there? I never once thought that it was for freedom. They use freedom as an excuse for their political chess match. They should all come home.
 @donner I agree with the come home part, but if you desert your platoon, or squad or any other members of your unit you live and train with, you are a coward.
 @Larry*X*K My sister just finished tour number 5. She has done her time. Its been almost 9 years.  I wouldn't call her a coward if she decided enough was enough. She goes there to sit next to civilian contractors that do the same job she does for 5x the pay.  It's BS.
@quidproquo @Larry*X*K And she was the one that signed the inlistment papers. She voluntarily elected to join the service. This is America, she could have choose to be a civilian contractor and make 5x the pay, but she didn't she signed the papers and we thank her for her service.Â
 @msouthj  @quidproquo By paying her less than someone doing the exact same job.Â
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Classy.
@quidproquo @Larry*X*K She can always resign her comission.
OK to change your mind...free country, but read the contract you signed.  It has consequences. I know the vast majority of our armed forces are young.  What I don't know is how much an ounce of idealism is worth these days.
BEWARE OF Â THE MILITARY Â INDUSTRIAL Â COMPLEX Â !!!!
@seatown79@hotmail.com BEWARE OF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX !!!!! (that lets you write these idiotic posts because of their sacrifice and love for this country)
Seems the American vets and citizens of this mighty USA woke up a lot sooner about Viet Nam, but later is better than never...
 @Windowseat Well yes, Vietnam was a draft.  This is on the backs of a few, who remain out of sight out of mind for many Americans awaiting the release of the next iPad....
(Excerpt from Monty Python Sketch)Â
SOLDIER: I'd like to leave the army, please, sir.Â
OFFICER: Good heavens man, why?Â
SOLDIER: It's dangerous.Â
OFFICER: What?Â
SOLDIER: Real guns, Sir. Not toy ones, sir. Proper ones, sir. They've all got them, all of them, sir. And some of them have got tanks.Â
OFFICER: Watkins, why did you join the army?Â
SOLDIER: For the water skiing and the travel, sir.Â
 @Sid Vishess Jolly Good!
Join the service collect the benifits and then when your asked to do your job just say no . Yeah real honor there . Do these morons read the contract they sign when they join . The government is in real trouble if we continue to allow just say no  Time to get tough
@armchairquaterback It isn't the government that is in trouble. it is the entire country that is in trouble when more and more people refuse to honor thier responsibility. Not just in the military, but in all aspects of life. This is just another indication of the 'i' society we have become.
 @armchairquaterback Agree.  We have GOT to defend this government.  The one that no longer trusts it's people.  The one that spies on us.  That one.
what it sounds like to me is they are saying tell whatever lie it takes to get out, but that's what would expect from people who have no code or honor
If not for the Bush & Crook Corporation we wouldn't be stuck in this mess.... Â Thanks Republicans. Â
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 @Andrew Bush I think a lot of your angst has to do with  stuff like this...
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"Following the end of Operation Desert Storm in February 1991, the Pentagon, led by then defense secretary Dick Cheney, paid Halliburton subsidiary Brown & Root Services over $8.5 million to study the use of private military forces with American soldiers in combat zones.  In 1995, Cheney replaced Thomas H. Cruikshank, as chairman and CEO."
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@Andrew Bush So hows Barrack doing on pulling our troops home.... oh wait, he hasn't.
 @SilverGryphon In all fairness I think Obama is doing as good a job as any president has, maybe better.
  @SilverGryphon I see the problem as every president, before elected has promised he has the fix for the mess we are in, they all sound trustworthy, honest, and say things we all want to hear, problem is, once they are elected and see just what kind of mess was left behind by the former presidents, it's not as easy to fix as was promised, Obama is just as good as any of the past presidents, it can't be easy to take over the reins and fix everything in 4 years, I hope he is given more time, and elected again.
 @SilverGryphon  @Andrew Seems to me he's been seeking the advice of the military on this and working as they've asked...a build up and then a draw down.  I don't see anything going on other than trying to push his agenda (he was voted in to do so) the best he can and it's obviously being tempered by national security concerns.  Wake up.  We used to support our presidents.  As a country we stand better united in the eyes of the world.
@Andrew Bush Brother Barry has had almost 4 years to get them out of there so why are they still there; oh, I forgot brother Barry is no different than any other president we have had in the past few decades.
 @Crimsonkid  @Andrew Bush Sr stopped at Baghdad.  To this day I don't understand the weapons of mass destruction excuse (or bad intel) that drove B2 to go to war like that.  Do you remember the coalition he pulled together at the last minute..  Places like Togo were providing troops?  All in all he called the shot on this one and should bear the blame.  It may have been a poor decision in the long (certainly longer than thought) run.
 @Andrew Bush the saddest part of your comment is that you probably believe it. At your core you believe Bush/Cheney murdered every single American serviceman who has died since 9/11/2001 so that they (Bush/Cheney) could profit personally). The one endearing part of this sentiment is that no matter how insulting and how genuinely insane the idea is, you are free to believe it.