With ballots still uncounted, charter schools backers claim victory
SEATTLE (AP) - There are ballots left to be counted, but backers of Washington's charter school initiative have claimed victory.
With about 90 percent of ballots expected counted Saturday, Initiative 1240 was passing with 51 percent of the vote - a 41,689-vote gap. There are about 315,000 ballots received statewide that have not been tallied. The initiative was losing in King County, the state's largest.
Washington voters have rejected the proposal four times since 1995.
If results hold, Washington would become the 42nd state to allow the public independent schools.
Supporters say the charter proposal would offer new choices for struggling kids and their families. Opponents say charters have a mixed track record in other states and they would take away money from regular public schools.
With about 90 percent of ballots expected counted Saturday, Initiative 1240 was passing with 51 percent of the vote - a 41,689-vote gap. There are about 315,000 ballots received statewide that have not been tallied. The initiative was losing in King County, the state's largest.
Washington voters have rejected the proposal four times since 1995.
If results hold, Washington would become the 42nd state to allow the public independent schools.
Supporters say the charter proposal would offer new choices for struggling kids and their families. Opponents say charters have a mixed track record in other states and they would take away money from regular public schools.
It is fine to educate students for entering college, but there are students that won't be going to college. The education system should also teach the non college bound students something useful, like a trade. The German vocational schooling system may be a good example to follow.
http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/06__Foreign__Policy__State/02__Foreign__Policy/05__KeyPoints/Vocational__Training.html
So if they win then the already underfunded schools will get cut more so the state can pay for charter schools too.
Why does that box at the bottom say "WA, Election, 2008" and scrawled under that
"-Do Not Count-"
"Ballots for D. R."
I'm for whatever improves the education of the children in this state. Over the past 30 years not much has improved no matter how much money was poured into the current system.
As long as the teacher unions get a good kick in the gonads, it is all good.
 @pbs7mm Yep as long as "the teacher unions get a good kick in the gonads, it is all good". I guess you never stopped to ask why a handful of the supper rich would out spend those against charter schools 19 to 1? Those damn greedy teachers wanting smaller class sizes, a say in policy (they're the ones working in the trenches) and their pay to keep up with inflation. You sure have it all logically figured out.
This is where my problem lies. Instead of throwing money away to build charter schools, how about we fix the broken ones we already have? If a part on your car breaks, do you just leave it in your driveway and go buy another one every time it happens? No, you fix the problem. We need to do the same with the broken down overcrowded schools we already pay for. Fix them. Not just build more.
 @tbirdfan190 To use your auto reference, think about the movie (and maybe the outgoing gov) "Christine" . The owner of the garage is amazed that the kid who owns the car puts brand new wiper blades on a broken windshield. Well the windshield is busted on our school system and it's burning oil too. we're not junking the whole car, just getting some new parts that will make our school system run a little better.
 @tbirdfan190 We HAVE been throwing away money to FIX the broken one's we already have. The PROBLEM is the reason they don't get fixed is because we have too many non-essential people on the payroll in these school districts. This state refuses to get rid of these useless people and won't spend the money wisely. THIS IS WHAT WASHINGTON CONTINUALLY KEEPS VOTING FOR!!!
 @Robinsnest  @tbirdfan190 Please post evidence of Washington's broken system. I'm not providing any because it might as well be a learning experience for you. Hint: check out SAT scores, CAT scores and the older ITBS (before we stopped using it in favor of the useless and billion dollar waste of WASL/MSP) scores.
 @tbirdfan190 The problem is that there are too many entrenched special interests that PREVENT fixing the existing schools. We NEED a wholesale overhaul of the state schools system but it won't happen unless we can prove there is something better.
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AND, the charter schools will not be "built" with tax dollars. They will use existing facilities and be run by non-profit groups. Only the money that is nominally apportioned to the individual students will follow those students that transfer to a charter school.
 @Furd  @tbirdfan190 Charters DO get tax money and levy money. There is no accountability for how they spend levy dollars. Read the initiative as there are many red flags. There is an excellent chance it will be knocked out in court.
Funny i was just reading an article about why ballots take longer to count in Washington State than anywhere else in the country. And that was from a newspaper 3-days ago!
Issues related to public education boil down to two things - 1) taxpayers' belief that a top quality school system can be bought for next to nothing and staffed outstanding teachers who will work for next to nothing and 2) adults with no business even being parents in the first place taking no meaningful role in the education - or upbringing - of their own children, with the expectation that the school system will take care of everything. Charter schools are just one more scam to introduce bias and self-interest into a sound general curriculum under the guise of the promise to "fix" education, selling it well to irresponsible parents and irrational taxpayers who refuse to acknowledge the real reason for their desperate search for simpleminded solutions to complex and difficult problem that they themselves caused.
 @wysoumible I completely disagree with all that you wrote EXCEPT the part about certain people who shouldn't even be parents.
Next to nothing? Have you looked recently and seen how much money the K-12 system pisses away each year?
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What the K-12 system needs is a little old fashioned competition. If it wasn't for competition, we'd all be paying $10 for Big Macs that would be half the size.
@wysoumible Several people (that I know of) voted for it... because we need to do "something". Well, how about getting legislatures to do their JOB?
 @wysoumible WOW! Well said!Â
We already have alternative schools, I was kinda confused as to why we need charter schools too.
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Unless I've missed something...?
@WAbornnraised while some alternative shools are good most are were the school district dumps the kids that will not behave and the parents have taken no interist in thier education. Charter schools will be alowed to set rules about things from dress to behavior and parents involvment. If the parent and student do not perforem to the schools standard they will get the boot. The problem with the curent public schools is just that. They can not hold the students or the parents accountable for thier performance and this drags the whole class down. This is something that can really help those that truly want thier kids to excell in school and not just survive the gontlent that is so many of the high schools today.
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 @bustedupredneck  @WAbornnraised Thank you very much for the information!Â
 @WAbornnraised  @bustedupredneck Except the information is not entirely accurate in regards to what charter schools can and cannot do.
This is too close to call and perhaps should be considered again with a better effort to educate voters about what is going on here. A huge amount of outside dollars have poured into WA to pass this legislation - what's with that? WA schools are doing a great job and this legislation simple pulls money from those efforts to fund private efforts - most likely, fundamentalist religious efforts, thus under-cutting public schools. Who is really behind all the $$$$s that support this charter school effort? WA needs to take a much closer look at what is going on here.
 @ytboarder It is my belief that it is private corporations behind the outside dollars. Watch our taxes go up because corporations are only in business for profit.Â
@Darn it! The only problem with your logic is that corporations have no interest in taxes going up. Quite the opposite in fact.
 @Darn it! It's always the wolf in sheep's clothing these days.... :(
 @Darn it!  @Funky-Munky I moved to a different grade this year and spent $900.00 on new books for my classroom because my students needed them.
 @anonstanwood I understand that. It's the new norm. But that also means that kids aren't getting the parenting they used to and parents are relying on schools to do their job. Parents need to take responsibility for their children.Â
I know it isn't easy when you are both working but it's what you signed up for when you became a parent.Â
 @anonstanwood Sad but true... :(
 @Darn it!  The reason so many kids have both parents working is because if they didn't they'd be living on the streets without a place to live.  With the current cost of living in most parts of the country it is nearly impossible to not have both parents work just so they can afford to pay for the basics, such as housing, food, and utilities. Â
 @Darn it!  @Funky-Munky "I think the Charter School route is a sneaky way to try to get rid of unions and to have teachers working for not much more than minimum wage."
There is no question of that. The only difference between a charter school and a private school is that the private schools admit they are privately run and financed.
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 @Funky-Munky I think many of our problems stem from our population growth. We have lost our sense of community. Also, with both parents working they are pretty much leaving the raising of their children to the schools. Which is wrong. I know it's not true in all cases but in far too many.Â
 @Darn it! I am thinking teachers need a doctorate in Psychiatry to deal with parents and students. In addition bullet proof vests along with a sidearm to assist them in the classrooms. Society is whacked as a whole these days... :(
 @Funky-Munky Totally agree. That being said, I also think our public schools need an overhaul and need to wise up about how they are spending our money. I think the Charter School route is a sneaky way to try to get rid of unions and to have teachers working for not much more than minimum wage. Teachers are now having to pay for classroom supplies out of their pockets. That's not right.Â
If I was was thinking of becoming a teacher I would look at the cost of my education compared to what I could expect to make.Â
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 @Darn it! I am thinking my inner Werewolf is coming out to protect myself from the coming madness pertaining to budgeting and spending by our overinflated, out of control and heading nowhere government. In addition citizens who voted for Charter Schools scare the heck out of me. How on earth can you justify adding more schools when you cannot afford what is already provided?
 @Funky-Munky No reflection on wolves ;)
Charter schools may benefit the children more than district schools do. Ok and that's good. They may be tuned to serve the special needs of their students. It's claimed to be another public school just with a different management system. Sounds good as long the funding for both is equitable, and taxes don't need to be raised. The thing I don't like is the need for the state to budget for a new special committee in Olympia to oversee the non-profit organizations that will manage these schools.
 @johnbe Where did you get the information that they are to be managed by non-profit organizations?
 @Darn it!  @johnbe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Initiative_1240_%282012%29#Ballot_Measure_Title_and_Summary
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If you go to Wikipedia you can access the actual PDF from WA STATE-Â Non-profits are listed as the SOLE entities who are eligible numerous times.
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"This measure would allow a newly-created state commission or approved local school boards to authorize qualifying nonreligious, nonprofit organizations to operate public charter schools, limited to forty schools over five years. Public charter schools would receive standard per-student public school funding and be open to all students without tuition. Public charter schools would be subject to teacher certification requirements, government oversight, and performance reporting requirements, but exempt from certain state laws and school district policies."
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Don't take my word for it....go read the initiative.
 @WA State Mom  @Darn it!  @johnbeÂ
First...I did not question the statement.
Second, there is this from your link:
"Each of these proposals was brought forward by a few wealthy individuals".
So, once more we turn our government over to rich people who are not actually PART of the government...
 @johnbe Right! Me too! (although I had already read it online months ago!) Hooray for the resources to be able to READ the actual initiatives and not have to rely on misleading advertisements and alarmist nay-sayers! (or overly excited truth stretchers!:-)
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Don't take your word for it? I don't have to. I read it in the WA Voter's Pamphlet that I got in the mail along with every other registered voter.
 @Darn it!  @johnbe Probably from sources like this:
http://www.nonprofitsassistancefund.org/clientuploads/MNAF/Impact_of_State_Holdback_on_MN_Charter_Schools_Report_March_2011.pdf
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And then there is this:
"Without sufficient public funding for quality facilities, charter schools face considerable uncertainty and instability as they often begin in temporary space not intended for educational purposes and must deal with the disruption of moves to new locations."
http://www.frbsf.org/publications/community/investments/0405/article4.html
In other words, even without the union wages, they still can't make it - unless they just take over the existing public school facilities...
 @Darn it!  @johnbe And they will all blame it on the Dems and the Governor...
No limits. The schools will be established and we'll end up getting taxed to pay for it like everything else. Olympia has figured a way to add education to property taxes instead of the levies we keep voting down. I think the idea of helping children with special needs is good, but I don't think creating more public paid for bureaucracy is the way to go.
 @OrcasThunder  @johnbe I can't help that a lot of people are going to regret their decision to bring charter schools into our state. We are all going to suffer for it as we see our taxes go up.
 @johnbe And of course they will not take any money from public schools...they said so in one of their TV ads.
And then sorta stated that charter schools will BE "public schools"...so, the truth is that they WILL take public school funds, for new teachers, staff, and facilities (at least until they simply move in rent free into the existing school facilities).
 @OrcasThunder  @johnbe Well, it looks like I have been proven wrong. At least partially wrong. Any limits to the board salaries and overhead in our 'non-profit' charter schools?Â
Like I told the astute folks above, I got it from the obviously little read publication called the WA Voters Pamphlet.
 @Darn it! More than likely the same way most crazy people that voted for this fiasco did.... out of their buns. (my belief) Unicorns, fairy dust and incantations will pay for Charter Schools. Utopia in our country there's no deficit or underfunded anything it's all make believe! Fiscal Cliff... nah.... More like a friggin' plummet to the abyss is more like it with decisions such as these. :( Grrrrooowwwlll!
 @johnbe Yep "....Public charter schools would receive standard per-student public school funding and be open to all students without tuition..." no public money. <sarcasm off>
Good question. Check the text of Initiative 1240 on web page https://wei.sos.wa.gov/agency/osos/EN/Pages/OnlineVotersGuide.aspx . About the 3rd sentence down is "...non-profit organizations...". I read this first in the voters pamphlet. I didn't say I thought it was a good idea, in fact I went so far as to say what I didn't like about it. Out of their buns? No need to reveal your thought process.