After gun crime, weapon history takes time to find

WASHINGTON (AP) - In the fictional world of television police dramas, a few quick clicks on a computer lead investigators to the owner of a gun recovered at a bloody crime scene. Before the first commercial, the TV detectives are on the trail of the suspect.
Reality is a world away. There is no national database of guns. Not of who owns them, how many are sold annually or even how many exist.
Federal law bars the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from keeping track of guns. The only time the government can track the history of a gun, including its first buyer and seller, is after it's used in a crime. And though President Barack Obama and numerous Democratic lawmakers have called for new limits on what kinds of guns should be available to the public and urged stronger background checks in gun sales, there is no effort afoot to change the way the government keeps track - or doesn't - of where the country's guns are.
When police want to trace a gun, it's a decidedly low-tech process.
"It's not CSI and it's not a sophisticated computer system," said Charles J. Houser, who runs the ATF's National Tracing Center in Martinsburg, W. Va.
When police trace a gun, the search starts by sending all the information they have about the gun - including the manufacturer and model - to an office worker in a low-slung brick building just off the Appalachian Trial in rural West Virginia, about 90 miles northwest of Washington.
ATF officials first call the manufacturer, who reveals which wholesaler the company used. That may lead to a call to a second distributor before investigators can pinpoint the retail gun dealer who first sold the weapon. Gun dealers are required to keep a copy of federal forms that detail who buys what gun and a log for guns sold. They are required to share that information with the ATF if a gun turns up at a crime scene and authorities want it traced. Often, gun shops fax the paperwork to the ATF.
That's where the paper trail ends.
In about 30 percent of cases, one or all of those folks have gone out of business and ATF tracers are left to sort through potentially thousands of out-of-business records forwarded to the ATF and stored at the office building that more closely resembles a remote call center than a law enforcement operation.
The records are stored as digital pictures that can only be searched one image at a time. Two shifts of contractors spend their days taking staples out of papers, sorting through thousands of pages and scanning or taking pictures of the records.
"Those records come in all different shapes and forms. We have to digitally image them, we literally take a picture of it," Houser said. "We have had rolls of toilet paper or paper towels ... because they (dealers) did not like the requirement to keep records."
The tracing center receives about a million out-of-business records every month and Houser runs the center's sorting and imaging operations from 6 a.m. to midnight, five days a week. The images are stored on old-school microfilm reels or as digital images. But there's no way to search the records, other than to scroll through one picture of a page at a time.
"We are ... prohibited from amassing the records of active dealers," Houser said. "It means that if a dealer is in business he maintains his records."
Last year the center traced about 344,000 guns for 6,000 different law enforcement agencies. Houser has a success rate of about 90 percent, so long as enough information is provided. And he boasts that every successful trace provides at least one lead in a criminal case.
"It's a factory for the production of investigative leads," Houser said of the tracing center.
A 1968 overhaul of federal gun laws required licensed dealers to keep paper records of who buys what guns and gave ATF the authority to track the history of a gun if was used in a crime. But in the intervening decades, the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups lobbied Congress to limit the government's ability to do much with what little information is collected, including keeping track on computers.
"They (lawmakers) feel that the act of amassing those records would in essence go a step toward creating an artificial registration system," Houser said.
What the ATF can do is give trace information to the law enforcement agency that asked for it and in some cases uses the data to help point them in the direction of other crimes.
Houser said the "manually intensive process" can take about five days for a routine trace. In some cases, completing the trace can mean sifting by hand through paperwork that hasn't yet been scanned.
In more urgent situations, including the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting in Connecticut last year, ATF agents run a trace within about 24 hours. Oftentimes, that involves sending agents to the gun dealer that first sold the weapon to quickly find the paperwork listing its original buyer.
Despite having access to millions of records about gun purchases from dealers that have gone out of business, the ATF isn't allowed to create a database of what guns were sold to whom and when.
ATF does keep tabs on how many guns are manufactured and shipped out of the country every year, but only gun makers and dealers know for sure how many are sold. There are also strict limits on what the agency can do with the gun trace information. And that's just the way the gun lobby and Congress want it.
Various laws and spending bills have specifically barred the ATF from creating a national database of guns and gun owners. And due to the efforts of lawmakers, including former Rep. Todd Tiahrt of Kansas, ATF agents who trace the history of a gun can't share that information with anyone but the police agency that asked for it.
As it stands now, local law enforcement doesn't have access to regional data about gun traces. So if the police commissioner in New York City is trying to figure out where the guns are coming into the city from - whether they're going to New Jersey first or upstate New York, for example - that data is not available because of an amendment introduced by Tiahrt, said Mike Bouchard, a former ATF assistant director for Field Operations. ATF can tell police where most crime guns are traced from, by state. But it does not release information on gun shops or purchasers.
If police chiefs want that, they have to reach out to individual chiefs at other departments and ask.
"It's pretty ridiculous when we have an automated system that will do it for the chiefs," Bouchard said.
Tiahrt said he first proposed limiting access to trace data to make sure the information wasn't available under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act. It was an issue of keeping undercover police, informants and innocent gun buyers and sellers out of the public eye, Tiahrt said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.
Knowing who legally buys guns won't prevent gun violence, the former Republican congressman said.
"We're chasing these wisps of smoke that won't solve the problem," Tiahrt said. "Get to the root cause. Put out the fire. Deal with mental illness. Deal with situational awareness."
Houser said he would prefer the tracing center's operations to be expanded and a center built that would use some technologies to help more easily trace a gun. But until the law changes, his staff will continue removing staples, turning pages right-side-up and taking digital pictures of records.
"Our job is to enforce the laws that are passed to us," Houser said. "What they give us is what we are required to work with."
Reality is a world away. There is no national database of guns. Not of who owns them, how many are sold annually or even how many exist.
Federal law bars the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from keeping track of guns. The only time the government can track the history of a gun, including its first buyer and seller, is after it's used in a crime. And though President Barack Obama and numerous Democratic lawmakers have called for new limits on what kinds of guns should be available to the public and urged stronger background checks in gun sales, there is no effort afoot to change the way the government keeps track - or doesn't - of where the country's guns are.
When police want to trace a gun, it's a decidedly low-tech process.
"It's not CSI and it's not a sophisticated computer system," said Charles J. Houser, who runs the ATF's National Tracing Center in Martinsburg, W. Va.
When police trace a gun, the search starts by sending all the information they have about the gun - including the manufacturer and model - to an office worker in a low-slung brick building just off the Appalachian Trial in rural West Virginia, about 90 miles northwest of Washington.
ATF officials first call the manufacturer, who reveals which wholesaler the company used. That may lead to a call to a second distributor before investigators can pinpoint the retail gun dealer who first sold the weapon. Gun dealers are required to keep a copy of federal forms that detail who buys what gun and a log for guns sold. They are required to share that information with the ATF if a gun turns up at a crime scene and authorities want it traced. Often, gun shops fax the paperwork to the ATF.
That's where the paper trail ends.
In about 30 percent of cases, one or all of those folks have gone out of business and ATF tracers are left to sort through potentially thousands of out-of-business records forwarded to the ATF and stored at the office building that more closely resembles a remote call center than a law enforcement operation.
The records are stored as digital pictures that can only be searched one image at a time. Two shifts of contractors spend their days taking staples out of papers, sorting through thousands of pages and scanning or taking pictures of the records.
"Those records come in all different shapes and forms. We have to digitally image them, we literally take a picture of it," Houser said. "We have had rolls of toilet paper or paper towels ... because they (dealers) did not like the requirement to keep records."
The tracing center receives about a million out-of-business records every month and Houser runs the center's sorting and imaging operations from 6 a.m. to midnight, five days a week. The images are stored on old-school microfilm reels or as digital images. But there's no way to search the records, other than to scroll through one picture of a page at a time.
"We are ... prohibited from amassing the records of active dealers," Houser said. "It means that if a dealer is in business he maintains his records."
Last year the center traced about 344,000 guns for 6,000 different law enforcement agencies. Houser has a success rate of about 90 percent, so long as enough information is provided. And he boasts that every successful trace provides at least one lead in a criminal case.
"It's a factory for the production of investigative leads," Houser said of the tracing center.
A 1968 overhaul of federal gun laws required licensed dealers to keep paper records of who buys what guns and gave ATF the authority to track the history of a gun if was used in a crime. But in the intervening decades, the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups lobbied Congress to limit the government's ability to do much with what little information is collected, including keeping track on computers.
"They (lawmakers) feel that the act of amassing those records would in essence go a step toward creating an artificial registration system," Houser said.
What the ATF can do is give trace information to the law enforcement agency that asked for it and in some cases uses the data to help point them in the direction of other crimes.
Houser said the "manually intensive process" can take about five days for a routine trace. In some cases, completing the trace can mean sifting by hand through paperwork that hasn't yet been scanned.
In more urgent situations, including the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting in Connecticut last year, ATF agents run a trace within about 24 hours. Oftentimes, that involves sending agents to the gun dealer that first sold the weapon to quickly find the paperwork listing its original buyer.
Despite having access to millions of records about gun purchases from dealers that have gone out of business, the ATF isn't allowed to create a database of what guns were sold to whom and when.
ATF does keep tabs on how many guns are manufactured and shipped out of the country every year, but only gun makers and dealers know for sure how many are sold. There are also strict limits on what the agency can do with the gun trace information. And that's just the way the gun lobby and Congress want it.
Various laws and spending bills have specifically barred the ATF from creating a national database of guns and gun owners. And due to the efforts of lawmakers, including former Rep. Todd Tiahrt of Kansas, ATF agents who trace the history of a gun can't share that information with anyone but the police agency that asked for it.
As it stands now, local law enforcement doesn't have access to regional data about gun traces. So if the police commissioner in New York City is trying to figure out where the guns are coming into the city from - whether they're going to New Jersey first or upstate New York, for example - that data is not available because of an amendment introduced by Tiahrt, said Mike Bouchard, a former ATF assistant director for Field Operations. ATF can tell police where most crime guns are traced from, by state. But it does not release information on gun shops or purchasers.
If police chiefs want that, they have to reach out to individual chiefs at other departments and ask.
"It's pretty ridiculous when we have an automated system that will do it for the chiefs," Bouchard said.
Tiahrt said he first proposed limiting access to trace data to make sure the information wasn't available under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act. It was an issue of keeping undercover police, informants and innocent gun buyers and sellers out of the public eye, Tiahrt said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.
Knowing who legally buys guns won't prevent gun violence, the former Republican congressman said.
"We're chasing these wisps of smoke that won't solve the problem," Tiahrt said. "Get to the root cause. Put out the fire. Deal with mental illness. Deal with situational awareness."
Houser said he would prefer the tracing center's operations to be expanded and a center built that would use some technologies to help more easily trace a gun. But until the law changes, his staff will continue removing staples, turning pages right-side-up and taking digital pictures of records.
"Our job is to enforce the laws that are passed to us," Houser said. "What they give us is what we are required to work with."
Data Base is going to make it easier to pick up the guns.Mrs. Clinton has signed the small arms treaty which means the U.N has the right to mandate I think that means 95 other countries can vote on our gun rights.This was Bill Clinton's idea in the 90's because our senators could not pass gun laws it was his way of doing an end run. And now it was come home to roost. Do we know the definition of PROGRESSIVE? This just helps to pick them up!
Is this their excuse for losing track during "Fast and Furious"? Geez if they knew they were this F'd up why did they even bother?
And yet, If I get pulled over by a county sherrif, chances are he'll know whether or not I have a concealed pistol license and what guns I've purchased from gun dealers in Washington State.
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I don't mind, I've got nothing to hide, but don't try to blow smoke up my skirt, I ain't buying it!
@KOMOdo-dragon Yup, that's a fact. If a sheriff or stater runs your license, that informaion is on their computer. That's part of the reason you must produce your drivers license when you purchase a gun. First question they will ask when they come back to your car is if you have a weapon in the car. I've not had it happen to me, but know of others who have.
 @jjccamis You are right they have it know
'Deal with mental illness. Deal with situational awareness.'
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So let's waste another thirty years of slaughter while this little convenient myth is chased down....
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let me guess. this guy is a teabagger who doesn't want to pay taxes and hates "big government".Â
 @tufa23 Ah tufa and the name calling. What would a fiearms article be without tufa calling someone names.
There is an agenda regarding the universal background check, AKA closing the gun show loophole. Such checks would have to be accomplished by a federal firearms licensee, just like a new gun purchase. The transaction must include the filling out of an ATF form 4473. Basically, what you have done, is create a national gun registry, in violation of the Gun Control act of 1968. All that is left is to database those 4473's. This is THE precursor move towards confiscation of firearms. There is no reason for the federal Government to know the location of every single gun, other than confiscation. Further, FFL's are NOT going to perform this action free of charge, the will typically charge on the order of $50 to perform this service. As well, In Washington State, when the FFL performs this action, they are required to collect sales (use) tax.Regardless of whether the transaction was between two people, and even if no money changed hands.There would have to be the additional burden of the estimated value of the firearm changing hands. All these problem amount to a gross infringement on the 2nd Amendment right of individuals.
This comment has been deleted
 @tufa23 So in your perfect world all law abiding gun owners should be punished because of non law abiding gun owners (if you think possession is 9/10s of the law)? Based upon your comments it seems you are very anti gun. So, if you are a law abiding automobile owner, should we take your car away because criminals use automobiles along with guns? Where does it stop, or as I can imagine, you will never stop because "You are a, ..how may I say this as kindly as possible..., a paranoid delusional fool who will stop at nothing in order to preserve the rights of criminals". If you think that making a gun registration database is going to stop criminals then you are helping these criminals because the time and money spent on this database could have been better spent on preventing crimes to begin with. This is not your objective though, for you just want to vilify every gun owner out there so that they turn in their guns instead of listening to your insults.
 @Beam_Me_Up  @tufa23 Umm... the only way to know where an illegal gun  (or gun used in a crime) came from is to track its last legal owner. That's what law enforcement calls a "lead." If you sell your gun through a FFL, they have the info they need to find the criminal. If you don't, you'll have to explain how the gun, that the records show you as being the owner, ended up being used in a crime.Â
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If you skip the paranoia, it's pretty evident that this helps to weed out the non-law abiding gun owners.Â
 @tufa23  @Stephen Ramsey "a paranoid delusional fool who will stop at nothing in order to preserve the rights of criminals." Wow, two instances of name calling within minutes. Tufa is stepping up and showing how a liberal truly acts. Good job.
 @Stephen Ramsey "There is no reason for the federal Government to know the location of every single gun, other than confiscation"
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I love firearms, but that's baloney. There is no confiscation agenda. Confiscating 300m+ is impossible without starting civil war. The reason to know where firearms are, is to solve crimes. Answering the good old "who done it" question.Â
 @Komo Dragon  @Stephen Ramsey the nazis did it the russians did it the chinese did it the japenes did it, england was coming to get our guns right before the revolutionary war, so its not impossible you just cant see it.
 @Komo Dragon  @Stephen Ramsey So, if confiscating 300m+ firearms is impossible how hard is it to put these firearms into a database and how much of that cost would be turned right back to the law abiding gun owners? Are you expecting that all law abiding gun owners will have to verify this information is still correct? Will the law abiding gun owners have to carry all their guns down to a gun shop or law enforcement office to verify? Will the police be sent out to law abiding gun owners if there are any discrepancies?  Anyone who buys a gun if a registration is required will have to bear the cost of this work, I know that the non gun owners would never agree to have the gun registration costs come from the general tax funds. So once again, the law abiding citizen is penalized for being a law abiding citizen. And do you really think that solving a crime is just a matter of looking in a database? If the police already have the gun then they probably already have the perpetrator or do you really think that the legal gun owner is going out and shooting people and leaving their gun behind?Â
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The anti gun crowd love it when the crime show solves the crimes as the star of the shows reaches into the back of the dark closet and pulls out the murder weapon, you know that legally owned gun that the suspect bought, and of course the star did this while wearing sun glasses and holding his hand on his waist just so that the fall of his suit makes him look perfect for the money shot. I really wish the antigunners would grow up and join reality.
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And you may love firearms but you are not a serious owner if you believe that the law abiding gun folks have to keep jumping through hoops every time a criminal does something stupid.Â
 @Komo Dragon  @Stephen Ramsey Because I am a law abiding person. Why do you want to put more laws on the books that only the law abiding people will follow? In this country you are innocent until proven guilty unless you are a law abiding gun owner. The violent people in this society are allowed to run free killing and the law abiding citizens are immediately blamed. I started to think that registration/mandatory FFL processing for all gun sales would not be a bad thing until normal, responsible law abiding citizens are being vilified as the cause for violence in this country. This is absolutely absurd but unfortunately completely expected from the anti gun crowd.  Â
 @Beam_Me_Up  @Komo Dragon  @Stephen Ramsey The cost would be a heck of a lot cheaper if the ATF was allowed to use technology that was developed after I was born.Â
 @Komo Dragon  @Beam_Me_Up  @Stephen Ramsey its non of the governments business what we buy.
 @Beam_Me_Up  @Stephen Ramsey I purchased all my guns from an FFL and I am the first owner. So I am on file and have no problem with it. Why would you have a problem with transacting your purchases and sales through a FFL instead of private undocumented sales? And yes I am serious, just not extreme.
Talk about some AP propaganda for a national gun registry..."And that's just the way the gun lobby and Congress want it."
Great history lesson for the less informed among usÂ
The ATF is a neutered government agency that has really no good purpose to carry out anymore. You can thank the Republicans and the NRA for that. If the Dems ever have a full majority again it would be in their best interest to reverse this BS.
 @BluefireJaguar They are able to trace the weapons fine, just not quickly. It seems to be this strikes a nice balance between the two needs.
 @SeattleJoe  @BluefireJaguar In the five days it takes them to trace the weapon, the criminal is long gone.Â
 @KH  @BluefireJaguar Possibly but not in most cases. Criminals ditch guns and think they are in the clear so they don't really go anywhere very often. Additionally, since most of the guns used in crimes are stolen, a trace doesn't amount to much. It dead ends at the last FFL purchase.The system works. Leave it be.
Someone needs to get that lady a stool.Â
 @Hachee_Bungwhy Better yet, the cool robotic arm from Mission Impossible.