Arkansas adopts country's most restrictive abortion law
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) - Arkansas now has the nation's most restrictive abortion law - a near-ban on the procedure from the 12th week of pregnancy - unless a lawsuit or court action intervenes before it takes effect this summer.
Lawmakers in the Republican-dominated Legislature defied Gov. Mike Beebe, overriding the Democrat's veto. The House voted 56-33 on Wednesday to override Beebe's veto, a day after the Senate voted to do the same.
The votes come less than a week after the Legislature overrode a veto of a separate bill banning most abortions starting in the 20th week of pregnancy. That bill took effect immediately after the final override vote, whereas the 12-week ban won't take effect until this summer.
Abortion rights proponents have said they'll sue to block the 12-week ban from taking effect. Beebe warned lawmakers that both measures would end up wasting taxpayers' money with the state defending them in court, where, he said, they are likely to fail.
The measures' supporters, who expected court challenges, were undaunted.
"Not the governor, nor anyone else other than the courts, can determine if something is constitutional or unconstitutional," Rep. Bruce Westerman, a Republican from Hot Springs, said in urging his colleagues to override Beebe.
Bill sponsor Sen. Jason Rapert, a Republican from Conway, watched the vote from the House gallery and said a number of law firms have offered to help the state defend the laws in court, if it comes to that.
"I'm just grateful that this body has continued to stand up for the bills that have passed. The eyes of the entire nation were on the Arkansas House of Representatives today," he said.
Beebe rejected both measures for the same reasons, saying they are unconstitutional and that they contradict the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling that legalized abortion until a fetus could viably survive outside the womb. A fetus is generally considered viable at 22 to 24 weeks.
"The Arkansas Legislature has once again disregarded women's health care and passed the most extreme anti-women's health bill in the country," said Jill June, the CEO of Planned Parenthood of the Heartland. "With this bill, the Arkansas Legislature will force many women to seek unsafe care."
The 12-week ban would prohibit abortions from the point when a fetus' heartbeat can typically be detected using an abdominal ultrasound. It includes exemptions for rape, incest, the life of the mother and highly lethal fetal disorders. The 20-week prohibition, which is based on the disputed claim that a fetus can feel pain by the 20th week and therefore deserves protection from abortion, includes all of the same exemptions except for fetal disorders.
Six Democrats joined with Republicans in voting to override the veto of the 12-week ban. Last week, only two Democrats voted to override the veto of the 20-week ban.
"I think a lot of people felt some pressure after the last vote," said House Minority Leader Greg Leding, a Democrat from Fayetteville.
The measure is among several abortion restrictions lawmakers have backed since Republicans won control of the House and Senate in the November election. Republicans hold 21 of the 35 Senate seats, and 51 of the 100 seats in the House. It takes a simple majority in both chambers to override.
Beebe has signed into law one of those measures, a prohibition on most abortion coverage by insurers participating in the exchange created under the health care law.
Rep. Ann Clemmer, a Republican of Benton serving her third term in the House, asked her colleagues to support the override attempt, saying her votes on anti-abortion bills this year were the first time she could fully express her view on the issue at the Capitol. When Democrats held control, such bills never made it this far.
"If I say that I'm pro-life, at some point I have to do something about what I say I believe," said Clemmer, the bill's sponsor in the House.
Unlike the 20-week ban, which took effect immediately, the 12-week restriction won't take effect until 90 days after the House and Senate adjourn. Lawmakers aren't expected to wrap up this year's session until later this month or April.
In vetoing both measures, Beebe has cited the costs to the state if it has to defend either ban in court. The American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas has vowed to sue if the state enacts the 12-week ban and said it is considering legal action over the 20-week restriction as well.
"I think today, for whatever reason, the Arkansas House turned its back on the women of Arkansas and said, we don't think you're capable of making your own decisions," said Rita Sklar, ACLU of Arkansas' executive director. Sklar said the group planned to file suit in federal court in the next couple weeks.
Beebe noted that the state paid nearly $148,000 to attorneys for plaintiffs who successfully challenged a 1997 late-term abortion ban.
The original version of Rapert's bill would have banned abortions as early as six weeks into a pregnancy, but he changed the measure after facing resistance from some lawmakers worried that it would require the use of a vaginal probe.
Women who have abortions would not face prosecution under Rapert's bill, but doctors who perform abortions in violation of the 12-week ban could have their medical licenses revoked.
Lawmakers in the Republican-dominated Legislature defied Gov. Mike Beebe, overriding the Democrat's veto. The House voted 56-33 on Wednesday to override Beebe's veto, a day after the Senate voted to do the same.
The votes come less than a week after the Legislature overrode a veto of a separate bill banning most abortions starting in the 20th week of pregnancy. That bill took effect immediately after the final override vote, whereas the 12-week ban won't take effect until this summer.
Abortion rights proponents have said they'll sue to block the 12-week ban from taking effect. Beebe warned lawmakers that both measures would end up wasting taxpayers' money with the state defending them in court, where, he said, they are likely to fail.
The measures' supporters, who expected court challenges, were undaunted.
"Not the governor, nor anyone else other than the courts, can determine if something is constitutional or unconstitutional," Rep. Bruce Westerman, a Republican from Hot Springs, said in urging his colleagues to override Beebe.
Bill sponsor Sen. Jason Rapert, a Republican from Conway, watched the vote from the House gallery and said a number of law firms have offered to help the state defend the laws in court, if it comes to that.
"I'm just grateful that this body has continued to stand up for the bills that have passed. The eyes of the entire nation were on the Arkansas House of Representatives today," he said.
Beebe rejected both measures for the same reasons, saying they are unconstitutional and that they contradict the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling that legalized abortion until a fetus could viably survive outside the womb. A fetus is generally considered viable at 22 to 24 weeks.
"The Arkansas Legislature has once again disregarded women's health care and passed the most extreme anti-women's health bill in the country," said Jill June, the CEO of Planned Parenthood of the Heartland. "With this bill, the Arkansas Legislature will force many women to seek unsafe care."
The 12-week ban would prohibit abortions from the point when a fetus' heartbeat can typically be detected using an abdominal ultrasound. It includes exemptions for rape, incest, the life of the mother and highly lethal fetal disorders. The 20-week prohibition, which is based on the disputed claim that a fetus can feel pain by the 20th week and therefore deserves protection from abortion, includes all of the same exemptions except for fetal disorders.
Six Democrats joined with Republicans in voting to override the veto of the 12-week ban. Last week, only two Democrats voted to override the veto of the 20-week ban.
"I think a lot of people felt some pressure after the last vote," said House Minority Leader Greg Leding, a Democrat from Fayetteville.
The measure is among several abortion restrictions lawmakers have backed since Republicans won control of the House and Senate in the November election. Republicans hold 21 of the 35 Senate seats, and 51 of the 100 seats in the House. It takes a simple majority in both chambers to override.
Beebe has signed into law one of those measures, a prohibition on most abortion coverage by insurers participating in the exchange created under the health care law.
Rep. Ann Clemmer, a Republican of Benton serving her third term in the House, asked her colleagues to support the override attempt, saying her votes on anti-abortion bills this year were the first time she could fully express her view on the issue at the Capitol. When Democrats held control, such bills never made it this far.
"If I say that I'm pro-life, at some point I have to do something about what I say I believe," said Clemmer, the bill's sponsor in the House.
Unlike the 20-week ban, which took effect immediately, the 12-week restriction won't take effect until 90 days after the House and Senate adjourn. Lawmakers aren't expected to wrap up this year's session until later this month or April.
In vetoing both measures, Beebe has cited the costs to the state if it has to defend either ban in court. The American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas has vowed to sue if the state enacts the 12-week ban and said it is considering legal action over the 20-week restriction as well.
"I think today, for whatever reason, the Arkansas House turned its back on the women of Arkansas and said, we don't think you're capable of making your own decisions," said Rita Sklar, ACLU of Arkansas' executive director. Sklar said the group planned to file suit in federal court in the next couple weeks.
Beebe noted that the state paid nearly $148,000 to attorneys for plaintiffs who successfully challenged a 1997 late-term abortion ban.
The original version of Rapert's bill would have banned abortions as early as six weeks into a pregnancy, but he changed the measure after facing resistance from some lawmakers worried that it would require the use of a vaginal probe.
Women who have abortions would not face prosecution under Rapert's bill, but doctors who perform abortions in violation of the 12-week ban could have their medical licenses revoked.
What else would one expect from Arkansas? Certainly not individual choice. Government must think for each and every one.
@contraryjim Yeah. God forbid anybody would do anything to help stop the slaughter of 1.7 million babies a year.
And since is MURDER an individual choice?
@Nuclearian @contraryjim I think you need to discuss upping your medication dosage the next time you speak with your therapist.Â
@Susabelle @Nuclearian @contraryjim In Liberal colleges, that means low grade, AND uneducated.
@Nuclearian @Susabelle @contraryjim Got one thanks. Summa Cum Laude as a matter of fact.
@Susabelle @Nuclearian @contraryjim Â
I think you need to get an education.
Now watch the teen mother numbers soar in this state, they are already pretty high.Â
@Susabelle I would rather have a record of INCREASING lives, instead of MURDERING them.
I would argue that Arkansas does not have the most restrictive abortion laws. Mississippi is down to 1 abortion clinic for the entire state. Again, 1 clinic for all of Mississippi. And the government is in the process of revoking their license. Â
In the next few months, Mississippi could very well have a complete ban on abortion statewide. Â
News agencies like the AP have completely missed this. And the law that Republicans passed in Mississippi to make this happen are going to be used in other conservative-religious states controlled by Republicans to create a de facto ban on abortion.Â
@lakeview Thanks for keeping people up to date.
LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!Â
By Michael Savage not Fox.
You should buy his book, you might learn something about yourself. LOL
Michael Savage is about as unbiased as Fox News, so it's no surprise that he takes that position.
I'd call his position on this a mental disorder - it's based in the inability to let anyone else have thier own beliefs and thoughts, with a distorted sense of self-importance and a clinging to a false reality where only one set of views are valid.
It's the same disorder than made Romney, Rove and so many others 'know' they would beat Obama.
@FormerMarineSgtYou sound like a Liberal talking out the side of your mouth.
I am sure the politicians in Arkansas are very proud of their religious motivated amendment to the abortion laws. I wonder how happy the people are with it? Again and again the government is sticking it's nose into our house and our bedroom time and time again. When are the religious zealots going to leave others to their ways and beliefs? I don't see any of them taking a bunch of unwanted kids in to raise AT THEIR EXPENSE. No, they just snipe and holler and blow up abortion clinics and generally raise hell with the lives of others. Â
@LongBeachBum Why is it religious? Maybe its because they REALISTICALLY know that abortion IS murder.
So, again this issue will go back to the Supreme Court, this time I have a feeling that Arkansas will lose.
To me this issue is very very simple. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. The end.
This is a personal issue and does not nor should it involve my neighbor, boss, guy who live in another town, or anyone else other than those directly involved.
Oh and no, the fetus has no say in th matte pr since it is not yet a human. No, at conception a fertilized egg is not a human.
@DeadRabitz Of course they will lose. The Constitution is DEAD in this country. The Liberal fascists would have it no other way.
Fetus has no say? If that FETUS has no say, then it means it is not a life. IF it isnt a life, then neither are YOU, because you are just a GROWN fetus. And if murdering a FETUS is okay, then murdering ANYBODY is okay.
American, when it pertains to Abortion is NO BETTER than Nazi Germany. Nazi's made Jews "less than human" in order to validate their persecution and murder of them. We are doing the same here by calling our babies ,,,, "Fetus's".
@Nuclearian @DeadRabitz First of all, no a fetus isn't human. It's a a fetus, it's in a stage that has yet to grow into a human. Similarly, a catapiller is not a butterfly.
As I said before and even posted a link with all the different state laws, this is left up to the states and is different in every state.
Secondly...liberal fascism? I think you really need to look up what liberals are and what fascists are. You seem not to know.
Thirdly, your logic is horrible. This leads me to the fourth item, obviously you are following your flawed logic and your serious lack off knowledge on biology and history. Yes, hitler did cultivate a group that viewed the Jews as sub human in a completely different way that a fetus simply is sub human.
A baby is something that hs been born or at least has the ability to survive outside the womb. A 8 week old fetus does not, many would argue that a 12-20 week fetus does not either, that is why most limit abortion to 24 weeks.
@Nuclearian @DeadRabitz @LocalLady No, it's not.  Is a fertilized chicken egg a chicken?  No, it's still an egg.  Same thing with humans.  First its and egg, then it's fertilized and becomes if all is well grows into a embryo, then a zygote.  It isn't a fetus until the 10th week of pregnancy.  At the 24th week of pregnancy the fetus has just a 50% survival chance.  This is one reason that most states do not allow for abortion past the 24th week.  At this point the fetus has grown sufficiently and developed to a point were most are uncomfortable with calling anything less than human.  (Arizona is different but they use a different method for calculating the time).
You can rant all you like, it doesn't change the stages of development. Â Sorry but your morals just don't mesh, with reality.
Don't get me wrong, here. Â I am simply telling you the biological facts. Â The morality is something else and so is the law. Â Â
@DeadRabitz @Nuclearian @LocalLady Â
Still a baby. Biologically and all.
@Nuclearian @DeadRabitz @LocalLady Biologicaly, you are wrong. There are no two ways about this. You are simply wrong.
A child has the possibility of developing into many things, farmers, doctors, scientists, right? Well they also have the possibility of developing into criminals, drug addicts, murderers, rapists and politicians. So under your theory, how should we treat them? You said if it could develop into a baby then it is a baby, so thusly if a child could develop into a murder then they must be a murderer? At least this is YOUR logic.
You are adding your religious and moral opinions to biology and in this case they do not mesh.
@DeadRabitz @Nuclearian @LocalLady If it COULD have developed into a baby, it IS a baby.
@Nuclearian @DeadRabitz @LocalLady Having been in the medical field for many many years, yes I have seen a fetus NOT form into a baby. Apparently you haven't heard of a miscarriage.
It's still biology, there are still stages of development. A fetus is not a human, it simply hasn't developed into one yet. Can a fetus develop into a human, yes. Will it, maybe, under the right conditions. Under the wrong conditions it may fail to develop.
@DeadRabitz @Nuclearian @LocalLady Once again. wrong. Havent seen a fetus yet that didnt form into a baby. SO, its a baby.
Just not a baby to your "newly educated" college people who read from the REVISED biology book.
@Nuclearian @LocalLady actually it's you that needs to learn something. It's called biology. There are stages of development.
You keep adding your religious and moral views to biology and it simply doesn't mesh. A fetrtilized egg isn't a fetus, it's a zygot. It hasn't developed into. A fetus yet. See stages of development. A toddler is significantly more developed than a fetus.
Sorry it's you that needs to learn.
@LocalLady @Nuclearian If you cant realize that a FETUS is a HUMAN BEING, when there are LIVE children walking around you, then YOU are in serious need of LEARNING SOMETHING.
@Nuclearian perhaps you should have read that link I posted. Every state is different.
Secondly, my children are no longer fetuses, they have progressed beyond that state and are now humans...miniature, stubborn, humans . There are profound biological differences between these two stages in development.
@Nuclearian
If a man "brutalizes" a woman who is at 12 weeks and that woman doess not lose the fetus, in most states the only assault would be against the woman in question.
Perhaps you should read up - this link was posted earlier, and it shows a state by state listing of when a fetus is consideered a "victim" under the law for assault, DUI, manslaughter, murder., vehicular homocide, and the like.
Even in the states that DO give the fetus legal standing, they CLEARLY deliniate between a voluntary abortion & other means of injury & death.
Read up - maybe, just maybe, you might learn something.
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx
@DeadRabitz @Nuclearian Then you would agree with me that if a man brutalizes a woman carrying a "less than 12 week old "Fetus"" should only be charged with assault against the woman CARRYING THE FETUS only?
And I would if you have children. Look at that child right now, and tell me that it is just a mass of flesh. If it isnt, then your argument is mute.
@DeadRabitz If your claim that a fertilized egg or fetus is not human,how can you explain that a person can be charged with murder if one gets killed by shooting,car accident ?Â
@Maynard G Krebbs @DeadRabitz Car accidents, no they don't get charged because it was an accident.
I the cases of murder, it really depends on the state. Every state defines this a bit differently. Some states don't have any laws so thusly it would be difficult to charge someone with murder in the death of a fetus, while others have significant laws.
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx
Either way, abortion is still a personal issue and should not be subject to the beliefs of uninvolved parties.
@Maynard G Krebbs @DeadRabitz Not to mention that, while we could debate whether a fertilized egg is or isn't a person, the law states that abortions after 12 weeks are illegal, not all abortions. So at 12 weeks, when there is a heartbeat and brain activity, that still isn't a person but just part of the mother? I think that's false. A mother has a right to her body, same as any person, male or female, but that right ends where the baby's right to its life begins. If a baby with a heartbeat and brain activity in the womb doesn't have a right to life, then why do we charge a mother killing her newborn baby with murder? The only difference is location; either life is just as valid.
@DeadRabitz @dg54321 @Maynard G Krebbs I guess we'll have to disagree about when the cutoff should be. I do agree that sex ed and birth control is the answer....but disagree that it should be all funded with tax dollars. What happened to personal responsibility in this country? Â
Women are supposed to be equals as responsible grown adults, so they should be paying for their own birth control....nobody pays for my health needs as a male without children.....but that's another topic for another day I guess.
@dg54321 @Maynard G Krebbs @DeadRabitz That is Arkansas state law, these laws change from state to state. My opinion is that the 24 week mark seems appropriate. Development is far enough along that viability and personhood can be established. Secondly, 24 weeks seems quite long enough to make a decision. I think many of the current laws are a good balance.
What find wrong are the groups that continue to push for abortion to be completely illegal. They completely disregard their rights and think that they have the moral high ground. When it's not about moral high ground, leave that to God. Is really about individual rights.
If you don't want an abortion don't get one. If you are really anti abortion then you should be super pro birth control and planned parenthood. You should emphasize education, including real sex Ed. Look at teen pregnancy in states that teach abstinence only. You want less abortion, lessen the need for them. Lessen then numbers of people who have un intended pregnancies.
SIMPLY SHOULD NOT BE DONE AT ALL!! HOW UNGRATEFUL WE ARE TO CAST OUT A CHILD THAT HAS DONE NOTHING TO DESERVE A DEATH SENTENCE!
SOME REASONS ARE BECAUSE THE FEMALE MIGHT HAVE BEEN RAPED. ADOPT OUT KILLER, OR SHE'S TOO YOUNG, ADOPT OUT KILLER; OR THAT SHE MADE A MISTAKE...TO BAD KILLER..LIVE AND LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES...ADOPT OUT KILLERS!!
@reelin21Â
\I bet you are NOT a woman - and you are completely amoral to refer to women in every part of your post as "KILLER".
Why should a woman who has been raped be FORCED to carry to term, incurring the financial hardships of a pregnancy? For 9 months, she would have a DAILY reminder of the violence that had been visited upon her. Why do you think that is perfectly ascceptable?
@LocalLady @reelin21 NOT the childs fault.
@Nuclearian @DeadRabitz @LocalLady @reelin21 So you are willing to put the mother through a lifetime of emotional hell and possibly the child? Â
At what point in a pregnancy do you feel that the pregnancy becomes human?
@DeadRabitz @Nuclearian @LocalLady @reelin21 Yes. Painful as it is for her, it isnt the childs fault, and it shouldnt be murdered because of it.
@Nuclearian @LocalLady @reelin21 you didn't answer the question.
@reelin21 what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
@DeadRabitz @reelin21 If you say "God have mercy on your soul", and you support abortion, then perhaps YOU should go to church and learn something.
When you die, having committed abortion on earth, you will see that "aborted" baby, as it would have been if ALLOWED to live. One look, and then separation for eternity. The child is happy forever, and you are burning in torment forever.
@Nuclearian @DeadRabitz @reelin21 Not according to the law.  No one is telling you to accept it, however they are telling you to mind your own business.
Seriously, if you don't want other people involved in YOUR affairs then you shouldn't get involved in theirs.
@DeadRabitz @Nuclearian @reelin21 Â
Dont force me to accept a MURDER as NOT a murder. It is. Murderers get jail. Abortionists are murderers.
@Nuclearian @DeadRabitz @reelin21 I support people's rights. There is a separation between church and state for a reason. If you don't want an abortion then don't have one. It's that simple.
ha ha ha...I love that movie!
@reelin21 I really have no idea what you just said. Could you try rephrasing that in the form of coherent English?
@KieferSkunk:
Let me translate for you. ALL women are "killers", and no matter what the circumstances may have been for conception (including being rapoed) woman are supposed to carry to term, deliver and then adopt out the baby.
@reelin21 Posting in all-caps like that certainly doesn't make you seem completely insane.
The #1 killer of Black people in America is not Whites, but abortion.
Glad this State is taking a stand.
Thank God you Liberal on this site don't live in Arkansas.
LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!Â
@Tacobender50Â "liberalism is a mental disorder"Â Â
I read that now in all the Fox News comments sections. It's the new and improved talking point for people not smart enough to form coherent arguments.Â
@lakeview @Tacobender50 Nah. A "teaching point" for retarded liberals.
@Tacobender50 "Thank God you Liberal on this site don't live in Arkansas."
We've found something we can agree on.