Ban on gay change therapy faces first legal test
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - A California law prohibiting mental health providers from counseling gay minors on how to become straight faces its first legal test Friday, when lawyers for counselors endorsing "reparative therapy" and parents who claim their sons have benefited from it, plan to ask a judge to block the first-of-its-kind measure.
U.S. District Judge Kimberly Mueller will hear arguments on whether she should grant an injunction that would prevent the law, which was passed by the California Legislature and signed by Gov. Jerry Brown as SB1172 in October, from taking effect on Jan. 1.
The temporary delay would allow underage clients to continue receiving the therapy while its supporters seek to overturn the law on grounds that it violates their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and religion.
If it's not blocked, the therapists and families "will be immediately and irreparably harmed by being forced to discontinue ongoing therapy in violation of their constitutional rights, by being denied the ability to direct the upbringing of their children, and by being compelled to violate their ethical obligations in order to obey the law," lawyers from Liberty Counsel, a Christian legal group, wrote in their petition.
The law Brown signed states that psychologists, social workers, family counselors and psychiatrists who use "sexual orientation change efforts" on clients under 18 would be engaging in unprofessional conduct and subject to discipline by their respective state licensing boards.
Lawyers for the state argue the ban is appropriate because it seeks to protect young people from a practice that has been rejected by mainstream mental health associations that regard homosexuality as a healthy part of the human experience and say that efforts to change an individual's sexual orientation can be harmful, particularly to children.
The outlawed therapy "can and has caused great psychological pain in young people who are already struggling with their sexuality and the stigma of being gay," Attorney General Kamala Harris wrote in asking the judge to deny the requested delay. "An injunction would expose some of society's most vulnerable members to treatment that the state and every major mental health organization in the country have condemned as an outmoded, ineffective, and potentially dangerous relic from an era when homosexuality was pathologized and criminalized."
Mueller is not expected to make a ruling at the hearing, but to issue a written decision at a later date.
The proceedings will be unusual, in part, because the judge granted Liberty Counsel's request to refer to the four parents and two teenage boys participating in the case by pseudonyms in both open court and legal documents.
Along with the petition to keep the law from taking effect, Mueller is scheduled to hear arguments on whether lawyers from the gay rights group Equality California should be allowed to join the attorney general in defending the law.
U.S. District Judge Kimberly Mueller will hear arguments on whether she should grant an injunction that would prevent the law, which was passed by the California Legislature and signed by Gov. Jerry Brown as SB1172 in October, from taking effect on Jan. 1.
The temporary delay would allow underage clients to continue receiving the therapy while its supporters seek to overturn the law on grounds that it violates their First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and religion.
If it's not blocked, the therapists and families "will be immediately and irreparably harmed by being forced to discontinue ongoing therapy in violation of their constitutional rights, by being denied the ability to direct the upbringing of their children, and by being compelled to violate their ethical obligations in order to obey the law," lawyers from Liberty Counsel, a Christian legal group, wrote in their petition.
The law Brown signed states that psychologists, social workers, family counselors and psychiatrists who use "sexual orientation change efforts" on clients under 18 would be engaging in unprofessional conduct and subject to discipline by their respective state licensing boards.
Lawyers for the state argue the ban is appropriate because it seeks to protect young people from a practice that has been rejected by mainstream mental health associations that regard homosexuality as a healthy part of the human experience and say that efforts to change an individual's sexual orientation can be harmful, particularly to children.
The outlawed therapy "can and has caused great psychological pain in young people who are already struggling with their sexuality and the stigma of being gay," Attorney General Kamala Harris wrote in asking the judge to deny the requested delay. "An injunction would expose some of society's most vulnerable members to treatment that the state and every major mental health organization in the country have condemned as an outmoded, ineffective, and potentially dangerous relic from an era when homosexuality was pathologized and criminalized."
Mueller is not expected to make a ruling at the hearing, but to issue a written decision at a later date.
The proceedings will be unusual, in part, because the judge granted Liberty Counsel's request to refer to the four parents and two teenage boys participating in the case by pseudonyms in both open court and legal documents.
Along with the petition to keep the law from taking effect, Mueller is scheduled to hear arguments on whether lawyers from the gay rights group Equality California should be allowed to join the attorney general in defending the law.
no different than any other quack medicine, to some it seems like a good idea and works, to the rest of us we see it for the lies and b.s. that it truely is. This stuff is not based in science only in the reilgous mindset. Religion does not equal Science!
 @JFR Really?  Social studies isn't science.  Proof is that it has no disprovable (or provable) hypothesis.  The science on homosexuality suggests it is overwhelmingly environmental, including possibly pollution but also what we used to call "nurture".  Which is what the therapies try to change.
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I have close homosexual friends. Â I don't have any opinion on their choices or lifestyle. Â But you are blurring the line between real science and the cultural conclusion and law that current political correctness has forced upon civilization. Â (Put another way, homosexuality could indeed possibly be "fixed" by therapy and yet that be so unacceptable to our society that the idea of it is considered heretical.) Â That doesn't make it science. Â It just intimidates real science into silence.
 @TCat  @JFR "Put another way, homosexuality could indeed possibly be "fixed" by therapy"
It could also be "fixed" by execution - would that meet your standards?
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Being gay is NOT being "broken"...
@OrcasThunder @TCat I believe you misunderstood my comments, I am in support of the ban as I know that being gay is not a "choice" or some kind of mental disorder, that in fact it exists all throughout nature in nearly every species of animal in the world. There's no "fixing" what isn't broke in the first place.
@TCat I wholeheartedly disagree that homosexuality suggests that it is possibly related to pollution. Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of man. In ancient Rome, homosexuality was accepted. What sort of pollution did they have back then?
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Nor do I think it has much to do with nurture. Parenting styles have changed drastically over the years and not every parent has the same sort of parenting skills. There are too many variables to claim that nurturing has anything to do with whether or not a child will grow up to be gay.
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Now if you ask me, I think that homosexuality has to do with nature. There are many mysteries of the brain and human body that have yet to be explained. Why is it that I can be attracted to one man but not attracted to another? Everyone has different tastes in what they like and don't like. That is our chemistry. Our body tells us who we are attracted to. Can I be "fixed" into not being attracted to dark hair and blue eyes and instead be attracted to blonde hair? Who knows. But why would I even want to? That is me and that's what I like.
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People need to quit trying to "fix" homosexuality. There is nothing wrong with it, in my opinion. It is who they are. If society stops the severe judgement over homosexuality then maybe, just maybe, kids can grow up to be themselves without fear. They can live productive lives without thinking there is something wrong with them and that they need to be "fixed." Those parents who believe they are "fixing" their children are doing more harm than good.
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat LOL, I think of the gold tooth necklace type that has to stuff the hair back inside their shirt.....LOL sweater at the beach type! LOL
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 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat I'm almost afraid to ask what you thought we were talking about, but curiosity is winning the battle.
Soooo..... WHAT were you thinking we were talking about?? Or is it just best we let that one go?Â
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Oh, and you have a reply in the Ferndale vet article that apparently went to me instead. I responded before I realized it may have been for you, feel free to go in and correct me or add your own input if you'd like. :^DÂ
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat Oh THAT's what you meant.......okay........we're good now.
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat Well, if they ALL had hairy chests, it wouldn't be a preference, now, would it?
And no, the sweater look is not exactly what I had in mind, nor is a hairy neck or back. Just a nice, macho, 80s Tom Selleck amount, thank you very much.Â
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No, it isn't a requirement, of course. One with a big heart, who treats people well and can make me laugh will always trump physical characteristics. The chest hair is just a bonus. A very, very nice bonus, but bonus all the same.Â
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat Were you even aware that SOME men do not have hairy chests? I know that may come as a shock, so sit down and practice your breathing exercises. That's it, now, it's really true.....I'm not saying bald, they just dont look like their wearing a sweater to the beach................
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat No worries about mixing up no and know. We new what you meant; it's not a knew error online.Â
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat Now that you mention it, I see some great limerick potential with Susabelle and jezebel!Â
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat And how exactly would you not notice??? Make the poor guy keep his shirt on at all times?? Â
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat I'm not saying never........but ewww, gross, I dont want to know about it!
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat OK, if you really feel in your unbiased, logical, educated heart of hearts that there is something deeply disturbing going on in here I promise I will seek professional help immediately.Â
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All you have to do is explain to me what exactly is wrong with breasts connecting with hairy chests and why the never the 'twain should meet.Â
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat even if I cant get no and know correct in a sentence.
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat Now you are just being silly! There is no way you can compare the two! To think that you are so disturbed that you could link hairy chests and breasts just makes me ill. Not the same thing....it just isnt and you should no better!
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat You did notice that Jezebel rhymes with Susabelle..........coincidence? I think not!
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat OK, I do hope that if you have a daughter, you had/have enrolled her in martial arts classes very early on in life...Â
But now that you mention it, it would be fun to get the calls and/or postcards from your veterinarian reminding you that Jezebel is due for her annual checkup.Â
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat OK, you really, really need to seek professional help! Hairy chests cannot go out, ever, under any circumstances.
Don't believe me? Just ask any heterosexual adult male if he thinks breasts on women have gone out of style, and if he thinks women should start having theirs removed for purely cosmetic reasons.
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No, really, go ahead and ask around, I'll wait!Â
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat I've always loved that name, Jezebel, it has such a nice ring to it, dont you think?
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat Oh, no no no..........I think you too must talk to someone my friend.....hairy chests are so Yesterday! get with the program, that went out with gold tooth necklaces and polyester suits!
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat I hope for the sake of your soul and where you'll spend eternity that you yourself don't have green eyes.
I'm fairly certain that homoirisality is an abomination and a mortal sin, and if you continue on this amoral path, flaunting all that is good and holy, you will face the fires of he(ck), you.... you.... you JEZEBEL, you!Â
 @Tattooed_Angel  @MargeGunderson OK, this one is 4/5 of a LIKE, or 3/4 of a LIKE, depending upon if you count the arms and back as one element or two.Â
 @Susabelle  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat Can we offer 2/3 LIKEs, instead of this all or nothing arrangement? I don't know what would be more a travesty, agreeing that dark brown eyes aren't the most irresistible, or not endorsing the nice shoulders and arms.Â
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And your computer must have accidentally cut out the part about hairy chests, because I don't see it here. Or maybe you just considered it too obvious to bother mentioning?Â
 @Tattooed_Angel  @MargeGunderson I think Marge is right. We need to get you into counseling immediately!! LOL! Olive skin OMG......no no no.... you need help girl........fast!
@MargeGunderson @Susabelle Well now, if you want to get specific... Dark hair, light eyes, olive skin, nice defined arms and back, and a funny personality does it for me every time!  :)
 @MargeGunderson  @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat No, you are both wrong, green eyes and nice shoulders and arms.......
 @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat No, no, no, it's men with dark brown eyes that are most attractive! Really, you need some therapy to fix your wiring; surely that must be curable...  :^D
 @Tattooed_Angel  @TCat You tell em'!!!
 @JFR "Religion does not equal Science!"
LOL you just made science your own religion.
Brothers and sisters, join the new science religion. The Church of Evolutionator welcomes all with love and respect. Put aside those who befoul the earth with hatred and exclusion. Embrace that which has been refined overe millions of years. Evolutionator will show the truth and the way. All that is old and tiresome has passed away. The Church of Evolutionator takes donations from believers and non-believers.