Fiscal cliff: Private bargaining, public wrangling

WASHINGTON (AP) - In a test of divided government, the White House and congressional Republicans bargained in secret and sparred in public Tuesday over a deal to prevent year-end tax increases for middle class millions and spending cuts to the military as well as other federal programs.
Officials disclosed that President Barack Obama and House Speaker John Boehner had exchanged at least partial proposals in the past two days.
Details were sparse and evidence of significant progress scarcer still, although officials said the president had offered to reduce his initial demand for $1.6 trillion in higher tax revenue over a decade to $1.4 trillion. There was no indication he was relenting on his insistence - strongly opposed by most Republicans - that tax rates rise at upper incomes.
Boehner sounded unimpressed in remarks on the House floor at midday.
"The longer the White House slow-walks this process, the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff," he said, declaring that Obama had yet to identify specific cuts to government benefit programs that the president would support as part of an agreement that also would raise federal tax revenue.
In rebuttal, the White House swiftly detailed numerous proposals Obama has made to cut spending, including recommendations to cull $340 million from Medicare over a decade and an additional $250 billion from other government benefit programs.
The House Democratic leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, challenged Boehner to allow a vote on the president's proposal to extend most expiring tax cuts while letting them lapse at higher incomes.
She predicted it would gain "overwhelming approval," even in the GOP-controlled House.
Boehner's office took the step - unusual in secretive talks - of announcing that Republicans "sent the White House a counter-offer that would achieve tax and entitlement reform to solve our looming debt crisis and create more American jobs."
Both sides say they want a deal to prevent damage to the economy, but that stated commitment has been accompanied by a fierce battle to gain the political high ground in negotiations - and the occasional comment that one side or the other would be willing to let the deadline pass without a deal unless it got acceptable terms.
Republicans acknowledge that Obama has an advantage in one respect, citing his re-election last month after a race in which he made higher taxes on the wealthy a centerpiece of his campaign.
At the same time, Republicans hold powerful leverage of their own, the certainty that by spring the president will be forced to ask Congress to raise the government's borrowing authority. It was just such a threat that previously allowed them to extract $1 trillion in spending cuts from the White House and Democratic lawmakers, a situation that Obama has vowed he won't let happen again.
In his noontime remarks on the House floor, Boehner said, "Let's be honest. We're broke. The plan we offered is consistent with the president's call for a balanced approach."
"We're still waiting for the White House" to do the same," added the Ohio Republican.
GOP senators across the Capitol soon echoed his remarks.
"You have to ask the question, Is the president obsessed with raising taxes?" said Sen. John Thune of South Dakota, a member of the GOP leadership.
Referring to the president's occasional outside-the-Beltway trips to build public support for his position, Thune said Obama was "doing a victory lap" after the campaign.
Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said GOP lawmakers are determined to overhaul benefit programs so they can "meet the demographics of the country." He recently said Republicans want to curtail annual cost-of-living benefits for Social Security and other government benefits, as well as raise the age of eligibility for Medicare from 65 to 67 beginning at some point in the future.
"The president seems to think that if all he talks about are taxes, and that's all reporters write about, somehow the rest of us will magically forget that government spending is completely out of control and that he himself has been insisting on balance," McConnell said on the Senate floor.
He highlighted several government programs as examples of what he said was wasteful spending.
"A few weeks ago, Senator (Tom) Coburn issued a study that showed taxpayers are funding Moroccan pottery classes, promoting shampoo and other beauty products for cats and dogs and a video game that allows them to relive prom night," McConnell said. "Get this: Taxpayers also just spent $325,000 on a robotic squirrel named RoboSquirrel."
The two sides had presented rival initial offers in the cliff negotiations.
Obama's plan would raise $1.6 trillion in revenue over 10 years, in part by raising tax rates on incomes over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. He has recommended $400 billion in spending cuts over a decade.
He also is seeking extension of the Social Security payroll tax cut due to expire on Jan. 1, a continuation in long-term unemployment benefits and steps to help hard-pressed homeowners and doctors who treat Medicare patients.
The White House summary noted that Obama last year signed legislation to cut more than $1 trillion from government programs over a decade, and was proposing $600 billion in additional savings from benefit programs.
It also noted that the health care law that Obama signed into law showed savings of $100 billion. Much or all of that funding came from Medicare, even though Obama's aides insisted during his successful campaign for re-election that he had not made any cuts in that program.
Boehner's plan, in addition to calling for $800 billion in new revenue, envisions $600 billion in savings over a decade from Medicare, Medicaid and other government health programs as well as $300 billion from other benefit programs and another $300 billion from other domestic programs.
It would trim annual increases in Social Security payments to beneficiaries, and it calls for gradually raising the eligibility age for Medicare from 65 to 67, beginning in a decade.
___
Associated Press writers Jim Kuhnhenn and Donna Cassata contributed to this story.
Officials disclosed that President Barack Obama and House Speaker John Boehner had exchanged at least partial proposals in the past two days.
Details were sparse and evidence of significant progress scarcer still, although officials said the president had offered to reduce his initial demand for $1.6 trillion in higher tax revenue over a decade to $1.4 trillion. There was no indication he was relenting on his insistence - strongly opposed by most Republicans - that tax rates rise at upper incomes.
Boehner sounded unimpressed in remarks on the House floor at midday.
"The longer the White House slow-walks this process, the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff," he said, declaring that Obama had yet to identify specific cuts to government benefit programs that the president would support as part of an agreement that also would raise federal tax revenue.
In rebuttal, the White House swiftly detailed numerous proposals Obama has made to cut spending, including recommendations to cull $340 million from Medicare over a decade and an additional $250 billion from other government benefit programs.
The House Democratic leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, challenged Boehner to allow a vote on the president's proposal to extend most expiring tax cuts while letting them lapse at higher incomes.
She predicted it would gain "overwhelming approval," even in the GOP-controlled House.
Boehner's office took the step - unusual in secretive talks - of announcing that Republicans "sent the White House a counter-offer that would achieve tax and entitlement reform to solve our looming debt crisis and create more American jobs."
Both sides say they want a deal to prevent damage to the economy, but that stated commitment has been accompanied by a fierce battle to gain the political high ground in negotiations - and the occasional comment that one side or the other would be willing to let the deadline pass without a deal unless it got acceptable terms.
Republicans acknowledge that Obama has an advantage in one respect, citing his re-election last month after a race in which he made higher taxes on the wealthy a centerpiece of his campaign.
At the same time, Republicans hold powerful leverage of their own, the certainty that by spring the president will be forced to ask Congress to raise the government's borrowing authority. It was just such a threat that previously allowed them to extract $1 trillion in spending cuts from the White House and Democratic lawmakers, a situation that Obama has vowed he won't let happen again.
In his noontime remarks on the House floor, Boehner said, "Let's be honest. We're broke. The plan we offered is consistent with the president's call for a balanced approach."
"We're still waiting for the White House" to do the same," added the Ohio Republican.
GOP senators across the Capitol soon echoed his remarks.
"You have to ask the question, Is the president obsessed with raising taxes?" said Sen. John Thune of South Dakota, a member of the GOP leadership.
Referring to the president's occasional outside-the-Beltway trips to build public support for his position, Thune said Obama was "doing a victory lap" after the campaign.
Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said GOP lawmakers are determined to overhaul benefit programs so they can "meet the demographics of the country." He recently said Republicans want to curtail annual cost-of-living benefits for Social Security and other government benefits, as well as raise the age of eligibility for Medicare from 65 to 67 beginning at some point in the future.
"The president seems to think that if all he talks about are taxes, and that's all reporters write about, somehow the rest of us will magically forget that government spending is completely out of control and that he himself has been insisting on balance," McConnell said on the Senate floor.
He highlighted several government programs as examples of what he said was wasteful spending.
"A few weeks ago, Senator (Tom) Coburn issued a study that showed taxpayers are funding Moroccan pottery classes, promoting shampoo and other beauty products for cats and dogs and a video game that allows them to relive prom night," McConnell said. "Get this: Taxpayers also just spent $325,000 on a robotic squirrel named RoboSquirrel."
The two sides had presented rival initial offers in the cliff negotiations.
Obama's plan would raise $1.6 trillion in revenue over 10 years, in part by raising tax rates on incomes over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. He has recommended $400 billion in spending cuts over a decade.
He also is seeking extension of the Social Security payroll tax cut due to expire on Jan. 1, a continuation in long-term unemployment benefits and steps to help hard-pressed homeowners and doctors who treat Medicare patients.
The White House summary noted that Obama last year signed legislation to cut more than $1 trillion from government programs over a decade, and was proposing $600 billion in additional savings from benefit programs.
It also noted that the health care law that Obama signed into law showed savings of $100 billion. Much or all of that funding came from Medicare, even though Obama's aides insisted during his successful campaign for re-election that he had not made any cuts in that program.
Boehner's plan, in addition to calling for $800 billion in new revenue, envisions $600 billion in savings over a decade from Medicare, Medicaid and other government health programs as well as $300 billion from other benefit programs and another $300 billion from other domestic programs.
It would trim annual increases in Social Security payments to beneficiaries, and it calls for gradually raising the eligibility age for Medicare from 65 to 67, beginning in a decade.
___
Associated Press writers Jim Kuhnhenn and Donna Cassata contributed to this story.
The simple fix is to give the president the power of line item veto. That way its all on him. He can't blame congress or the economy or anything else.
This comment has been deleted
@the unvarnished truth As usual you still donât even know what the heck that you are even posting about plus you still appear not to have even heard of a filibuster. Try to think at least a little bit about this if you even can. What would it really normally matter if the dems âhad a veto-proof majority in the Senateâ when the POTUS is a dem? Jeez you are just continuing to be just so s*****.
@Blindman They tried that. It was determined to be unconstitutional. You will need to pass an amendment to the Constitution.
Rep. Boehner says that the administration has offered no specifics on what spending they would cut. So....what are the $800B/10 years tax deductions and loopholes that Boehner offered?
Â
It's posturing, nothing more. The talks are secret, so it's easy for Boehner to say "They aren't offering anything!"...when they actually are. But, if Boehner makes his public, maybe the President will have to do so as well.
Then we will see where each of them really are, and who they want to protect.
 @OrcasThunder I think we are close to a deal, but Boehner has to show a tough attitude to the Congressional Republicans who he is about to serve a s*&% sandwich to otherwise they might revolt on him. Just my opinion.  Â
 @lakeview Agreed. And from his expression in the photo it looks like he's been sampling the fare ahead of serving it.
Â
I like Senator Coburn but it's easy to pick a few examples to show everyone how wasteful our government is.
Â
I have a few examples too that add up to a lot more than Coburn's examples. How about 50 billion in annual "foreign aid" around the world?
Â
What about 3 billion a year to Israel? How about 2.5 billion this year to Afghanistan? And 2 billion to Pakistan.
Â
And then what about the 1.5 billion or so we give to Egypt? And the half a billion or so to Colombia?Â
Â
And those are just a few examples of the 50 billion a year we give out, our money.Â
Â
People need to wake up and understand that going after SS and Medicare is just balony. We should be cutting defense and foreign aid FIRST.Â
"A few weeks ago, Senator (Tom) Coburn issued a study that showed taxpayers are funding Moroccan pottery classes, promoting shampoo and other beauty products for cats and dogs and a video game that allows them to relive prom night," McConnell said. "Get this: Taxpayers also just spent $325,000 on a robotic squirrel named RoboSquirrel."
Â
All I can say is, how can I get in on the Moraccan pottery classes and the video game that allows me to relive prom night? Â And what is so wrong about shampoo and beauty products for cats and dogs - they're people too, aren't they? Â And RoboSquirrel - wow - I'm so glad my tax dollars are going to something worthwhile - I was beginning to worry that they went to something frivolous :)
 @Indispensableone They should have released the RoboSquirrel for the holidays. It'd be the hottest gift of the year!
 @Necrobio Ha Ha - I agree - I mean if we, the taxpayers, are paying for it, shouldn't we get to see it??
Blah, Blah, Blah, same old, same old. All I want to know is, where is your line in the sand? Americans always talk tough about kickin butt but never get off the couch. Clinton gave you NAFTA and Repealed Glass Steagal and created the OTC derivatives scam. Bush gave us the American Dream Down Payment Act, tax cuts for the rich, started the war on Freedom, attacked two countries, turns the US into a torture country. Obama comes along and deepens the war on Freedom, keeps the bush wars going, opens up a new detention center for torture, bails out numerous mismanaged corporations, continues the obvious disregard for our Constitution, lays your SSI and medicare on the table for negotiations and sure as I sit here will lose them to privatization.
Â
I just want to know how far you wimps are willing to back up before you ever put a stop to it. I've watched our jobs be outsourced for decades, watched as your benefits were taken away from your families, watched your wages go down while prices climb, watched this country fall into disrepair, poverty climb, a smaller percentage of people working since 1929, watched your elected corrupt politicians lie to you and get off scot free from the damage done, lie to you while murdering innocent families in the wars on "terror" and "Drugs". etc.etc.
Â
If they lie and murder innocent people from other countries, what makes you think they are above lying and murdering our own kids in these phony wars that were always just to keep the military industrial complex happy and take your freedom?
Â
Where is your line in the sand? Just what exactly will it take for the average US citizen to stand up and protect our constitution, country, and families? Thats what I want to know.
 @T_BONE_WALKER I would stand shoulder to shoulder with you.... musket in hand so to speak.... Can we wait till summer? I am fragile.... :D)
 @Funky-Munky lol, thanks F.M. I'd be honored.
I wish both sides and their minions would just shut up and get this done already. I am tired of both parties running to the media when the opponent doesn't agree with their incredibly myopic plans for the fiscal cliff. I would lock all these politicians in a room until they come up with a viable plan that benefits America.
Â
All they do is act like petulant children. These are our leaders - a perverted version of "Lord of the Flies."
 @Necrobio Sadly our Three Branches of Oligarchy haven't served "we the people" for a very long time... It's apparent the brunt of the economy will be placed on the middle-class and poor. There will be zero concessions provided by our cancerous Three Branches of Government pertaining to their pay, benefits and increased size. Why cut costs when you can spend beyond your budget, push Foreign Policy over our economy and fund war(s) on credit?
My how times have changed. When Bush was in office he said deficits don't matter. Now that a Democrat is in office the world is coming to an end. I would suggest the budget deficit has been a problem for decades. Mr Boehner would have you believe the Republicans are willing to give up the farm but that couldn't be further from the truth.
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not traitor, he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared." - Cicero, 42 B.C.
Â
America's economy is collapsing as she has jettisoned her strength through independence and has bound herself to a failed global economy. Our government leaders no longer adhere to a concept of obeying the spirit of the law, let alone the letter of the law. Most of them have no concept of right and wrong. No concept of what is and is not appropriate. And perhaps no conscience. These politicians have no respect for the people who elected them. No respect for the American people. No respect for their office. No respect for the Constitution of the United States. No respect for what it means to be entrusted by the people of this nation to serve at the highest capacity. Their only goal is to consolidate more money and power into the hands of the few in order to control and manipulate the many.(author unknown)
"Lets be honest, we're broke". WE, the voters; the ones who put you in office are broke. We are broke because you spent our money on your stupid pet projects, to satisfy the lobbyists who pad your pockets. YOU are not broke, with your excessive salaries and free healthcare.
Dont sit there and accuse the president of being slow and obstructing progress; its every damn one of you crooks that is responsible for this mess. I wish we would try each of you for treason and imprison you.
 @northwestsurfer I would suggest the latter strongly..... Way past time.....
LOL Still no talk of the largest waste of tax payers money, the military. Too many of their buddies are getting rich off of military contracts I guess to consider talks on that. The republicans have the house, if they want a new budget plan then place it on the floor for a vote. Nothing but fear holding them back.
The best bet is to just go over the so called fiscal cliff. It makes a lot of the necessary cuts automatically.
3-2-1 Minimize, rationalize and place blame elsewhere...... Yep, why face any responsibility when you can place the blame elsewhere? Doesn't matter how many times our Three Branches of Oligarchy have sold out "we the people" and our wishes for them to put America first citizens still continue to squabble over meaningless political references. How's pushing Foreign Policy over our economy, war(s) without end and increased size with the inception of Homeland Security better for Americans? Interesting our Three Branches of Oligarchy continue to squabble over how to tax the middle-class and poor to further support their pay, benefits and increased size.
 None of these plans even come close to whats needed maybe 10% how do they plan on coming up with the other 90% of whats needed. Notice how these numbers are "over ten years" obama 160 billion in cuts and taxes for a year most of which he wants to spend on new government spending. Boehner's plan 200 billion a year in taxes and cuts most is just a fantasy but still the government is over spending by 1.3 trillion a year for as far as the eye can see. When do we see the real cuts and not can kicking?
@2times I do understand your fustration. Each side is playing chicken with not only the American people but with the finances of our country and therefor us. Think of it on a personal scope. A family deeply in debt can't just decrease spending and increase income and be debt free in a year or even two. We can cut spending but there are still the monthly expenses that have to be paid. The same hold true with the government. Not every government worker is a political figure. There are many who are as frustrated as us about this mess. They know their jobs may depend on the outcome. Boehner will not lose his job or take a pay cut. Obama's job is guaranteed for 4 more years. It is the rest of us who only have uncertainty in our futures.
It was proven in California that raising taxes on the rich doesn't work.  The rich are already putting their assets into their heirs' names to avoid inheritance taxes (which is extremely smart).  There are other things they are doing as well.  They have the money to have financial advisers to show them how.  Taxing the rich will cause a loss of 1.8 million jobs as well as not produce the tax revenue the feds are looking for.  People who make $200,000-250,000 a year aren't rich.  They are just doing better than the lower class.  They are the upper middle class.  This is SO going to blow up in Obama's face, and it's the people that pay, not him.
 @Ma_Kettle "The rich are already putting their assets into their heirs' names to avoid inheritance taxes (which is extremely smart)."
Â
With a comment like this, me thinks you do not understand our tax structure. You cannot just simply transfer assets to family members without paying gift/inheritance tax to both the state as well as the feds. Â
Â
We are not Europe, where wealth is easily transferred to the next generation.Â
 @lakeview  @Ma_Kettle With a comment like this it makes me wonder if you have a CPA degree...and if you do I am glad you are not my CPA.
Â
Under current structure (as little of it as I understand) Gifts and estates up to 5 million are exempt from federal taxes...which will revert back to 1 mil if we "go over the cliff".
 @Ma_Kettle It was proven across America that cutting taxes for the rich didn't work either...
@Ma_Kettle Please provide a dependable source for âTaxing the rich will cause a loss of 1.8 million jobsâ.
 @flyskiwindsurf  @Ma_Kettle I can only speak for myself, but if my taxes are increased, and they are not increased across the board, I will seriously contemplate closing my businesses and that would amount to about 100 jobs.
@aintno1special Tell me and then I will break it to your staff.
 @flyskiwindsurf  @aintno1special Do you want to be the first to know, or should I tell my staff first?
@aintno1special Please get back to me when you remove âcontemplateâ from that sentence.
 @flyskiwindsurf  @Ma_Kettle I hear wearing a tinfoil hat while standing on your roof during a lightening storm helps with clarity......
 @flyskiwindsurf Heck.... I ain't above wearing a tinfoil hat these days.... Kinda seems normal with all this political garbage going on... Ha! :D)
@Funky-Munky I would enthusiastically recommend that to all repubs, tbaggers, neo cons, and etc.
 @flyskiwindsurf  @Ma_Kettle They'll make up for the shortfall with layoffs or simply take their business elsewhere. Sad but true. Now the numbers are probably made up since most statistics are made up on the spot.
 @Ma_Kettle So the rich will get around the new taxes, but will also fire people because of them anyway?
@therunner @Ma_Kettle Yep.
 @Ma_Kettle Or they can simply set up home and shop in Nevada.Â
I say we cut spending based on the Republican plan and raise revenue based on the Obama plan. That will put a dent in our annual shortfall, but will still ultimately only make up half of our annual shortfall. We will still need to make changes down the road to do better, but at least it will start moving us in the right direction in a way that won't destroy our economy in the short term.
Â
I think it's ridiculous to extend the payroll tax cut. I hated the idea to begin with. We are approaching significant solvency issues in social security and they are trying to cut funding by about 30%. I know many people live in today and ignore the future, but this tax cut is borderline insanity.
 @Paddy It is a fallacy to equate tax rates with tax revenue. The two do not necessarily move in lockstep. And there are generally ways around extortionate taxes. See  James 'Hypocrite" Sinegal's
 Costco plan to pay dividends NOW  by borrowing money against future earnings. JHS figures to save millions on his taxes while blathering support for his buddy Obama who wants the Filthy Rich to pay more.
Â
Love your $4.99 chicken, James, but you are a Costco-sized hypocrite.
Bonner pointing the finger again. He's lots of help. NOT!
This comment has been deleted
 @the unvarnished truth  @DDG Which president took by far the most vacation days ever...Drum role....G.W.. Bush
FactCheck.org
Unvarnished truth my butt. You handle is a joke.
@the unvarnished truth ohhhh nooooâ¦.. Some 100 times in over 1400 days. That is less than once every other weekend and that does not include holidays, vacations, etc. Terrible terrible terrible. So whatâs boner been doing anyway over that same time period anyway? You might want to check on what a H.R. âworkâ week really does consist of.
 @flyskiwindsurf Sadly.... I believe America has already went over the Fiscal Cliff and we're in trouble economically.Â
@Funky-Munky And not necessarily in that order. I.e. it appears that it is many many many cocktails.
 @flyskiwindsurf Golf and cocktails....
You balance the budget: Play the "Budget Puzzle". Neither side is going far enough.Â
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html
This comment has been deleted
@the unvarnished truth So how many of those additional jobs are in defense and in homeland security? Or would you prefer that those be cut back?
@the unvarnished truth @Funky-Munky Then letâs shut it down and disband it. But you didnât address defense. I.e. ~4x the additional jobs as HS received.
 @flyskiwindsurf Homeland Security has proven to be worthless.... Next question.....