Could armed janitors be one school's line of defense?
TOLEDO, Ohio (AP) - A rural school district in Ohio is drawing attention with its plans to arm a handful of its non-teaching employees with handguns this year - perhaps even janitors.
Four employees in the Montpelier schools have agreed to take a weapons training course and carry their own guns inside the district's one building, which houses 1,000 students in kindergarten through 12th grade, school officials said.
"It's kind of a sign of the times," Superintendent Jamie Grime said Friday.
The Toledo Blade reported that the employees were janitors, but school officials would not confirm that to The Associated Press, saying only that they are employees who don't have direct supervision over the students in the northwest Ohio district.
The four employees who will carry guns all volunteered to take part, Grime said. The school plans to pay for them to attend a two-day training course.
"Putting a firearm in a school is a huge step," Grime said. "We're going to do it properly. These people need the proper training."
The move comes as districts and lawmakers across the nation weigh how to protect students following the school massacre in Newtown, Conn., and after the National Rifle Association called for an armed officer in every U.S. school. The gunman in Newtown used a rifle to kill 20 students and six educators.
Lawmakers in South Carolina, Oklahoma, Missouri and South Dakota are looking into legislation that would allow teachers and other school employees to have guns.
Texas Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst called Friday for state-funded, specialized firearms training for teachers and administrators. School districts would decide who would carry weapons but not be required to participate, and training would include how to react during a shooting.
In Arizona's Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe Arpaio has said he plans to post armed volunteers on school perimeters.
Residents in a Dayton, Ohio, suburb crowded into a school meeting this week to talk about whether staff members and teachers should be armed. Reaction was mixed, according to The Dayton Daily News.
"We need more good guys with guns. That's the sad reality of the situation," said Jim Rigano, a Springboro school board member.
Other states are trying clamp down on gun sales and bans on assault rifles.
In Montpelier, school officials began reviewing security plans after Newtown and decided teachers should not be armed because their first priority in an emergency should be locking doors and protecting students, Grime said. The school already has security cameras and locked doors, and requires visitors to be buzzed into the front entrance.
The proposal was not announced until just before the board voted unanimously Wednesday to arm a select group of employees after consulting with the local police chief and attorneys who reviewed Ohio's concealed carry law. The law prohibits guns in schools except in a few cases, and allows education boards to authorize someone to carry a gun inside schools.
No members of the public spoke out on the measure at the meeting, board President Larry Martin told the Blade. Grime said three people attended.
A letter was sent out to parents after the vote. Only three complained, while close to 150 called or sent emails supporting the idea in Montpelier, a remote city of about 4,000 residents along Interstate 80 near the convergence of Ohio, Michigan and Indiana.
"It's a place where people hold the Second Amendment close to their hearts," the superintendent said.
Four employees in the Montpelier schools have agreed to take a weapons training course and carry their own guns inside the district's one building, which houses 1,000 students in kindergarten through 12th grade, school officials said.
"It's kind of a sign of the times," Superintendent Jamie Grime said Friday.
The Toledo Blade reported that the employees were janitors, but school officials would not confirm that to The Associated Press, saying only that they are employees who don't have direct supervision over the students in the northwest Ohio district.
The four employees who will carry guns all volunteered to take part, Grime said. The school plans to pay for them to attend a two-day training course.
"Putting a firearm in a school is a huge step," Grime said. "We're going to do it properly. These people need the proper training."
The move comes as districts and lawmakers across the nation weigh how to protect students following the school massacre in Newtown, Conn., and after the National Rifle Association called for an armed officer in every U.S. school. The gunman in Newtown used a rifle to kill 20 students and six educators.
Lawmakers in South Carolina, Oklahoma, Missouri and South Dakota are looking into legislation that would allow teachers and other school employees to have guns.
Texas Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst called Friday for state-funded, specialized firearms training for teachers and administrators. School districts would decide who would carry weapons but not be required to participate, and training would include how to react during a shooting.
In Arizona's Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe Arpaio has said he plans to post armed volunteers on school perimeters.
Residents in a Dayton, Ohio, suburb crowded into a school meeting this week to talk about whether staff members and teachers should be armed. Reaction was mixed, according to The Dayton Daily News.
"We need more good guys with guns. That's the sad reality of the situation," said Jim Rigano, a Springboro school board member.
Other states are trying clamp down on gun sales and bans on assault rifles.
In Montpelier, school officials began reviewing security plans after Newtown and decided teachers should not be armed because their first priority in an emergency should be locking doors and protecting students, Grime said. The school already has security cameras and locked doors, and requires visitors to be buzzed into the front entrance.
The proposal was not announced until just before the board voted unanimously Wednesday to arm a select group of employees after consulting with the local police chief and attorneys who reviewed Ohio's concealed carry law. The law prohibits guns in schools except in a few cases, and allows education boards to authorize someone to carry a gun inside schools.
No members of the public spoke out on the measure at the meeting, board President Larry Martin told the Blade. Grime said three people attended.
A letter was sent out to parents after the vote. Only three complained, while close to 150 called or sent emails supporting the idea in Montpelier, a remote city of about 4,000 residents along Interstate 80 near the convergence of Ohio, Michigan and Indiana.
"It's a place where people hold the Second Amendment close to their hearts," the superintendent said.
The idea of guns in school with any adult person sucks, but I have yet to hear of any better ideas. I want my children to be safe, but I have no idea what would be the best route. I know if a shooting happen at my youngest school, my son would be killed. He can barely walk, let alone run from trouble. He has CP and that really scares me when I think of it. I am willing to do anything to keep my son safe.Â
I find it disconcerting that after 237 years of freedom the passives want to change the course of our nation. Instead of standing up and fighting what is really wrong with our country, they choose to take the path of least resistance and blame guns. Well, you're wrong. There is, and always has been, more support for personal gun ownership than there ever has been for dis-arming Americans. The problem lies with the lack of gun education, the lack of intervention for the mentally ill, and the lack of proper screening for proposed gun owners. Not everyone should own a gun, and being a gun owner, as many of you are, we all know someone we don't go shooting with. To own a gun, you need to know how and when to use one.
 @SargeMcC "You say it's the mentally ill who are the problems, not the guns...but are you willing to pay for treating mental illness?"
I've asked this question several times of those who make that claim - and not one of you have even managed to offer even a "Oh, sure...yawn..." response.
For me, I read that non-answer as an example of avoidance on the part of those whose only interest is to blame others and protect the anointed one...the gun as God.
@Orcas Thunder, having just returned to this story, I will respond. Yes, I am willing to pay more in taxes to help treat the mentally ill. I do not like to pay taxes for programs that are founded on some special interest lobby group and I believe there are far to many tax dollars wasted. So yes, I would pay more in taxes for mental health care, but I believe there are enough taxes already, we just need to redivert unnecessary spending. And in my first comment I make it clear that I do not believe everyone should have a gun, and I personally don't own an 'assault rifle'. Never had a desire for one.
 @SargeMcC  @OrcasÂ
Thank you for an answer with more than one dimension.
And I agree with most of what you wrote. I do question if there are really enough dollars currently available to work on the mental health problems of this country - the scope of the problems is far beyond what most of us can see...
 @SargeMcC "the lack of intervention for the mentally ill"
And you are willing to pay taxes to run this worthy program?
Right?
 @SargeMcC you forgot to mention the fact that people like you hate taxes, hate the government, don't give a hang about those less fortunate amongst us, particularly the mentally ill, and generally see unfettered proliferation of weapons as the only answer. Everything you've mentioned above is for the most part just a smoke screen for a group that wants all of the rights but absolutely none of the responsibility.
I would pull my children out in a heartbeat. You can have your guns - I have no problem with the 2nd Amendment. Just not around my children.
 @Hagar Until that 2nd amendment is needed to protect your children, but not to worry.........help is only 5 minutes away!Â
 @Susabelle  @Hagar "help is only 5 minutes away!"
Well, quit cutting funding for that help!
Frankly, the thought of all those armed teachers, janitors and cheerleaders milling around for that 5 minutes, looking for someone to shoot, would bother me if I had any kids in that school...
 @tufa23  @Susabelle  @Hagar "Right?"
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Riiiight!!!
 @tufa23  @OrcasThunder  @Hagar Not in general, no, but for the school staff that will be armed at work, yep.Â
 @tufa23  @Susabelle  @OrcasThunder lol Good catch!
 @Susabelle  @OrcasThunder  @Hagar OK we've settled that one. A psych eval as a condition of gun ownership. I'm assuming the NRA is on board with that too. Right?
 @OrcasThunder  @Hagar Me? I didnt cut it, I'm all for a good strong police force, but even at full strength you will have a pretty significant time delay between first shots fired and arrival of the police, it only takes seconds, yet minutes pass before police can arrive and THEN asses the situation. Look, I'm not really for any Tom, Dick and Jane walking around the school with a gun, but I am for supporting the training of staff already employed if they pass a psyc eval.
So what's next? Barbed wire perimeters, guard watchtowers, and pillboxes?
ARMED ? with what - brooms? If a person is charged with providing security, that is what it does. No such thing as part time security.
I think the Montpelier school has the best solution to the problem. It's sad that it has to be the way it is, but I think by keeping people out of the schools who have no reason to be there is a good solution. It would only take seconds for a shootout to start in one of the schools and that is going to create panic and even more kids and staff are going to wind up dead or injured.
 @Jatok I think that is a great idea for a first line of defense, however many schools are multiple buildings with multiple exits and entrances......they are set up kind of like a college campus. That makes those kinds of situations harder to control access to.
@Susabelle Well, instead of spending money on training and guns spend it on retrofitting the entrance doors. I don't think most people realize that it's not easy to overcome the reluctence to kill someone and putting guns in our schools in my opinion is a bad idea unless it's a veteran and even then some of them are short fuses.
"We need more good guys with guns." Â Oh, well then, as long as we screen everybody and make sure only the *good* guys have guns, I don't see a problem. (I hope nobody thinks that was a serious statement....). Â I understand why it would be easy to subscribe to the "arm the good guys" idea (janitors, teachers, principals, etc), but you know it's only a matter of time before one of the "good guys" has a bad day, snaps, and shoots somebody, or, a "bad guy" grabs his gun and shoots someone with it. Â Sorry, I don't want my kids going to this school.
 @magic_eye Yeah - all the effort to arm everyone, while taking no measures to reduce the numbers of people who shouldn't have guns..and do.
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Oh yeah!! What a great idea. Let's take a bunch of overworked, underpaid employees trapped in a job with little upward mobility and arm them. What could possibly go wrong??
This has bad idea written all over it. I remember when I was in school, the janitors were not exactly the brightest bunch. I think whoever came up with this idea has seen too many Steven Seagal movies.
 @The WA Mama You don't need to be a genius to be brave & willing to step up for the safety of children & fellow employees. They just have to be smart enough to *correctly* identify the situation & act appropriately (& be a good shot.)
 @katiemcc  @The WA Mama you have no idea what you are talking about. It's that simple..Â
Factual error.. the Newton shooter used handguns in his rampage.
 @Woodswalker In fact, MSN reported that the Bushmaster was recovered from the trunk of his car.
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
 @NWFreeman  @Woodswalker Yes yes.... we've clarified there was some confused reporting... The clarification was that the shooter DID use the Bushmaster to kill victims... Quit spreading misinformation
 @NWFreeman  @Woodswalker Seriously... Why are you folks so desperate to try and push attention away from this rifle? I agree it's the shooter who is at fault here, and not any particular firearm, but for heavens sake... either (a) quit lying, or (b) blindly believing those who are lying because it fits into your political dogma. It absolutely destroys your credibility.
 @Woodswalker factual error correction error... autopsies showed most of the children were killed by rounds from the Bushmaster... Quit lying or parroting someone else's lies!
@TruthinAdverts Maybe you need to do a simple google search for the real data.
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The New York Times has issued at least two corrections..to whit:
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An earlier version of this article suggested that the gunman in the Connecticut shootings sued a rifle to carry out the shootings inside the Sandy Hook Elementary School. In fact, according to Law Enforcement the guns used in the school shooting were both handguns.
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And a correction dealing with the employment of the shooters mother, Nancy Lanza.
@snoopy84 Http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/30208-nbc-admits-no-assault-rifle-used-in-newtown-shooting/
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Things keep cropping up too often...video clips from the scene, that leave me wondering if the farther out-there conspiriacy folks might have a bit of somehting.
 @TruthinAdverts  @Woodswalker http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
 @Woodswalker http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/us/lanza-used-a-popular-ar-15-style-rifle-in-newtown.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/school-shooter-adam-lanza_n_2312818.html
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school.html?pagewanted=all
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with the last link... read the correction at the bottom... and quit parroting incorrect information and lies
 @Woodswalker "Mine was straight from the NYT website."
Care to quote the words, with a link?
Mine was straight from the NYT website. Not making anything up...
 @Woodswalker You know... the irony is, I'm against banning firearms. I own some. I am however for banning morons who will say anything, parrot anything, and simply make junk up to try and stifle any dialogue on the matter.Â
@Woodswalker@TruthinAdverts Right from Google for you woods...Â
"Investigators have not said how many shots Lanza fired with the Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle after he entered the school by firing half a dozen rounds through the glass at the school entrance. Sources said that he fired approximately 150 rounds during the shooting spree.
[NB: TTAG's sources report that the killer fired 76 rounds before his Bushmaster AR experienced a "stovepipe" at which point the killer threw his gun away.]
Besides the earplugs, he was wearing all black clothes under a drab olive green utility vest with pockets filled with 30-round magazines for the Bushmaster."
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There's a many many more sources bearing out the same information. Quit making crap up!
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@Woodswalker "The primary weapon used in the attack was a "Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon," said Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance. The rifle is a Bushmaster version of a widely made AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16 rifle used by the U.S. military."
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I'm not sure what your point is to say he used a hangun instead of the AR-15.
He did have a AR-15 loaded with him. Wether if he used it or not does not change the out come.
So to me, just shows the shallow mind of the hard core 2nd amendment avocate-still defending your gun like it was god!
Yup. Those janitors can mop those criminals right up!
Possibly not a bad idea. The janitors I remember from my school days were guys we didn't really want to mess with. And that was without guns! 8-)
 @glynes one would think we could do a little better than "possibly not a bad idea"
 @TruthinAdverts @glynes We have to start somewhere & "possibly not a bad idea" is as good a place as any.
 @katiemcc  @TruthinAdverts  @glynes "We have to start somewhere"
How about starting with extending the checks to private sales?
 @TruthinAdverts @glynes I think we'll get the "not a bad idea" long before we get the "great idea with ... practical merit".
 @katiemcc  @glynes Ah... see... I'd prefer we start with... "That's a great idea with a lot of practical merit"... but then... that's just me.
@glynes The ones in my schools were WWII or Korea Veterans and in one case a concentration camp survivor...all TOUGH men who took no BS.
"The school plans to pay for them to attend a two-day training course."
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I realize it's a place to start, but a two day course? I think, at minimum, some regularly scheduled training should be included, even if the volunteers own their own weapons and have some experience.
 @barkingmadÂ
you can learn a lot in two days, and then you go practice more on your own. See firearms training for PIs and Bail Bond Recovery Agents.
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https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/images/Revised%20Student%20Study%20Guide%203-11.pdf
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