Could tougher voting laws squelch the youth vote?
CHICAGO (AP) - Gone are the days when young voters weren't taken seriously. In 2008, they helped propel Barack Obama into the Oval Office, supporting him by a 2-1 margin.
But that higher profile also has landed them in the middle of the debate over some state laws that regulate voter registration and how people identify themselves at the polls.
Since the last election, Pennsylvania, Kansas, Wisconsin and Texas and other states have tried to limit or ban the use of student IDs as voter identification. In Florida, lawmakers tried to limit "third party" organizations, including student groups, from registering new voters.
Proponents of voter ID and registration laws say the laws are intended to combat voter fraud. The intent, they say, is to make sure people who are voting are who they say they are and have the right to vote.
"In this day and age, nothing could be more rational than requiring a photo ID when voters come to the polls," Pennsylvania's senior deputy attorney general, Patrick Cawley, said recently when defending the state's new law in court.
Others see these efforts as attempts to squelch the aspirations of the budding young voting bloc and other groups, and they're using that claim to try to get more young people fired up.
"You think your vote doesn't matter? Then why are they trying so hard to take it away from you?" asks Heather Smith, president of Rock the Vote, a group that works to register young voters. "It does demonstrate the power they have."
Smith notes that it's not just an issue for college students.
She was teaching a civics class for graduating seniors at an inner-city high school in Philadelphia this spring and asked how many among them had driver's licenses that could be used, if the Pennsylvania law requiring a photo ID to vote were to survive the legal challenge.
"They looked at me like I had two heads," she says. Only two students in the room of 200 raised a hand; few of the students had cars.
These are the sort of stories that have led some students to get involved, particularly on college campuses.
In Florida, Rock The Vote joined with the League of Women Voters to challenge restrictions on "third party" voter registration. A federal judge said last spring that many of the restrictions made it too difficult for legitimate voter registration organizations to do their work. During the fight, students at the University of Central Florida placed ironing boards around campus, a symbol that they were "pressing the issue."
Now, while most college campuses are relatively quiet, some of those students have taken it upon themselves to register their peers during freshman orientation this summer.
"We feel like it's up to us," says Anna Eskamani, a 22-year-old graduate student and a leader at the Florida school.
In Pennsylvania, when lawmakers were proposing the voter ID law there, 22-year-old Adam Boyer was among students who asked them to reconsider an outright ban on the use of student IDs.
"I'd like to think that the proponents of this law weren't trying to disenfranchise certain demographics. I hope it was an oversight on their part, and I think that was the case," says Boyer, a recent graduate of Penn State who plans to attend law school at Villanova this fall.
Pennsylvania lawmakers decided to allow "valid" student IDs, meaning they had to have expiration dates. But most colleges and universities in Pennsylvania didn't have such dates on their IDs.
So students and other groups that advocate for them have been working with universities in Pennsylvania and states such as Wisconsin to add them. A state judge struck down Wisconsin's voter ID law; that ruling is being appealed.
New IDs at institutions such as Penn State, for instance, now have expiration dates. Returning students also can get an expiration sticker to put on their IDs, a common plan at schools that are addressing the ID issue.
Joel Weidner, a Penn State official who helps oversee ID policy, says the school is most concerned about out-of-state students who might rely on a student ID to vote if they don't have a Pennsylvania driver's license. Of the 80,000 Penn State students on campuses statewide, he estimates that about 10,000 are from other states.
But in many instances, returning students still have to be aware that they need the expiration sticker and know where to get one.
"What we don't want to see is a school offering up a change to students but doing it quietly," says Dan Vicuna, staff attorney and campus vote project coordinator at the Fair Elections Legal Network in Washington. "We really hope it will be coupled with a real public awareness campaign."
Voter ID and registration aren't the only voting issues on campuses.
Long lines and a lack of polling places have been problems for students in past elections, particularly in 2008. So some universities are trying to get polling places on campus. Arizona State is among those that recently approached election officials and got one.
In Ohio, student groups are working with county officials to lengthen early voting
"Some have been more receptive to that than others," says Will Klatt, a recent graduate of Ohio University who is now a senior organizer for the Ohio Student Association.
All the rules, and the differences in them state to state and even county to county, can create a lot of confusion for young voters, some of whom are voting for the first time
In Wisconsin, during a gubernatorial recall election in June, the League of Women Voters received 200 calls from students who said voting requirements caused confusion at the polls. Many, the league said, left without voting. The confusion, in that instance, was over a requirement that Wisconsin voters live in a precinct for 28 days to be eligible to vote there. That's a tricky requirement for students, who are often mobile in the summer months.
Last year in Maine, groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union criticized Secretary of State Charlie Summers after he sent letters to out-of state students at four universities telling them they needed to register their vehicles in Maine and get driver's licenses there if they wanted to continue voting in the state. Some saw the move as voter intimidation and a violation of the Voting Rights Act, particularly because Summers found no evidence of voter fraud in an investigation that prompted the letters.
Summers' spokeswoman said the secretary of state had consulted with the Maine attorney general and "acted in accordance with all state and federal laws."
The U.S. Supreme Court has sided with students on this issue and their ability to vote where they attend school, even when they've come from another state.
"So students should be registering in the communities that they feel are home - whether that's their parents' home or their apartment or their dorm room," says Lee Rowland, counsel for the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice, a nonpartisan legal think tank in New York. "It is a constitutional right to vote."
To help them understand that right, she says the Brennan Center created an online guide for students with pages that detail voting rules and requirements in each state - http://bit.ly/Pl1pbE.
It's not uncommon for out-of-state students to vote where they think their vote has the most impact. So if they attend a school in a swing state, they often vote there. It also can simply just be a matter of convenience, and a way to avoid going through the process of getting an absentee ballot.
Right now, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Kansas, Indiana and Georgia are among states with voter ID requirements in place. Tennessee is the only state that bans use of any student ID. Others limit use to state institutions and/or require proof that the ID is valid, such as the expiration date.
Wisconsin, Texas, South Carolina and Virginia are among states where voter ID laws are on hold due to legal challenges.
But will young people vote in November in the same numbers as they did in 2008?
Eskamani, the grad student in Florida, has noticed a lot of disillusionment among her peers over the economy and a political process they consider "anti-student."
"They feel beaten down," says Eskamani. "Instead of more passionate, I think sometimes they feel more frustrated."
Some think that frustration could fuel more involvement, especially as students return to campus this fall.
"My hope is that (voter ID and other laws) backfire and that young people find out and are annoyed by it - and that it motivates them more to get out and vote," says Tobin Van Ostern, policy manager for Campus Progress, a Washington-based group that works on voting rights and other issues relevant to students.
If that happens, Eskamani tells her peers, "WE will determine who the next president of the United States is."
___
Martha Irvine is a national writer for The Associated Press.
But that higher profile also has landed them in the middle of the debate over some state laws that regulate voter registration and how people identify themselves at the polls.
Since the last election, Pennsylvania, Kansas, Wisconsin and Texas and other states have tried to limit or ban the use of student IDs as voter identification. In Florida, lawmakers tried to limit "third party" organizations, including student groups, from registering new voters.
Proponents of voter ID and registration laws say the laws are intended to combat voter fraud. The intent, they say, is to make sure people who are voting are who they say they are and have the right to vote.
"In this day and age, nothing could be more rational than requiring a photo ID when voters come to the polls," Pennsylvania's senior deputy attorney general, Patrick Cawley, said recently when defending the state's new law in court.
Others see these efforts as attempts to squelch the aspirations of the budding young voting bloc and other groups, and they're using that claim to try to get more young people fired up.
"You think your vote doesn't matter? Then why are they trying so hard to take it away from you?" asks Heather Smith, president of Rock the Vote, a group that works to register young voters. "It does demonstrate the power they have."
Smith notes that it's not just an issue for college students.
She was teaching a civics class for graduating seniors at an inner-city high school in Philadelphia this spring and asked how many among them had driver's licenses that could be used, if the Pennsylvania law requiring a photo ID to vote were to survive the legal challenge.
"They looked at me like I had two heads," she says. Only two students in the room of 200 raised a hand; few of the students had cars.
These are the sort of stories that have led some students to get involved, particularly on college campuses.
In Florida, Rock The Vote joined with the League of Women Voters to challenge restrictions on "third party" voter registration. A federal judge said last spring that many of the restrictions made it too difficult for legitimate voter registration organizations to do their work. During the fight, students at the University of Central Florida placed ironing boards around campus, a symbol that they were "pressing the issue."
Now, while most college campuses are relatively quiet, some of those students have taken it upon themselves to register their peers during freshman orientation this summer.
"We feel like it's up to us," says Anna Eskamani, a 22-year-old graduate student and a leader at the Florida school.
In Pennsylvania, when lawmakers were proposing the voter ID law there, 22-year-old Adam Boyer was among students who asked them to reconsider an outright ban on the use of student IDs.
"I'd like to think that the proponents of this law weren't trying to disenfranchise certain demographics. I hope it was an oversight on their part, and I think that was the case," says Boyer, a recent graduate of Penn State who plans to attend law school at Villanova this fall.
Pennsylvania lawmakers decided to allow "valid" student IDs, meaning they had to have expiration dates. But most colleges and universities in Pennsylvania didn't have such dates on their IDs.
So students and other groups that advocate for them have been working with universities in Pennsylvania and states such as Wisconsin to add them. A state judge struck down Wisconsin's voter ID law; that ruling is being appealed.
New IDs at institutions such as Penn State, for instance, now have expiration dates. Returning students also can get an expiration sticker to put on their IDs, a common plan at schools that are addressing the ID issue.
Joel Weidner, a Penn State official who helps oversee ID policy, says the school is most concerned about out-of-state students who might rely on a student ID to vote if they don't have a Pennsylvania driver's license. Of the 80,000 Penn State students on campuses statewide, he estimates that about 10,000 are from other states.
But in many instances, returning students still have to be aware that they need the expiration sticker and know where to get one.
"What we don't want to see is a school offering up a change to students but doing it quietly," says Dan Vicuna, staff attorney and campus vote project coordinator at the Fair Elections Legal Network in Washington. "We really hope it will be coupled with a real public awareness campaign."
Voter ID and registration aren't the only voting issues on campuses.
Long lines and a lack of polling places have been problems for students in past elections, particularly in 2008. So some universities are trying to get polling places on campus. Arizona State is among those that recently approached election officials and got one.
In Ohio, student groups are working with county officials to lengthen early voting
"Some have been more receptive to that than others," says Will Klatt, a recent graduate of Ohio University who is now a senior organizer for the Ohio Student Association.
All the rules, and the differences in them state to state and even county to county, can create a lot of confusion for young voters, some of whom are voting for the first time
In Wisconsin, during a gubernatorial recall election in June, the League of Women Voters received 200 calls from students who said voting requirements caused confusion at the polls. Many, the league said, left without voting. The confusion, in that instance, was over a requirement that Wisconsin voters live in a precinct for 28 days to be eligible to vote there. That's a tricky requirement for students, who are often mobile in the summer months.
Last year in Maine, groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union criticized Secretary of State Charlie Summers after he sent letters to out-of state students at four universities telling them they needed to register their vehicles in Maine and get driver's licenses there if they wanted to continue voting in the state. Some saw the move as voter intimidation and a violation of the Voting Rights Act, particularly because Summers found no evidence of voter fraud in an investigation that prompted the letters.
Summers' spokeswoman said the secretary of state had consulted with the Maine attorney general and "acted in accordance with all state and federal laws."
The U.S. Supreme Court has sided with students on this issue and their ability to vote where they attend school, even when they've come from another state.
"So students should be registering in the communities that they feel are home - whether that's their parents' home or their apartment or their dorm room," says Lee Rowland, counsel for the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice, a nonpartisan legal think tank in New York. "It is a constitutional right to vote."
To help them understand that right, she says the Brennan Center created an online guide for students with pages that detail voting rules and requirements in each state - http://bit.ly/Pl1pbE.
It's not uncommon for out-of-state students to vote where they think their vote has the most impact. So if they attend a school in a swing state, they often vote there. It also can simply just be a matter of convenience, and a way to avoid going through the process of getting an absentee ballot.
Right now, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Kansas, Indiana and Georgia are among states with voter ID requirements in place. Tennessee is the only state that bans use of any student ID. Others limit use to state institutions and/or require proof that the ID is valid, such as the expiration date.
Wisconsin, Texas, South Carolina and Virginia are among states where voter ID laws are on hold due to legal challenges.
But will young people vote in November in the same numbers as they did in 2008?
Eskamani, the grad student in Florida, has noticed a lot of disillusionment among her peers over the economy and a political process they consider "anti-student."
"They feel beaten down," says Eskamani. "Instead of more passionate, I think sometimes they feel more frustrated."
Some think that frustration could fuel more involvement, especially as students return to campus this fall.
"My hope is that (voter ID and other laws) backfire and that young people find out and are annoyed by it - and that it motivates them more to get out and vote," says Tobin Van Ostern, policy manager for Campus Progress, a Washington-based group that works on voting rights and other issues relevant to students.
If that happens, Eskamani tells her peers, "WE will determine who the next president of the United States is."
___
Martha Irvine is a national writer for The Associated Press.
I'm trying to figure out how someone can go their entire life without some sort of photo ID these days. Â I'm sorry, but it's not that expensive so get off your rear end and get one. Â If you're too poor, maybe someone can start a program where welfare recipients can get a voucher for an ID card.
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Mind you, this probably won't matter in Washington State, where we hand out ID cards and drivers licenses like candy to whatever Tom, Dick and Harriet that walks through the door.
I wonder how the elections would go if only citizens and real live people voted? If a person is too lazy to get a photo ID to vote, too bad. And who stands to gain from this voter fraud? Why is the media sympathetic to the "disenfranchised" voter? Obvious answers to obvious questions.
 @acepaul "Why is the media sympathetic to the "disenfranchised" voter?"
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Perhaps it's related to the actions during the early 20th century where many Blacks in the South were prevented from voting by restrictive laws that targeted them by requiring things that many Blacks at that time had minimal or non-existent access to.
For instance, requiring a birth certificate from a hospital for a segment of the population that did not at that time normally use hospitals for child birth - most were born at home with (or without) the assistance of a midwife, or just a member or acquaintance of the family.
Other such requirements were laws that required an existing registered voter to "certify" a person applying for registration - in a State where no Black person was registered, and no White voter would dear to certify a Black.
Requirements to own property, to have a level of education, many other restrictive actions targeting Blacks specifically.
So...the interest in such laws, including how they can restrict specific groups, has a solid reason for existing.
 @OrcasThunder While I understand the history you mention, in this day and age, the inability of a person to get a photo ID is a bit extreme. Those arguments just don't hold up anymore. Therefore, there must be another underlying reason behind the adverse reaction to what many people regard as common sense. I think the political motivation is fairly obvious.
 @acepaul
"Well, if a person can not provide the simple information it takes to get a photo ID, they need to figure it out."...
If it does not exist, how should they do that?
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"I am not trying to be cold, but we need to stop the flood of ineligible and fraudulent voting that occurs."...
Can you substantiate that claim with actual studies from unbiased and reliable sources - not just some news report or from a blog? I posted my sources elsewhere which state that the occurrence of any significant fraud in US elections is miniscule to the point of being non-existent. In most cases, efforts to obtain fraudulent voter ID is stopped during the application phase. So, again, please show the evidence of this massive fraud you speak of.
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"If a person is so physically unable to get a photo ID, how will they be able to vote?"...
Even for a Libertarian, that is an absurd question. You never heard of absentee ballots?
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"There are thousands of eligible people that for one reason or another do not vote."...
And that would be by their choice - far different than being denied the right to vote by government actions.
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And it sounds like you are willing to deny a US citizen the right to vote, simply to prevent a few who might be able to get past the laws and cheat...and that is an unacceptable AND un-American position to take.
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What seems to be missed in all of this is the system used by Washington State, where a voter can be "challenged", and have their vote held in abeyance while the validity of the challenge is determined. If the vote is legal it is then available if it would possibly make a difference in the result. That gives those who suspect fraud AND the voter a chance to be heard.
 @OrcasThunder Well, if a person can not provide the simple information it takes to get a photo ID, they need to figure it out. There will be a few people that just cant do it. I am not trying to be cold, but we need to stop the flood of ineligible and fraudulent voting that occurs.
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If a person is so physically unable to get a photo ID, how will they be able to vote? There are thousands of eligible people that for one reason or another do not vote.
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Using another person's birth certificate to get a photo ID for fraudulent purposes is a punishable offense and much more work than circumventing the pitiful safeguards we now have.
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Lets not allow the absurd notion of disenfranchised masses perpetuate fraudulent activity.
 @acepaul "in this day and age, the inability of a person to get a photo ID is a bit extreme."
Not true. Part of that ability involves having a birth certificate.
If a person was born at home in many parts of this country during the early 1900's, there likely IS no birth certificate. My mother was one of them.
Plus, what IS a birth certificate - how can you prove that the one you are showing is YOURS, and not someone else's? In Seattle, you need the following (assuming they can afford the $20 fee, which many can't):
Name of child (First, Middle, Last)
Birthdate of child
Place of birth
Mother's full maiden name (First, Middle, Last)
Father's full name (if it appears on the record)
Your relationship to the person (self, parent, or explain)
Adopted? (Yes or No)
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In my family genealogy searches, I often found the birth announcements of individuals - name, date, place, parents. Plus, follow up searches found their siblings, occupations, where they went to school. The census provides a lot of that.
If I have that information on an individual, I can get their birth certificate and present it as mine.
And many older people may be home bound - can't afford the ride to present the information...or may not be physically able to go there.
One party sure hopes so.
I guess I am bit puzzled by the angle on this, regarding the students.
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My son is a student, he will be moving to Utah in about 10 days to continue his studies. BUT, he will not be voting as a Utah resident, as that is not his home/residence. He will be voting as a Washingtonian. He has already made the arrangements to make sure he gets his ballot.
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Why are students (apparently) treated differently than overseas military people? From reading this story, the students are voting based on where they go to school, not based on where their home of record is. Overseas military members vote based on where their home of record is.
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Why the difference?
 @LocalLady It has to do with a variety of laws governing the student's right to vote, and where. In many cases students will register in the State they are going to school in - because they are legally "residents" of that State while they are in school.
This is from About.com:
"How do I vote in my hometown election if I'm away at school?
If, say, you live in Hawaii but are in college in New York, chances are you aren't going to be able to head home to vote. You'll need to register as an absentee voter and have your ballot sent to you at school.
How do I vote in the state where my school is?
As long as you've registered to vote in your "new" state, you should get voter materials in the mail that will explain the issues, have candidate statements, and say where your local polling place is. You may very well vote right on your campus. If not, there's a pretty good chance that a lot of students at your school will need to get to the neighborhood polling place on Election Day. Check with your Student Activities or Student Life office to see if they are running shuttles or if there are any carpooling initiatives involved for reaching the polling place."
http://collegelife.about.com/od/cocurricularlife/a/studentvoting.htm
The REASONS for this attention is, of course, that many students tend to vote more liberal - and the conservatives don't see the students as "valid residents" of the State.
 @LocalLady The key is that your son is responsible and doesn't expect other people to figure it out for him. You should be proud!Â
More Republican scum trying to influence election outcomes:
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httphttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/25/inside-the-black-panther-case-anger-ignorance-and-/://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-24-tires-slashed_x.htm
http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/05/16/53000-dead-voters-found-in-florida/
http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem/voter-fraud-is-a-proven-election-manipulation-tactic
http://www.chicagonow.com/publius-forum/2012/06/democrat-vote-fraud-efforts-focusing-on-dane-and-milwaukee-counties/
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Yep, those filthy cheating Republicans,
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http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/04/30/3924376/democratic-precinct-chairwoman.html
http://specfriggintacular.wordpress.com/2012/04/03/democrats-arrested-andor-convicted-of-voter-fraud/
http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem/voter-fraud-deniers-ignore-the-facts
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/01/culture-of-corruption-update-ny-democrats-go-on-trial-for-massive-voter-fraud-case/
http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Democrat-admits-role-in-voter-fraud-case-2142541.php
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I could keep on going! No wonder Democrats oppose any attempt to keep our elections secure, fair, accurate and free of fraud.
 @ByeByeBarry In the last few months, two government officials have been arrested and/or convicted of voter fraud. Go ahead and google their party. I'll wait.
@ByeByeBarry. Wow. Pretty small potatoes when compared to Rep voter fraud. Plus most of your links are opinion pieces or worse.
I don't mind having to show ID to register, or to vote. When fraud is an issue we must take measures to ensure that all voters are legal US citizens. The only people being disenfranchised here are the ones that can't get legal ID regardless of reason. When non-citizens, felons and dead people are voting, measures have to be taken.
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I would challenge anyone to offer a legitimate argument as to why it's not right to prove your eligibility? Every citizen can be required to prove their ID to vote, where's the disenfranchisement? I think that any politician that counts on illegal voters would be more of an issue.
 @WARevolution More to the point, how often does voter fraud actually happen?
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This is from the Brennan Center For Justice:
* Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare.
* Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud.
* Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct.
* Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda.
* Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action.
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/
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US News and World Report has a report that states:
"What about widely publicized stories of registration fraud?
Those cases are always very easily caught, very frequently by the very organization that's overseeing the work. And there's absolutely zero evidence that anyone who has put any false information on a voter registration form has actually voted using that information. Problems with voter registration [are] different than fraud at the polls that ends up impacting the election."
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/04/24/the-myth-of-voter-fraud
IMHO, the ONLY widespread example of fraud in US voting was in Florida, in 2000, when the GOP had to resort to using the SCOTUS to bypass the will of the people.
I don't see anything wrong with having to present a photo id to vote. The only problem I see is that there is no way to do this with all the mail in ballots. There should be some way to make positive that whomever is casting the vote is not only elgible, but are who they say they are when mailed ballots are used.
 @Jatok Excellent point.
In washington state they do need to check voters registration against the obituaries.
According to the New York Times there are approximately 1.8 million dead people on the active voters registration roles nationwide at any time and approximatly 2.8 million people are registered in more than one state. If we want free elections in this country voter ID is just the begining of what we need to do to clean up the election fraud. As the DNC says in Chicago. "Vote early and vote often."
 @Mej47 Like this Republican who is being investigated for voting for his dead girlfriend? http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/2012/07/25/20120725pinal-supervisor-hopeful-enright-quits.html
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Or more like the Republican secretary of state who was recently convicted?
 @Mej47 "According to the New York Times"
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Date of that report, perhaps a link? And how many of those actually attempt to vote? Oh, here it is..."At least 1.8 million registered voters wonât be showing up to the polls this fall - because theyâre dead."...note the words "wonât be showing up to the polls" - which means there was no fraud attempted.
Here's a bit of news for you, lots of people die in this country, for many reasons, in the time between the close of registration to vote and the actual vote. And, for many reasons, none of them actually try to vote.
As to multiple registrations, that is the responsibility of the individual voting districts to let the prior State of the change.
But all that is a procedural issue - where are the records of the voter fraud you people speak of?
 @toadaway Please, show documented examples of this kind of "fraud" existing here.
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The only two things disenfranchising me is there is no politician you can vote for that hasn't already been bought and paid for by lobbyists and there isn't a nickel's difference between either side and what they end up doing. So what the hell is the difference who the voter is, he aint getting anything near what he voted to support anyway.
The usual suspects sure get riled up about having to prove you are entitled to vote.
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I bet the cat  that cut in front of me at the Squishy Mart yesterday, buying ice with his  EBT and who had enough cash to go to the liquor store later (he said), buy his Newport cigs and had sub-woofers the size of garbage can lids in his modified Civic, had to verify that he was eligible to have me pay for his life of leisure.
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If you guys don't want voter id, then you CAN NOT object to the thumb dipped in indelible purple ink (crimson for Pullman voters).
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4-3-2-1...
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"But SOME people don't HAVE thumbs. You are disenfranchising the Thumbless..."
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Boy, it sure is a good thing that the Republicans made sure the SAME CORRUPTED VOTING COMPUTERS that put Cheney in the Oval Office are being used still; so they have a backup when this latest round of Constitution violations gets done being committed. Hard to believe that they still needed the hanging chad thing, even with the 5-20 ballot count corruption the machines were set for.
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@FreeCoffeeNow! And also make sure the voters are alive so we don't end up with a democrat again.
No legal ID, no vote.
The "prevent voter fraud" excuse is just that - an excuse. The incidence of true voter fraud is so small as to be laughable. Â Probably one of the greatest incidence of voter fraud occurred in Florida when the bushie nominated chief justices decided he won the 2004 election and the republicon official in Fla decided that no, there wouldn't be a recount. Â http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/2004votefraud.html
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This year's republicon-inspired "protect the people from voter fraud" issue is B.S. with a capital B. Â The intend is to disenfranchise the elderly, the poor, black people, and young voters particularly those who have never voted precisely BECAUSE those individuals are statistically more likely to vote Dem. Â Thousands of voters in Fla and other states where republicons are thrashing about in their ugliness to maintain a majority have (fraudulently) already been told they can't vote.
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I have faith that young people won't buy into this and have the courage and strength to fight back (which I know they are already doing, in droves). They are also helping older citizens and other individuals make sure they get to vote. NEVER underestimate our youth. They are smarter, braver, and far more likely to be involved in politics than ever before in our history. We best make dam.n sure they get their votes in.
@comdown I like your passion, but the vast majority of youth voters have zero experience making a living, have no idea how it all works, and are voting in a mob mentality. They have the right to do that, but let's not over-do the "smarter" aspect of it.
 @eichler34  @comdown "and are voting in a mob mentality"
You mean like the TP/GOP voters - or the Religious Right, who all believe that Obama is a Muslim, and are willing to put a Cult member in the office instead of a "Muslim"?
 @comdown Perhaps you can name the three people that were "disenfranchised" because although, they CAN get their drivers licenses, social security, EBT, student loans and the like, somehow... magically... they somehow can't figure  out this durn fandagled thing called voter ID.Â
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Name three people here in this state that were "disenfranchised" and then tell us why the Democrat Party allowed it to happen.
 @comdown guess that is why you just got through having a city council in NY go to jail?  There are currently 24? investigations of widespread voter fraud going on around the nation, and that does not include the NBPP case which Holder just illegally dismissed.
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@Les_Gvt. Do you mean such as this one? âAn employee of a private voter registration firm alleges that his bosses trashed registration forms filled out by Democratic voters because they only wanted to sign up Republican voters.â
 @Les_Gvt How about YOU provide that for YOUR assertion first?
 @flyskiwindsurf source of story- first I have heard of that one
There is one basic reason for needing to show a valid ID-Â to prove you live in the precinct in which you are attempting to vote..
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otherwise, the guy running for your city council seat could ship his entire family in to vote for him, and throw the election
 @Les_Gvt How, exactly? Given the mail in vote, how does having/not having a photo make a difference?
I sure hate to see any more hanging chads, illegal immigrants voting, all of the corruption and lies as seen in Florida. These days it's more like an election in Mexico or some other third world country. We teach the world (like Afghanistan) how to do this and then we just screw it up. There are too many Chinese fake ID's being carried by illegal aliens.
Congress is taking a much needed vacation. They didn't need it so much as the rest of us need a break from them.
 @Elvis Go back to sleep.
 @Petwlkr I don't get it.
Buy a vowel.
Seems like everyone is positioning themselves for the Big Game. Redistricting, tighter restrictions, all the usual tricks. Both parties do it - the one that is more desperate at the time seems to do it the most.
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American politics - go figure.
 @Audio Cat Actually, redistricting is required by the Constitution.
 @OrcasThunder Yeah, I get that part. It's how they play the lines - THAT they play the lines - to advance party leverage instead of balance.
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It's all about demography.Â
@Audio Cat. And the Reps are really really really desperate right now.
"Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done."
Â
Mike Turzai
Republican Pennsylvania State Senator.
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All you need to know right there.
I can only assume that they want to keep the students from voting, because they are making a difference in the elections. How convenient.
 @Shelly So you are telling me that these "students" are too inept to get a driver's license? If they can't pass a simple drivers test or at the very least stand in line for an hour and get an ID card, then I question whether or not they are intelligent enough to vote!
 @whoareyou Why should a student who uses transit bother to get a driver's license?
And if "intelligence" were a criteria for voting, why is it not mentioned in the US Constitution?
 @OrcasThunder Did you not read the part about not being too lazy to take an hour out of their lives and get an ID card? Read my post more carefully! Yes, if you are too stupid to pass a driver's test, then I would question whether or not you have taken the time to understand what you are voting for! Of course liberals like uneducated voters, they tend to mark the box with the big D next to it!
 @Shelly do you really want some kid from Idaho going to UW to really decide your next mayor?
 @Les_Gvt
 It doesn't matter where they're from. If they're attending UW, then they're a Seattle resident. As long as they're of age and not a convicted felon, they have every right to register and vote in Seattle. Their vote is just as important as that of a kid who was born and raised in the area. Why would you want to deny them their Constitutionally guaranteed and protected right to vote? What are you afraid of?
 @Les_Gvt And if they haven't changed that residency, how do they manage to become registered to vote here? States do exchange information such as that, as part of the verification process.
 @Mikeftm not necessarily, They need to change their residency. until they do, they are still counted as a citizen of their home town. Where do they consider their permanent address? Where do they go when school is not in session? back home to momma, or live under a bridge?
@Shelly
"I can only assume that they want to keep the students from voting"
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And who exactly is "they?" Oh yea, those evil Republicans. Our elections must be free from fraud or evenb the appearance thereof or the country will descend in to anarchy. If the people lose faith in our electoral system we will be finished as a nation. There is absolutely not one single good reason not to require legitimate identification in order to be able to vote. It is total crap that identification laws are meant to disenfrachise certain individuals or groups of people. You are required to have an ID to cash a check, open a bank account, get a library card, purchase alcohol, drive a car, and numerous other activities. If you refuse to or can't get an ID in order to vote then you are disenfrachising yourself or you are a complete loser. Â
@ByeByeBarry There are over 13 million legal aliens in the US and the number of illegals is estimated at somewhere between ten and twenty million.
No one knows how many of these non-citizens including college students have voter registration cards at this time.
If legal citizens are too stupid or too lazy to make the effort to obtain the proper paperwork and make their votes count they can join the more than 50% of qualified Americans who don't vote in our elections now.
In stead of whinning about voters proving their citizenship these people should devote their time and money to making sure every legitimate voter has the correct ID and actually votes.
 @ByeByeBarry "It is total crap that identification laws are meant to disenfrachise certain individuals or groups of people" It's not crap, it's GOP party platform.
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Paul Weyrich, Figurehead of the Conservative movement and co founder of the Heritage Foundation & the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), spelled it out quite clearly when he declared...
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"I don't want everybody to vote." As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
 @Mej47  @Petwlkr "don't want any exceptions made for the men and women serving in combat"
Care to explain that remark?
@Petwlkr @ByeByeBarry
The DNC, Ohio Democrats, and the campaign for Barack Obamaâs re-election have filed a lawsuit in Ohio over an exception for early voting for members of the military and US civilians overseas.
The same people who want every potential Democrat vote counted in the Pennsylvania whether it's legal or not don't want any exceptions made for the men and women serving in combat because they historically vote predominantly for the Republicans.
But Hey, itâs all part of the âvast right wing conspiracyâ.
 @ByeByeBarryÂ
"It is total crap that identification laws are meant to disenfrachise certain individuals or groups of people"
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"Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done."
Â
Mike Turzai
Republican Pennsylvania State Senator.
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Yeah, its totla crap though, right?  I mean you only have GOP law makers going on record stating the opposite.
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 @ByeByeBarryÂ
"Â If the people lose faith in our electoral system we will be finished as a nation"
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The only people loosing faith are the republicans who seem to have to lie cheat and steal to get elected. Maybe if you broadened your base past the rich old white christian crowd wit ha mix of the poor and too stupid to know better crowd you would have some successes.
@toadaway@T@ByeByeBarry
Care to show actual "proof" to back up your innuendo?
If there had been a shred of "evidence" that would stand the light of day, the GOP would have filed actions in court.
They did not, ergo there was no such "evidence".
@T H I S @ByeByeBarry hmmmm....you were born after the gregoire vs. rossi election.
 @ByeByeBarryÂ
"Our elections must be free from fraud"
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Please cite all of those instances where fraud has changed an election? Â
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You are reciting talking points.. congradulations.
 @ByeByeBarry  @T "it has since been proven that felons and dead people cast ballots"
Got any documentation to back up that statement?
Do you really thing that - given the "proof" you cite - that the GOP would have hesitated one-half heartbeat before filing a major court action against the Governor, seeking to force her out of office?
Since I can't recall ANY such action ever being filed, I just have to believe that such "evidence" is delusion in the minds of poor losers.
 @flyskiwindsurf the funny thing about Florida is- they recounted the precintcs hand picked by Gore
@ByeByeBarry. Or Florida for (much?) more than a decade.
@T H I S
"Please cite all of those instances where fraud has changed an election?"
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If I think really hard...how about Gregoire vs. Rossi? Gee imagine that! Gregoire won a recount by 129 votes and it has since been proven that felons and dead people cast ballots, particularly in King County. How about the 1960 election Nixon vs. Kennedy where historians now acknowledge widespread fraud? Why is that liberals rather than taking simple steps to ensure fraud does not occur during our elections oppose any attempt to ensure honesty and integrity in our electoral system?  Â