Democrats stiffen spine against trimming benefits

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama's re-election has stiffened Democrats' spine against cutting popular benefit programs such as Medicare and Social Security. Their new resolve could become as big a hurdle to a deal that would skirt crippling tax increases and spending cuts in January as Republicans' resistance to raising tax rates on the wealthy.
Just last year, Obama and top Democrats were willing during budget negotiations with Republicans to take politically risky steps such as reducing the annual inflation adjustment to Social Security and raising the eligibility age for Medicare.
Now, with new leverage from Obama's big election victory and a playing field for negotiations that is more favorable in other ways, too, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and other Democrats are taking a harder line.
"I've made it very clear. I've told anyone that will listen, including everyone in the White House, including the president, that I am not going to be part of having Social Security as part of these talks relating to this deficit," Reid, D-Nev., told reporters.
Reid's edict would appear to take a key proposal off the table as an ingredient for a deal on avoiding the "fiscal cliff," the year-end combination of expiring President George W. Bush-era tax cuts and harsh across-the-board spending cuts.
At issue is the inflation adjustment used by the government to calculate cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security and other federal programs. A less generous inflation measure that takes into account consumers finding alternatives when prices go up could reduce deficits by more than $200 billion over the next decade.
It's a no-brainer for many budget wonks because it means gradual, less noticeable curbs to the growth of benefits. It also means about $70 billion more tax revenues over 10 years because automatic rises in tax brackets to account for inflation would be smaller.
That new inflation index, known as chained Consumer Price Index, is a magic elixir for budget writers. But it's anathema to many liberals, who say that moving to the new cost-of-living measure could cut average retiree benefits by about $600 a year a decade after taking effect and mean a cut of about $1,000 a year after 20 years.
"Think about it this way. You're standing on the deck of a boat and you're in very deep water and they want you to swim, but they're going to put a log chain around your ankle," Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, told a group of liberal activists assembled for a rally Thursday in a Senate hearing room. "That's chained CPI."
Sixteen months ago, Obama's White House took a different view during talks with House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, on a possible budget deal. A White House draft offer by top Obama aide Rob Nabors, made public by Washington Post author Bob Woodward, proposed several controversial changes to benefit programs, including the lower inflation adjustment, raising the eligibility age for Medicare and higher Medicare premiums.
Those negotiations, however, were conducted on a playing field that favored Republicans. It was less than a year after Obama's self-described "shellacking" in the 2010 elections and the president was desperate to win an increase in the government's borrowing cap and avoid a government default on its debt that should shatter financial markets. Also, Obama still faced re-election in 2012.
Now conditions favor Obama.
He decisively won re-election and Republicans seem fearful of being tagged with the blame if an impasse results in the government going over the fiscal cliff. Obama and Democrats already are portraying Republicans as hostage-takers willing let tax rates rise on everyone if the lower Bush-era tax rates are not also extended for the top 2 percent to 3 percent of earners - those with incomes above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for joint filers.
The new balance of power means that Democrats who once would have acquiesced reluctantly to GOP demands for stiff benefit cuts are now balking at ideas such as chained CPI or an increase in the Medicare retirement age, as well as demanding GOP concessions to higher taxes.
"The price for that kind of thing has gone up," said a senior House Democrat who required anonymity to speak frankly on party strategy. "Negotiations depend on the situation. No one should expect to get the same kind of deal."
Republicans have gotten the message, but insist that higher tax revenues be paired with cuts to rapidly growing programs such as Medicare and the Medicaid health care program for the poor and disabled. These programs are called "entitlements" because eligibility is based on meeting criteria such as age or income.
"Washington's problem isn't that it taxes too little, but that it spends too much," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "But in a good-faith effort to make progress on boosting the economy and government's long-term solvency, Republicans like me have said for more than a year now that we're open to new revenue in exchange for meaningful reforms to the entitlement programs that are the primary drivers of our debt."
New Hampshire Sen. Kelly Ayotte said in the GOP's weekly radio address Saturday that "any effort to address our fiscal crisis without including entitlement reform can't be taken seriously."
No way, say many liberals.
"We're going to send a loud message to the leadership in the House, in the Senate, and President Obama: 'Do not cut Social Security, do not cut Medicare, do not cut Medicaid,'" said Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, a self-declared socialist who aligns with Democrats. "Every now and then elections have consequences. We won."
Republicans and even some Obama allies worry that liberal demands will make it harder for the president to seal a bargain with the GOP.
Rep. Mike Quigley, D-Ill., said Obama has the same problem with his party's liberal base that Boehner has with some conservative Republicans. "Boehner has a disproportionate group of his folks skewing things too far out and the president has equally the same sort of problems with people who are horribly unreasonable," Quigley said.
Just last year, Obama and top Democrats were willing during budget negotiations with Republicans to take politically risky steps such as reducing the annual inflation adjustment to Social Security and raising the eligibility age for Medicare.
Now, with new leverage from Obama's big election victory and a playing field for negotiations that is more favorable in other ways, too, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and other Democrats are taking a harder line.
"I've made it very clear. I've told anyone that will listen, including everyone in the White House, including the president, that I am not going to be part of having Social Security as part of these talks relating to this deficit," Reid, D-Nev., told reporters.
Reid's edict would appear to take a key proposal off the table as an ingredient for a deal on avoiding the "fiscal cliff," the year-end combination of expiring President George W. Bush-era tax cuts and harsh across-the-board spending cuts.
At issue is the inflation adjustment used by the government to calculate cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security and other federal programs. A less generous inflation measure that takes into account consumers finding alternatives when prices go up could reduce deficits by more than $200 billion over the next decade.
It's a no-brainer for many budget wonks because it means gradual, less noticeable curbs to the growth of benefits. It also means about $70 billion more tax revenues over 10 years because automatic rises in tax brackets to account for inflation would be smaller.
That new inflation index, known as chained Consumer Price Index, is a magic elixir for budget writers. But it's anathema to many liberals, who say that moving to the new cost-of-living measure could cut average retiree benefits by about $600 a year a decade after taking effect and mean a cut of about $1,000 a year after 20 years.
"Think about it this way. You're standing on the deck of a boat and you're in very deep water and they want you to swim, but they're going to put a log chain around your ankle," Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, told a group of liberal activists assembled for a rally Thursday in a Senate hearing room. "That's chained CPI."
Sixteen months ago, Obama's White House took a different view during talks with House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, on a possible budget deal. A White House draft offer by top Obama aide Rob Nabors, made public by Washington Post author Bob Woodward, proposed several controversial changes to benefit programs, including the lower inflation adjustment, raising the eligibility age for Medicare and higher Medicare premiums.
Those negotiations, however, were conducted on a playing field that favored Republicans. It was less than a year after Obama's self-described "shellacking" in the 2010 elections and the president was desperate to win an increase in the government's borrowing cap and avoid a government default on its debt that should shatter financial markets. Also, Obama still faced re-election in 2012.
Now conditions favor Obama.
He decisively won re-election and Republicans seem fearful of being tagged with the blame if an impasse results in the government going over the fiscal cliff. Obama and Democrats already are portraying Republicans as hostage-takers willing let tax rates rise on everyone if the lower Bush-era tax rates are not also extended for the top 2 percent to 3 percent of earners - those with incomes above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for joint filers.
The new balance of power means that Democrats who once would have acquiesced reluctantly to GOP demands for stiff benefit cuts are now balking at ideas such as chained CPI or an increase in the Medicare retirement age, as well as demanding GOP concessions to higher taxes.
"The price for that kind of thing has gone up," said a senior House Democrat who required anonymity to speak frankly on party strategy. "Negotiations depend on the situation. No one should expect to get the same kind of deal."
Republicans have gotten the message, but insist that higher tax revenues be paired with cuts to rapidly growing programs such as Medicare and the Medicaid health care program for the poor and disabled. These programs are called "entitlements" because eligibility is based on meeting criteria such as age or income.
"Washington's problem isn't that it taxes too little, but that it spends too much," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "But in a good-faith effort to make progress on boosting the economy and government's long-term solvency, Republicans like me have said for more than a year now that we're open to new revenue in exchange for meaningful reforms to the entitlement programs that are the primary drivers of our debt."
New Hampshire Sen. Kelly Ayotte said in the GOP's weekly radio address Saturday that "any effort to address our fiscal crisis without including entitlement reform can't be taken seriously."
No way, say many liberals.
"We're going to send a loud message to the leadership in the House, in the Senate, and President Obama: 'Do not cut Social Security, do not cut Medicare, do not cut Medicaid,'" said Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, a self-declared socialist who aligns with Democrats. "Every now and then elections have consequences. We won."
Republicans and even some Obama allies worry that liberal demands will make it harder for the president to seal a bargain with the GOP.
Rep. Mike Quigley, D-Ill., said Obama has the same problem with his party's liberal base that Boehner has with some conservative Republicans. "Boehner has a disproportionate group of his folks skewing things too far out and the president has equally the same sort of problems with people who are horribly unreasonable," Quigley said.
Quit using social security to by votes. If you didn't put money into social security you can't receive anything from social security.
There should not be any more lifetime pensions for federal or state lawmakers. Some states are giving out $70,000 pensions for life after a crummy 5 years of service. They are bankrupting the system. $500 billion was spent from 2001 -2011 on military technologies that were dead ends. Military pay increased 50% since 2001. And the deranged hysteria created after 9/11 made it so no one could oppose the Iraq war before it started.
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The best ways to enact term limits is to end pensions for both federal and state lawmakers. Pensions are bankrupting everything from transit agencies to small cities. There is too much pay and pensions given out in public union jobs. And the federal defense budget needs to be hit hard. What is there left to protect except Wall Street tycoons? The call to tax corporations is not enough and it is a ploy to get money for public union employees not the hardest hit Americans.
@david davey your information is incorrect. Pensions are earned after serving 20 years. What you are referring to is an urban legend that is simply not true.
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@david davey You know, in a few years I will have earned my year pension...from 20 years of military service. So tell me again just how much of a liar am I? Or how stupid I am?
 @DeadRabitz Again, you are incorrect rabbit. They can pull a pension after 5 years.
@T_BONE_WALKER No attempt to confuse anything. Usually people understand that you are referring to a full retirement unless you state otherwise. So no, I am not a liar...since the same could be stated about you for not stating partial retirement. Take your semantics elsewhere they do you no good here.
 @DeadRabitz Now you attempt to confuse the issue with the word "Full" retirement. Liar!
@T_BONE_WALKER Of the two to us, I haven't advocated theft. Of the two of us I actually know what I am talking about. You found one exception, and you somehow think that makes me wrong. The fact of the matter still stand that you need to fulfill 20 years to earn a full retirement. Don't try calling me a lier when it's you who is advocating theft.
 @DeadRabitz No bunny boy, you dont have reason nor facts behind you. You twist when confronted with being a liar but most liars do. Your dismissive , authoritarian crap don't sell very well here or anywhere else. Its nice to see a liar stand up for thieves however.
@T_BONE_WALKER @DeadRabitz And ill do the same, the difference is that I unlike you have reason and facts behind me and you have your mental instability. Last I looked they still earn their retirements, you may not agree with their positions but what you think doesn't really matter now does it. Last I looked I am not advocating theft, unlike you.
 @DeadRabitz I'll tell you what I please and you cant do nothing about it bunny boy.
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You are wrong when you say they only get pensions after 20 years and the fact is they can get one for 5 years of service. Twist all you want but, your statement was incorrect.
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You also have a loose definition of the word "earned" due to the fact that their jobs are to represent us but instead represent corporate america. Let the corporations pay them their pensions. After all the pensions that have gone down the drain as a result of their actions and inactions, I'd say they more then just deserve to have theirs taken.
@T_BONE_WALKER don't try to tell me when I can talk and when I can't. You don't know what you are talking about. You insist I am wrong because there is an exception to the rules. Secondly I wasn't me who wants to take away earned retirements. Thirdly they do participate in SSI unless they started their jobs prior to 1984 and only if you are a federal employee.
 @DeadRabitz Hey rabbit, I'll talk when I want and you'll talk when you can.
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Dont tell someone they need 20 years when that isnt the case and dont try to twist it with your feeble "The only exception scenario" . What you stated was wrong, cut and dried.
@T_BONE_WALKER The only exception is for those who reach 62 years old. They still have to be vested meaning they have to have 5 years of service and then retire. Like I said, stop talking about things you don't understand. A 40 year old congressman with 10 years can not collect anything until he reaches 62. A congressman with 4 years at 62 gets nothing.
Ohio should be ashamed they never got rid of this Boehner ghoul. He is like an aging, old soap opera actor who needs drama. Bush #2 inherited a surplus and wasted it on a war he and his handlers lied about. Why didn't the Democrats hold hearings on the upcoming Iraq war in 2002? Were they afraid of being called "Nazis who were supporting another Hitler" by refusing to believe the WMD lies? That war is why we are broke.
So Democrats are taking lessons from Republicans on being anal about solving the country's problems. When will this crap ever end and the country can get on with business of moving forward instead of swirling down the toilet of soon to be banana republic. Where is a third viable political party when we need them? Obviously the two party system no longer works. I was once a Democrat before they became too Left Wing and then a Republican before they became too Right Wing, perhaps we need the American Centrist Party.
Increase taxes, cut wasteful programs. Clinton did it, and the 90's were pretty good. This isn't rocket science.
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@the unvarnished truth bwahahahaâ¦.. The economy was flourishing near the end of Bush1? bwahahahaâ¦. You are just so delusional that you are nearly delirious. You obviously donât know much of anything about what you are stating in the rest of your post either. Obviously. Go figure.
@the unvarnished truth Forget veto-proof. Anyone around here ever hear of a filibuster?
@the unvarnished truth Again you obviously donât even know what the heck that you are even posting about when you post 3.393 GDP. Gross domestic productâ. Look it up. And âRevenues are back up to GWB levelsâ was what you posted. You might want to check your history there truthless. GWB was not president in 1997. Boy. Just keep Bogarting that joint there truthless.
@the unvarnished truth Veto proof ha, that would have been true if people voted only on party lines except that wasn't what happened. May be you should get your history right before hand.
@the unvarnished truth You stated that âRevenues are back up to GWB levelsâ. So yeah youâre right. It just takes time for the full recovery to kick in. And you obviously donât even know what the 3.393 refers to. Obviously. You might want to check how much shrub, âdeficits donât matterâ and âitâs Hoover timeâ darth, âThey're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhatâ rummie, âgive me a lot of money but donât ask me where it is goingâ paulson ran up the debt with off the books wars, Medicare Part D, TARP, and who knows what else. All on the China credit card with interest and other items and fees to follow. Go figure. And of course you refuse to respond to anything else that I posted where I point out that you just lie lie lie and you continue to lie. Go figure even again.
@Darn it! ;->>
 @flyskiwindsurf I haven't heard the expression 'dingle berry' in years. Made me laugh. Thanks for the memory!
@the unvarnished truth (cont from above) You obviously also donât know where the heck that unemployment rates were at or were even trending at all under shrub_darth_paulson. Even if you do make the assumption (and you should know what that makes you, not that you arenât already obviously one) that Obama could turn everything around on 1/1/09. Again given the fact the he wasnât even sworn in until later. Plus again, given the fact that most of â09 was still under the last shrub_darth_paulson budget. Go figure. You are just so delirious and delusional that you should be embarrassed (you are especially at least the last letters). Obviously. And then you go on to a dem congress under a dem president being veto proof. Boy you are so naïve and such a dweeb are you sure that you are even mature enough to be posting on here? While you try to figure that out, look up filibuster proof you dingle berry. At the very least you are varnishing your âtruthâ beyond belief. Obviously.
@the unvarnished truth â3.393 is decent GDPâ? What the heck are you ingesting anyway? Plus the comparison was GHWB vs. Clinton and then shrub_darth_paulson vs. Obama. Even then you are vastly overstating. You might want to check that out. Especially given that most of â09 was still under the last shrub_darth_paulson budget. You might want to actually check all of that out also. I.e. the dems continuing to clean up after major repug messes. Especially those created under shrub_darth_paulson. Duh. And even then even you admit that things are recovering. Go figure. (cont below)
All we need to do is cancel the pensions of all politicians and have them participate in SSI. No free healthcare and only the kind of healthcare that we can buy so the only care is medicare for them. Pay them while they are in office and send them back to work when they aren't.
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I think this would straighten out the funding of the two programs fast.
@T_BONE_WALKER Again, pensions are earned after serving for 20 years. Secondly EVERYONE must put into SS. The only exceptions are those that obtained their job prior to 1983. Oh and their healthcare isn't free.
 @DeadRabitz As for health care, I should add that members of Congress have access to the attending physician of Congress, that's a doctor who is there in the Capitol. They pay a couple of hundred dollars a year and have access to some preventive care. They get their flu shots there. And if there's an emergency, they tend to go to the doctor there on the Capitol for some of their preventive stuff.
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Do you get coverage like that at work?
@T_BONE_WALKER Yes.
@T_BONE_WALKER Yes, I do have coverage like that. Oh and I don't pay a dime for it.
 @DeadRabitz Again, you're wrong rabbit.
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Members of Congress are eligible for a pension at age 62 if they have completed at least five years of service. They are eligible for a pension at age 50 if they have completed 20 years of service, or at any age after completing 25 years of service. The amount of the pension depends on years of service and the average of the highest three years of salary. By law, the starting amount of a memberâs retirement annuity may not exceed 80 percent of his or her final salary.
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These are the pensions that should be cancelled as outlined correctly in my post.
@T_BONE_WALKER @DeadRabitz For Pete's sake, stop talking about things you don't understand. Members of congress and other federal employees become VESTED at 5 years. This meas they can receive something at the age of retirement. The payout is based on years of service and amount invested and when you start receiving benefits.
 @T_BONE_WALKER And if you don't get the job done, you DON"T get paid.
I say that congress do zero nada zilich nothing lets go over the cliff Obama drove us here at beak neck speed. Time to pay the piper! Every one will get hurt every one will suffer. It is what is called social eqaulity. I say it is time we not fall over the cliff but we jump in to the abyss. reset the whole system.
 @wynooheeman Lets pay for those two unfunded ten year long wars. How? You ask the taxpayers to pay. You don't give tax cuts.
@rockguy Dude you are stoned Bush was in office how long? eight years when did we invade Iraq? 2003 that is six years under Bush for Iraq, then Afghanistan was eight years under bush. hmm the rest of the time who was president? OH yeah that would be Obama! and what is his roll? Commander in Chief of all armed forces. and what could he have done? Pulled out day one! But no he kept the wars going and borrowed the money from china. So if your going to use that argument get a grip. Plus the first two years he could have ended any tax cuts but no he did nothing. so your point is moot. He owns this mess lock stock and barrel.
@david davey I was not discussing any of that in any of my posts.
@the unvarnished truth So because the dems had control and we use that term lightly the can magically turn around decades of poor policy? Now I know you're crazy.
 @flyskiwindsurfÂ
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How was the tiny country of Vietnam a threat to the USA? What freedoms did they take away from Americans then or now?
@wynooheeman What the heck are you even posting about? I was posting about the U.S. exodus from Vietnam. Look that up you loony boy you.
@wynooheeman Wow loony boy. You are just so delirious that you donât even know when a new congress is even sworn in. Plus you obviously donât know how many it takes to override a filibuster. And you need to actually figure out how many times that the repugs used the filibuster. Jeez. Get a clue. Or two. Or something. Or just look it up. Jeez again.
@flyskiwindsurf you need to go and learn history we pulled out of Vietnam in 1973 we left it to the the south to fight their own war which they lost in 1975. were were not there for two years.
@wynooheeman Yeah you would like Iraq and Afghanistan to look like the last months that we were in Vietnam wouldnât you? And the rest of your post is obviously just more delirium from the loony boy. Obviously. Go figure.
@flyskiwindsurf 2006 to 2010 Congress and the senate were controlled by the democrat party veto over ride was on the democrat side unable to have a filibuster in the senate till 2010 You need to learn your history.
@Funky-Munky You live in a fantasy world. The founding fathers made this government to be in grid lock. This is how it is to work. Do nothing . Nothing gets done money is not spent.
@the unvarnished truth You obviously donât know what in charge really means do you? Obviously. Or you donât know the difference between 2 years and a few months. Either way. Obviously.
 @wynooheeman How about placing the blame where it belongs? The inaction of Congress since Bush Jr. was in office would be an excellent point of reference.
OMG - Bush has done it again! Â Thank God that the present people we have elected have no responsibility to do anything. Â Four more years of blaming Bush - and not dealing with the problems (just get in AF1 and leave the country for a few days if the questions are too tough). Â
Thanks to Bush and his Republican party driving our country and economy to the ground,
now,we,all young and old folks have to pay for that shxx !
@scychan  Where is that Bush anyway--has he gone underground? Oh, he's painting.
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 @the unvarnished truth Well.Who made this country broke overnight ?
It was your stupid buddy Bush ! Who sent our troops to harms way ?
It was your stupid buddy Bush ! He emptied our Ft.Knox before his first
two years buddy,don't you people know !?
@the unvarnished truth Well if its that bad then...here's the door. I would rather you just leave since all you do is whine and cry but don't do a darn to make things better.
@scychan um dude legal pot is dec 6th put down the bong! Bush has not been in office for the past four years. The first two we ran by 100% democrats they had the chance to fix it then now pay the piper! Time for the lazy arse 47% to pay! to suffer to lose there free stuff.
@wynooheeman bwahahahaâ¦â¦ â100% democratsâ? I canât even say what that statement makes you. Well except that you are still so delusional and delirious that you are now just embarrassing yourself. And you should know what that makes you. An a**.