Don't be fooled by January pay - higher taxes loom
WASHINGTON (AP) - Workers probably won't feel the full brunt of next year's tax increases in their January paychecks, but don't be fooled by the temporary reprieve.
No matter what Congress does to address the year-end fiscal cliff, it's already too late for employers to accurately withhold income taxes from January paychecks, unless all the current tax rates remain unchanged, which is an unlikely scenario.
Social Security payroll taxes are set to increase on Jan. 1, so workers should immediately feel the squeeze of a 2 percent cut in their take-home pay. But as talks drag on over how to address other year-end tax increases, the Internal Revenue Service has delayed releasing income tax withholding tables for 2013.
As a result, employers are planning to withhold income taxes at the 2012 rates, at least for the first one or two paychecks of the year, said Michael O'Toole of the American Payroll Association.
If employers don't withhold enough taxes in January, they will have to withhold even more taxes later in the year to make up the difference. Otherwise, taxpayers could get hit with big tax bills, and possibly penalties, when they file their 2013 returns.
The tax increases could be steep. If Congress fails to act, workers at every income level face significant tax increases next year as part of the year-end "fiscal cliff."
A taxpayer making between $50,000 and $75,000 would get an average tax increase of $2,400, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group. If the worker is paid every two weeks, that's about $92 a paycheck, on average.
Someone making between $75,000 and $100,000 would get a tax increase averaging nearly $3,700. If the worker is paid every two weeks, that's about $142 a paycheck.
O'Toole said it would take most employers two weeks to four weeks to update their payroll systems, once new tax withholding tables are released. For some small businesses, it could take longer.
"Employers can't really just come up with withholding tables on their own, depending on what the rates are," O'Toole said. "The smaller companies that do not use a payroll processing service probably would have more problems than anyone else."
On Friday, the IRS said it plans to issue guidance by the end the year, though it won't be early enough to affect paychecks in early January.
"We are aware that employers have questions with respect to 2013 withholding," the agency said in a written statement. "Since Congress is still considering changes to the tax law, we continue to closely monitor the situation. We intend to issue guidance by the end of the year on appropriate withholding for 2013."
About three-quarters of taxpayers got tax refunds this year, averaging $2,707, according to the IRS. That gives most taxpayers some leeway to manage their income tax withholding. However, many people rely on tax refunds to pay bills or make major purchases.
"The reality is, the vast majority of Americans do live paycheck to paycheck and that tax refund is their most significant payday of the year," said Bob Meighan, vice president of TurboTax, an online tax preparation service.
Most of the expiring tax breaks were first enacted under President George W. Bush and extended under President Barack Obama. Obama campaigned for re-election on extending the tax cuts on incomes below $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for married couples. Obama would let the tax cuts expire on incomes above those amounts.
In negotiations with House Speaker John Boehner, Obama offered to raise the income threshold, limiting tax increases to those making more than $400,000. Boehner, who has argued for years that the tax cuts should be made permanent for everyone, responded by trying to push a bill through the House that would have let many of the tax cuts expire on incomes above $1 million.
Many Republicans revolted and Boehner, R-Ohio, shelved the bill, sending lawmakers home for the Christmas holiday and leaving the outcome of talks in doubt as the new year approaches.
If Congress and the White House cannot reach a deal, income tax rates would go up, estate taxes and investment taxes would increase and the alternative minimum tax would hit millions of middle-income people. A temporary payroll tax cut that has benefited nearly every wage earner in 2011 and 2012 expires, costing the average family an additional $1,000 a year by itself.
In addition, dozens of other tax breaks for businesses and individuals that are routinely renewed each year already expired at the end of 2011. Congress was expected to renew many of them by January, so taxpayers could still claim them on their 2012 tax returns.
If Congress doesn't act on those tax cuts, businesses would lose a popular tax credit for research and development as well as generous tax breaks for investing in new plants and equipment. Individuals would lose federal tax breaks for paying local sales taxes, buying energy efficient appliances and using mass transit.
In all, taxes would go up by about $536 billion next year.
No matter what Congress does to address the year-end fiscal cliff, it's already too late for employers to accurately withhold income taxes from January paychecks, unless all the current tax rates remain unchanged, which is an unlikely scenario.
Social Security payroll taxes are set to increase on Jan. 1, so workers should immediately feel the squeeze of a 2 percent cut in their take-home pay. But as talks drag on over how to address other year-end tax increases, the Internal Revenue Service has delayed releasing income tax withholding tables for 2013.
As a result, employers are planning to withhold income taxes at the 2012 rates, at least for the first one or two paychecks of the year, said Michael O'Toole of the American Payroll Association.
If employers don't withhold enough taxes in January, they will have to withhold even more taxes later in the year to make up the difference. Otherwise, taxpayers could get hit with big tax bills, and possibly penalties, when they file their 2013 returns.
The tax increases could be steep. If Congress fails to act, workers at every income level face significant tax increases next year as part of the year-end "fiscal cliff."
A taxpayer making between $50,000 and $75,000 would get an average tax increase of $2,400, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group. If the worker is paid every two weeks, that's about $92 a paycheck, on average.
Someone making between $75,000 and $100,000 would get a tax increase averaging nearly $3,700. If the worker is paid every two weeks, that's about $142 a paycheck.
O'Toole said it would take most employers two weeks to four weeks to update their payroll systems, once new tax withholding tables are released. For some small businesses, it could take longer.
"Employers can't really just come up with withholding tables on their own, depending on what the rates are," O'Toole said. "The smaller companies that do not use a payroll processing service probably would have more problems than anyone else."
On Friday, the IRS said it plans to issue guidance by the end the year, though it won't be early enough to affect paychecks in early January.
"We are aware that employers have questions with respect to 2013 withholding," the agency said in a written statement. "Since Congress is still considering changes to the tax law, we continue to closely monitor the situation. We intend to issue guidance by the end of the year on appropriate withholding for 2013."
About three-quarters of taxpayers got tax refunds this year, averaging $2,707, according to the IRS. That gives most taxpayers some leeway to manage their income tax withholding. However, many people rely on tax refunds to pay bills or make major purchases.
"The reality is, the vast majority of Americans do live paycheck to paycheck and that tax refund is their most significant payday of the year," said Bob Meighan, vice president of TurboTax, an online tax preparation service.
Most of the expiring tax breaks were first enacted under President George W. Bush and extended under President Barack Obama. Obama campaigned for re-election on extending the tax cuts on incomes below $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for married couples. Obama would let the tax cuts expire on incomes above those amounts.
In negotiations with House Speaker John Boehner, Obama offered to raise the income threshold, limiting tax increases to those making more than $400,000. Boehner, who has argued for years that the tax cuts should be made permanent for everyone, responded by trying to push a bill through the House that would have let many of the tax cuts expire on incomes above $1 million.
Many Republicans revolted and Boehner, R-Ohio, shelved the bill, sending lawmakers home for the Christmas holiday and leaving the outcome of talks in doubt as the new year approaches.
If Congress and the White House cannot reach a deal, income tax rates would go up, estate taxes and investment taxes would increase and the alternative minimum tax would hit millions of middle-income people. A temporary payroll tax cut that has benefited nearly every wage earner in 2011 and 2012 expires, costing the average family an additional $1,000 a year by itself.
In addition, dozens of other tax breaks for businesses and individuals that are routinely renewed each year already expired at the end of 2011. Congress was expected to renew many of them by January, so taxpayers could still claim them on their 2012 tax returns.
If Congress doesn't act on those tax cuts, businesses would lose a popular tax credit for research and development as well as generous tax breaks for investing in new plants and equipment. Individuals would lose federal tax breaks for paying local sales taxes, buying energy efficient appliances and using mass transit.
In all, taxes would go up by about $536 billion next year.
With what's happening in this country right now it wouldn't seem to make any difference who's to blame Democrats/Republican, left or right, conservative or liberal, the bottom line is that if these politicians don't start working together to fix what's wrong they could very easily find that they will end up with nothing either. It's the working man/woman who moves this country forward and without that nothing moves. It's the working people who made this country great not the politicians.
Blah blah blah blah blah a bunch of comments from people who don't understand math.
And yet millionaires will see no increase. Well done Congress, well done.
Why doesn't the Three Branches of Government cut their pay, benefits and increased size to show "we the people" all will feel the burden of their collective failures?
 @Funky-Munky I just loved when Senator Patricia Murray voted to Tax our Social Security Benefits a few years back, that's really looking out for us
All I hear is the media blaming the GOP for this "largest tax hike in US history". This tax hike really belongs right in the middle of Obumblers desk because that's where it came from, and just wait until your FREE health care kicks in.
 @lmdk2 Huh?  Try research and honesty.Â
Taxes wont amount to anything compared to the rise in cost of our utility bills and other unforeseen costs after the EPA implements its new regulations. Ohhh yeah and our rise in cost for health care, GET READY the government figures it can take from you if they supply a equivalent service.
Well, I hope the people enjoy this because the majority has spoken and this is what we are getting. Hosed! EVERYONE pays the piper. A few more years and we will all be working for nothing except to cover the tax bills. Forget about "Hope" because hope won't fill the piggy bank. The majority vote has spoken.
I'll be upping my 401K deduction by another 10%. At least there will be less taxable income that way.
 @Shelly Only a certain percentage can used to reduce taxable income. They are looking at your 402k's too roll it into a great government scheme
 @Ronn  @Shelly In theory true (that only a certain percentage can be put into 401(k)), but most people do not contribute anywhere near the maximum they can to their 401(k).  This is not a nation of savers anymore.  (Coming from a finance person.)
Taxes are going up in January. The amounts are uncertain but they are for Obama Care. The current arguments over taxes going up is so Progressives can blame Republicans for the increase because of Obama care.
@Maynard G Krebbs There is no free lunch for the republican or democrat. the ye should be on the national debt as everyhting lands there...OB Care, wars, etc...
Where else can you get hired to do a job...fail...everytime we turn around...and keep getting re-elected (hired) to do the job you have failed at for years.
The GOP have put themselves in an epic mess with this Plan B joke. They now have less than zero leverage. They are the national laughingstock. A very large majority of the country now thinks they are "out of control and extreme." They just got walloped in the election. And with the tax cuts set to expire the laws are rigged against them as well.
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There is only one person who can come to the rescue of the Republican Party now,  Barack Obama. And he will. Obama is dying to do the Great Bargain. He will do it at any and all costs. In fact, he actively wants to cut Social Security and Medicare because he has offered it up time and again. He can't wait for that pat on the back from the establishment when they finally call him bipartisan, above party politics, and a real statesman for screwing over his own voters (Again and again and again), the same voters that re-elected him to protect SSI and Medicare. This is by far his greatest wish.
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You watch, the GOP has zero leverage now and Obama will certainly cave like Obama always caves. He is the best right winger we've ever elected. Right now Obama has the ability and the leverage to get everything he said he wouldn't budge on but, he will lay down like every other time he had them over the barrel. If I am wrong, I'll eat crow forever and never show my face here again but I know I am right.
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I'll gladly eat crow if you dems agree that after he screws you this time, you finally acknowledge the corporatist for what he is and what he has done the the citizens and promise to get into the streets and retake the benefits you've worked and paid for.
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Agree or not, you will see that you've been had yet again.
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This is the same as it was during his first two years and had every opportunity to restore everything that had been stolen from the middle class, Close Gitmo, ban Lobbyists, Card check recognition, single payer, hold those responsible for financial crisis, blah, blah, etc etc the song is the same just now its taxing everything over 250k maintaining SSI and Medicare.
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There now is no reason whatsoever for him to give in in any to what they want but, he will, sure as I sit here.
 @T_BONE_WALKER I find it interesting that conservatives see him as so very far to the left, but many of those on the left see him and nothing but a R in liberal cloths and corporatist sell-out. The only way that make ANY kind of sense is if his constant generic platitudes and lack or every really taking a hard stand on ANYTHING where the rubber meets the road, combined with an amazing ineptitude to really DO anything on his own (allowing him to claim credit for good things, and deflect blame for bad) has turned him into a Rorschach test for both sides. Both the far left and far right see what they fear most in leaders.
 @RN1 Good Post.
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First, in my estimation from witnessing US citizens and their responses to issues, I'd say the US doesn't have a real left and only has 4 different levels of right winger. Tea, extreme (Libertarian kind of but, attempts to force beliefs on others, authoritarian), a very few true old time conservatives (That I like to chat with), and what you (and everyone else) call the US left which sits way to the right of any other left in the world. With everyone sitting to one side its easy to see how we fell over so completely in '06 and ruined this country from what it was when I was young. BTW, I am a leftist so I am probably speaking chinese while you only understand "English".
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He has more intellect then most in DC and knows how to play the US "left". He played them for 3 years before his first election and won and within the first few days proved he was a right winger. The "left" certainly wouldnt have let wall street off the hook, let alone bail them out but, Obama wanted to "Look ahead and not back" instead of prosecuting the criminals, then he hired 11 employees from Goldman Sachs for his administration starting with Rahm Emanuel.
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He willfully and knowingly violated 200 years of contract law when he excluded the senior bond holders of GM from liquidating their own property at GM and then thought to cut the wages of GM workers in his ill-conceived bailout there, finishing what Geo Bush started. The left couldn't have done that to workers for the following reasons.
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It doesn't take much in the thought process to imagine that Ford and Chrysler would never sign for anything resembling an increase over GM's newly attained economic package at that point and demanded the same sub standard agreements and won them without bankruptcy or a strike. Its worth noting that Canadian auto workers were also forced into a sub standard deal because of this dirty trick albeit not nearly as draconian as the US version.How do wage cuts ever stimulate a consumer based economy?
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He bailed out the insurance industry (AIG) and the corrupt financial sector at the working classes expense, he never tried to close Gitmo as promised, not one regulation has been put in place to protect the gulf from future spills from BP that left 11 families without bread winners, fathers, uncles, and grandfathers,nor had the damages cap of 75 million been raised last I looked, there are 29 fatherless families running around due to the criminal behavior at the upper branch Massey mine that had over 700 safety violations the day those men were murdered and no new regulation or protection for families is forthcoming, he has kept and increased every single right wing policy of Geo Bush and added inhumane measures to most of them. The US torture policy that had begun with Bush was a big deal for Obama and he "could not tolerate" the US becoming a torture country but has been instead, increased by him to include a new facility at Bagrhan with 120+ new prisoners being beaten daily. he violates law every time a drone violates another country's airspace. His drones have killed hundreds of innocent families that he refers to as collateral damage. If you called Geo Bush a war criminal, you MUST call Obama a war criminal or you become as corrupt as him. Now he wants to attack Iran for oil and has committed violations of international law and acts of war including the murder of Iranian scientists because of US "nuke concerns" while the US is never in compliance with the treaty it signed and Iran is. Even if Iran is building a bomb, the treaty doesn't provide standing for us to do anything about it anyway. Even if we were afraid of them someday getting a bomb, N Korea has bombs right NOW, threatens us and our allies with them everyday, launches tests when they want and we sit on our hands. That seem peculiar to you also?
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He did most of this in only his first week while we watched rabid right wingers calling him a "Socialist". He hasn't done anything, anywhere for one US working family, its all been for US corporations and any conservative should of recognized that 4 years ago. He uttered single payer during the campaign and then gives the US insurance industry 32 million new paying customers and calls it health care. It was a present. He has raised 1.4 billion dollars for campaigning, does anyone imagine that money came from workers?
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He has Eric Holder over there at the justice dept giving wall street the green light to a complete lack of law or accountability by doing things like letting Jon Corzine walk around a freeman after stealing 1.6 Billion Dollars from the personal accounts of MF Global clients. This happened over a year ago and still no charges, supeonas, indictments, or anything, just victims.
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Can anybody anywhere imagine Karl Marx doing anything like Obama has done to foreign or domestic families? Can anyone alive ever imagine that the States would have participated in what it has done under bush and worse, what we could have done under Obama but chose not to?
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These are but a few items from his earliest days and it would take 4 years to write the rest. I keep calling him on his corporatism but the US "left" never notices while Trumka stands and cheers for this loser.
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We desparately need a strong left in this country to protect our kid's futures, they stand no chance now nor is there even a pathway for them to gain a foothold in this mess were leaving them.
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He will cave again for the corporations and provide them with privatized SSI and Medicare or, at least the in roads to get there, because the rich cant touch them while they are a tax. They are the last 2 piles of money left in this raped land and the rich are coming to get them also.
 @RN1 Translation????? Teabagging idiot!
 @T_BONE_WALKER Interesting read you posted there. The one-dimensional political spectrum we normally use doesn't seem to do the situation justice. I think perhaps if we used a 2D political plane like a Nolan Chart or a Pournelle Chart, we could put Obama as a self-centered crony fascist. Not really out for the little guy, just uses the rhetoric and trappings of fighting for him, while having a main goal extracting and controlling the wealth of private corporations, and the wealthy, via regulation, tax law, and legal entanglements.... His goal isn't solutions, but dependance on government rules and forbearance and "waivers" and by being deliberately unpredictable in order to sow distrust and encourage "favor-seeking."
Don't forget about the well hidden Obamacare hike in health care cost. Every employer who provides healthcare for an employee must pay 163.00 for each covered employee. And now that healthcare is now considered income your total healthcare provided is now taxed. so if your health care cost 5 K a year, you have to pay taxes on that 5 K additional income. What a deal we got from Obamacare.
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Lastly Doctors are pulling out of provideing services to medicare and medicade. Its not cost effective to provide services when the goverment is only paying 50% back. You can thank that Moron Pelosi that said, "pass the bill you don't need to read it".
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Surely easier to just say no healthcare to the employee, and pay the 600 penalty. saves many thousand. ITs already happening and your going to have go with it, cause your politicians are total losers in DC.
 @Ringmaster2000 "Well hidden" cost increases my ache'n arse. I got a note from my insurer that our policy cost was increasing more than 35% next year, and our coverage wasn't going to change in any significant way.
 @RN1  @Ringmaster2000 AND you're going to pay taxes on it on top of the 35%. What a deal. Now lets see the media blame that on the GOP.
The federal govt is mandated to have an annual budget. Â The Senate has not offered a budget in well over 3 years, voted down the White House budgets and has refused to even debate the budgets sent from the House, so here we are facing a "fiscal cliff."
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Harry Reid: Â Check your In Box. Â
You're right but the media gives the Senate a pass. Everyone points the finger at the house GOP but Mr Reid is the biggest road block in the entire equation and yet the same useless politicians keep getting voted in over and over. At some point the arrogance from them needs to be squashed.
@Opus8no5 To be clear the house hasn't sent a budget to the senate. That is what the Speaker was trying to do last week but he failed to do so when he pulled the bill because he didn't have the votes to pass it.
 @Justaguy  @Opus8no5Â
No, the House has sent a budget to the Senate each of the past 3 years, where they are gathering dust. Â
The process is fairly simple budgets are set by the legislative branch and then approved by the executive branch.
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It seems to me that these politicians are playing a game because they are afraid to put their names on record.
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President Bush said it best when he was in office and the democrats controlled congress.
âPass you budget so I can veto it and we can move forwardâ
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I have a hard time blaming the president if he doesnât have a bill in front of him. I have a hard time blaming Harry Reid when the house hasnât passed a bill and moved it to the Senate. I even have a hard time blaming the members of the House because the speaker pulled the bill from the agenda. If Speaker Boenher truly believes in his proposals he should have let the house vote on it so we could have a definitive list of who the true obstructionists are.
 @Justaguy The Senate hasn't passed a budget to send to the house or conference committee in more than three years.
But wait, there's more! Â Obamacare costs and penalties take effect in 2013. Â It remains to be seen how many people who currently have medical benefits through their employers will lose those benefits because it is cheaper for their employers to pay the penalty rather than provide the benefits. Â
Congress plays and the poor working stiff pays.Â
Simplify the tax code. Put it all on sales tax. If you buy nothing you pay no tax. Why do we need to have 100,000 rules to pay taxes, it's already painful enough.
The fiscal cliff puts the brakes on the 2% theft from Social Security. Increases taxes on most everyone and cuts spending. When we borrow 42 cents for every dollar we spend explain how going over the cliff is a bad idea...
 @al_wa It is when the people who earn the least are going to take the greatest hit.
The rich will not see as much of a hit from the 2% as the rest of the working Americans - they are above the cutoff anyway.
The poor don't get the same tax write offs as the rich - I can't name one person I know who gets to claim their Lear jet as a "business expense", or the cozy 1.75M "cabin" in the woods as a mortgage deduction.
 @OrcasThunder Jabber all you want but if you think borrowing 42% of your income to support your spending habits you are one fuzzy thinker.
First we heard the Bush Tax Cuts only help the rich. Now we are being told the poor will be hurt and the rich not if they expire. The US people have gone crazy.
@OrcasThunder  Orcas is right on the money. Four hundred dollars per month is the price I pay for groceries. OUCH. The wealthy won't even notice.
 @OrcasThunder  @al_wa Which is why I support the FairTax proposal, which means that the very low income folks pay no taxes, and there are no loop-holes to abuse higher up in income levels, saving is always encouraged, and it gets the IRS out of your private life.
 @OrcasThunder  @al_wa Not to mention all of the hidden assets in off shore accounts.
Our whole political system should be completely ashamed about the mess America is in. They have made a mockery of America in front of the whole world stage as they bicker. This only proves that they are more concerned with their vanity then they are about the wellness of Americans. Both parties are just as corrupt and just as culpable.
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The United States of America is known to pull together in terrible times including our forming as we rebelled against a form of government that did not care about their citizens living in the new world. How bad will our lives get before we realize we are at the same point in history? We have been given the power of voting but our vote is less and less powerful in steering the direction of our country leaving us once again to have the feeling of taxation without representation.
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The citizens are nothing more than subjects of the ruling party now. They may not wear crowns but they definitely care more about their well beings then the voters who put them into their thrones. The voters are nothing but tools that they manipulate with the power of the wealthy behind them. They control the whole media making it impossible for the citizens to see the real ruling party now. Our government has spent the last 200 years taking apart the concept of what we fought for against the king of Britain. And the whole time the ruling party did this under the concept of democracy.
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We have lost our core freedoms that were guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. Every amendment in the original 10 have been severely limited or completely ignored except for the third, housing soldiers in private homes during peacetime. Now the government is once again going after what remains of the 2nd amendment. Once this one is gone we will once again be completely helpless against our ruling party. This is exactly what our government wants as America is reverted back to the 18th century, with the citizens unable to protest in any way.
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Yes, now our politicians are all away enjoying their holiday breaks leaving their subjects with no hope of a better end of year and absolutely dismal thoughts of the coming year. They don't care for their life will not change, in fact year over year from our beginning as a country the politicians life has only gotten better and better no mater the fate of the country.
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Happy New Year folks. At least the state of Washington and Colorado gained a limited freedom to get stoned and drunk on new years eve. Such progress we have made.
Obama won the popular vote by less than four million votes (3%) because almost half of our country has serious concerns about the socialist ideals he is peddling. Instead of acknowledging that, he has hit the ground running with the "I won so it's my way or the highway" mentality. This will likely be the state of our nation for the next four years. Higher taxes, mandated socialized healthcare, and a stagnant government collecting money without producing results. Congratulations Obama supporters! You got what you voted for. Don't come at me with the tired old Bush bashing defense because I didn't vote for him either; and in case you weren't aware - he no longer has any control.
 @SoTweetie "Obama won the popular vote by less than four million votes (3%) because almost half of our country has serious concerns about the socialist ideals he is peddling."
Actually, Obama won the popular vote by less than four million votes (3%) because over half of our country had serious concerns about the capitalistic Laissez-faire corporations are people crap that Romney was peddling.
 @OrcasThunder  @SoTweetie cute
 @SoTweetie How long are you guys going to whine? There's many other countries you and your minority ilk can move to. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
 @Tooby Roosday Nobody is going to run me out of my country. Please!Â
 @RN1  @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday "And I'd be OK with cutting much of that"
Really?
Would you accept less road money from the State - money that pays for the majority of maintenance of the roads - including pothole repair and snow plowing?
Perhaps we should save money by simply not plowing the passes during the winter...save a LOT of funding, Of course, there would be no shipping business to/from the East side and King County, no I-90 traffic needing food. gas and motels. Oh, you could float down the Columbia...
 @RN1 it's cool brother... I was just poking fun
 @SoTweetie  @Darn it!  @TruthinAdverts  @Tooby Roosday " I did not hear Obama go for 400"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-18/obama-counter-offer-raises-tax-hike-threshold-to-400-000.html
 @TruthinAdverts That two. "Also" as well. Tie-ping two flast to poof-reed. Too common a mistake for me to make. The points, grammar misuse aside, stand.
 @RN1 "too" my mathematically minded friend ; )
 @TruthinAdverts  @RN1  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday Truth..so you think that the east is taking from the west? How about if you quit consuming any food items that the eastern part of the state produces? Or anything else they produce? Don't consume anything that is produced in any of the "Red States" Don't forget, that is where the majority of the agriculture lies. There are a lot less people there than in the Socialist Republic of Seattle, and they really have no representation because it all goes to the SRS. Thank God I got out of that mess & will never go back!
And do you know WHY Greece has such high unemployment? TO MUCH GOVERNMENT. TO many taxes. To much regulation. TO much DEBT. The exact same place WE are headed.
 @RN1  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday It's not their money they are taking RN1... it's another counties... THAT's why I said welfare queens... because it fits! You can't just ignore it... or maybe you can ; )
 @SoTweetie Nobody is running you out of the country. But you sound so despondent over the results of the election you might be happier in another country. How about Spain or Greece with 26% unemployment rates. Or better yet Australia. Australia is right up your alley - a productive, progressive Socialist-Capitalist nation, with a comprehensive welfare sector while at the same time maintaining a free market economy with universal health care providing free, comprehensive and up-to-date health service to its population. Folks like you need to get a clue!
 @OrcasThunder  @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday I've got no problem with gay marriage, and think the pot legalization thing is fine. Won't do either one, but I don't care if you do. It's your life. It's all the regs that they enforce that *cost money we don't have* that I object to most.
 @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday Of course, to many on the left letting people keep their own money makes them "welfare queens." Tax less. Spend less. Regulate less. Let people succeed, or fail, on their own merits. If they do wrong (fraud, for example) then take them to court. don't bail them out - corporations OR people - if they do something stupid (like borrow more than they can afford).
 @SoTweetie  @Darn it!  @TruthinAdverts  @Tooby Roosday The Plan "B" was Boehner's $1M offer,,,
 @RN1  @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday "into a much freer country, thereby ruining it"
Yeah, right - like equal rights for all races, women and even gays...Like making public buildings accessable to ALL Americans, even those who are disabled due to military service. Like making corporations responsible for their actions as "people" (I love the BR ads where they claim to have "contributed" $B to clean up the Gulf).
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As to those who cry "there ought'a be a LAW", that applies to those who would deny the right of others to marry, or even control what happens to their own bodies.
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And I would be happy to leave the conservative alone...if they would actually grant that right to everyone else in this country, including those who hold different views than they do.
 @SoTweetie  @TruthinAdverts  @Tooby Roosday "and don't dwell on elections past."
And yet look at your opening statement in the post above..."because almost half of our country has serious concerns about the socialist ideals he is peddling"...sounds a lot like you are still fighting the past election...
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As to the "I won so it's my way or the highway" mentality, wasn't that exactly the mood the TP was in 2 years ago? Look at Mitch's promise to do nothing except make Obama a one term President...one of the very few any Republican actually kept.
 @RN1  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday and that makes it good for eastern Washington to have a bunch of conservative welfare states how? How can you possibly defend all this conservative "stop the welfare" chatter, when you guys are the biggest welfare queens of all?
 @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday More like "let's not let the Feds take a hunk of the state's money, skim off 5% for the DC region, and then give us some of it back along with a lot of strings attached forcing us to spend even MORE of our money in ways we would not choose to do for ourselves." Money within the state can be shifted around by the state legislature just fine. yes, a lot of tax revenue comes from the King Co area. A lot of food and energy comes from NOT King Co areas. But it's still much more "local" than the DC area. That is, in fact, why we HAVE a federal system.
 @RN1  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday RN... so let me get this right... "we'd not accept state money, except King County pays for our county, so we do". Kinda like that?
 @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday And I'd be OK with cutting much of that. So would a lot of those that live there, if the string and taxes that wind up going with it were cut, too. At least, that what the people I know who live there tell me.
 @RN1  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday and yet the most republican counties in our state take the most state money... far more than they put in. Classic welfare queens
 @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday Left alone. Not told what guns I can or can't buy. What health insurance I have to buy. What school my kids have to go to. What foods or medicines I can consume. What trees I can plant or cut in my yard. Which "needy" folks I have to pay for. You know, that sort of thing.
 @RN1  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday it's ironic you talk about these conservatives wanting to be "left alone", when the conservative red counties in eastern Washington consistently receive more state money than they put in, while King County pays in far more than it gets out. In otherwords, King County is subsidizing the eastern Washington conservatives... my gosh... those eastern Washington conservative counties ARE the welfare counties! How ironic.
 @oldster70  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday spoken like a guy on the losing side
 @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday That was not democracy, that was a rail job.
 @Darn it!  @TruthinAdverts  @Tooby Roosday I did not hear Obama go for 400. If that was the Plan B that was rejected then I think it should go through, at least temporarily. We don't have to be at each others necks to figure it out.
 @Darn it!  @SoTweetie  @TruthinAdverts  @Tooby Roosday But his "compromise" is stupid. It covers a couple DAYS worth of borrowing. It DOESN'T solve the problem! So saying "he's working with congress" is at best disingenuous, when his proposals are ones he KNOWS they won't pass, and his goal is to create problems in Congress for purely partisan person political gains,
 @TruthinAdverts  @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday The problem is this: there are a LOT of socialist "paradise" locations those on the left could have moved to, but rather than move, they imported the bad things into a much freer country, thereby ruining it. Sort of like a California who hates the high taxes, regulations, and corrupt political process, so they move to Idaho, try to elect leftist politicians, vote for higher taxes to fund services, ask for more regulations because "there ought'a be a LAW", and then wonder why the locals don't like when they complain about the wild animals in their back yards when they bout 5 acres in the country. Those on the left have a LOT of places to go where the laws they want are already in place. Not so with the conservatives who want to be left alone.
 @SoTweetie  @TruthinAdverts  @Tooby Roosday But he did compromise. He went to 400K. It was the repubs in the house who wouldn't compromise.
 @TruthinAdverts  @Tooby Roosday I congratulate Obama on his win and don't dwell on elections past. I support the way our country elects it's leaders. Obama and Democrats are acting as though 2% of the country is holding back progress when in reality 47% of people supported conservatives in Nov. That in mind, you would think he would at least slightly compromise with Republicans to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff. Higher taxes on those who earn a million each year or more is a fair compromise. Or 500K,even. He has not compromised at ALL here.Â
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Merry Cliffmas
 @SoTweetie  @Tooby Roosday the catch is tweetie... it's not just "your" country... it's ours... and if you are falling on the short side of the vote...that's how democracy works. Too bad, so sad.