Geithner: Ready to go over 'cliff' if necessary
WASHINGTON (AP) - Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Wednesday that the Obama administration is "absolutely" ready for the economy to go over the "fiscal cliff" rather than accept a budget deal that doesn't include higher tax rates for top earners.
Geithner said the administration thinks budget deficits are so large that they can't be closed without boosting tax rates on the highest-earning 2 percent of Americans. Most Republicans oppose higher rates for any taxpayers.
"There's no prospect in an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2 percent of the wealthiest Americans," Geithner said in an interview on CNBC.
Geithner's comments immediately drew fire from a top Republican senator.
"This is one of the most stunning and irresponsible statements I've heard in some time," said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah. "Going over the fiscal cliff will put our economy, jobs, people's paychecks and retirement at risk, but that is what the White House wants, according to Secretary Geithner, if they don't get their way."
The fiscal cliff refers to the tax increases and deep spending cuts that will take effect in January unless Congress and the White House reach a budget deal first.
In the interview, Geithner also said the administration would reject a budget plan that didn't include an increase in the federal borrowing limit. The current limit is expected to be reached either late this month or early next year.
"We are not prepared to have the American economy held hostage to periodic threats that Republicans will force the country to default on our obligations," Geithner said. "That would be a terrible thing for the financial security of the average American, for businesses, for confidence around the world and the United States."
Geithner said he still thinks progress is being made in the budget negotiations and that the outlines of an agreement are becoming clearer.
"They look inevitable," he said.
Geithner said the administration thinks budget deficits are so large that they can't be closed without boosting tax rates on the highest-earning 2 percent of Americans. Most Republicans oppose higher rates for any taxpayers.
"There's no prospect in an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2 percent of the wealthiest Americans," Geithner said in an interview on CNBC.
Geithner's comments immediately drew fire from a top Republican senator.
"This is one of the most stunning and irresponsible statements I've heard in some time," said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah. "Going over the fiscal cliff will put our economy, jobs, people's paychecks and retirement at risk, but that is what the White House wants, according to Secretary Geithner, if they don't get their way."
The fiscal cliff refers to the tax increases and deep spending cuts that will take effect in January unless Congress and the White House reach a budget deal first.
In the interview, Geithner also said the administration would reject a budget plan that didn't include an increase in the federal borrowing limit. The current limit is expected to be reached either late this month or early next year.
"We are not prepared to have the American economy held hostage to periodic threats that Republicans will force the country to default on our obligations," Geithner said. "That would be a terrible thing for the financial security of the average American, for businesses, for confidence around the world and the United States."
Geithner said he still thinks progress is being made in the budget negotiations and that the outlines of an agreement are becoming clearer.
"They look inevitable," he said.
Bill Clinton said it all at the convention.Even he couldn't have fixed what was handed too Obama in four years.
Increase the federal borrowing limit?  If I have a credit card, and it's maxed out, and I can't make the payments, do you think my credit card company would be stupid enough to raise my borrowing limit? That's how they got our economy into this mess to begin with. I say learn to live within their means. That's the only choice the rest of us have. I hope all of you that put this idiot back into office likes the change!
 @citizen kane Not quite.Â
If I go out and buy a luxury car (wars) on credit and the next day quit my job (tax cuts). I don't bother to look for another job (refuse to raise revenue). Then I use money from my IRA (Social Security) to pay for the car. I also use my credit cards to dine and drink daily at high dollar establishments and give huge tips (Congress). Bring on the cliff.
They made their bed, it's time to sleep in it libs. I hope EVERYONE's taxes go up. This is what you voted for, enjoy it.
So...  Senator McConnell proposed a floor vote on Obama's "proposal." Guess who blocked it? Harry Reid. That's tooo funny. Obstructionist, thy name be Scary Reid.  Guess they didn't want to extend the perfect game of no Democrats voting for Adjunct Professor Obama's Genius Budget!
Obama? Budget? Fiscal Responsibility? I'm not sure that Obama has ever been in a position professionally in which he was expected to "manage" anything. Let alone in a position where his decisions would have any sort of consequence. But hell - let's give him a shot at running the most important nation in the world ........ In all seriousness, Obama might mean well, but the guy doesn't have the qualifications to manage my local Taco Bell. The fact that he runs my country is extremely concerning to me. Â Â
It's sad no one is talking about (EUC) emergency unemployment compensation, possibly expiring for millions of people, state benefits run out after 26 weeks now, it is in congresses hands now to pass this, if they don't by the end of Dec it will be a fiscal nightmare to this country and really start another recession.Â
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 @the unvarnished truth  @hinterland (EUC) is not wasteful spending, it takes a lot longer now to find a job than 10-20 years ago, it's money back in the economy than no money at all. When your getting 300.00 a week to support your family and still buy basic things it's still money back into the economy, don't you get it?  You would rather have millions of family's lose that security and live on the streets, than extend it until they finally get a job in this slow economy.Â
@hinterland @the unvarnished truth Unfortunately, it appears that products and services that the unemployed could provide are often, (not always i.e. teachers, policemen. . ) not necessary at all. everyone i know is on a pretty tight budget and i for instance purchase very little "stuff" - we are taking care of what we have rather than buying new.  we take "stay cations" and not vacations. The jobs that are available are often low wage - and they unemployed will say that they can make more on unemployment.  So they don't take the menial jobs so those go to illegals or China - and the very people selling the goods made by Chinese are buying those same goods because they don't paid enough to buy American.   It is a cyle that is not going to be broken during this administration and likely never.Â
 @hinterland  @the unvarnished truth Somehow, folks tend to get focused about finding a job two weeks before the benefits run out. I'm not being judgmental, that's just the way it is. I can't count the times I have heard people say they would lose money if they took a job because it pays less than their UE.
This is Obama's economy  and he can't deny it!
America already went over the Fiscal Cliff..... Next year is the beginning of feeling the effects.....
In the second term and still whining about the previous administration. How about stepping up and taking some blame for spending more money than any president ever in the history of the U.S.?
@jelisized You donât know what the heck that you are even posting about.
 @flyskiwindsurf  @jelisized Why are you fighting so hard to keep the Bush tax cuts for the middle class.I thought you Dem's hated Bush.
@Tacobender50 Who says I am. You sure do a lot of assuming there bent one and you know what that makes of only you.
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@Wolfen Here we go with the name calling again........CHILD!!!! Get along, or go stand in a corner!!!! You are GOOD at name calling, and I am GOOD at laughing at you while you call names. *snicker*
@jelisized Most of the GOP/TP are obviously just a bunch of sheeple as explicitly shown by that pledge to Grover. Most of the GOP/TP just start baaaaaaaing nearly any time that Rush, Grover, Armey, or etc. say about anything or start nipping at their heels. Just look at you. Even you are just going through the motions and standard operating procedures and then just baaaaing about it.
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 @the unvarnished truth His fellow politicians probably didn't. The welfare wombats, illegals, gays, and the "gimme gimme gimme" crowd DID.
Here's a funny, and yet little known fact about rich people. They like money. A LOT. That's why they have so MUCH of it. Here's ANOTHER little known fact about rich people, the money they have amassed allows them to do ANYTHING they want, including avoiding prosecution. Anyone care to debate this? No? Good......because here's my next point. Do ANY of you think, for ONE second, that if Obama tries to take one extra dime from them to support his failures, they will ALLOW that? Not a chance. Their money is hidden, protected, and untouchable by our government. OURS however, is not. Let Obama tax away. He'll fail at THIS too. The rich will bail, what's left of the middle class will get so fed up with footing the bill that THEY will bail too. On their jobs, their houses, their belongings........I mean, if you really THINK about it, WHY in the world would someone want to bust their asses for their entire life.....only to have it all stolen by way of taxation, to pay for someone ELSE'S stuff? Welcome to the NEW America.
Take OBOZO with you Timmy. Hope it is a long drop.
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Special thanks to all the pin headed dolts that voted for Oh-bag-of-manure again, that will not be paying for his policies, will not pay taxes, already live on welfare or are students who have never supported a family.  You won't be screwed.
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Just us who work. We are totally hosed.
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Extra special thanks to all you illegal alien and dead voters, and the Demoncratic party that made sure you voted.
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Boo-bauch appeals to the clueless and that is pretty much what is left apparently.Â
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Anybody still confused why home schooling is so popular?  You actually learn history and consequences from dictators, not make it up.
Get ready for the  " OBAMA TAX HIKES" " OBAMA TAX HIKES"
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" OBAMA TAX HIKES"
If Liberal and Dem's hate Bush so much, why are they fighting so hard to keep the Bush tax cut portion for the middle class.You love Bush for something.
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If our taxes go up.
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Just think we can call them  "The Obama Tax hikes"Â
Hello! The only reason Odumma needs to raise these taxes is because he has spent this country into the sunset and wants to keep doing it. Listen, this is simple and this administration is nothing but a bunch of morons not to get it. When you and I don't have the money we can't just go steal it from someone else to keep supporting a spending problem. And if you have the ability to keep borrowing it and can't pay you will eventually go bankrupt. Obama's problem is he wants to deal with the deficit but also keep spending like there is no tomorrow. You can't do both unless you steal the money somewhere. He is wanting to do that from the 2%.
 @run4fun Must be freaking exciting to have only short-term memory and no knowledge whatever of anything older than your breakfast!
 @JLS1950  @run4fun What was your last thought JLSmartypants, a blast of methane? Insult and bring nothing to the table again??Â
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Hah, you are so above and effete, whilst others are so trite. Just make Obozo King.
 @pbs7mm I have a King. You ani't He, nor is Boehner, nor Obama either.
And what I say about short memories is true enough: it is the only reasonable explanation why Republicans keep trying to do the same things over and over again, fervently expecting a different outcome than all the other times. That or they are all just plain psychotic.
so what is your point? Under Obama has the deficit gotten smaller? No. Has he spent a ton of money? Yes. I would like to go on a spending spree and then tell my boss I need a big raise to pay for it because he has a ton of money in the bank. How would that go over? This is essentially what Obama wants to do. He spent a ton of money the United States did not have the past 4 years. And now he needs to pay for it and thinks the 2% top earners are a easy target for it. Ok, don't make dumb statements like the one you made above. Put some substance in it. Tell me where I am wrong with what I said above.
@JLS1950@run4fun
"Mr> JL1950, Hello, I am your Obamacare Patient Facilitation Monitor, Getov. Just a few questions, sir, before the doctor can see you about your churning stomach this week.
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(12 hours later)
...and the Social Security Number of your spouse, children and bank account numbers plus pin numbers.  Of course, all your information is extremely important to us and is of course, as secret as secret can be, although some people sometimes need a little "help" in getting with the program, specifically those folks with a Tea Party sticker or something on their vehicles. Oh, yes, please note all your vehicles and purchase price, including RVs, boats and such. Anyway, THOSE people have less than secret records.
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Oh, look at the time. It's 5 PM on Friday. Oh, well, please come back Monday morning at 8 and we'll be sure to have you seen by the Doctor by 3. Thanks for letting us choose Obamacare for you. Good day!"
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 @Wolfen I know my Messiah. Do you?
Well at least you will have Obamacare to help with that stomach of yours.
 @JLS1950  @run4fun Here we go with the name calling again........CHILDREN!!!! Get along, or go stand in a corner!!!! Dems are GOOD at name calling, and Repubs are GOOD at laughing at them while they call names. (until THIS year anyhow) lol. BOTH "parties" are JOKES. BIG FREAKIN JOKES!!! The hilarious part? The ONLY ones who don't think they are jokes, are the "partiers" themselves. The REST of us, are just hanging out, watching you destroy yourselves and this country. When that "fiscal cliff" is reached, and this country goes into a financial tailspin, YOU all are going to panic, and WE'LL all be laughing instead. "Party" on. Oh.......here's some Pepto Bismol. As long as you think Obama is the Messiah, you're gonna NEED it.
 @run4fun If some punk steals your classic car, runs it around for eight years without ever bothering to check the oil, the transmission fluid, the water/antifreeze or the air pressure in the tires - and then abandons it on the street when the transmission quits and the engine is making noises like it is about to throw a rod - whose responsibility is it that you have to spend nearly $10,000 t rebuild the engine and transmission, about $900 on new tires, another $850 to have the now-leaking radiator replaced, $580 to redo the brakes, and another $1,500 to replace the upholstery?
Bush drove the U.S. Economy straight into the ground while spending about $6 trillion on one utterly unnecessary war and another that he never prosecuted to completion and so let function like a sandpit - plus a bunch of "restructuring" called DHS which proved to destroy the function of its agencies - and then he spent another roughly $.3 trillion on band aids to try to keep the Ship of State from capsizing and sinking with himself tied to he helm before he could abandon it first to his ranch in Texas, then to Dallas, and then if necessary to his prepared "safe haven" presumably in Bahrain or Dubai. He left that Ship of State listing and taking on water faster than Niagra. Obama then spent about $3 trillion getting the hull patched, the water pumped back out, the engines of industry chugging to life again, and that pirate bin Laden who was sitting armed on the fantail, shot and buried at sea.
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AND IDIOTS LIKE YOU BLAME *OBAMA*??? The IDIOCY of Republipukes like you just churns my stomach!!!
@run4fun Most of that âton of moneyâ over the last four years or so was because of Obama putting the shrub_darth wars as well as their extremely overpriced (and shrub_darth lied about) Medicare Part D on budget after âFool me onceâ shrub and âdeficits donât matterâ and âItâs Hoover timeâ darth were keeping it all off budget and âhiddenâ but unfortunately still on the China credit card. Not to mention the interest on same. Additionally most of â09 was under the last shrub_darth and âgive me a lot of money but donât ask me where it is goingâ Paulson budget. Obviously. Go figure.
Obama does not intend to solve this problem, he wants to go over the cliff. He will then get the tax increases and defense cuts he wants. His only problem he can't go off to Hawaii when congress is still in Washington or can he?
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I find it interesting that Boehner is willing to remove deductions and other tax breaks the rich enjoy - saying that the rich "will pay more in taxes", all the while saying that to raise taxes on the rich will be "bad for the nation"...all along, the GOP has insisted that taking the rates for the upper 2% will "not provide enough to solve the problems", and yet now they say that in combination with cuts these $800 B in tax increases WILL do the job? Aren't they stepping on their own arguments?
Face it, Boehner - your side lost...the tax cuts were issue one for the election, and the people voted in favor of tax cuts for the rich...period. All you do by standing your ground is setting your party up for a massive disaster.
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 @the unvarnished truth "but the lazy slobs didn't want to take that chance."
Oh, get real...I KNOW a lot of Republicans - and they are neither lazy nor slobs.
Misguided...perhaps...
 @the unvarnished truth "We voted for freedom."
Yeah - you and Jake Featherston...
 @the unvarnished truth 47% is the amount of the brain that the very most intelligent Republican actually uses. That's why it sticks in their memory so firmly.
There must be something like blitverts that Murdoch inserts into Fox "News" programming...
 @the unvarnished truth  @OrcasThunder "The lazy slobs"?  Responses like this spell the extinction of the Grand Obstructionist Party (GOP).  47% of Americans are NOT "slobs" looking for welfare, EBT, EITC, handouts, mooching, or are bums. Appalling that there are some in this country that think such nonsense. FAUX news must be your news source at home.Â
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 @the unvarnished truth Those dictatorship also have their very wealthy people. You think dictatorships only spring up in poor countries? Poor people do not choose to support dictatorships: dictatorships ONLY happen when there relatively few people controlling almost all of the wealth, a large number of very poor people, and the wealthy are trying desperately to keep all the wealth that they have.
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Sound familiar to you?
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This was the condition in 1930's Germany: wealthy right-wing industrialists living among destitute masses after WW-I felt threatened by "communists" and so banded together to elect what they thought would be a "token socialist" that they felt they could control to do their bidding to keep the wretched masses in line. Hitler's people seized control of all power and thus most wealth, and they were not about to share with ANYBODY unless there was substantial incentive such as special knowledge, connections, offshore wealth, etc. That is why Hitler even left the Jews in the German Navy alone for years: they were too valuable as flag officers there.
Same thing really happened in the Russian Revolution and subsequent civil war: once the Bolsheviks grabbed all the wealth of the monarchy and the wealthy elite, they had no interest whatever in actually easing the lives of the masses. The famine or 1921 was the direct result, and was as much as anything else really a state-sponsored "purge" of poor populations in the affected areas: the Party Apparatchiks and the Nomenclatura simply lived off whatever they could rob from the destitute - who then "conveniently" died and were "not a problem" anymore.
Same thing in many decolonized African nations including Zimbabwe: as soon as a few factions gained control of regional wealth, they concentrated it, creating regional or tribal warlords who fought each other to further concentrate wealth and power into a smaller and smaller elite.Â
Same also in China: Mao was merely the most successful, powerful and wealthiest of an entire class of Chinese warlords, and who - although making many public show claims for communist sharing - actually continued to behave as a warlord despot to the very moment he died.
The presence of wealthy people in a society DOES NOT protect against despotism and dictatorship: the lack of a strong, successful and politically-controlling working middle class and development of a destitute class of working poor actually GUARANTEES formation of a dictatorship to "protect" the stolen riches and perquisites of the uber-wealthy!
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 @OrcasThunder  @run4fun "Black whole?" I think I meant Black Hole but maybe not...
 @OrcasThunder  @run4fun Although your accusation of incompetence or dereliction by your State-managed Pension... interesting.
 @OrcasThunder  @run4fun The only money you should morally be able to accept is whatever you contributed plus whatever interest would have been accrued in Government Bonds. Otherwise, it's the Exxons and Microsofts and BPs and Coca Colas that pay it. It's not the same as SS where the money goes into a black whole and is propped up by new suckers...er... contributors. PERS money is actually invested and you are the beneficiary, like it or not.
Although I am sure my pointing this out is pointless and you will continue apace at your daily railing against "The Man" while receiving a check from him at the beginning of each month.
 @Getov Mylon  @run4fun Actually, the pension is MY money - the State has been in arrears on their contribution for decades.
 @OrcasThunder  @run4fun Sez the man whose  DOT pension is paid through the blood profits of the Washington State PERS. Give the money back, Whale Boy.
 @OrcasThunder  @run4fun I never got shafted by anyone Though you would probably point out that being laid off from a public company equates to being shafted, as if I'm owed something. Situations changed - Chess pieces moved around -  I adapted, adjusted, and came out on top. I can get laid off & not even flinch for at least 3 years. Quit being a one-trick-pony victim.
Hmmm, the answer is 'D' none of the above.
 @run4fun "So just because there are people that know how to invest and grow their money, or because they know how to run a good business, or because they are extremely gifted in their profession and these people happen to make and have a lot of money"
A question, if i may...are you one of these, or are you struggling to keep the job you have, fighting to pay the bills and put food on the table in that house that has dropped 32% in value? Are you one of those, or have you been shafted by them when you lost the good paying job - because they needed to pay their senior staff multi-mullion $ bonuses? Are you one of these who stood in front of the employees and swore that the company stock was sound, and in fact told them to buy more shares with their retirement money - at the same time you were selling the shares because you KNEW the company was going down? And then ran behind your gated walls when the company became burnt toast - loaded down with the self-awarded bonuses for "productivity"? Are you one of those who made bad loans you knew would never be paid off, then sold them at a profit, who invested in risky schemes with unrealistic ROI's, and got paid bonuses when you were fired, for making so much money for the company - bonuses that came out of the US tax dollars the bank was "too big to fail"? Is that the kind of rich person you worship, who "know how to invest and grow their money"?
Or are you one of the many who got shafted like the rest of us - and still buy into those "Arbeit Macht Frei" slogans of the Masters?
How much longer will you have to wait before they hand you the HOLY golden parachute...made in Bangladesh by 13 year old sweatshop workers?
So just because there are people that know how to invest and grow their money, or because they know how to run a good business, or because they are extremely gifted in their profession and these people happen to make and have a lot of money then they should be targeted to pay a lot more taxes (percentage-wise) than someone who is none of the above? Really? Tell me why that is ok.
 @run4fun Well, we can see that you are one in favor 'that government of the RICH, by the RICH, for the RICH, shall not perish from the earth.'
Obama won only because he got the votes from the groups that are typically low end financially and/or depending on all the governement handouts. And then sure, he got votes from middle class people he suckered into believing that he really had their backs. Obama will bankrupt this country. Â