Giffords, Kelly launch gun control lobbying effort
TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) - Former U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and her husband launched a political action committee aimed at curbing gun violence on Tuesday, the second anniversary of the Tucson shooting that killed six people and left her critically injured.
Giffords and Mark Kelly wrote in an op-ed published in USA Today that their Americans for Responsible Solutions initiative would help raise money to support greater gun control efforts.
"Achieving reforms to reduce gun violence and prevent mass shootings will mean matching gun lobbyists in their reach and resources," they wrote in the column.
They said that it will "raise funds necessary to balance the influence of the gun lobby."
The move was hinted at in Kelly's recent comments that he and Giffords want to become a prominent voice for gun control efforts.
The couple last week visited Newtown, Conn., where a gunman opened fire in an elementary school, killing 20 children and six adults in December. They also met with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a gun control advocate.
The couple was expected to discuss the initiative in an interview airing Tuesday on ABC News. The network offered a preview of the interview Monday and during "Good Morning America" on Tuesday. Kelly described a meeting with a father of a Connecticut victim in which he "just about lost it" after the parent showed him a picture of his child.
When asked by Diane Sawyer about when such violence happens to school children, Giffords responded: "Enough."
In the op-ed piece, Kelly and Giffords discussed what they deem lawmakers' inaction on curbing gun violence.
"In response to a horrific series of shootings that has sown terror in our communities, victimized tens of thousands of Americans, and left one of its own bleeding and near death in a Tucson parking lot, Congress has done something quite extraordinary - nothing at all," Giffords and Kelly wrote in the op-ed.
"This country is known for using its determination and ingenuity to solve problems, big and small. Wise policy has conquered disease, protected us from dangerous products and substances, and made transportation safer. But when it comes to protecting our communities from gun violence, we're not even trying - and for the worst of reasons."
They hope to start a national conversation about gun violence and raise funds for political activity, so "legislators will no longer have reason to fear the gun lobby."
"The children of Sandy Hook Elementary School and all victims of gun violence deserve fellow citizens and leaders who have the will to prevent gun violence in the future," they wrote.
As a House member, Giffords was a centrist Democrat who represented much of liberal-leaning Tucson but also more conservative, rural areas. The former state legislator voiced support for gun rights and said she owned a Glock pistol.
Tucson will mark the anniversary by ringing bells across the city at the moment that Jared Lee Loughner opened fire at a supermarket where Giffords was meeting with constituents.
But even on a day of remembrance, residents won't be able to escape the gun debate.
City Councilman Steve Kozachik has organized a gun turn-in program at a local police station Tuesday for people who have decided they no longer want weapons in their homes. He's hoping it helps bring added pressure as Congress and Arizona's Legislature come back into session to "keep the conversation" alive.
People giving up their guns will receive $50 gift cards from Safeway - the grocery store chain where Giffords was shot in the parking lot. The grocer contributed $1,000 of the nearly $10,000 Kozachik raised.
He said that as the shooting fades from the public's mind, issues like controlling the sale of large capacity magazines and keeping guns from the mentally ill need attention.
The event has angered local gun-rights advocates, including an outgoing state senator who plans to gather outside the station and offer people cash for guns instead.
"They're stealing it - stealing it," said Frank Antenori, a Republican who was defeated in a congressional primary bid last year. "Can you name me one firearm in working condition that's worth $50 or less?"
Antenori and Kozachik accused each other of acting out of political motivations. Antenori said the councilman was sullying both the Tucson and Connecticut school shooting victims by the timing of the buyback. Kozachik said the outgoing legislator was just trying to keep his name in the news and remain relevant.
Tucson residents held events over the weekend to mark the anniversary of the Saturday morning when Loughner opened fire with a pistol with a 30-round magazine that he emptied in just 40 seconds.
Rep. Ron Barber, then a Giffords aide, was shot in the thigh and cheek, and went on to replace his boss in Congress. He supports an outright ban on high-capacity magazines and a new federal assault weapons ban while acknowledging there are millions of both already in circulation that will remain there.
"There's no way that those are going to be taken or collected - there's no way that's possible," Barber said Monday. "But if we can move forward toward controlling the accessibility or access to those magazines or assault rifles we can go a long way to minimizing or possibly preventing future tragedies."
Barber plans to mark the moment of the shooting at a private gathering with staff and family members. He will also visit a hospital to thank doctors who treated him and other victims and attend an evening prayer service.
Barber also is pushing for better mental health care and early intervention into school bullying, which he said can lead to serious mental health issues.
"I think it's a very complicated issue and no one or two or even three steps are going to address it or get rid of mass shooting in the future," Barber said.
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, a Republican who vetoed GOP-sponsored bills twice in two years that would have allowed guns on school campuses and in public buildings, said Monday she's expecting more legislation in the wake of the Connecticut shooting, but she offered no suggestions.
"It will be something that I'm sure will be addressed in the Legislature and my ears are all open, and I'm certainly anxious if there is a solution that we get it done," she said.
Loughner pleaded guilty in the Tucson shooting in November and was sentenced to seven consecutive life sentences plus 140 years.
Giffords and Mark Kelly wrote in an op-ed published in USA Today that their Americans for Responsible Solutions initiative would help raise money to support greater gun control efforts.
"Achieving reforms to reduce gun violence and prevent mass shootings will mean matching gun lobbyists in their reach and resources," they wrote in the column.
They said that it will "raise funds necessary to balance the influence of the gun lobby."
The move was hinted at in Kelly's recent comments that he and Giffords want to become a prominent voice for gun control efforts.
The couple last week visited Newtown, Conn., where a gunman opened fire in an elementary school, killing 20 children and six adults in December. They also met with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a gun control advocate.
The couple was expected to discuss the initiative in an interview airing Tuesday on ABC News. The network offered a preview of the interview Monday and during "Good Morning America" on Tuesday. Kelly described a meeting with a father of a Connecticut victim in which he "just about lost it" after the parent showed him a picture of his child.
When asked by Diane Sawyer about when such violence happens to school children, Giffords responded: "Enough."
In the op-ed piece, Kelly and Giffords discussed what they deem lawmakers' inaction on curbing gun violence.
"In response to a horrific series of shootings that has sown terror in our communities, victimized tens of thousands of Americans, and left one of its own bleeding and near death in a Tucson parking lot, Congress has done something quite extraordinary - nothing at all," Giffords and Kelly wrote in the op-ed.
"This country is known for using its determination and ingenuity to solve problems, big and small. Wise policy has conquered disease, protected us from dangerous products and substances, and made transportation safer. But when it comes to protecting our communities from gun violence, we're not even trying - and for the worst of reasons."
They hope to start a national conversation about gun violence and raise funds for political activity, so "legislators will no longer have reason to fear the gun lobby."
"The children of Sandy Hook Elementary School and all victims of gun violence deserve fellow citizens and leaders who have the will to prevent gun violence in the future," they wrote.
As a House member, Giffords was a centrist Democrat who represented much of liberal-leaning Tucson but also more conservative, rural areas. The former state legislator voiced support for gun rights and said she owned a Glock pistol.
Tucson will mark the anniversary by ringing bells across the city at the moment that Jared Lee Loughner opened fire at a supermarket where Giffords was meeting with constituents.
But even on a day of remembrance, residents won't be able to escape the gun debate.
City Councilman Steve Kozachik has organized a gun turn-in program at a local police station Tuesday for people who have decided they no longer want weapons in their homes. He's hoping it helps bring added pressure as Congress and Arizona's Legislature come back into session to "keep the conversation" alive.
People giving up their guns will receive $50 gift cards from Safeway - the grocery store chain where Giffords was shot in the parking lot. The grocer contributed $1,000 of the nearly $10,000 Kozachik raised.
He said that as the shooting fades from the public's mind, issues like controlling the sale of large capacity magazines and keeping guns from the mentally ill need attention.
The event has angered local gun-rights advocates, including an outgoing state senator who plans to gather outside the station and offer people cash for guns instead.
"They're stealing it - stealing it," said Frank Antenori, a Republican who was defeated in a congressional primary bid last year. "Can you name me one firearm in working condition that's worth $50 or less?"
Antenori and Kozachik accused each other of acting out of political motivations. Antenori said the councilman was sullying both the Tucson and Connecticut school shooting victims by the timing of the buyback. Kozachik said the outgoing legislator was just trying to keep his name in the news and remain relevant.
Tucson residents held events over the weekend to mark the anniversary of the Saturday morning when Loughner opened fire with a pistol with a 30-round magazine that he emptied in just 40 seconds.
Rep. Ron Barber, then a Giffords aide, was shot in the thigh and cheek, and went on to replace his boss in Congress. He supports an outright ban on high-capacity magazines and a new federal assault weapons ban while acknowledging there are millions of both already in circulation that will remain there.
"There's no way that those are going to be taken or collected - there's no way that's possible," Barber said Monday. "But if we can move forward toward controlling the accessibility or access to those magazines or assault rifles we can go a long way to minimizing or possibly preventing future tragedies."
Barber plans to mark the moment of the shooting at a private gathering with staff and family members. He will also visit a hospital to thank doctors who treated him and other victims and attend an evening prayer service.
Barber also is pushing for better mental health care and early intervention into school bullying, which he said can lead to serious mental health issues.
"I think it's a very complicated issue and no one or two or even three steps are going to address it or get rid of mass shooting in the future," Barber said.
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, a Republican who vetoed GOP-sponsored bills twice in two years that would have allowed guns on school campuses and in public buildings, said Monday she's expecting more legislation in the wake of the Connecticut shooting, but she offered no suggestions.
"It will be something that I'm sure will be addressed in the Legislature and my ears are all open, and I'm certainly anxious if there is a solution that we get it done," she said.
Loughner pleaded guilty in the Tucson shooting in November and was sentenced to seven consecutive life sentences plus 140 years.
I feel sorry for her, but prior to her being shot by a nutcase, she stood behind the right of Americans to own guns. Â I'm not sure these thoughts now are her own, or her husband's.
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That said, put the time and effort and MONEY behind treating mental illness. Â Today, it has the lowest budget priority and political attention. Â Our own Council focuses spends time and staff wages proposing a new law to force employers to hire felons instead of pushing this to the forefront.
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How about a place where a family can place a relative that is not taking their medicine or that is "scaring" them? Â How about a 24-hr line they can call and someone will come out with the police and do an evaluation? Â If they are wacko, the police can take them away then - instead of their killing people.
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Yes? Â No?
And I mean the crazy people hurting and killing us - not the Police.
No comment until I read the initiative.
Here we go again. Until they control the violence of unstable people with guns this sort of thing is going to continue. Those who do these crimes are not or never will be responsible gun owners and they will get illegal guns no matter how much gun control there is. It will just push the black market on guns in this country. No matter how they try the government can't control everything. They have a very expensive "drug war" going on in this country and it hasn't seem to make a dent in the sale and use of drugs. Even law enforcement admit it's an unwinable war.
 @Jatok "Until they control the violence of unstable people with guns this sort of thing is going to continue."
OK...and how do we do that? There are a lot of people with mental disorders who - because of treatment being slashed due to budget cuts are no longer getting treatment...are we going to spend the funds that are required to treat all the mentally ill people in this country? Hey, I agree with you, we need to find more of them and keep them from getting guns - but is this nation ready to take that kind of step? At least under Obamacare there is no miniscule lifetime cap on health care plans for treating mental problems. And it IS perhaps the greatest medical need in this country - if we could treat all the mentally ill we would probably see a 20% MINIMUM cut in medical costs for all physical treatments.
@OrcasThunder Well, you make a good point. I've never seen so many angry people out running around like there is now. Doesn't take much to set these people off. I do know for sure this is a people problem not a gun problem. The money spent on more gun control isn't going to fix this problem.
Why not a drug control platform as well? Every single mass killing in the past decade involved people who were on anti depressants and anti psychotic medications. We already know that many of those drugs will cause suicidal thoughts in teens and young adults, which nearly all of these perpetrators had just started, or had just stopped taking or changed prescriptions.......
 @RTNavy "Every single mass killing in the past decade involved people who were on anti depressants and anti psychotic medications."
So...first, can you back that up with some facts? I'm not disagreeing, just asking for some data.
Second, are we ready to pay the costs of actually treating these people, instead of simply tossing a few anti-depressants at them?
Like anything one reads on the internet take it with a grain of salt:
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http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/the-giant-gaping-hole-in-sandy-hook-reporting/
 @Rick4001CS OK...
OK.
And I get it - David Kupelian has a thing about anti-depressants, especially when mixed with kids. He also has a popup box for "DIY prostate treatments with non-prescription pills" on his page...
So...are you saying I shouldn't pay attention to anything he writes, or that I SHOULD pay attention to what he is selling?
Since this is going to take a while to sort out why not use a little common sense. The kids first. Give children equal protection by placing armed, active duty law enforcement in all schools. Base the number of officers on the number of children attending the school. Tax gun sales, ammo sales, and actually anything to do with guns, to pay for it. I believe in the right to bear arms, simply because no politician can be trusted. There will always be some garbage out there who wants to control everyone and everything. As far as the children go, safety first. Do not wait for anymore of this to happen to get off your ****** and do something about it.
@uscit16791949 Â I believe in the right to bear arms, simply because no politician can be trusted.Â
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We have lived under this system ror 237 years. The government has not supressed anyone in that time but have freed and given more freedoms since 1776.
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We 435 congressmen and women from all walks of life, conservative and liberal. A balance that will never allow a marshall law goevernment.
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The NRA leadership are now gun sellers and it is that simple. Control won't much more than a few clips and a rifle and will expire at some time. All the guns sold will not have to be turned in.
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It is the hardcore 2nd amendent avocates whom seem to to foaming at the mouth about a government take over that will never come. It does sell alot of guns.
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As for " I believe in the right to bear arms, simply because no politician can be trusted. " , we elect these people and we can not re-elect them. If you don't trust your rep, then stop re-electing them.
 @snoopy84  @uscit16791949 "A balance that will never allow a marshall law goevernment."
Exactly!
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"The NRA leadership are now gun sellers and it is that simple"
Exactly!
 @uscit16791949 So you are just another ban guns through making them too expensive to own/operate person. Well, alcohol kills more people a year then guns, lets do the same there. We apparently have not reached the limit on cigarette taxes so lets raise them. Where shall we stop? You are concerned about death right and not just the look of a gun? While we are at it ban knives and ice picks. Our own Ted Bundy killed plenty more people then in Newtown with those, he never even used a gun. How about Gary Ridgway, another King county killer that killed many more then Newtown without guns. The way you and the other anti gun/pro gun control people act is appalling. You are ranking guns deaths (though lower in body counts) higher than death by any other means. Do you care about the people that Bundy and Ridgway killed? I do but banning guns or as you are trying to make it too hard for people to own/operate (except the people that will kill and the only people that we have to worry about) will not stop the these people. Guns and ammo is already taxed for exactly the purposes you talk about, has it stopped these mentally ill people that wreak violence on our society? This is not a gun issue, this is a mental health issue and people like you that refuse to see this is the biggest problem we have in this society is solving this.
 @Beam_Me_Up  @uscit16791949 "this is a mental health issue"
By and large you are correct.
So...who is going to pay for all the treatment?
@uscit16791949 You're assuming that everyone thinks that placing armed, active duty law enforcement in all the schools is a good idea. What civilized country does that?! And, secondly, do you have any idea how expensive that would be? I can only assume that an armed guard is about $50K a year + benefits.....hardly a "common sense" suggestion.
 @Sheila Lechner  @uscit16791949 "What civilized country does that?!" Israel is a very civilized country that does exactly that. They have learned the hard way that the only way to stop someone wanting to exact violence on their citizens is to be able to counter that person with overwhelming violence against the perpetrator(s). Israel's problems are much worse than ours, their land borders are mostly countries that have vowed to erase Israel from the earth. The people that kill in Israel are mostly fanatics that all mental health professionals in this country would lock up if given the option. The common thread though is our fanatics that kill are exactly like their fanatics. All of the mass killings that have happened in this country in the last 10 years have been directly related to the mental health of the person doing the killing and has also been known to other people. Until you accept the violence in this nation stems from mental health and not guns you will always be part of that problem and you will be delaying the proper help for this country.Â
 @Beam_Me_Up  @Sheila Lechner  @uscit16791949 "All of the Arab countries have refused to accept Israel as a state"
That "may" have been the case prior to 1967, but it is assuredly not the case now.
Both Jordan and Egypt have peace treaties with Israel - no nation makes such a treaty with a "non-State".
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"this is a concept war not a land war"
Only in the minds of some. Actually, the only ones holding to the "non-State" are the Palestinian leadership (not all of the people agree)...and the Israelis, when it regards the Palestinians.
Your error is to equate the two governments with the reality of the people in the entire Middle East.
Oh, there is Iran - but who gives what they say any measure at all? Syria is a non-issue at the moment..
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"I am all for a real socialized medicine instead of where we are going now for socialized medicine."
I - and many other Democrats - would have preferred that as well, but the money poured in from the health care industry and we got what we got. Its a start, but really needs to be more universal, and include everyone - regardless of ability to pay.
 @OrcasThunder  @Sheila Lechner  @uscit16791949 So then by your standard is America civilized? We bomb people using unmanned drones that have killed hundreds of innocent bystanders just to kill one terrorist on a hit list. We have been the only country to use nuclear weapons.
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All of the Arab countries have refused to accept Israel as a state. I don't care when the last war was fought for this is a concept war not a land war. It is very hard to fight a concept when all the people that have the same concept have armies. Israel has fought this concept with superior force against those who would have used the same force to get rid of Israel. And when the armies have failed, the people with these concepts recruit their people for suicide human bombs. If you do not recognize this as mentally unbalanced in a civilized world then you are too close to the issue.
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We are already treating the crazy people though after the fact when they wind up in prison and unfortunately after they have committed their violent actions. I would much rather have what we pay now used for preemptive treatment. I am all for a real socialized medicine instead of where we are going now for socialized medicine. The only people making out are the care givers while we are still in the problem that you only get proper treatment if you can afford it. I am more than prepared to do what is right at the right level and at the right price. The gun is not the answer, the people are.
 @Beam_Me_Up  @Sheila Lechner  @uscit16791949 "Israel is a very civilized country"
By who's measure?
Considering that Israel bombs apartment buildings where hundreds of innocents live just to get at one apartment where someone has a terrorist website on the computer, I'd reserve judgement on the "civilized" part. And yes, the bad Jihadists do the same to Israelis, but you aren't calling THEM "civilized" are you?
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"land borders are mostly countries that have vowed to erase Israel from the earth."
You mean like Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon? Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel, Jordan has not fought a war with anyone since 1967. Lebanon has terrorist factions, but no official war...
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"Until you accept the violence in this nation stems from mental health"
I'd say that MOST violence - of any kind - comes from mental health problems...and this is a very violent country.
So...will you pay the taxes to treat all the crazy people?
Might be cheaper to just stop selling them guns...
 @Sheila Lechner  @uscit16791949 "And, secondly, do you have any idea how expensive that would be? "
It amazes me that you liberals will stand behind a president as he spends trillions of dollars for all sorts of stuff but spending money for school security is somehow now too expensive.Â
 @justmyopinion You are quite correct. The president can only suggest legislation can be brought etc then either sign or veto the bill. The reality is, whether democrat or republican the president works with members of his party and those members in the house basically craft and drive legislation.
 @SeattleJoe Just FYI, the President hasn't spent "trillions of dollars for all sorts of stuff". Only congress is allowed to appropriate (spend) the country's funds.
 @Sheila Lechner "What civilized country does that?!  "
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California?
 @Iconoclast  @Sheila Lechner That's a joke, right?
Why don't we call 'lobbyists' what they really are? Influence peddling will send a congressman to jail, but call it lobbying and it's okay. I say keep influence peddling out of the process. Money corrupts, and lobbying is a payoff. As long as crooks are called good guys the only thing that matters is money for lobbying.
It saddens me, as I read the comments after this story, that we cannot even start a reasonable conversation about how to make our country a safer place for children in school, movie viewers in a theater, shoppers in a mall because people who should care about it, won't even discuss it rationally. I'm talking about both sides of the issue. Just because we want to start a dialog, doesn't mean we want to ban guns. I have no intention of banning them, and I don't even own any. I do want to be able to talk about the problem, and I think through conversation we can come to some solutions to make guns safer and address mental health issues. Our country needs us to do this, and we need cooperation from both sides of the issue, not a bunch of name calling.
 @justmyopinion My guns are safe, not once have they ever killed someone, Mental illness is the only issue that needs to be discussed, that is the problem.
 @DarkParty  @justmyopinion It's not just mental illness, unfortunately.  There is a huge gang problem in this country and that's not mental illness.  That's being raised with very little regard to the lives of others.  We really need to address both issues.
 @stamperzann You're right, we do have a gang problem, but they aren't the ones taking weapons into schools, theaters and malls and shooting the place up. That seems to be mostly mentally ill young men, and they are the ones I was referring to.
 @DarkParty  @justmyopinion How about we discuss the availability of devices that let some citizen with a chip on his shoulder kill a lot of people in minutes? How about we discuss the mentality that all disputes can be settled with a gun? And then there's the attitude that we need guns to fight off a tyrannical government... and how about the problem of children getting killed by unsecured guns? Are these all mental health issues too?Â
 @DarkParty  @APenny4MyThoughts  @tufa23  @justmyopinion It certainly does.  And do you recall what we did after it happened?  We took steps to make sure it didn't happen again.  We instituted stricter security measures at airports.  We strengthened cockpit doors.  We started a watch list of suspected terrorists.  We limited what could be carried aboard airplanes.  We even went to war.
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But what did we do after Tucson? Â We talked. Â Aurora? Â We talked. Â Virginia Tech? Â We talked. Â Oak Creek? We talked. Â Sandy Hook? Â We talked. Â We talk and talk and talk. Â Meanwhile, the U.S. has over twice the gun homicide rate of other western countries. Â Time to stop talking and take serious, meaningful action. Â
Why then do the Swiss, with the fourth highest gun ownership rate in the world, have a gun homicide rate less than half of ours. Â The answer is they have regulations that allow gun ownership while reducing gun violence.
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And you're right, a deadly object in the wrong hands can be dangerous. Which is why the Brits have outlawed private ownership of hand guns. Â Their gun homicide rate is .05/100K population compared to our gun homicide of over 10/100K.
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I'm not advocating anything as draconian as the Brits. Â But if you look at the success of other country's efforts at reducing gun crime, I don't understand why we can't have the same sort of result.Â
 @SeattleJoe  @APenny4MyThoughts  @tufa23  @DarkParty  @justmyopinion "the things their irrational fears are fixated on still exist."
You mean like "They are gonna confiscate all of our guns!" or "We need guns in case the Federal Government turns totalitarian!"Â - or the perennial favorite "Everybody but me and thee is a Socialist! And I'm not all that sure of thee!"?
Reminds me of a song...
"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down"
=========================
"never go for dealing with the actual problem as long as the things their irrational fears are fixated on still exist."
That is a two way street, you know, Joe...
 @Gadsden  @tufa23  @DarkParty  @justmyopinion "Children aren't getting killed by unsecured guns."
Well, it was because a gun was unsecured that a 3 year old killed his older sister with...no, the gun didn't pull the trigger, but the idea of pointing it and pulling the trigger wasn't something the 3 year old cam up with on his own. He saw others do it - perhaps in movies or TV - and copied the motion. And he most likely would not have made those motions with an unsecured cell phone.
 @APenny4MyThoughts  @tufa23  @DarkParty  @justmyopinion Actually, tufa23 was asking about the mentality and attitudes related top to object, not the objects themselves. Those ARE mental issues.
 @APenny4MyThoughts  @tufa23  @DarkParty  @justmyopinion "I'm sure I'm missing some"
Some? Â Sadly you've barely scratched the surface. The "just take the guns away and all will be peachy" crowd like tufa and sheila will never go for dealing with the actual problem as long as the things their irrational fears are fixated on still exist.
@DarkParty @Cetus @APenny4MyThoughts @tufa23 @justmyopinion Snarky comment, but we didn't just sit on our hands after 9/11, did we? I mean, if you want to use that as an example of how we should respond to gun violence, then bring on the DHS!
@Rick4001CS So you'll reference OK city bombing as an example but you don't seem to recall that the gov't started tracking shipments afterwards? And how many truck bombs have occurred since then? You cite examples of other "objects", but you miss the point that the gov't cracked down on their use/accessibility afterwards. But, for some reason, we're to just do nothing and accept more innocent people being killed with legal (and illegal) guns.
@APenny4MyThoughts @tufa23 @DarkParty @justmyopinion And after 9/11 did we sit around and do nothing? Seems to me we passed quite a few restrictive laws (i.e. PATRIOT Act) and started probing/profiling airline passengers. And, btw, how many airplanes have been flown into buildings lately?
 @tufa23  @DarkParty  @justmyopinion Like Timoth McVey did in Oklahoma City? He killed 168 people including many in a day care!
 @tufa23 "How about we discuss the availability of devices that let some citizen with a chip on his shoulder kill a lot of people in minutes?"
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You mean the ones people use hundreds of thousands of times a year for self-defense? The devices used to protect people from criminals, mobs, civil disorder, and abusive governments (local, state)? The devices that keep us a free people? Those devices?
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"How about we discuss the mentality that all disputes can be settled with a gun? "
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Watching too much bad tv and worse movies. Try getting out in the real world sometime.
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"and how about the problem of children getting killed by unsecured guns?"
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Or unsecured swimming pools.
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"Â Are these all mental health issues too? "
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I don't know you well enough to comment on your mental health.
 @tufa23  @DarkParty  @justmyopinion The availability of "devices that let some citizen with a chip on his shoulder kill a lot of people" is not the problem. It's the citizen with a chip on his shoulder.
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Where is this mentality that all disputes can be settled with a gun? Perhaps in the lower educated members of society yes, but they aren't in that category for no reason.
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"the attitude that  we need guns to fight off a tyrannical government" - Sounds legit. We do need guns to fight off a tyrannical government. You don't think kind words and a conscience keep them at bay do you?
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Children aren't getting killed by unsecured guns. Children are getting killed by crazy people who will find a way to do harm, no matter what.
 @Cetus   I listed all of those as they can and have been used as a weapons.  Just as a gun can be used as a weapon it can also be used as a tool.  If you look at how many guns there are than how many guns are used during crimes than guns are safe as well by the numbers so no action is needed. Those safety features and regulations mean very little when the object is in the wrong hands of someone trying to cause damage.
 @Cetus  @APenny4MyThoughts  @tufa23  @justmyopinion "Not sure why you would include airplanes in your rant."
Does the date 9/11/01 mean anything to you?
 @APenny4MyThoughts  @tufa23  @DarkParty  @justmyopinion "Yeah how about those devices like gas, fertilizers, cars, planes, viruses, chemical and I'm sure I'm missing some and new ones will be developed."
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Most of those are subject to regulation or research attempting to mitigate their effects.
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Cars and planes are a prime example. Â Vehicular deaths have been declining for over 20 years and not because drivers have become more responsible. They've been declining because the government has required the automotive industry - against it's will - to implement things like seat belts, airbags and crumple zones.
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Not sure why you would include airplanes in your rant. Â "Measured on a passenger-distance calculation, air travel is the safest form of transportation available...." Â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_accidents_and_incidents This is primarily because the NTSB - an evil government agency - studies every crash and makes recommendations to improve safety and the FAA - another evil government agency - holds their feet to the fire (unless, of course, an airline industry lobbyist is able to bribe Congress to prevent them)
 @APenny4MyThoughts  @tufa23  @justmyopinion Amen!
chip on his shoulder? The freak in the theater had a "chip on his shoulder"? The lunatic in Conn had a chip on his shoulder?  Interesting.  Also, a truck bomb can kill hundreds in an instant (Oklahoma City). When a killer wants to kill he will kill when where and how ever he wants regardless of what laws you think will dissuade him. Disputes settled with a gun....like dueling? wtf........tyrannical government is always a threat to free men? Especially in this day and age, so many threats to our freedom. I agree about unsecured guns being a problem but that is nothing new. Any weapon left lying around is a threat to children. All in all your post is fail.
 @tufa23  @DarkParty  @justmyopinion Yeah how about those devices like gas, fertilizers, cars, planes, viruses, chemical and I'm sure I'm missing some and new ones will be developed.  You can blame an object all you want it is still an object I can put my gun on the counter and stare at it till I turn blue but it isn't going to do anything on its own.  So you get rid of guns somehow with a magic wand then what will you do when people are still killed?  This is a right, not one that the government gave us but one that is a natural right and many take seriously and many owe their lives to and you sir owe your rights to it no matter how much you despise it.  People and children die it is a fact of life and unless we all stop living it is going to happen.  Evil will exist as well as good but to deny the good to defend themselves from evil sir you have just become as evil.
@DarkParty @justmyopinion We need to focus on posttraumatic stress disorder or at least start there...Â
 @RTNavy  @teahater  @DarkParty PTSD takes many forms, has many origins. Child abuse, being subject to trauma of a plane crash or even bullying and feelings of exclustion in a school - like the Columbine school shootings.Â
PTSD is not limited to the military as a diagnosis. Stress can come from anywhere.
 @teahater  @DarkParty None of the recent perpetrators in mass shootings we "ex" military. They were kids on drugs, like anti depressants and other mental health treatments.
 @DarkParty I appreciate that you keep your guns safe, I wish all gun owners did. If they would, we wouldn't have anything to discuss.