Obama: Recovery path hard, challenge 'can be met'
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CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) — His re-election in doubt, President Barack Obama conceded only halting progress Thursday night toward fixing the nation's stubborn economic woes, but vowed in a Democratic National Convention finale, "Our problems can be solved, our challenges can be met."
"Yes, our path is harder — but it leads to a better place," he declared in a prime-time speech to convention delegates and the nation that blended resolve about the challenges ahead with stinging criticism of Republican rival Mitt Romney's proposals to repair the economy.
He acknowledged "my own failings" as he asked for a second term, four years after taking office as the nation's first black president.
"Four more years," delegates chanted over and over as the 51-year-old Obama stepped to the podium, noticeably grayer than four years ago when he was a history-making candidate for the White House.
The president's speech was the final act of a pair of highly scripted national political conventions in as many weeks, and the opening salvo of a two-month drive toward Election Day that pits Obama against Republican rival Romney. The contest is ever tighter for the White House in a dreary season of economic struggle for millions.
Vice President Joe Biden preceded Obama at the convention podium and proclaimed, "America has turned the corner" after experiencing the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
Obama didn't go that far in his own remarks, but he said firmly, "We are not going back, we are moving forward, America."
With unemployment at 8.3 percent, the president said the task of recovering from the economic disaster of 2008 is exceeded in American history only by the challenge Franklin Delano Roosevelt faced when he took office in 1933.
"It will require common effort, shared responsibility and the kind of bold persistent experimentation" that FDR employed, Obama said.
In an appeal to independent voters who might be considering a vote for Romney, he added that those who carry on Roosevelt's legacy "should remember that not every problem can be remedied with another government program or dictate from Washington.
He said, "The truth is, it will take more than a few years for us to solve challenges that have built up over the decades."
In the run-up to Obama's speech, delegates erupted in tumultuous cheers when former Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, grievously wounded in a 2011 assassination attempt, walked onstage to lead the Pledge of Allegiance. The hall grew louder when she blew kisses to the crowd.
And louder still when huge video screens inside the hall showed the face of Osama bin Laden, the terrorist mastermind killed in a daring raid on his Pakistani hideout by U.S. special operations forces â€" on a mission approved by the current commander in chief.
The hall was filled to capacity long before Obama stepped to the podium, and officials shut off the entrances because of a fear of overcrowding for a speech that the campaign had originally slated for the 74,000-seat football stadium nearby. Aides said weather concerns prompted the move to the convention arena, capacity 15,000 or so.
Obama's campaign said the president would ask the country to rally around a "real achievable plan that will create jobs, expand opportunity and ensure an economy built to last."
He added, "The truth is it will take more than a few years for us to solve challenges that have built up over a decade."
In convention parlance, both Obama and Biden were delivering acceptance speeches before delegates who nominated them for new terms in office.
But the political significance went far beyond that - the moment when the general election campaign begins in earnest even though Obama and Romney have been pointing toward a Nov. 6 showdown for months.
To the cheers of delegates, Obama retraced his steps to halt the economic slide, including the auto bailout that Romney opposed.
"After a decade of decline, this country created over a half million manufacturing jobs in the last two and a half years," he said.
Turning to national security, he said he had promised to end the war in Iraq, and had done so.
"We've blunted the Taliban's momentum in Afghanistan, and in 2014 our longest war will be over," he said.
"A new tower rises above the New York skyline, al-Qaida is on the path to defeat and Osama bin Laden is dead," he declared, one of the night's repeated references to the special operations forces raid that resulted in the terrorist mastermind's demise more than a year ago.
He lampooned Romney's own economic proposals.
"Have a surplus? Try a tax cut. Deficit too high? Try another. Feel a cold coming on? Take two tax cuts, roll back some regulations and call us in the morning," he said.
Mocking Romney for his overseas trip earlier this summer, Obama said, "You might not be ready for diplomacy with Beijing if you can't visit the Olympics without insulting our closest ally." That was a reference to a verbal gaffe the former Massachusetts governor committed while visiting London.
The hall was filled to capacity long before Obama stepped to the podium, and officials shut off the entrances because of a fear of overcrowding for a speech that the campaign had originally slated for the 74,000-seat football stadium nearby. Aides said weather concerns prompted the move to the convention arena, capacity 15,000 or so.
Obama's campaign said the president would ask the country to rally around a "real achievable plan that will create jobs, expand opportunity and ensure an economy built to last."
Biden told the convention in his own speech that he had watched as Obama "made one gutsy decision after another" to stop an economic free-fall after they took office in 2009.
Now, he said, "we're on a mission to move this nation forward â€" from doubt and downturn to promise and prosperity. ... America has turned the corner."
Delegates who packed into their convention hall were serenaded by singer James Taylor and rocked by R&B blues artist Mary J. Blige as they awaited Obama's speech.
There was no end to the jabs aimed at Romney and the Republicans.
"Ask Osama bin Laden if he's better off than four years ago," said Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, who lost the 2004 election in a close contest with President George W. Bush. It was a mocking answer to the Republicans' repeated question of whether Americans are better off than when Obama took office.
The campaign focus was shifting quickly â€" to politically sensitive monthly unemployment figures due out Friday morning and the first presidential debate on Oct. 3 in Denver. Wall Street hit a four-year high a few hours before Obama's speech after the European Central Bank laid out a concrete plan to support the region's struggling countries.
The economy is by far the dominant issue in the campaign, and the differences between Obama and his challenger could hardly be more pronounced.
Romney wants to extend all tax cuts that are due to expire on Dec. 31 with an additional 20 percent reduction in rates across the board, arguing that job growth would result. He also favors deep cuts in domestic programs ranging from education to parks, repeal of the health care legislation that Obama pushed through Congress and landmark changes in Medicare, the program that provides health care to seniors.
Obama wants to renew the tax cuts except on incomes higher than $250,000, saying that millionaires should contribute to an overall attack on federal deficits. He also criticizes the spending cuts Romney advocates, saying they would fall unfairly on the poor, lower-income college students and others. He argues that Republicans would "end Medicare as we know it" and saddle seniors with ever-rising costs.
After two weeks of back-to-back conventions, the impact on the race remained to be determined.
You're not going to see big bounces in this election," said David Plouffe, a senior White House adviser. "For the next 61 days, it's going to remain tight as a tick."
Romney wrapped up several days of debate rehearsals with close aides in Vermont and is expected to resume full-time campaigning in the next day or two.
In a brief stop to talk with veterans on Thursday, he defended his decision to omit mention of the war in Afghanistan when he delivered his acceptance speech last week at the Republican National Convention. He noted he had spoken to the American Legion only one day before.
Romney's campaign released its first new television ad since the convention season began.
It shows Clinton sharply questioning Obama's credibility on the Iraq War in 2008, saying "Give me a break, this whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen." Obama was running against Hillary Rodham Clinton at the time for the Democratic nomination.
It will likely be a week or more before the two campaigns can fully digest post-convention polls and adjust their strategies for the fall.
Based on the volume of campaign appearances to date and the hundreds of millions of dollars spent already on television advertising, the election appears likely to be decided in a small number of battleground states. The list includes New Hampshire, Virginia, Ohio, Colorado, Nevada and Iowa, as well as Florida and North Carolina, the states where first Republicans and then Democrats held their conventions. Those states hold 100 electoral votes among them, out of 270 needed to win the White House.
Money has become an ever-present concern for the Democrats, an irony given the overwhelming advantage Obama held over John McCain in the 2008 campaign.
This time, Romney is outpacing him, and independent groups seeking the Republican's election are pouring tens of millions of dollars into television advertising, far exceeding what Obama's supporters can afford.
___
Associated Press writers Leo Buckle, Ben Feller, Ken Thomas, Matt Michaels and Jim Kuhnhenn in Charlotte, Calvin Woodward, Jennifer Agiesta, Jack Gillum and Josh Lederman in Washington, Kasie Hunt in Vermont and Thomas Beaumont and Steve Peoples in Iowa contributed to this report.
"Yes, our path is harder — but it leads to a better place," he declared in a prime-time speech to convention delegates and the nation that blended resolve about the challenges ahead with stinging criticism of Republican rival Mitt Romney's proposals to repair the economy.
He acknowledged "my own failings" as he asked for a second term, four years after taking office as the nation's first black president.
"Four more years," delegates chanted over and over as the 51-year-old Obama stepped to the podium, noticeably grayer than four years ago when he was a history-making candidate for the White House.
The president's speech was the final act of a pair of highly scripted national political conventions in as many weeks, and the opening salvo of a two-month drive toward Election Day that pits Obama against Republican rival Romney. The contest is ever tighter for the White House in a dreary season of economic struggle for millions.
Vice President Joe Biden preceded Obama at the convention podium and proclaimed, "America has turned the corner" after experiencing the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
Obama didn't go that far in his own remarks, but he said firmly, "We are not going back, we are moving forward, America."
With unemployment at 8.3 percent, the president said the task of recovering from the economic disaster of 2008 is exceeded in American history only by the challenge Franklin Delano Roosevelt faced when he took office in 1933.
"It will require common effort, shared responsibility and the kind of bold persistent experimentation" that FDR employed, Obama said.
In an appeal to independent voters who might be considering a vote for Romney, he added that those who carry on Roosevelt's legacy "should remember that not every problem can be remedied with another government program or dictate from Washington.
He said, "The truth is, it will take more than a few years for us to solve challenges that have built up over the decades."
In the run-up to Obama's speech, delegates erupted in tumultuous cheers when former Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, grievously wounded in a 2011 assassination attempt, walked onstage to lead the Pledge of Allegiance. The hall grew louder when she blew kisses to the crowd.
And louder still when huge video screens inside the hall showed the face of Osama bin Laden, the terrorist mastermind killed in a daring raid on his Pakistani hideout by U.S. special operations forces â€" on a mission approved by the current commander in chief.
The hall was filled to capacity long before Obama stepped to the podium, and officials shut off the entrances because of a fear of overcrowding for a speech that the campaign had originally slated for the 74,000-seat football stadium nearby. Aides said weather concerns prompted the move to the convention arena, capacity 15,000 or so.
Obama's campaign said the president would ask the country to rally around a "real achievable plan that will create jobs, expand opportunity and ensure an economy built to last."
He added, "The truth is it will take more than a few years for us to solve challenges that have built up over a decade."
In convention parlance, both Obama and Biden were delivering acceptance speeches before delegates who nominated them for new terms in office.
But the political significance went far beyond that - the moment when the general election campaign begins in earnest even though Obama and Romney have been pointing toward a Nov. 6 showdown for months.
To the cheers of delegates, Obama retraced his steps to halt the economic slide, including the auto bailout that Romney opposed.
"After a decade of decline, this country created over a half million manufacturing jobs in the last two and a half years," he said.
Turning to national security, he said he had promised to end the war in Iraq, and had done so.
"We've blunted the Taliban's momentum in Afghanistan, and in 2014 our longest war will be over," he said.
"A new tower rises above the New York skyline, al-Qaida is on the path to defeat and Osama bin Laden is dead," he declared, one of the night's repeated references to the special operations forces raid that resulted in the terrorist mastermind's demise more than a year ago.
He lampooned Romney's own economic proposals.
"Have a surplus? Try a tax cut. Deficit too high? Try another. Feel a cold coming on? Take two tax cuts, roll back some regulations and call us in the morning," he said.
Mocking Romney for his overseas trip earlier this summer, Obama said, "You might not be ready for diplomacy with Beijing if you can't visit the Olympics without insulting our closest ally." That was a reference to a verbal gaffe the former Massachusetts governor committed while visiting London.
The hall was filled to capacity long before Obama stepped to the podium, and officials shut off the entrances because of a fear of overcrowding for a speech that the campaign had originally slated for the 74,000-seat football stadium nearby. Aides said weather concerns prompted the move to the convention arena, capacity 15,000 or so.
Obama's campaign said the president would ask the country to rally around a "real achievable plan that will create jobs, expand opportunity and ensure an economy built to last."
Biden told the convention in his own speech that he had watched as Obama "made one gutsy decision after another" to stop an economic free-fall after they took office in 2009.
Now, he said, "we're on a mission to move this nation forward â€" from doubt and downturn to promise and prosperity. ... America has turned the corner."
Delegates who packed into their convention hall were serenaded by singer James Taylor and rocked by R&B blues artist Mary J. Blige as they awaited Obama's speech.
There was no end to the jabs aimed at Romney and the Republicans.
"Ask Osama bin Laden if he's better off than four years ago," said Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, who lost the 2004 election in a close contest with President George W. Bush. It was a mocking answer to the Republicans' repeated question of whether Americans are better off than when Obama took office.
The campaign focus was shifting quickly â€" to politically sensitive monthly unemployment figures due out Friday morning and the first presidential debate on Oct. 3 in Denver. Wall Street hit a four-year high a few hours before Obama's speech after the European Central Bank laid out a concrete plan to support the region's struggling countries.
The economy is by far the dominant issue in the campaign, and the differences between Obama and his challenger could hardly be more pronounced.
Romney wants to extend all tax cuts that are due to expire on Dec. 31 with an additional 20 percent reduction in rates across the board, arguing that job growth would result. He also favors deep cuts in domestic programs ranging from education to parks, repeal of the health care legislation that Obama pushed through Congress and landmark changes in Medicare, the program that provides health care to seniors.
Obama wants to renew the tax cuts except on incomes higher than $250,000, saying that millionaires should contribute to an overall attack on federal deficits. He also criticizes the spending cuts Romney advocates, saying they would fall unfairly on the poor, lower-income college students and others. He argues that Republicans would "end Medicare as we know it" and saddle seniors with ever-rising costs.
After two weeks of back-to-back conventions, the impact on the race remained to be determined.
You're not going to see big bounces in this election," said David Plouffe, a senior White House adviser. "For the next 61 days, it's going to remain tight as a tick."
Romney wrapped up several days of debate rehearsals with close aides in Vermont and is expected to resume full-time campaigning in the next day or two.
In a brief stop to talk with veterans on Thursday, he defended his decision to omit mention of the war in Afghanistan when he delivered his acceptance speech last week at the Republican National Convention. He noted he had spoken to the American Legion only one day before.
Romney's campaign released its first new television ad since the convention season began.
It shows Clinton sharply questioning Obama's credibility on the Iraq War in 2008, saying "Give me a break, this whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen." Obama was running against Hillary Rodham Clinton at the time for the Democratic nomination.
It will likely be a week or more before the two campaigns can fully digest post-convention polls and adjust their strategies for the fall.
Based on the volume of campaign appearances to date and the hundreds of millions of dollars spent already on television advertising, the election appears likely to be decided in a small number of battleground states. The list includes New Hampshire, Virginia, Ohio, Colorado, Nevada and Iowa, as well as Florida and North Carolina, the states where first Republicans and then Democrats held their conventions. Those states hold 100 electoral votes among them, out of 270 needed to win the White House.
Money has become an ever-present concern for the Democrats, an irony given the overwhelming advantage Obama held over John McCain in the 2008 campaign.
This time, Romney is outpacing him, and independent groups seeking the Republican's election are pouring tens of millions of dollars into television advertising, far exceeding what Obama's supporters can afford.
___
Associated Press writers Leo Buckle, Ben Feller, Ken Thomas, Matt Michaels and Jim Kuhnhenn in Charlotte, Calvin Woodward, Jennifer Agiesta, Jack Gillum and Josh Lederman in Washington, Kasie Hunt in Vermont and Thomas Beaumont and Steve Peoples in Iowa contributed to this report.
At least I know I woke up in Seattle today.
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Same ole passive agressive posts from the left claiming the right should 'justify' their claims while they refuse to do the same.
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If a conservative makes a comment, it needs to be notarized. If a liberal makes a comment, it's the gosh darn truth and there's no need for verification.
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I woke up in Seattle today. At least I'm above ground. That's a good thing I guess.
Those Republicans have always proclaimed their support for our troops while putting mostly 21 year olds on the front lines. Â They have been adamant about their support for our troops through the Bush years.
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During the conventions how many times do the candidates Thanks the troops, Talk about Veterans care and talk about the war in Afghanistan in their convention speeches?
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Obama went into these subjects 7 TIMES
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Romney..........ZERO.
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Romney's plans are apparently STILL a secret even to the republican supporters here. Â
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Unfortunately for Romney people are realizing that he is surrounded by Bush's advisers. Â
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Where was the most recent republican President Bush during the convention? Â I didn't catch his speech on how fiscally responsible his administration was? Â
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Bush..... Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush..... Republicans hate it when you bring up Bush.Â
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 @Andrew Bush Hmmm. Looking at what he's done, vs what he talks about. How many votes did Obama's last three budgets get? ZERO. How many budgets has he had the leadership to get through congress in the last three years? ZERO. In how many years will his proposed budgets balance (if using the most optimistic estimates by the OMB)? NEVER. He talks a great game. He delivers.... excuses, regulations, taxes, lies, class warfare, identity politics, and political division. No, thanks. I'll pass on that sort of change.
 I find it really interesting how few of the republican posters stand up for their candidates. They very seldom even mention their names. What's up with that?Â
And why do they never post Romney's (yes, that is his name) positions? What is his plan to get us out of Afghanistan? He pacifies the tp by saying he will repeal Obamacare on his first day in office. But he also tries to pacify others by saying he will only repeal parts of it. What is his healthcare plan?
None of the speakers at the republican convention gave specifics on what they were going to do.Â
If they had such good workable plans, don't you think they would be proud to state them?
@Darn it! @Andrew BushÂ
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Why would anyone ever show their hand during a poker game? You seriously want to know why the Romney Ryan ticket won't show their plan YET? Great leaders never give more information unless they absolutely have to. This way the other side won't steal their great ideas. They'll disclose more, closer to the election. Makes sense, doesn't it?
 @ObsidianOne  @Andrew Bush  @Darn Yep. A vote for Romney is like a poker game alright. A rigged one.
 @ObsidianOne Ridiculous.  The voters don't have the right to know what Romney's plans are if we are asked to elect him? Â
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Complete Crap! Â YOU don't even know his great secret plans but you will hand America's future over to the Billionaire with money hidden outside the United States.Â
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 @Darn it! Their plan is to bring back the Bush years. This is why they are saying nothing.Â
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They have nothing else but the Bush plan. Â
ALL Americans better start taking to heart the simplest precepts of self sufficiency or our nation dies, here it comes again, from the CHOICE of lack of accountability by the people. Hard times demand creativity and innovation from the populace for survival, and all we NEED for that are life's base requirements. Don't talk hard luck inner city kids to me, I was poorer than them and would walk twelve miles a day as a kid to get to the nearest regular work available. We truly have few in this nation that have NO resources nor any access to employment. Self sufficient, self accountable people break out their hustle, all others do not.
Good article by Fortune. Forget about are we worse off now than four years ago. The article points out that many Americans are worse off than they were last year and the outlook for the near future is dimming.
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http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/07/worse-off-in-2011/?iid=HP_LN
While I'm still stuck voting for the lesser of two evils, at least this time, one is much lesser than the other.
"For 52 years now, the Republicans have held the White House 28 years, the Democrats, 24. In those 52 years, our private economy has produced 66 million private sector jobs. So whatâs the job score? Republicans, 24 million; Democrats, 42 (million)." ~ Bill Clinton
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TRUE
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/bill-clinton/
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So shut up about "jobs" you mouth breathing civil rights hating conservatives.Â
 @ducati You can throw a blanket on anything, but that doesn't make statements by politicians, nor factchecking done by others true if it isn't the whole story. It's all about the jobs overall, not those that are divisive to our people overall. Governmental infrastructure work has proven to be the most stable work environment in this nation for many years, and whether Dem or Republican or Independent like me, this fact is easily true to anyone. Clinton's motives for the statement may have been strictly correct, but decidedly unworthy of a true man of stature if they cloud issues vital to the American public. We have a HUGE problem for Democracy if only a certain class or group is encouraged to perform in public based employment. It has nothing at all to do with job creation since the second world war years, and all to do with the number of unemployed today. All else is plain old avoiding accountability, and allowing the same for others.
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@FreeCoffeeNow! So if âGovernmental infrastructure work has proven to be the most stable work environment in this nation for many yearsâ are you trying to say that should continue to be thwarted?
@ducati Don't lump all conservatives into one bucket, same with liberals - I choose the best ticket, I actually liked Clinton. He was too far to the left during his first 4 years of administration and moved to the center. As far as Obama he started out far to the left and has even gone further to the left (Scary). I'm fiscally conservative because I don't believe spending more does anything but leave a debt that will hurt our future, our children's future and ultimately collapse our entire society into mass poverty. Stop borrowing money, stop raising the debt ceiling, stop using taxpayers social security to fund today's agendas, stop all of it until we get the debt under control. No wonder why so many households are bankrupt, we teach them that it's okay to go into thousands of dollars of debt, not repay and keep spending. Keep buying those "changes" America - the only thing you are buying is an illusion.
 @alildifferentÂ
I'm fiscally conservative as well and socially liberal. That is why I can't vote for the GOP.
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I believe people have the right to do whatever they want behind closed doors so long as they aren't hurting anyone else.
- The GOP no longer does. (Vaginal ultrasound probes, legitimate rape, marriage equality)
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I believe in fiscal responsibility.
- The GOP no longer does. (Ryan budget enough said)
 @alildifferent  @ducati It seems that we do best when we don't have one party or the other controlling congress and the presidency.
@Darn it! It is more than just big corps and it could be corps or whatever in China, Russia, or wherever for all we now know. I suppose whatever as a lot of them are multinationals anyway. And it will be a while if ever that we find out who these people, corps, and or etc. truly are, if ever. We are just so screwed.
 @Dan Sherman  @alildifferent  @ducati Since Citizens United it is the big corporations pouring money in for tv ads and congressional reelection campaigns that have the loudest voice.Â
This comment has been deleted
@ducati@alildifferent
A religious wedding ceremony must be supported by the presiding church, and forcing them to perform them is an abridgement of the 1st amendment as near as I can tell. OTOH, the civil law aspect is essentially a binding legal contract to associate the assets and intertwine the legal rights and responsibilities of the two individuals, and the state CAN do that without any religious overtones re: 1st Amendment (again, near as I can tell). Itâs called freedom of contract. But, if you are going to go that route, and say the freedom to contract means that ANY two can have a civil union without state prohibition, the logical extension is that minimum wage laws, anti-prostitution laws, indentured servitude laws, most insurance regulations, and a lot of other stuff are not legal because they interfere with the right to freely contract your services and money. If you say the state CAN interfere with those rights to contract, then it can by extension ALSO impose restrictions on who can have a civil âmarriage.â If you want to apply consistent principles, you can have both or neither, as it were.
 @Dan Sherman  @Rick4001CS One thing to think about is that Bush did not include the cost of wars in his figures and had no plan to pay for them. Obama does include the cost.Â
 @Rick4001CS If he were decreasing the debt and not increasing it at a faster rate than Bush, he would most certainly have my attention.
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Here's what I don't understand. People who complain about the debt Bush ran up, but give our current President a pass when he's running it up even faster.
 @ducati  @alildifferent How does civil rights equate to budget?
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I believe that homosexuals should be allowed civil unions.
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I believe that a woman has the right to choose to abortion. I don't think it's a good idea, and I wish we had some sort of artificial womb to preserve the life, but that's not how it is right now.
It would have been nice had Obama been able to lead that debt down a trillion or two........even a little progress would have made him look somewhat on the job.
 @alildifferent False!
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The real argument looks like this:
Only heterosexual couples can marry
OR
Anyone can marry
OR
Only same sex couples can marry
So the happy middle ground is ANYONE CAN MARRY.
 @Dan Sherman @alildifferentÂ
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That's where we mostly disagree. I will ALWAYS vote for civil rights before I vote budget. I believe equal rights of people should not be put wayside for promises of money.
@Dan Sherman @ducati - You don't have to sell me - I'm with ya :)
@ducati - Rights vs Morality two different topics.
 @ducati  @alildifferent I agree that the Repukeagains were responsible for the debt they ran up. I was complaining about it when it happened. But the debt clock started a long time ago. Both sides are responsible, and while we bicker about which party is responsible the problem continues. Neither candidate is good. But I'll take one that offers smaller government over one that wants bigger government. Is Romney that candidate? Probably not since both parties continue to grow government. But at the moment I've seen where Obama wants to go.
 @alildifferent
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So you're saying you're willing to sell out our inalienable rights for $$$$$$.
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Thanks for clearing that up!
 @Dan Sherman @alildifferentÂ
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The Dems left Bush with a pretty rosy economy and a surplus. I think you conservatives really believe that the debt clock at the RNC started 3.5 years ago.
@ducati I am also a social liberal (don't like to be pigeon holed we all have many flavors) but I'm more concerned with the $$$$$ at this moment than I am about moral issues. I don't believe government should be in the business of morality and that's for BOTH parties and every party in-between. But they all are cause that's what they want to SELL YOU ON because they don't have a clue at what they are doing financially. At this point I want to get back to basic math.
 @ducati  @alildifferent And the Dems are fiscally responsible?
 @ducati And who was in control of the house and senate during those times?
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And your comment to shut up shows your hatred, as does your ad hominem attack on conservatives.
 @Dan Sherman  @ducati So you are saying that the president doesn't control the economy by himself. Now I am confused, when I listen to Republicans talk they are often saying that Obama needs to be blamed and removed for the slow jobs recovery. Now you are saying that the house and senate are also responsible? So I guess we need to also blame and throw out Republicans in the house and senate as well as democrats? Which is it?
 @albion  @ducati I'd like to see an end to the Republican and Democrat establishments. They are only interested in their power, and have learned that they can play off of each other and divide us as a nation, thus diverting our attention away from their misdeeds.
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The President sets the agenda, especially for their party. Clinton did more good for the party when he had to deal with the other side. It seems to hold true when looking back in history. When Bush was first elected the Repukeagains ran wild with spending. The same is true with our current President. It wasn't until 2010 that he had to compromise.
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I definitely say we need to throw out most of our elected officials. They aren't doing their job and are only lining their pockets and their buddies, instead of holding our interests in the highest.
 @Andrew Bush  @albion like Harry read not voting on all those jobs bills on his desk.
 @albion   When the republicans are blocking anything and everything including jobs bills and anything that may help the middle class who are suffering after the mess of the Bush years with more filibuster than any other time in American history in hopes to make Obama and America FAIL, its not hard to the the elephant in the room.Â
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 @albion @Dan ShermanÂ
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Hey! Back off!!! That's how cherry picking works!
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When you don't actually have any facts to support your argument you take when you can get.
 @Dan ShermanÂ
Boo hoo.
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So the right can spew fact less rhetoric but when I offer statistics and supporting evidence of vaginal ultrasound and "legitimate rape". You get your feelings hurt?
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Maybe itâs time for you guys to go back to the FOX News channel where itâs all about unicorn farts and Obama hating.
@Andrew Bush @Antistatism @Dan Sherman Great, you can copy-paste a list. But looking at the list, I see no evidence that any of those people were Tea Party members. Also, Stack was a raving loon leftist, the Nazis were a leftist (socialist) party, several of the others had a history of mental health issues, and pretty much all of them have been repudiated by every major conservative organization. OTOH, the OWS crowd, ELF, anarchists, and other violent left-wing organizations are routinely lauded, embraced, and supported by mainstream Dem folks. Heck, Bill Ayres ghost wrote the President's autobiography. Not exactly an ideal bunch to keep company with....
 @Andrew Bush I'm upset? LOL
Are you sure that your not one of the people on that list you provided? I think your about to snap!! You're not even making any sense when you post.
 @Antistatism Im sorry this list of right wing extremists upsets you so much but they did happen and continue to happen across America. Â
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You can deny it while you have your tantrum that the peoples government is bad but you offer NOTHING. Â
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Simply wanted less taxes? They murdered people when our taxes are low now they are comparable to the 50'sÂ
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Do you understand that MURDER is serious? Â " Simply wanted less taxes?" What a pathetic statement.Â
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You reveal yourself to be a victim of propaganda when you say such things. .Â
 @Andrew Bush  @Dan Sherman So, instead of just coming out and saying you want to live in an America with a large oppressive government. You instead want to advertise your blatant ignorance about the Tea Party by associating a list of extremist, crooks and idiots (non of them Tea Party members) with a group of people that simply want limited Government (less taxes) and other US constitutional stuff you like to wipe your bottom end with.
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Again, I would say from reading many of your post that you are the one pushing fear and loathing in the minds of the easily manipulated, just an observation =)
Dan, a little angry???
I was of the understanding that liberals were tolerant people.!
@Antistatism@Dan Sherman
Really??? Â I am the one pushing fear ??.hmm... maybe this list is my imagination. Â All these people didnt really die from right wing anti government terrorist to America.
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-- February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one "domestic terrorism" too.)
-- March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinatÂÂe local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.
-- March 2010: An anti-goverÂÂnment extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.
-- May 2010: A "sovereign citizen" from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouseÂÂ.
-- May 2010: A still-unidÂÂentified white man walks into a JacksonvilÂÂle, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneoÂÂusly setting off a pipe bomb.
-- May 2010: Two "sovereign citizens" named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.
-- July 2010: An agitated right-wingÂÂer and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepteÂÂd by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.â
-- January 2009: A white supremacisÂÂt named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.
-- February 2009: A Marine named Kody BrittinghaÂÂm is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinatÂÂe President Obama. BrittinghaÂÂm also collected white-suprÂÂemacist material.
-- April 2009: A white supremacisÂÂt named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-vÂÂiolence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.
-- April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama's purported gun-grabbiÂÂng plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-vÂÂiolence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.
-- May 2009: A "sovereign citizen" named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinatÂÂes abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.
-- June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.
2009: A white supremacisÂÂt named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-vÂÂiolence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.
-- July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how "liberals" are "destroyinÂÂg America," walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoerÂÂs and wounding four others.
-- October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-AmÂÂericans, culminatinÂÂg in the assassinatÂÂion of President Obama.
-- December 2008: A pair of "Patriot" movement radicals -- the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted "to attack the political infrastrucÂÂture" -- threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficultiÂÂes, for which they blamed the governmentÂÂ. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.
-- December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear "dirty bomb" in the basement of a white supremacisÂÂt shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independenÂÂtly wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.
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 @Andrew Bush  @Dan Sherman Funny, I never thought of people seeking freedom from a oppressive government as dangerous, well except to that oppressive government and it's loyalist. And we all know how the left is for BIG oppressive government that other than the freedom for woman's to kill there children you get little to no freedom.Â
With all those uprising against governments I hear on the news against oppressive governments these days we need to really watch out for those dangerous violent ..occupi....I mean Tea Party people holding those evil American flags when they walk around chanting the need for smaller government and all that other constitutional stuff you like to wipe your bottom end with. LOL
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I would say from reading many of your post that you are the one pushing fear and loathing in the minds of the easily manipulated, just an observation =)
 @Dan Sherman Tea Party right wing militia websites are not news and do not provide facts.  Just pushing fear and loathing in the minds of the easily manipulated and outright dangerous people of the right. Â
 @ducati Ah, so more attacks that don't address the issue. I see them from both minions of the political parties.
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And by the way, I don't watch any of the major news outlets. They all have an agenda. I look at individuals and what they achieve. So far I haven't been happy with many presidents. Looking back the last president that we had that was really looking out for the people was Kennedy, who was trying to reign in on big government, as well as trying to return us to the gold standard.
 @CrankyPanky @Dan ShermanÂ
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Yes. I watch Megyn Kelly with the sound off.
 @ducati  @Dan Sherman have you ever watched FOX news ever?