Still time to dodge the cliff, Obama, Boehner say
WASHINGTON (AP) - With Congress in gridlock and stocks taking a fall, President Barack Obama issued a stern summons to lawmakers Friday to pass legislation to prevent year-end fiscal cliff tax increases on millions and avoid an imminent expiration of benefits for the long-term unemployed.
Republican House Speaker John Boehner said Obama himself must give more ground to reach an agreement. He added, "How we get there, God only knows."
Congress was shutting down, and Obama was headed to Hawaii to join his family for the holidays. But both men indicated they'd be back working to beat the fast-approaching Jan. 1 deadline with an agreement between Christmas and New Year's.
One day after House anti-tax rebels torpedoed Boehner's 'Plan B' legislation because it would raise rates on million-dollar-earners, Obama said he still wants a bill that requires the well-to-do to pay more. "Everybody's got to give a little bit in a sensible way" to prevent the economy from pitching over a recession-threatening fiscal cliff, he said.
He spoke after talking by phone with Boehner - architect of the failed House bill - and meeting with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
Boehner's office quickly issued a statement saying the Ohio Republican intends to return to the Capitol after Christmas "ready to find a solution that can pass both houses of Congress." At the same time, spokesman Brendan Buck said, "we remain hopeful he (Obama) is finally ready to get serious about averting the fiscal cliff."
At the White House, Obama projected optimism as he struggled to deal with the wreckage of weeks of failed negotiations and political maneuvering. "So call me a hopeless optimist, but I actually still think we can get it done," he said of an elusive deal.
The president spoke at the end of a day in which stocks tumbled and congressional leaders squabbled as the fiscal cliff drew implacably closer.
Boehner spoke in the morning, describing the increasingly tangled attempts to beat the Jan. 1 deadline and head off the perilous combination of across-the-board tax hikes and deep spending cuts.
Obama spoke shortly before a scheduled departure to join his family in Hawaii for Christmas, but in an indication of the importance of the issue, he told reporters he would be returning to the White House next week.
He said that in his negotiations with Boehner, he had offered to meet Republicans halfway when it came to taxes, and "more than halfway" toward their target for spending cuts.
He said he remains committed to working toward a goal of longer-term deficit reduction, but in the meantime he said quick action is needed to keep taxes from rising for tens of millions.
"Averting this middle class tax hike is not a Democratic responsibility or a Republican responsibility. With their votes, the American people have decided that government is a shared responsibility," he said, referring to a Congress where power is divided between the two parties.
"We move forward together or we don't move forward at all," he added.
Progress was invisible one day after House Republican rebels thwarted Boehner's plan to prevent tax increases for all but the nation's million-dollar earners. And while neither House is expected to meet again until after Christmas, officials in both parties said there was still time to prevent the changes from kicking in with the new year.
Yet they pointedly disagreed which side needed to make the first move.
"It's time for the speaker and all Republicans to return to the negotiating table," said Senate Democratic leader Reid.
He said that, for now, Boehner should allow a vote on legislation that would block all tax increases except for individuals making more than $200,000 and couples making $250,000 - the position that Obama carried through his successful campaign for re-election.
Reid said it would pass the House with votes from lawmakers from both parties, and, separately, some Democrats said it was possible similar legislation may yet be launched in the Senate.
Moments later, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said Democrats had "spent all day yesterday defeating" the legislation in the House - even though Boehner himself said it had been deep-sixed by GOP opposition.
Countering Reid's offer, McConnell said the Senate should pass legislation extending tax cuts at all income levels and requiring a comprehensive overhaul of the tax code. Beyond that, he said, "''Look: It's the president's job to find a solution that can pass Congress. He's the only one who can do it."
Rhetoric aside, the Dow Jones Industrial Average declined 121 points in what analysts said was a reaction to the events in the capital.
The developments marked yet another baffling turn in a week that began with news that Obama and Boehner had significantly narrowed their differences on a plan to erase the cliff. Both were offering a cut in taxes for most Americans, an increase for a relative few and cuts of roughly $1 trillion in spending over a year. Also included was a provision to scale back future cost-of-living increases for Social Security recipients - a concession on the president's part as much as agreeing to higher tax rates was for the House speaker.
GOP officials said some senior Republicans balked at the emerging terms.
Boehner stepped back and announced what he called Plan B, legislation to let tax rates rise on incomes of $1 million or more while preventing increases for all other taxpayers.
Despite statements of confidence, he and his lieutenants decided late Thursday they were not going to be able to secure the votes needed to pass the measure in the face of opposition from conservatives unwilling to violate decades-old party orthodoxy never to raise tax rates.
Officials said as many as two dozen rank-and-file Republicans had made it clear they would oppose the bill, more than enough to send it to defeat given unanimous Democratic opposition.
At his Friday morning news conference several hours later, Boehner dismissed suggestions that he was concerned the turn of events could cost him his speakership.
"No, I am not," he said.
"While we may have not been able to get the votes last night to avert 99.81 percent of the tax increases, I don't think - they weren't taking that out on me," Boehner said of the Republican rank and file. "They were dealing with the perception that somebody might accuse them of raising taxes."
Boehner also said that last Monday he had told Obama he had submitted his bottom line proposal.
"The president told me that his numbers - the $1.3 trillion in new revenues, $850 billion in spending cuts - was his bottom line, that he couldn't go any further."
That contradicted remarks by White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, who said on Thursday that Obama has "never said either in private or in public that this was his final offer. He understands that to reach a deal it would require some further negotiation. There is not much further he could go."
___
Associated Press writers Andrew Taylor, Alan Fram and Jim Kuhnhenn contributed to this story.
Republican House Speaker John Boehner said Obama himself must give more ground to reach an agreement. He added, "How we get there, God only knows."
Congress was shutting down, and Obama was headed to Hawaii to join his family for the holidays. But both men indicated they'd be back working to beat the fast-approaching Jan. 1 deadline with an agreement between Christmas and New Year's.
One day after House anti-tax rebels torpedoed Boehner's 'Plan B' legislation because it would raise rates on million-dollar-earners, Obama said he still wants a bill that requires the well-to-do to pay more. "Everybody's got to give a little bit in a sensible way" to prevent the economy from pitching over a recession-threatening fiscal cliff, he said.
He spoke after talking by phone with Boehner - architect of the failed House bill - and meeting with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
Boehner's office quickly issued a statement saying the Ohio Republican intends to return to the Capitol after Christmas "ready to find a solution that can pass both houses of Congress." At the same time, spokesman Brendan Buck said, "we remain hopeful he (Obama) is finally ready to get serious about averting the fiscal cliff."
At the White House, Obama projected optimism as he struggled to deal with the wreckage of weeks of failed negotiations and political maneuvering. "So call me a hopeless optimist, but I actually still think we can get it done," he said of an elusive deal.
The president spoke at the end of a day in which stocks tumbled and congressional leaders squabbled as the fiscal cliff drew implacably closer.
Boehner spoke in the morning, describing the increasingly tangled attempts to beat the Jan. 1 deadline and head off the perilous combination of across-the-board tax hikes and deep spending cuts.
Obama spoke shortly before a scheduled departure to join his family in Hawaii for Christmas, but in an indication of the importance of the issue, he told reporters he would be returning to the White House next week.
He said that in his negotiations with Boehner, he had offered to meet Republicans halfway when it came to taxes, and "more than halfway" toward their target for spending cuts.
He said he remains committed to working toward a goal of longer-term deficit reduction, but in the meantime he said quick action is needed to keep taxes from rising for tens of millions.
"Averting this middle class tax hike is not a Democratic responsibility or a Republican responsibility. With their votes, the American people have decided that government is a shared responsibility," he said, referring to a Congress where power is divided between the two parties.
"We move forward together or we don't move forward at all," he added.
Progress was invisible one day after House Republican rebels thwarted Boehner's plan to prevent tax increases for all but the nation's million-dollar earners. And while neither House is expected to meet again until after Christmas, officials in both parties said there was still time to prevent the changes from kicking in with the new year.
Yet they pointedly disagreed which side needed to make the first move.
"It's time for the speaker and all Republicans to return to the negotiating table," said Senate Democratic leader Reid.
He said that, for now, Boehner should allow a vote on legislation that would block all tax increases except for individuals making more than $200,000 and couples making $250,000 - the position that Obama carried through his successful campaign for re-election.
Reid said it would pass the House with votes from lawmakers from both parties, and, separately, some Democrats said it was possible similar legislation may yet be launched in the Senate.
Moments later, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said Democrats had "spent all day yesterday defeating" the legislation in the House - even though Boehner himself said it had been deep-sixed by GOP opposition.
Countering Reid's offer, McConnell said the Senate should pass legislation extending tax cuts at all income levels and requiring a comprehensive overhaul of the tax code. Beyond that, he said, "''Look: It's the president's job to find a solution that can pass Congress. He's the only one who can do it."
Rhetoric aside, the Dow Jones Industrial Average declined 121 points in what analysts said was a reaction to the events in the capital.
The developments marked yet another baffling turn in a week that began with news that Obama and Boehner had significantly narrowed their differences on a plan to erase the cliff. Both were offering a cut in taxes for most Americans, an increase for a relative few and cuts of roughly $1 trillion in spending over a year. Also included was a provision to scale back future cost-of-living increases for Social Security recipients - a concession on the president's part as much as agreeing to higher tax rates was for the House speaker.
GOP officials said some senior Republicans balked at the emerging terms.
Boehner stepped back and announced what he called Plan B, legislation to let tax rates rise on incomes of $1 million or more while preventing increases for all other taxpayers.
Despite statements of confidence, he and his lieutenants decided late Thursday they were not going to be able to secure the votes needed to pass the measure in the face of opposition from conservatives unwilling to violate decades-old party orthodoxy never to raise tax rates.
Officials said as many as two dozen rank-and-file Republicans had made it clear they would oppose the bill, more than enough to send it to defeat given unanimous Democratic opposition.
At his Friday morning news conference several hours later, Boehner dismissed suggestions that he was concerned the turn of events could cost him his speakership.
"No, I am not," he said.
"While we may have not been able to get the votes last night to avert 99.81 percent of the tax increases, I don't think - they weren't taking that out on me," Boehner said of the Republican rank and file. "They were dealing with the perception that somebody might accuse them of raising taxes."
Boehner also said that last Monday he had told Obama he had submitted his bottom line proposal.
"The president told me that his numbers - the $1.3 trillion in new revenues, $850 billion in spending cuts - was his bottom line, that he couldn't go any further."
That contradicted remarks by White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, who said on Thursday that Obama has "never said either in private or in public that this was his final offer. He understands that to reach a deal it would require some further negotiation. There is not much further he could go."
___
Associated Press writers Andrew Taylor, Alan Fram and Jim Kuhnhenn contributed to this story.
Obama and Boehner were ready. There were a hand ful of Republicans that didn't like the plan so they are holding things up. They are just setting things up for the republican thinning of the herd.Â
Why do they think we are okay with this? They bicker and complain back and forth for months, if not longer, about every problem, and patch something together at the very last minute and expect us to think of them as heroes who saved the day.
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I know, I know... It's the Republicans who are doing this and that, it's the Liberals who are doing the same. Blah Blah Blah, shut up, suck it up and just get it done.
Never  mind.  There's plenty of money and I took my mother-in-law, her friend and my family on the taxpayer jet to Hawaii.  I'm tired.  I spent 71-days in Washington DC this year and it takes a lot out of me blaming others.  Down deep, I'm just part of the rich and famous.
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 @Maximo Parker "The program", wow you need to educate yourself a bit and stop with the class warfare.
 @Maximo Parker You DO realize that even if they took ALL income, every single dime, of it,above a million dollar in earnings, it STILL wouldn't make much a dent in the deficit, right? like it would run the FedGov for less than three months? if we took 60% of everything above $250k in income, it wouldn't get us a lot further. There simply are not enough of them, and the top 10% of earners are ALREADY paying 70% of the tax burden.
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Hating on "the rich" and playing the class warfare card doesn't get enough revenue. EITHER tax rates have to go up WAY down into the middle class, and LOTS of deduction closed, or we have the spend less. Unless, of course, you hate your children so much you are OK with leaving them a bankrupt nation.
The GOP have put themselves in an epic mess with this Plan B joke. They now have less than zero leverage. They are the national laughingstock. A very large majority of the country now thinks they are "out of control and extreme." They just got walloped in the election. And with the tax cuts set to expire the laws are rigged against them as well.
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There is only one person who can come to the rescue of the Republican Party now, Barack Obama. And he will. Obama is dying to do the Great Bargain. He will do it at any and all costs. In fact, he actively wants to cut Social Security and Medicare because he has offered it up time and again. He can't wait for that pat on the back from the establishment when they finally call him bipartisan, above party politics, and a real statesman for screwing over his own voters (Again and again and again), the same voters that re-elected him to protect SSI and Medicare. This is by far his greatest wish.
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You watch, the GOP has zero leverage now and Obama will certainly cave like Obama always caves. He is the best right winger we've ever elected. Right now Obama has the ability and the leverage to get everything he said he wouldn't budge on but, he will lay down like every other time he had them over the barrel. If I am wrong, I'll eat crow forever and never show my face here again but I know I am right.
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I'll gladly eat crow if you dems agree that after he screws you this time, you finally acknowledge the corporatist for what he is and what he has done the the citizens and promise to get into the streets and retake the benefits you've worked and paid for.
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Agree or not, you will see that you've been had yet again.
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This is the same as it was during his first two years and had every opportunity to restore everything that had been stolen from the middle class, Close Gitmo, ban Lobbyists, Card check recognition, single payer, hold those responsible for financial crisis, blah, blah, etc etc the song is the same just now its taxing everything over 250k maintaining SSI and Medicare.
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There now is no reason whatsoever for him to give in in any to what they want but, he will, sure as I sit here.
I'm hedged against the economy. Please don't come back to work until Jan 2nd, and just start the printing press.
If our Goverment has time to take a vacation without doing thier job how about letting all the soldiers deployed take a Christmas break until the empty suits can figure out how to sacrifice one holiday like the men and women who choose to serve just like everyone in public service .
Both sides can shut it and stay at work until they solve the problem they have had for the last couple years. It is not like this just popped up.
Enough theater, just do what you're going to do anyway and steal the SSI and medicare that Obama put on the table weeks ago and, lets just let the rich go untouched like usual. Remember they get all the prosperity and we get all the bills.
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Lets hurry up and destroy a little more of what made this country the beacon of hope for the world besides, I like watching Americans getting screwed everyday for being too lazy to get up and put a stop to it.
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You guys can point to one party or the other to blame but, I blame everyone of you for your actions and inactions while this country was raped by the rich by using our bought off corrupt politicians against us. Your jobs aint coming back and you deserve the third world conditions your families will endure. Remember to give thanks as you dive into that dumpster.
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Do you still tell your children you love them? Or did you admit you couldn't possibly care less about them or their futures. Fiscal Cliff, indeed.
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"Republican House Speaker John Boehner said Obama himself must give more ground to reach an agreement. He added, "How we get there, God only knows."" Yeah - one reason is because you ain't even trying to look for a way there buddy.
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Yeah - and 'God only knows' that you ain't even trying to look for the way to get there buddy!
 @FormerMarineSgt Actually, Boehner did try a compromise, but his entire party ditched him. Guess he doesn't have the kind of power he thinks he does? Why don't they split the difference at $500,000 and call it a day?Â
 @Joy Johnson  @FormerMarineSgt That's what will end up happening. This is just like a car price negotiation at the dealership.. only way more public and on a much larger scale.
 @Joy Johnson  @FormerMarineSgt That is far too amicable and simple!Â
Take us over the cliff dammit! It's the only way to get tax hikes and proper spending cuts
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Boehner has more brain than other Repubs I can say !
McKenna is so right....time to change/clean up the whole Republican party !!!!
 @scychan I think McKenna is saying get rid of that "Ball and Chain" called the TEA Party.
 @scychan The problem isn't that a lot of folks know the party needs to change. The problem is that everyone has different ideas as to what would be the best direction. True of both parties.
 @RN1  @scychan "True of both parties."
Actually, there are (at least) three separate "parties" within the GOP...
The Moderates.
The Religious Right.
The Financial Conservatives.
None of these work together peacefully with any of the other 2.
@OrcasThunder The Tea Party seems to have been continuing to kick a lot of the moderates out for some time now so there appear to be even fewer moderates there now.
 @RN1  @FormerMarineSgt And I include the Libertarians pretty much in the GOP mix...and THEY are even MORE of a mix than the GOP!
 @FormerMarineSgt  @RN1 Yup. Misread that. He's right, as far as he goes. I was seeing an implication in his statement that the Dems were much more unified. But that fact that they are ALL dealing with such small numbers means that NONE of them are really trying to seriously solve the problem.
 @RN1  @scychan "Are you claiming the Dem party is monolithic?"
Nope. Just roasting your nuggets on the number of factions in the GOP...
 @Joy Johnson  @OrcasThunder  @RN1  @scychan In this big dysfunctional family, the parents come to the kids and complain about one another. Why is it we readers can all come to reasonable solutions for free in five minutes of discussion, while these morons getting PAID to lead our nation can't find the middle ground between 250 and 1000? They apparently sit w/ their thumbs up their butts all year.
 @OrcasThunder  @RN1  @scychan It's really sad. Why can't there just be a best practice party. All this in-fighting gets us no where fast. It seems like the Democrats what to be everything-to-everyone and the Republics don't want to be anything-to anyone. It's a like a big dysfunctional family. So what do you do with a big dysfunctional family when Mom wants to give it all away and Dad doesn't want to give anyone anything?
 @FormerMarineSgt You're right sarge but that is what the conversation has digressed to in this country for some time now. Kinda like tit for tat when there is nothing but solutions for this sad state and a lack of will to employ any one of them.
@RN1 -- geez RN. Relax a little. Orcas made no claims of democrat superiority on this. And you can't deny what Orcas said either.
 @OrcasThunder  @RN1  @scychan Are you claiming the Dem party is monolithic? Are you sure you want to claim Hank "Guam might tip over" Johnson, or some of the other, ah, less well-informed members of the group?
Taxes need to be raised daily on Congress and the President until they DO THEIR JOBS!!!
 @jjccamis I still like my idea of taking the deficit, dividing it by how many politicians there are in this country (State/Federal/Municipal/Etc) and each of them get a bill that results in automatic deductions from their paychecks. Let's see them try to live inside a budget like that like the rest of us do after all the meat is stripped from the bone (of our paychecks). Even the little taxes (like L&I, SS, etc.) all add up to where I'm working my tail off for 50% of what I earn. The other 50% goes to the government. Sad thing is, the other 50% goes to my mortgage, utilities, fuel, etc.....until I get to a net income of about $300.00 a month on a good month. If I could keep more of my own wages, I'd be a lot better off! And they wonder why consumers aren't spending enough during the holidays! Add to that the chances of a 3 or 4 thousand dollar tax hike on next year's returns.......Hello!
@Joy Johnson @political_i @jjccamis bwahahahaâ¦. They all might seem to be semi-good ideas until one realizes that any one of them would have to be put into a bill and passed through by all of guess who. But I guess we are all just joking around here. Much like the govt.
 @jjccamis how about they don't get their salaries until they complete their job?
Hope they just let the sequestration happen. Then maybe we'll have meaningful cuts to the military for a change. Going to hurt a lot of other people like myself too but I'm willing to put up with it if we just start getting this corrupt defense industry under control.
@Blindman  I have a sad prediction to make. Senators Murray and Cantwell will fight cuts to defense tooth and nail because of Boeing. Half of Boeing's revenue comes from us by means of government contracts. I hope I'm wrong.Â
 @lakeview Yup. Because they don't want solutions, they want pork and power. Just like pretty much everyone else there on the hill.
Jiggle bells, Cantor smells, Boehner laid an egg.
Obama's "you didn't build it" comment speaks volumes of his arrogance as he leaves the peoples business to go on vacation. Mr. President, business owners across this great country will be at work through the holidays while you take a vacation. You have wasted trillions of our dollars Mr. President, fix it!
 @javajoe Did you actually watch the entirety of what he said when he said "you didn't build it"? He was speaking to business owners about the roads and services that the government provides. The same roads and services they rely on to operate their businesses.
 @Jalharad  @javajoe And just who was it who paid for all those roads and stuff? Businesses and taxpayers. It wasn't a government came first, it was success that had profits that funded it all.
 @RN1  @Jalharad  @javajoe Actually, for the interstate system, it was the buildup of the military/industrial complex that funded it.
But as far as the "You didn't build it" statement, I read it as talking to the elite rich "self-made" mindset that Romney "Who needs government when you own a corporation?" personifies.
The point is, the road system we have today would not be possible without a government...unless you were willing to just give your land to the companies and then pay a toll. And the fact that every road that touches a border - State/County/City - actually matches and continues on another road is ONLY possible with government - because of governmental regulations and standards that make it so.
 @Jalharad  @javajoe The tax paying public builds the roads. I listened to the speech in entirety and he meant just what he said - summed up accurately with the one sentence, "if you own a business, you didn't build that!"  Liberals cannot understand that conservatives don't have a comprehension problem - we simply, fundamentally, disagree on what the role of government should be. We are against a nanny state, a government who tells us to shut up and be grateful for what it's done for us.Â
@Jalharad @javajoe  Amazing what people will believe when they hear a lie repeated over and over by Fox News.Â
@javajoe Meanwhile in reality, Obama's approval rating hit an all time high this week and we still need to pay for the trillions that Bush borrowed for his war against Gog and Magog in Iraq. Â
 @lakeview Now they are taking in 5 bill. a day and spending 11 bill., after President Obama takes more money from those evil rich people, assuming of course they all play along, we will take in 5.2 bill. a day and spend 11 bill. a day. I feel better now.
 @lakeview  @Alert But it's still an order of magnitude to large, and going down to slowly.
@Alert Eagle  Look I hear you. Spending is out of control. It was under W as well.Â
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But here are the facts: Our federal defict in 2012 was lower than 2011 and the lowest since 2008. It's going down.Â
I have to shake my head at the Republicans who are now saying that doing nothing is the best move - because it "wouldn't be a vote to raise taxes"...
 @OrcasThunder If it doesn't pass tax increases will be mandatory on the middle class and some of us lower income people. No one has come forward with a meaningful budget anyways.
 @Blindman The point is that they are rationalizing that as a way to claim that "they" did not vote for the hikes...
And it is the House responsibility to come up with a budget that will pass and be signed.
 @OrcasThunder  @Blindman Actually, yes and no. 'Scuse me while I pull a quote:"The Congressional Budget Act of 1974 stipulates that Congress must approve a budget resolution by April 15 of each year. In the Senate, only 51 votes are needed to pass a budget, as budgets are one of the few pieces of legislation invulnerable to a filibuster." It's a bicameral thing. The House has been passing budgets for three years, the Senate has not even been having votes on them (except for voting down Obama's proposals unanimously)
 @OrcasThunder I keep thinking that it's not so much the taxes as the spending. BOTH sides need to get real, or the 2016 election will make this last one seem downright congenial.
@RN1 Re: âthe 2016 election will make this last one seem downright congenialâ. You seem to be completely forgetting about the upcoming 2014 election. In 2014 the reps will wind up in an even worse position than they are in even now and then an even worse position than that in 2016. Go figure. Happy happy times.
 @RN1  @OrcasThunder This is correct RN. We can't tax our way to prosperity. Even if Obama had every single new tax he wanted, it would not even put the smallest dent in what we owe. Facts are facts. We have to cut spending or nothing will get done economically.
@RN1 @OrcasThunder And why do you think the House Republicans threw Boehner under the bus on his plan B? That bill contained zero spending cuts. He wasted his time and frankly his political capital/reputation on that.Â
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And what did Obama do today? He pleaded with Congress to do exactly what he pleaded with them to do weeks and weeks ago: pass the damn extensions for 98% of Americans and 97% of small businesses.Â