Man kills mother, then 26 at Conn. grade school
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NEWTOWN, Conn. (AP) — A man killed his mother at their home and then opened fire Friday inside an elementary school, massacring 26 people, including 20 children, as youngsters cowered in fear to the sound of gunshots reverberating through the building and screams echoing over the intercom.
The 20-year-old killer, carrying at least two handguns, committed suicide at the school, bringing the death toll to 28, authorities said.
The rampage, coming less than two weeks before Christmas, was the nation's second-deadliest school shooting, exceeded only by the Virginia Tech massacre that claimed 33 lives in 2007.
"Our hearts are broken today," a tearful President Barack Obama, struggling to maintain his composure, said at the White House. He called for "meaningful action" to prevent such shootings, saying, "As a country, we have been through this too many times."
Police shed no light on the motive for the attack. The gunman, Adam Lanza, was believed to suffer from a personality disorder and lived with his mother, said a law enforcement official who was briefed on the investigation but was not authorized to discuss it.
Panicked parents looking for their children raced to Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, a prosperous New England community of about 27,000 people 60 miles northeast of New York City. Police told youngsters at the kindergarten-through-fourth-grade school to close their eyes as they were led from the building so that they wouldn't see the blood and broken glass.
Schoolchildren — some crying, others looking frightened — were escorted through a parking lot in a line, hands on each other's shoulders.
Law enforcement officials speaking on condition of anonymity said that Lanza killed his mother, Nancy Lanza, then drove to the school in her car with at least three guns, including a high-powered rifle that he apparently left in the back of the vehicle, and shot up two classrooms around 9:30 a.m.
Authorities gave no details on exactly how the attack unfolded, but police radio traffic indicated the shooting lasted only a few minutes.
A custodian ran through the halls, warning of a gunman on the loose, and someone switched on the intercom, alerting people in the building to the attack — and perhaps saving many lives — by letting them hear the hysteria going on in the school office, a teacher said. Teachers locked their doors and ordered children to huddle in a corner or hide in closets as shots echoed through the building.
State police Lt. Paul Vance said 28 people in all were killed, including the gunman, and a woman who worked at the school was wounded. The school's principal was believed to be among the dead.
A law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said investigators believe Lanza attended the school several years ago but appeared to have no recent connection to the place.
At least one parent said Lanza's mother was a substitute teacher there. But her name did not appear on a staff list. And the law enforcement official said investigators were unable to establish any connection so far between her and the school.
Lanza's older brother, 24-year-old Ryan, of Hoboken, N.J., was being questioned, but a law enforcement official said he was not believed to have had a role in the rampage. Investigators were searching his computers and phone records, but he told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010.
The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the unfolding investigation.
At one point, a law enforcement official mistakenly identified the gunman as Ryan Lanza. Brett Wilshe, a friend of Ryan Lanza's, said Lanza told him the gunman may have had his identification. Ryan Lanza apparently posted Facebook page updates Friday afternoon that read, "It wasn't me" and "I was at work."
Robert Licata said his 6-year-old son was in class when the gunman burst in and shot the teacher. "That's when my son grabbed a bunch of his friends and ran out the door," he said. "He was very brave. He waited for his friends."
He said the shooter didn't utter a word.
Stephen Delgiadice said his 8-year-old daughter heard two big bangs. Teachers told her to get in a corner, he said. "It's alarming, especially in Newtown, Connecticut, which we always thought was the safest place in America," he said. His daughter was uninjured.
Theodore Varga was in a meeting with other fourth-grade teachers when he heard the gunfire. He said someone had turned on the intercom so that "you could hear people in the office. You could hear the hysteria that was going on. I think whoever did that saved a lot of people. Everyone in the school was listening to the terror that was transpiring."
Also, a custodian ran around, warning people there was someone with a gun, Varga said.
"He said, 'Guys! Get down! Hide!'" Varga said. "So he was actually a hero." The teacher said he did not know if the custodian survived.
Mergim Bajraliu, 17, said he heard the gunshots echo from his home and ran to check on his 9-year-old sister at the school. He said his sister, who was uninjured, heard a scream come over the intercom. He said teachers were shaking and crying as they came out of the building.
"Everyone was just traumatized," he said.
On Friday night, hundreds of people packed a Newtown church and stood outside in a vigil for the victims. People held hands, lit candles and sang "Silent Night" at St. Rose of Lima church. Anthony Bloss, whose three daughters survived the shootings, said they are doing better than he is. "I'm numb. I'm completely numb," he said at the vigil.
Mary Pendergast said her 9-year-old nephew was in the school at the time of the shooting but wasn't hurt after his music teacher helped him take cover in a closet.
Richard Wilford's 7-year-old son, Richie, told him that he heard a noise that sounded like "cans falling." The boy said a teacher went out to check on the noise, came back in, locked the door and had the children huddle in the corner until police arrived.
"There's no words," Wilford said. "It's sheer terror, a sense of imminent danger, to get to your child and be there to protect him."
On Friday afternoon, family members were led away from a firehouse that was being used as a staging area, some of them weeping. One man, wearing a T-shirt without a jacket, put his arms around a woman as they walked down the middle of the street, oblivious to everything around them. Another woman with tears rolling down her face walked by, carrying a car seat with a baby inside.
"Evil visited this community today and it's too early to speak of recovery, but each parent, each sibling, each member of the family has to understand that Connecticut — we're all in this together. We'll do whatever we can to overcome this event," Gov. Dannel Malloy said.
Adam Lanza and his mother lived in a well-to-do part of Newtown where neighbors are doctors or hold white-collar positions at companies such as General Electric, Pepsi and IBM.
At least three guns were found — a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car, authorities said. A law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said some of the guns used in the attack may have belonged to Lanza's mother, who had legally bought five weapons.
The shootings instantly brought to mind such tragedies as the Columbine High School massacre that killed 15 in 1999 and the July shootings at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., that left 12 dead.
"You go to a movie theater in Aurora and all of a sudden your life is taken," Columbine Principal Frank DeAngelis said. "You're at a shopping mall in Portland, Ore., and your life is taken. This morning, when parents kissed their kids goodbye knowing that they are going to be home to celebrate the holiday season coming up, you don't expect this to happen."
He added: "It has to stop, these senseless deaths."
Obama's comments on the tragedy amounted to one of the most outwardly emotional moments of his presidency.
"The majority of those who died were children — beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old," Obama said.
He paused for several seconds to keep his composure as he teared up and wiped an eye. Nearby, two aides cried and held hands as they listened to Obama.
"They had their entire lives ahead of them — birthdays, graduations, wedding, kids of their own," Obama continued about the victims. "Among the fallen were also teachers, men and women who devoted their lives to helping our children."
___
Associated Press writers Jim Fitzgerald and Pat Eaton-Robb in Newtown, Bridget Murphy in Boston, Samantha Henry in Newark, N.J., Pete Yost in Washington and Michael Melia in Hartford contributed to this report, as did the AP News Research Center.
The 20-year-old killer, carrying at least two handguns, committed suicide at the school, bringing the death toll to 28, authorities said.
The rampage, coming less than two weeks before Christmas, was the nation's second-deadliest school shooting, exceeded only by the Virginia Tech massacre that claimed 33 lives in 2007.
"Our hearts are broken today," a tearful President Barack Obama, struggling to maintain his composure, said at the White House. He called for "meaningful action" to prevent such shootings, saying, "As a country, we have been through this too many times."
Police shed no light on the motive for the attack. The gunman, Adam Lanza, was believed to suffer from a personality disorder and lived with his mother, said a law enforcement official who was briefed on the investigation but was not authorized to discuss it.
Panicked parents looking for their children raced to Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, a prosperous New England community of about 27,000 people 60 miles northeast of New York City. Police told youngsters at the kindergarten-through-fourth-grade school to close their eyes as they were led from the building so that they wouldn't see the blood and broken glass.
Schoolchildren — some crying, others looking frightened — were escorted through a parking lot in a line, hands on each other's shoulders.
Law enforcement officials speaking on condition of anonymity said that Lanza killed his mother, Nancy Lanza, then drove to the school in her car with at least three guns, including a high-powered rifle that he apparently left in the back of the vehicle, and shot up two classrooms around 9:30 a.m.
Authorities gave no details on exactly how the attack unfolded, but police radio traffic indicated the shooting lasted only a few minutes.
A custodian ran through the halls, warning of a gunman on the loose, and someone switched on the intercom, alerting people in the building to the attack — and perhaps saving many lives — by letting them hear the hysteria going on in the school office, a teacher said. Teachers locked their doors and ordered children to huddle in a corner or hide in closets as shots echoed through the building.
State police Lt. Paul Vance said 28 people in all were killed, including the gunman, and a woman who worked at the school was wounded. The school's principal was believed to be among the dead.
A law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said investigators believe Lanza attended the school several years ago but appeared to have no recent connection to the place.
At least one parent said Lanza's mother was a substitute teacher there. But her name did not appear on a staff list. And the law enforcement official said investigators were unable to establish any connection so far between her and the school.
Lanza's older brother, 24-year-old Ryan, of Hoboken, N.J., was being questioned, but a law enforcement official said he was not believed to have had a role in the rampage. Investigators were searching his computers and phone records, but he told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010.
The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the unfolding investigation.
At one point, a law enforcement official mistakenly identified the gunman as Ryan Lanza. Brett Wilshe, a friend of Ryan Lanza's, said Lanza told him the gunman may have had his identification. Ryan Lanza apparently posted Facebook page updates Friday afternoon that read, "It wasn't me" and "I was at work."
Robert Licata said his 6-year-old son was in class when the gunman burst in and shot the teacher. "That's when my son grabbed a bunch of his friends and ran out the door," he said. "He was very brave. He waited for his friends."
He said the shooter didn't utter a word.
Stephen Delgiadice said his 8-year-old daughter heard two big bangs. Teachers told her to get in a corner, he said. "It's alarming, especially in Newtown, Connecticut, which we always thought was the safest place in America," he said. His daughter was uninjured.
Theodore Varga was in a meeting with other fourth-grade teachers when he heard the gunfire. He said someone had turned on the intercom so that "you could hear people in the office. You could hear the hysteria that was going on. I think whoever did that saved a lot of people. Everyone in the school was listening to the terror that was transpiring."
Also, a custodian ran around, warning people there was someone with a gun, Varga said.
"He said, 'Guys! Get down! Hide!'" Varga said. "So he was actually a hero." The teacher said he did not know if the custodian survived.
Mergim Bajraliu, 17, said he heard the gunshots echo from his home and ran to check on his 9-year-old sister at the school. He said his sister, who was uninjured, heard a scream come over the intercom. He said teachers were shaking and crying as they came out of the building.
"Everyone was just traumatized," he said.
On Friday night, hundreds of people packed a Newtown church and stood outside in a vigil for the victims. People held hands, lit candles and sang "Silent Night" at St. Rose of Lima church. Anthony Bloss, whose three daughters survived the shootings, said they are doing better than he is. "I'm numb. I'm completely numb," he said at the vigil.
Mary Pendergast said her 9-year-old nephew was in the school at the time of the shooting but wasn't hurt after his music teacher helped him take cover in a closet.
Richard Wilford's 7-year-old son, Richie, told him that he heard a noise that sounded like "cans falling." The boy said a teacher went out to check on the noise, came back in, locked the door and had the children huddle in the corner until police arrived.
"There's no words," Wilford said. "It's sheer terror, a sense of imminent danger, to get to your child and be there to protect him."
On Friday afternoon, family members were led away from a firehouse that was being used as a staging area, some of them weeping. One man, wearing a T-shirt without a jacket, put his arms around a woman as they walked down the middle of the street, oblivious to everything around them. Another woman with tears rolling down her face walked by, carrying a car seat with a baby inside.
"Evil visited this community today and it's too early to speak of recovery, but each parent, each sibling, each member of the family has to understand that Connecticut — we're all in this together. We'll do whatever we can to overcome this event," Gov. Dannel Malloy said.
Adam Lanza and his mother lived in a well-to-do part of Newtown where neighbors are doctors or hold white-collar positions at companies such as General Electric, Pepsi and IBM.
At least three guns were found — a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both pistols, inside the school, and a .223-caliber rifle in the back of a car, authorities said. A law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said some of the guns used in the attack may have belonged to Lanza's mother, who had legally bought five weapons.
The shootings instantly brought to mind such tragedies as the Columbine High School massacre that killed 15 in 1999 and the July shootings at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., that left 12 dead.
"You go to a movie theater in Aurora and all of a sudden your life is taken," Columbine Principal Frank DeAngelis said. "You're at a shopping mall in Portland, Ore., and your life is taken. This morning, when parents kissed their kids goodbye knowing that they are going to be home to celebrate the holiday season coming up, you don't expect this to happen."
He added: "It has to stop, these senseless deaths."
Obama's comments on the tragedy amounted to one of the most outwardly emotional moments of his presidency.
"The majority of those who died were children — beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old," Obama said.
He paused for several seconds to keep his composure as he teared up and wiped an eye. Nearby, two aides cried and held hands as they listened to Obama.
"They had their entire lives ahead of them — birthdays, graduations, wedding, kids of their own," Obama continued about the victims. "Among the fallen were also teachers, men and women who devoted their lives to helping our children."
___
Associated Press writers Jim Fitzgerald and Pat Eaton-Robb in Newtown, Bridget Murphy in Boston, Samantha Henry in Newark, N.J., Pete Yost in Washington and Michael Melia in Hartford contributed to this report, as did the AP News Research Center.
KOMO and the other media outlets need to have some respect for that woman in the first photo. She is the sister of a teacher that was slain, and the pic was taken at the moment they told her that her sister had been killed. She has since said that it's like reliving that moment over and over, when the media uses that photo. Â Sick obsession with grief and violence, in the media. Â What possible purpose are you serving by revictimizing these people???Â
@DT I wish they would quit using that photo as well.
My cousin and I "11 and 15 Year old" are very sadden about Sandy Hooks Elementry shooting we have said prayers everyday and we believe that if one of the staff members could have carried some type of protection "pepper spray" or "?." possebly they could have used it and saved SOME of the victoms im not placing blame on the teachers, but they need to be protected to. So do all of the students of ANY Schools. this is a very tradgic moment for the poeple that have vave lost there LOVED ones. God bless us all !!!
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sending our prayers
Oh man, some of you are killin me.Â
1) Americans are patriotic. We are proud to live in a country that gives us freedom to protect ourselves, freedom to have a voice, and civil rights up the yin yang, including the right to have as many kids as we want (unlike China)! You want to take away my right as a 30 year old single mom to protect my two kids and my mother the only way I can, with a firearm. As I mentioned in another post, heaven forbid I'm left to defend myself against a man larger then me brandishing an illegal firearm.  Illegal drugs don't keep drugs off the street, what makes you think illegal firearms will keep those off the street? It's common sense. Â
2) You're really going to compare the China incident to this one? Those kids in China got very lucky that they lived, but that doesn't mean the could not have died. Someone else could have very well killed all of them just as well. They might have strict gun laws (I don't know), but we're also talking about the same country that regulates how many kids a family can have and forces abortions and sterilization on citizens. Is that really the direction you want this country to go?
3)Â In both China and CT and all over the world, regardless of which weapon was used, how many people died, or their ages, the SAME THREAT is evident in ALL cases...a suspect with mental issues.
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Taking away a person's right to bear arms will not take away mental disorders in our society. Period. We need to focus on teaching personal responsibility to everyone and providing emotional and medical support to those who need the help. Mood disorders such a Bipolar and Depression can be hard to recognize, but is common in many teens and adults. We need to show them they will not be shunned and that they have support. As friends and family members, we need to step in when we recognize it in someone and help them.Â
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One last thing, websites many of your are citing make your entire argument null. Wikpedia is a community source of information. I could go in there right now and publish that I was visited by aliens just now and some of you would believe it. There is a reason universities don't allow you to use it as a source for research papers. Also, the website that some blogger started to voice their opinion is not credible.
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So for now, lets just come together to mourn the innocent lives lost. The families who will not have their little ones running to the Christmas tree on Christmas morning to see if Santa came. Or those in the middle of celebrating Hannakuh. Their educators take with them. Mothers, fathers, daughters, and sons all taken too soon. May God be with their families and may they watch over and comfort their loved ones during this tragic time.Â
 @refinneJ yes, we protect your right to have a gun in your home which will (and the odds are overwhelming here) most likely be used against you by an intruder that surprises you, or will be stolen and used in another crime (why the hell do you gun people not get the clue that the reason gun violence has spiked is because of the rush on gun purchases pushed by the money grubbing NRA when Obama was elected?) and we protect your right to have your gun used by one of your kids in a moment of typical teen dispair to commit suicide, or used by an ex or angry boyfriend against you in a moment of rage.   Protecting the homestead? Not so much. This isn't the wild west.  Your odds of that are so minute that it doesn't make any of the more statistically probably outcomes worth it. Â
Evidently some basic research is past your capacities? Your points come STRAIGHT off the anti-gun sites....and have been proven time and time again to be DEAD WRONG.
Could all this gun violence have anything to do with the fact that the rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to get poorer? Those who are poor and ambitious find they can no longer earn a living wage because the jobs have either gone elsewhere or companies have downsized in order to justify increasingly huge CEO pay packages? Those who are poor and want to get education are stymied by college tuition costs that are escalating in excess of 10% per year? And when you do graduate from college, there are only three jobs available for every four or five graduates? The only decent paying vocations left seem to be the military, where you go off and learn how to kill and maim people in other countries -Â while our REAL enemies are homegrown and living right here in our midst killing and maiming our own people. It is all so senseless.
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This debate isn't about gun control. It's about the very basic fabric constituting American society. We need to collectively decide what we really want here in the USA and we need to do it fast.
 @Eduardo Capistrano No it has to do with simple mathematics. How many thousands and thousands of guns have been sold since 2008 because of the NRA's fear mongering panic buying???  That many more guns are on the street, in the hands of people "law abiding" people who use their guns in road rage incidents, in domestic violence incidents, neighbor disputes, suicides, etc. etc. etc.  And the answer to the increased violence since the gun boom???  Well.. buy MORE guns!! Brilliant. Â
This is a re-post from an earlier forum. I cannot find/remember who initially posted it...Thank you for finding it.it looks at how the media whips themselves into a frenzy during crisis or tragedy.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c89_1355545067
ok hers the thing, guns do not kill people, people kill people, and this shouldnt be about guns right now, its about little kids who lost their lifes, and familys that do not have their loved ones anymore, please remember that!
 @Nichole Danhof And it's about an unfeeling idiot who got hold of very deadly guns that did not belong to him and which he was not mentally qualified to be in control of - and who then used those guns to commit terrible mayhem.
When one actually compares gun availability and crime statistics in various nations, one thing becomes absolutely clear: more guns = more homicides, and less guns = less homicides. It is really just as simple as that. One can whine and moan all day long about other methods of murder, but the actual statistics put the lie to most such claims. There seems even a very slight positive correlation between availability of handguns and incidence of rape - although the only statistical significance would seem to be the lack of a negative correlation - that handguns do not statistically prevent rape.
And then there is that other disturbing statistic: that one is nearly twice as likely to commit suicide with a firearm as to kill anyone else or to be killed oneself by one at the hands of another - and 20% more likely to suicide by firearm than to become a homicide victim by any means whatsoever.
Or to paraphrase a rather famous statement by a very authoritative Person, those who take up firearms shall tend to perish by firearms.
 @JLS1950  @Nichole Danhof Indeed. But theres some other "clear" things to take into account.Â
When there are less guns there are more homicides, and quite possibly more than when there are more guns. In fact, the number of murders in the US has been going down but the number of guns has been going up substantially.  Your argument is the ol' there are more cars on the street so there are more accidents. Well duh. However as a relationship the number of guns is going up and the number of murders by gun as a percentage is going down. More importantly as people are left defenseless the number of violent crimes goes up as in UK etc. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/weapons.cfm
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/12/gun-background-checks-surge-across-usa/1765513/Â
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As for suicides, that is long held by anti-gunners as relevant but its complete hogwash. If someone wants to off themselves, the tool of choice is not relevant. The fact they do is. People like to claim that just because there is a gun around that suddenly someone is now going to commit suicide. Its likely that there are a few that do in fact impulsively kill themselves and the fact a gun is available makes it easier but typically suicide happens due to a long decline with depression and other factors and the idea that gun availability plays a great role in this is hogwash.
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As to the "those who take up firearms" saying. Quite correct. What it is talking about is someone who wants to become a gun slinger can expect to die from a firearm. Its not talking about the average joe with a cpl or someone having guns in their home.Â
 @SeattleJoe Hogwash, perhaps, but it is in your interpretation of statistics I think. I was just looking at a report comparing - by state - level of gun control and rate of homicide. There is a clear correlation showing that more gun control reduces gun homicide and perhaps all homicide. I was also just looking at the rates of non-firearm homicide in the U.S. and the U.K., and found that whereas in the U.S. this occurs at a rate or 1.22 per 100.000 population per year, the U.K. rate is 1.16. As 97% of homicides in the U.K. are NOT gun-related, and in the U.S. 70% of homicides ARE gun-related, one gets a pretty clear picture that gun restrictions in the U.K. are NOT forcing killers to adopt other means: they just aren't killing as much.
The UK does seem to have a high crime rate - however at first blush vandalism appears to be slightly more prevalent than all crimes of personal violence combined (including simple assault) followed then by motor vehicle theft, bicycle theft and other forms of theft. Homicide represents a very small proportion of violent crime there.
The gun-suicide rate in the U.S. appears to be about 5.75 (per 100,000 per year) and the non-gun suicide rate about 6.25 (for 12.00 total.) In the U.K, the gun suicide rate is about 0.17 and the non-gun rate appears to be about 6.73 (for 6.9 total.) So it may indeed be that suicidal British subjects are seeking other means... but if so they are not being so very successful with them!
And the original quote that I paraphrased actually comes in response to an act of "self defense" - not mercenary of vigilante action.
The fact of the matter is that the media, including KOMO, love to capitalize covering these kinds of stories. People are riveted right now to their television sets coast-to-coast to find out the latest gory details, the names of the victims, the shooters background, etc. etc. This sells advertising big time. Charities to help support the victims' families will sprout out of thin air. Probably less than half of them will be legitimate.
@Eduardo Capistrano I'm not so concerned about stories of victims and their families, or of mourners or others affected by the abominable crime: these people deserve to be remembered.
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But I very strongly believe that perpetrators should NOT BE MENTIONED BY NAME and their photographs NEVER DISPLAYED. Those who commit these abominations should be referred to only in the very most derogatory and contemptuous and shameful of terms, without granting them any fame, glory or even infamy whatsoever. Their very names should be blotted out of all news, their academic and other records and achievements stricken or sealed, and every effort made to forget about them and to deny others the means to remember them. They should be made pariahs in our society, never to be mentioned in press or polite company.
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In fact, I would go so far as to say that title to the very names and identities of these perpetrators should be turned over to a trust or trusts representing the victims, with provision that the trust have authority and responsibility to limit any use of the names as of any intellectual property or trademark, and to sue for injunctive relief and both real and punative damage against any use whatever of the criminals' names or life stories.
 @JLS1950 I agree. That said, almost all the online articles about Charles Manson refer to him in the most derogatory and contemptuous and shameful of terms. Yet he still commands a following from mentally deranged youth.
 @Eduardo Capistrano And the press keep reprinting his picture and stories about him. He needs to be consigned to PUBLIC OBLIVION - FORGOTTEN!
Conspiracy Theory: The Sandy Hook shooting was a setup by the White House to gain support for banning guns. They picked out this weirdo LOOZeer and a Fed posing as terrorist bribed Lanza with some whatever promises to do the deed. They got him the guns and had a co-conspirator kill him and his mother after the fact to hide the real truth. It's just now coming out that nobody at the school, where his mother was supposedly a teacher, knew her.  The White House is bunch of ruthless mofos who will do anything to advance their agenda. Think Fast & Furious......
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 @Biggg Donnn I know weed is now legal here but don't you think you'd have to smoke, say a pound, to believe this...?
 @Biggg Donnn Like all wing-nuts: must have run completely out of tinfoil...
 @Biggg Donnn It has now been reported that a Bushmaster .223 was the primary weapon used in these killings. (That was the same assault rifle used by Tacoma's famous Beltway Sniper, John Mohammed. Now the feds will probably want to institute a ban on assault rifles again. This will hurt all of our poor sportsmen and hunters.
 @Eduardo Capistrano Won't be able to get ten rounds into Bambi before he hits the ground?
Last I heard, there were limits on magazine sizes for hunting rifles in most states. I wonder if the Bushmaster is even allowed in the field during season...?
 @JLS1950  @Eduardo Capistrano "well, if there had been "limits on the number or rounds loaded"
Nope. It only takes a second or two to reload. They simply need to carry more magazines and reload more often. In the end a lunatic like this will still accomplish his horrific plan.
"As for casting wide nets," Â I have no issue with this. I did clear up some errors about hunters etc but I an relate similar stories. There are people I'd rather not have firearms but I'm not stupid enough to try to take them away from everyone to accomplish it.
"it is the gun lobby which consistently casts such a "wide net" over any and all attempts to keep guns out of the hands of mental defectives like this one."Â
Utter bull. The NRA and related do not block any reasonable attempts. But they do block gun grabs. If politicians presented bills that weren't thinly veiled attempts and grabbing everyones guns then the NRA wouldn't oppose them. The NRA has learned from a long history of dirty tricks by the anti-gunners and are now forced to oppose practically everything because they know that once a precedent is set the anti-gunners will take a mile from the inch given. If you wan the NRA to give in then stop the anti-gunners dirty tricks.
 @Eduardo Capistrano  @JLS1950 Sorry, actually I was responding to JLS's idiocy "Ten rounds into bambi" and such. But I do take issue with the "one purpose only" statement. It couldn't be further from the truth. Remember first that there are probably only a 1000 assault rifles in the US. Thats a wild guess by the way but the point is, there are very few and most people don't have the money or want to go through the substantial hoops to get one. Second, consider what the weapons we are talking about here are built for: Defense, hunting, target shooting, competition, plinking. The manufacturers are not building them for people to kill lots of people and the people buying them are not buying them to kill lots of people. Now its true the design is for rapid fire etc and that makes it deadly but given these are intended for the civilian market can we say that they are designed to kill lots and lots of people? I seriously doubt any of the designers of these weapons were designing them so they could kill lots and lots of people. Sure the military versions (which actually are assault rifles) are meant for this but the civilian versions are different (largely by federal law) but never the less made to be very different functionally but look nearly identical.Â
So, its pretty hard to say they are meant only for killing lots and lots of people when they are not designed for that, not manufactured for that and not bought for that (with the exception of a very few like the creep in CN).Â
 @SeattleJoe  @Eduardo Capistrano well, if there had been "limits on the number or rounds loaded" when this mental defective went into this school, we might have seen but a small fraction of the death toll... eh?
As for casting wide nets, first of all I merely related a true anecdote which demonstrates the stupidity of SOME "hunters" (at the very least of this one.) Note please that my dad was an avid hunter from his youth up until this incident.
Secondly, it is the gun lobby which consistently casts such a "wide net" over any and all attempts to keep guns out of the hands of mental defectives like this one. That is irresponsible, selfish and arrogant.
 @SeattleJoe  @JLS1950 Don't get so defensive, Joe. You obviously missed my point in bringing hunters into the picture. Gun advocates use every means possible to prevent bans on assault rifles. Any rational person knows that assault rifles were designed for one purpose only - to kill lots and lots of people.
 @JLS1950  @Eduardo Capistrano Firearms are not regulated during hunting season. At most there are calbre restrictions and in some cases limits on the number of rounds loaded. Most hunters are ethical and strive for one shot kills. There are a few that are stupid and will act as such but your assertions show you will stop at nothing to cast a wide net to badmouth people you disagree with.
 @JLS1950 That guy wasn't Dick Cheney, was it?
 @Eduardo Capistrano Sounds like the guy my dad told me he ran into in the woods while hunting at about age 40.
"Have you seen anything?"
"Well, no - not exactly SEEN anything - but I did have a couple of good 'sound shots'!"
My dad elected to move in the direct opposite direction - until he heard a gunshot and a cry behind him. Turning back in considerable trepidation he encountered the other hunter getting up from a patch of mud where he had clearly slipped and fallen completely supine. His rifle - slung behind him on its strap - had discharged during the fall, and the bullet had grazed the back of the man's head, leaving a bloody track. The fellow insisted he was okay and went on to continue his "hunt".
My dad never went hunting again.
 @Eduardo Capistrano  @JLS1950 Well aren't you just a little ray of sunshine! First it's defending hunters that want to grind the meat when they shoot it. And now it's seniors who are portrayed as blind and shaky. As a senior who is neither blind nor shaky, I would like to raspberry that statement no matter how many ;-)) you add to it.
 @JLS1950 My guess is that the Bushmaster is probably still allowed for aged hunters who no longer have a steady hand or who are almost blind. ;-))
Although this is most definitely a terrible, terrible tragedy, I don't really understand why everyone seems to be so surprised. I know this sounds callous to many because of the very young age of the victims. But these shootings have become a weekly event in the U.S. They used to occur only in the workplace. Then they started to happen at the malls. Then in our high schools. Then at our universities. Then to our movie theaters. Then to our churches. It was only a matter of time before it happened in an elementary school. We are powerless to stop them. Sadly, there is very little reason to believe that things will get better any time soon.
 @Eduardo Capistrano So what's your idea then? Just wring our hands and say woe-is-me? The root of these shootings doesn't sit only on the guns in this country. These people snapping when they do are a long time fermenting to get to this explosive conclusion. We send kids to school because their minds are open and absorbent. They can learn and remember pretty much anything. We don't wait until they are adults, it's much more difficult to teach an adult than a child. So something is going very wrong at an early point in these people's lives. Although rare, they are not unique. There will be more events like this. Problem is, how do we detect problems like this early on without labeling or stigmatizing the person? We as a society should be able to help those who need help but protect ourselves as well. Surely, greater minds than mine could come up with a plan? We pay all these tax dollars to put "smart" people to rule over us as politicians. Why can't they think of something instead of fighting over who's party will rise to the top?
 @Joy Johnson I honestly don't have any ideas. When I was younger, I thought gun control might be the answer. I no longer believe that because: 1) Too many people have too many guns. 2) Criminals and the mentally deranged will obtain guns whether they are legal or not. 3) We're rapidly getting to the point where we need to have guns to protect our individual safety. I agree with all you've said. The root causes of gun violence go much deeper into our social structure than most people realize. It is going to take some folks a lot smarter than me to figure this out.
A Culture That Condones The Killing Of Children And Teaches Children To Kill
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by Lucinda Marshal
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The Sandy Hook massacre isnât just about the need for gun control laws, it is about a culture that condones the killing of children and teaches children that killing is okay.
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It is about a country addicted to violence on television and movie screens.
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It is about cuts in education spending.
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It is about giving the military free access to our schools where they regale our children with romanticized delusions of military righteousness.
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It is about environmental and health policies that expose our children to all manner of toxins in the air, land and water.
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It is about thinking we have the right to kill children with drones or by dropping toxic munitions on their countries that cause birth defects and miscarriages.
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It is about saddling our children with crippling education debt and no prospect for jobs.
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It is about telling boys (and men) they have to be tough and to fight and kill for what they want or think is right.
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It is about a national policy that denies children basic rights and systemically teaches them that violence is okay.
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And it is about a media so insensitive that it thinks it is okay to shove a microphone in the face of young victims in the name of sensationalized 24/7 cable ânewsâ while under-reporting the root causes of this tragedy.
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Sandy Hook did not happen because of a lone, disturbed young man and it is not an isolated incident. It is an epidemic and we are all to blame. And today (and tomorrow and every day after that) is the time to confront this self-inflicted tragedy.
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Lucinda Marshall is the Founder and Director of the Feminist Peace Network, http://www.feministpeacenetwork.org. Â She is the author of the FPN blog as well as Reclaiming Medusa, http://www.lucindamarshall.com.
 @Totally Fed Up What condone? There is no condone. It's called Freedom. Everyone gets riled up regarding Freedom and the right to enjoy it or the efforts to restrict it. There are those that would deny us the privilege of freedom, even within our own government. But no one condones the bombing of cities. No one feels ok with all the military decisions that wreak havoc people's convictions of right and wrong. But the truth is, there are powers out there would just as soon see you and me dead....Our country destroyed....Our lands razed to the ground....Our people slaughtered. Why? Religious differences? Resource envy? Retribution for past offenses? Well here we are. This is what we have. We either roll over and play dead or we stand up to be counted on to make a difference. Which role would you like to take?
 @Joy Johnson You forgot the third option - the one this young "man" chose: join the other side and start killing our own people.
 @Joy Johnson You hit the nail on the head. The issue isn't about freedom, gun control, or anything else other then taking a focus on mental illness. If someone Is disturbed enough to do something like this, they will. With or without guns.Â
 @JLS1950 This young "man" chose an option to relieve his anger, frustration, hurt, pain, whatever was going on in his twisted mind. His freedom, my freedom, your freedom is not the problem here. The problem is, this kid was left to stew in his own juices for umpteen years and no one did anything. How many other stew pots are simmering ready to explode? When the media frenzy dies down about this, as it has with Oregon, Illinois, etc., still nothing will have changed. Until we face our demons and conquer them, we will continue down this road until the end of time.
 @Totally Fed Up An interesting mix of "spot-on" observations and left-wing lunacy.
 @RN1 Argumentum ad hominem, you say? I thought so!
How many more of these school, church, movie, and mall shootings (and overwhelmingly by Christian males) before people here start wondering how the Pakistanis, Afghanis, and Yemenis feel when their families are decimated by U.S. drones?
 @Totally Fed Up make that small-c "christian" please. Anyone can make the claim, but the number actually showing the fruit is always much smaller. And nobody is "born" Christian.
 @Totally Fed Up Wow, is there oxygen on your planet? Christian males? You know that for a fact. By your reckoning, more Christians are nuts than any other religion? Would this include those who fly commercial airplanes into building? Does their religion count? What does religion have to do with this? Did you read that somewhere? Because I missed it. Please, share where you read that his shooter was a Christian and on some kind of holy mission?
Why are there so many maniacs walking among us? We need to put dangerous people away where they can't harm others, like we did in the past.
 @Willow Put them away where? Snake pits like in the 40-50's? Padded rooms maybe? Should we all vote on a tax hike for that? Who's going to pay for all these facilities? Maybe they could just go in with the prison population. Criminals are nuts anyway...right? It would be much more effective to treat these mental and emotional problems early on instead of waiting until the option of shooting up a mall, church, university, school, farm, or any other place looks like one's only option to removing the pain in their lives.
 @Willow There have ALWAYS been nutters walking among us. *Always*. From the earliest recorded history, and every history since. Modern research put the number of psychopaths / sociopaths somewhere between 1% and 2% of the population. Somewhat more have other significant thinking malfunctions. Threat of punishment deters some. For others they simply need to be shot down like a rabid dog during their crime. There is no one "perfect" solution, you simply have to take a "layered" defensive approach, using deterrence, punishment, physical security (things like good locks), situational awareness, utilizing appropriate personal-defense training and equipment, reasonable psych services, police procedure, etc...
 @RN1 Doesn't mean we have to hand the nutters access to thermonudlear devices!
Maybe we can get all the right wingers in a big room to pray about it and then the incessant gun violence will just miraculously go away.
 @Eduardo Capistrano Right wingers? Do you even know what that means?
 @Joy Johnson  @Eduardo Capistrano I doubt it.Â
 @Eduardo Capistrano It might - but maybe only if we leave enough guns in that room.