No deal in sight as deadline for fiscal deal nears
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WASHINGTON (AP) - A last-gasp effort Thursday to avoid automatic tax increases and spending cuts got off on the same convulsive, partisan tone that marked congressional attempts to resolve the impasse before lawmakers headed home for Christmas.
With a Dec. 31 deadline for an agreement to avert the so-called "fiscal cliff" rapidly approaching, leaders in each party demanded the other side take the initiative. The new flare-up happened despite a round of calls President Barack Obama made to congressional leaders by phone Wednesday night from Hawaii before he boarded Air Force One to head home from vacation.
In a potential sign of movement, Republican leaders planned to bring the House back into session on Sunday evening. But what legislation they would act on, if anything, remained unclear.
The market was glum, with stocks falling for the fourth day in a row amid the stalled negotiations and a report that consumer confidence had plunged to its lowest level since August.
Obama arrived back in Washington in late morning, not long after Majority Leader Harry Reid took to the Senate floor to chastise House Republicans who last week opposed Speaker John Boehner's efforts to pass a narrowly crafted bill. Boehner's "Plan B" would have raised tax rates only on the very wealthiest Americans. But the opposition within his own party caucus forced the Ohio Republican to cancel a vote on the bill.
Reid charged Thursday that the House was "being operated with a dictatorship of the speaker."
"John Boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on sound financial footing," the Nevada Democrat said on the Senate floor.
Upon returning from a brief vacation, Obama faced what has become a familiar eleventh-hour scenario - one the GOP says is his fault - and even a stopgap solution was in doubt.
Without congressional action, current tax rates will expire on Dec. 31, resulting in a $536 billion tax increase that would touch nearly all Americans. Moreover, the military and other federal departments would have to cut $110 billion in spending.
But while economists have warned about the economic impact of tax hikes and spending cuts of that magnitude, both sides are increasingly proceeding as if Congress could still act in January in time to retroactively counter the effect on most taxpayers and government agencies without causing economic harm.
The issue has been Obama's first test of muscle after his re-election in November. Obama ran on a theme of having the wealthy pay a greater share toward deficit reduction with a focus on raising upper tax rates for individuals earning $200,000 or more and couples making more than $250,000. In negotiations with Boehner toward a deficit reduction plan of more than $2 trillion over 10 years, he offered to increase that threshold to $400,000, but those negotiations collapsed.
House GOP leaders this week put the burden on Reid, urging him in a statement Wednesday to take up a House-passed bill that would extend current tax rates to all taxpayers, a bill Obama has vowed to veto.
Reacting to Reid's floor remarks Thursday, Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck said: "Harry Reid should talk less and legislate more if he wants to avert the fiscal cliff. The House has already passed legislation to do so."
The White House said Obama, before leaving Hawaii, called Boehner, Reid, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. The White House statement said the president got an update on the "fiscal negotiations," but offered no detail on who, exactly, was negotiating and whether those talks were getting anywhere.
McConnell's office said Obama's phone call was the first from a Democrat on the fiscal cliff since Thanksgiving.
Last Friday, Obama and Reid voiced support for a proposal that would extend current rates to individuals earning up to $200,000 and families earning up to $250,000. Taxpayers above those thresholds would see their top rates rise. The proposal would have included extended aid to unemployed workers and some surgical cuts to avoid steeper and broader spending cuts.
For the Senate to act, it would require a commitment from McConnell not to demand a 60-vote margin to consider the legislation on the Senate floor. McConnell's office says it's too early to make such an assessment because Democrats have not put forward a specific plan and have been unclear on whether extended benefits for the unemployed would be paid for with cuts in other programs or on how it would deal with an expiring estate tax, among other issues.
The questions hanging over Washington Thursday centered on whether Reid would offer a specific piece of legislation, whether McConnell would allow it to proceed to a vote on the Senate floor and, if the Senate bill passed, whether Boehner would schedule a House vote on it. All those issues remained unresolved, and success before the end of the year appeared a long shot at best.
Reid said the GOP-controlled House easily could have passed a White House-approved plan with a majority of Democratic votes and a few dozen Republican votes. But House leaders generally avoid such tactics, because they might alienate the Republican caucus and jeopardize the speaker's job.
The House has passed a Republican plan to avert the fiscal cliff, and the Senate has passed a Democratic version. Their deficit-reduction projections differ by hundreds of billions of dollars over 10 years.
Adding to the mix of developments pushing toward a "fiscal cliff," Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Wednesday informed Congress that the government was on track to hit its borrowing limit on Monday and said he would take "extraordinary measures as authorized by law" to postpone a government default.
Still, Geithner added, uncertainty about the outcome of negotiations over taxes and spending made it difficult to determine how much time those measures would buy.
With a Dec. 31 deadline for an agreement to avert the so-called "fiscal cliff" rapidly approaching, leaders in each party demanded the other side take the initiative. The new flare-up happened despite a round of calls President Barack Obama made to congressional leaders by phone Wednesday night from Hawaii before he boarded Air Force One to head home from vacation.
In a potential sign of movement, Republican leaders planned to bring the House back into session on Sunday evening. But what legislation they would act on, if anything, remained unclear.
The market was glum, with stocks falling for the fourth day in a row amid the stalled negotiations and a report that consumer confidence had plunged to its lowest level since August.
Obama arrived back in Washington in late morning, not long after Majority Leader Harry Reid took to the Senate floor to chastise House Republicans who last week opposed Speaker John Boehner's efforts to pass a narrowly crafted bill. Boehner's "Plan B" would have raised tax rates only on the very wealthiest Americans. But the opposition within his own party caucus forced the Ohio Republican to cancel a vote on the bill.
Reid charged Thursday that the House was "being operated with a dictatorship of the speaker."
"John Boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on sound financial footing," the Nevada Democrat said on the Senate floor.
Upon returning from a brief vacation, Obama faced what has become a familiar eleventh-hour scenario - one the GOP says is his fault - and even a stopgap solution was in doubt.
Without congressional action, current tax rates will expire on Dec. 31, resulting in a $536 billion tax increase that would touch nearly all Americans. Moreover, the military and other federal departments would have to cut $110 billion in spending.
But while economists have warned about the economic impact of tax hikes and spending cuts of that magnitude, both sides are increasingly proceeding as if Congress could still act in January in time to retroactively counter the effect on most taxpayers and government agencies without causing economic harm.
The issue has been Obama's first test of muscle after his re-election in November. Obama ran on a theme of having the wealthy pay a greater share toward deficit reduction with a focus on raising upper tax rates for individuals earning $200,000 or more and couples making more than $250,000. In negotiations with Boehner toward a deficit reduction plan of more than $2 trillion over 10 years, he offered to increase that threshold to $400,000, but those negotiations collapsed.
House GOP leaders this week put the burden on Reid, urging him in a statement Wednesday to take up a House-passed bill that would extend current tax rates to all taxpayers, a bill Obama has vowed to veto.
Reacting to Reid's floor remarks Thursday, Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck said: "Harry Reid should talk less and legislate more if he wants to avert the fiscal cliff. The House has already passed legislation to do so."
The White House said Obama, before leaving Hawaii, called Boehner, Reid, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. The White House statement said the president got an update on the "fiscal negotiations," but offered no detail on who, exactly, was negotiating and whether those talks were getting anywhere.
McConnell's office said Obama's phone call was the first from a Democrat on the fiscal cliff since Thanksgiving.
Last Friday, Obama and Reid voiced support for a proposal that would extend current rates to individuals earning up to $200,000 and families earning up to $250,000. Taxpayers above those thresholds would see their top rates rise. The proposal would have included extended aid to unemployed workers and some surgical cuts to avoid steeper and broader spending cuts.
For the Senate to act, it would require a commitment from McConnell not to demand a 60-vote margin to consider the legislation on the Senate floor. McConnell's office says it's too early to make such an assessment because Democrats have not put forward a specific plan and have been unclear on whether extended benefits for the unemployed would be paid for with cuts in other programs or on how it would deal with an expiring estate tax, among other issues.
The questions hanging over Washington Thursday centered on whether Reid would offer a specific piece of legislation, whether McConnell would allow it to proceed to a vote on the Senate floor and, if the Senate bill passed, whether Boehner would schedule a House vote on it. All those issues remained unresolved, and success before the end of the year appeared a long shot at best.
Reid said the GOP-controlled House easily could have passed a White House-approved plan with a majority of Democratic votes and a few dozen Republican votes. But House leaders generally avoid such tactics, because they might alienate the Republican caucus and jeopardize the speaker's job.
The House has passed a Republican plan to avert the fiscal cliff, and the Senate has passed a Democratic version. Their deficit-reduction projections differ by hundreds of billions of dollars over 10 years.
Adding to the mix of developments pushing toward a "fiscal cliff," Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Wednesday informed Congress that the government was on track to hit its borrowing limit on Monday and said he would take "extraordinary measures as authorized by law" to postpone a government default.
Still, Geithner added, uncertainty about the outcome of negotiations over taxes and spending made it difficult to determine how much time those measures would buy.
Again : The cliff is about cancelling the George Bush tax cut and re-instating the Bill Clinton tax rate. What liberal wouldn't want that?
There will be no negotiation. There will be no compromise. Here is how it will play out: the Republicans, the Koch Brothers, the Herman Cains, all the Super Rich aren't in a hurry to take action. The Super Rich aren't going to go hungry when the rates go higher. Sure they have to pay a few million more. Remember that. The Super Rich can burn millions and shrug it off. More realistically, they will give themselves their bonuses while cutting employee jobs and services. The Super Rich have all the time in the world. The Fiscal Cliff is a amusing ant hill when viewed from their corporate jets.
 @pastrami The Koch brothers? Are you nuts? George Soros has more money in politics and controls more politicians that anyone. A George Soros funded group called the Apollo Alliance wrote the stimulus package and Soros picked where the money went and invested in those companies...made millions.... another limousine liberal
in other news, republicans are seeking to replace Boehner as speaker with somoene...  who might not even be a member of congress.Â
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/report-right-wingers-plot-coup-oust-boehner-house-speaker
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  this is what happens when you mix guns, home schooling, and science based on a book written by a bunch of guys wandering the desert.
OH.MY.GOD.
the stupid... it burns..
 @T H I S Wow. that would be amazing. A speaker that didn't get owned on his (her) way to the top. I am all for that.
 @T H I S Boehner and his tea bagger fiends still put their loyalty to Grover Nordquist instead of their country. Shame on them.Â
 @Darn it!  @T H I S At least they are not loyal to a dead moron like Karl Marx.
The Senate has been controlled by democrats for the last 5 years (soon to be 7), and they've done NOTHING as far as defining a sustainable budget. Any proposal by the republican House goes NOWHERE. And the current PotUS couldn't care less.
Great job liberals.
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Exactly WHAT are you doing to address the issue? Not a damn thing. Yer all content in destroying our Nation and pointing fingers. With the help of the government controlled media, the sheep just fall in line on the way to the slaughterhouse. And you find it amusing and comforting.
@bobalouie
The Republicans: put us twelve trillion in the hole intentional; sent all the jobs overseas; put us in two Wars; crash the economy; and, now are doing nothing. By the way your math is wrong too.  The Republican took control of the house in 2010 and have been filibustering everything in the Senate over the past four years. The filibuster rule is about to change in the Senate.  Â
 @LiberalChuck  @bobalouie I have my fingers crossed that they will change the filibuster rule. Better late than never.Â
@bobalouie -- and I see that the fact that the house passed nothing but one sided extremist bills intended to do nothing but placate the right wing extremists AND knowing that these bills were so radically right wing that they stood no chance of surviving the republicans in the senate, let alone the democrats there has no bearing in your damning of democrats.
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Fascinating.
That's the problem with liberals. Anything that might send them in the other direction is radical and extremist!
The ONLY way they'll 'compromise' is if it's to their favor. Compromise doesn't exist as defined in any dictionary I'm aware of when it comes to liberals.
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Fascinating indeed.
 @bobalouie Sgt is correct and i you opened your eyes and ears you would know it.Â
How do you negotiate when you're dealing with this?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-A09a_gHJc
The shameless Republicanâs goal over the past 30 years has been to grow the US debt by using a strategy coined by them called "Starving the beast". This strategy increases the debt by cutting taxes while at the same time not balancing these cuts with an equal amount of spending reductions. Now the same identical Republicans that created this debt calmer about programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid being the problem. When the real problem was them is the first place. The old real Republican had the guts to cut programs not these pseudo Republicans. You do not believe thisâ¦? When Regan had the Republican Senate and ideological Republican House and Bush had a both a Republican Senate and House for 6 years, did thy try to balance the tax breaks they gave with budget cutsâ¦? Of courses they did not. They borrowedâ¦and borrowedâ¦and borrowed. Regan gave us 5 trillion of wasteful defense spending and the S&L bailout while Bush added 6 trillion starting the Iraq War and giving us Medicare part D neither which were paid for. It is time for their rich supporters that promoted these ideas to pay up with higher taxes.
You are so right, they, dems and rep are one in the same. But the last couple of elections republicans saw the truth and voted in those who were REAL republicans. The Demo's, the Rhino's and the media hate them, they are tea party candidates. They are not racists, they are not haters but have one objected, LIMIT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL PLACE. Socail policy is not a real hangup for them either. A free people should make so many decisions for themselves that the government (all branchs) now makes for them.
@FED__UP Then why did your little Tea Party darling Paul Ryan support all those George W. Bush deficit budgets. I guess they were trying to run up the debt. What about Medicare  part D they didn't pay for either.  Dick Army and the Koch brothers just want to control the people instead of "We the People." The biggest joke is the Tea Party saying they are not Republicans.
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It's pretty sad when a politician puts his career and reelection before the welfare of the country. They should run him out of town on a rail. Perhaps it's time they all sit in chambers until they can resolve this. They've had their Christmas vacations and now they should be held to task until this business is finished. Putting it off until later next year shouldn't even be an option.
 @Jatok The really sad part is MOST of the pols put reelection ahead of country. In every country, throughout most of time where there are elections. Those that don't get no support from their own party because they are not "playing ball", and they are replaced by someone the establishment likes because they play the game for the benefit of the "leaders."
@RN1 That pretty much sums it up. Our government is really a "good ole boys" club and unless you are very well healed and play the game you aren't going to be able to run or win.
Glad to see President Obama doing his best at absolutely nothing..
 @Windowseat Yeah, because he can call all the shots in Congress?
@Windowseat - So it's just Obama eh?
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And the absolute obstructionism of the House Republicans means nothing?
And the fact that the House Leaders are off trotting around doing nothing to help fix the deficit or the fiscal cliff also means nothing?
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It's amazing how much right wing misbehavior that folks will accept while they damn Democrats (usually Obama directly) for pulling 1/10th the dirty political tricks...
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It really is amazing how much of the koolaid that folks like you will drink willingly.
The house is doing what it was elected to do, negotiate on behalf of the 47% who don't support Obama's policies.
 @FED__UP The house isn't doing squat. They are still on vacation. The teabaggers won't let them negotiate. It's their way or the highway.Â
Ah so the president is the only who can work away from DC? Â I seem to remember in Aug the house stayed in session while the senate and the presdient went off on vacation. That is when all this should have been taken care of not just days before we reach the cliff.
 @TehHawt  @FED__UP They  are doing nothing. They aren't even in town.
 @FED__UP You can't even use the word "negotiate" with regard to what the GOP is doing right now.
 @FormerMarineSgt  @Windowseat Obama is back early from his Christmas holiday. But wait, congressional seats are empty. Where is everyone else? I guess there is no reason for the House to come back. Boehner is handcuffed  to the teabaggers so we will go over the cliff.Â
Families making 250,000 dollars are by no means rich. Try sending your kids to college, own a home, own two cars, and take care of the family medically....250,000 runs out quick. Tax the millionaires/billionaires, not the ones who are working day in and day out trying to support their families.Â
 @cna7 Yes tax whatever group YOU do not belong to.
 @cna7 Try telling that to Obama and Reid.
 @cna7 what do the evil rich do? If they spend their money it boosts the economy, if they save it there is more in the bank for me to borrow, if they invest it they create jobs..... so so evil :)
 @MonroeMad MonroeMad or morondad? Which is it cowboy, because you are some kind of stupid.
 @MonroeMad  @cna7 I guess so if you are borrowing money from banks in the Caymen Islands.
So tired of hearing Obama trying to make Americans believe the rich are evil and don't "pay their fair share". Â They already pay more in taxes than the rest of us taxpayers, and don't forget the 47% who pay NOTHING. Â If Obama has his way, he'll be taking everybody's money so that we all rely on government to take care of us. Â How about cutting spending? Â Government does nothing efficiently including financially. Â Why doesn't Obama set an example by, say, not trekking off to Hawaii, etc. on the taxpayer's dime? Â You know what went through my mind when I heard that he was rushing back early from Hawaii due to the fiscal cliff? Â So, his family stays behind, enjoying their Hawaiian vacation along with secret service and other expenses, and then flies back separately - more taxpayer expense. Â I'm not knocking the first family taking a vacation, but how about setting an example?
@Indispensableone - let's tell the truth here. Enough with the lies.
1) Obama doesn't call the rich evil.Â
2) Obama wants the 'rich' to pay thier fair share. They are paying less than at anytime in many, many decades. Far less than during the last few economic 'booms'.Â
3) Show me any recent year where Republicans have actually and seriously cut spending....  You won't find any. Not even when they were in power.  So don't pee in the wind over Obama when all you've recieved from Republicans is TALK and no action.
4) And if you want to whine about Obama taking vacations, he can still work - doing 100% of what a President is supposed to because of Air Force One and his team that goes with him. Unlike the House of Representatives who can't when they abandon the fiscal cliff negotations and go on Christmas Vacation...    He has set an example - he came back IMMEDIATELY after Christmas day to be there so that IF the high and mighty Boehner deemed to show his face to negotiate this problem, that he would be physically present and ready.Â
You can spin this anyway you want, but the facts don't back up the 'blame Obama' game.
 @FormerMarineSgt  @Indispensableone Wow - ok, first of all, I did not say Obama called the rich, evil - I said by telling the American people they don't pay their fair share, he is portraying them as evil.  Second, I said nothing about Democrats and Republicans.  Third, my point regarding the vacations was the resulting taxpayer expense of two separate vacation trips by the Obamas.  You basically took everything I said and turned it into whatever fit into your own agenda.  Please be respectful of other people's opinions.
Go to opensecrets.org and see where your senators get the money. Trial lawyers and unions elect them not you.
 @MonroeMad You seriously believe that? How many other morons from monroe believe that 7% of the workforce elects politicians? A union is nothing more then a group of US citizens with a community of interest in the workplace exercising their right to assembly, representation, and association as protected in the constitution. Dont like it? Get the hell out then!
 @T_BONE_WALKER go to opensecrets.org and see where Rick Larson gets his money. Those are his bosses.
 @T_BONE_WALKER all I know that I called and wrote to my rep Rick Larson for years and just got the finger. i was finally told that if I wasn't part of the machinist union, don't call back. That is who he works for.
 @MonroeMad Monroemaid I dont believe any of your tripe and doubt you could find a friend.
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I dont see any dem worth voting for anywhere except two whether someone's union wants me too or not.
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Unions are groups of workers, groups of workers have very little leverage on who I vote for. I didnt vote for Obama either time and I was right, he is as big of a war criminal as bush was.
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Theres your argument, for the dems: If you called bush a war criminal you must call obama one also because of his unlawful acts of war against Iran and Pakistan and multiple airspace violations that resulted in innocent families being slaughtered that he refers to as "collateral damage" that the US would have thrown a hissy fit over had it happened here. Or how about 11 former Golman Sachs employees on the administration starting with Rahm Emanuel, you remember Rahm the one attacking Chicago unions? Thats all Obama is, is a smarter bush.
@MonroeMad wrote "Â i was finally told that if I wasn't part of the machinist union, don't call back."
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I seriously doubt that htis happened. Not even with Larson's people. get real dude.
 @MonroeMad  @T_BONE_WALKER I have written Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray numberous times and I have always received a lengthy response.Â
 @T_BONE_WALKER I know quite a few business owners who had the same experience. Anyone who votes Democrat because that what the union tells them to do is a moron.
 @MonroeMad I think you're a liar and a moron.
once again the middle class has to pay for our inept congress who live the good life and have it all at the expense of the taxpayer. It's time to re-rack these bickering losers. If your are an incumbant time to look for work next election
Only republicans need worry. Democrats don't care if their reps become felons, they still re-elect them. BUt then that is why Boehner is having such a hard time. Republicans have been primaried out the last 2 elections and it's not going to stop there. They need to focus on CUTTING the reach of the federal government or don't bother to run again.
Take away their pay and lock them in the halls of Congress until they do something productive. I'm sick and tired of both Democrats and Republicans taking care of themselves, and taking lobbying money, while doing absolutely nothing for the people they are supposed to "represent".