Should voters have to prove citizenship to register?

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court will consider the validity of an Arizona law that tries to keep illegal immigrants from voting by demanding all state residents show documents proving their U.S. citizenship before registering to vote in national elections.
The high court will hear arguments Monday over the legality of Arizona's voter-approved requirement that prospective voters document their U.S. citizenship in order to use a registration form produced under the federal "Motor Voter" voter registration law that doesn't require such documentation.
This case focuses on voter registration in Arizona, which has tangled frequently with the federal government over immigration issues involving the Mexican border. But it has broader implications because four other states - Alabama, Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee - have similar requirements, and 12 other states are contemplating similar legislation, officials say.
The Obama administration is supporting challengers to the law.
If Arizona can add citizenship requirements, then "each state could impose all manner of its own supplemental requirements beyond the federal form," Solicitor General Donald B. Verrilli Jr. said in court papers. "Those requirements could encompass voluminous documentary or informational demands, and could extend to any eligibility criteria beyond citizenship, such as age, residency, mental competence, or felony history."
A federal appeals court threw out the part of Arizona's Proposition 200 that added extra citizenship requirements for voter registration, but only after lower federal judges had approved it.
Arizona wants the justices to reinstate its requirement.
Kathy McKee, who led the push to get the proposition on the ballot, said voter fraud, including by illegal immigrants, continues to be a problem in Arizona. "For people to conclude there is no problem is just shallow logic," McKee said.
The Associated Press reported in September that officials in pivotal presidential election states had found only a fraction of the illegal voters they initially suspected had existed.
In Colorado, election officials found 141 noncitizens on the voter rolls, which was 0.004 percent of the state's nearly 3.5 million voters. Florida officials found 207, or 0.001 percent of the state's 11.4 million registered voters. In North Carolina, 79 people admitted to election officials that they weren't citizens and were removed from the rolls, along with 331 others who didn't respond to repeated inquires.
Opponents of Arizona's law see it as an attack on vulnerable voter groups such as minorities, immigrants and the elderly. They say Arizona's law makes registering more difficult, which is an opposite result from the intention of the 1993 National Voter Registration Act.
Proposition 200 "was never intended to combat voter fraud," said Democratic state Sen. Steve Gallardo of Phoenix. "It was intended to keep minorities from voting."
With the additional state documentation requirements, Arizona will cripple the effectiveness of neighborhood and community voter registration drives, advocates say. More than 28 million Americans used the federal "Motor Voter" form to register to vote in the 2008 presidential elections, according to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.
An Arizona victory at the high court would lead to more state voting restrictions, said Elisabeth MacNamara, the national president of the League of Women Voters.
Opponents of the Arizona provision say they've counted more than 31,000 potentially legal voters in Arizona who easily could have registered before Proposition 200 but who were blocked initially by the law in the 20 months after it passed in 2004. They say about 20 percent of those thwarted were Latino.
Arizona officials say they should be able to pass laws to stop illegal immigrants and other noncitizens from getting on their voting rolls. The Arizona voting law was part of a package that also denied some government benefits to illegal immigrants and required Arizonans to show identification before voting.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the voter identification provision. The denial of benefits was not challenged.
Opponents "argue that Arizona should not be permitted to request evidence of citizenship when someone registers to vote, but should instead rely on the person's sworn statement that he or she is a citizen," Arizona Attorney General Thomas C. Horne said in court papers.
"The fallacy in that is that someone who is willing to vote illegally will be willing to sign a false statement. What (opponents) are urging is that there should be nothing more than an honor system to assure that registered voters are citizens. That was not acceptable to the people of Arizona."
The Arizona proposition was enacted into law with 55 percent of the vote.
This is the second voting issue the high court is tackling this session. Last month, several justices voiced deep skepticism about whether a section of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, a law that has helped millions of minorities exercise their right to vote, especially in areas of the Deep South, was still needed.
This case involves laws of more recent vintage.
The federal "Motor Voter" law, enacted in 1993 to expand voter registration, allows would-be voters to fill out a mail-in voter registration card and swear they are citizens under penalty of perjury, but it doesn't require them to show proof.
Under Proposition 200 approved in 2004, Arizona officials require an Arizona driver's license issued after 1996, a U.S. birth certificate, a passport or other similar document, or the state will reject the federal registration application form.
This requirement applies only to people who seek to register using the federal mail-in form. Arizona has its own form and an online system to register when renewing a driver's license. The court ruling did not affect proof of citizenship requirements using the state forms.
State officials say more than 90 percent of those Arizonans applying to vote using the federal form will be able to simply write down their driver's license number, and all naturalized citizens simply will be able to write down their naturalization number without needed additional documents.
Former Arizona Senate President Russell Pearce, a leading Republican proponent of Proposition 200, strongly disputed claims that Arizona doesn't have voter fraud problems. "They turn a blind eye," Pearce said of the state's election officials.
But Karen Osborne, elections director for Maricopa County, where nearly 60 percent of Arizona's voters live, said voter fraud is rare, and even rarer among illegal immigrants.
"That just does not seem to be an issue," Osborne said of the claim that illegal immigrants are voting. "They did not want to come out of the shadows. They don't want to be involved with the government."
The main legal question facing the justices is whether the federal law trumps Arizona's law. A 10-member panel of the 9th Circuit in San Francisco said it did.
The appeals court issued multiple rulings in this case, with a three-judge panel initially siding with Arizona. A second panel that included retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who from time to time sits on appeals courts, reversed course and blocked the registration requirement. The full court then did the same, and that decision will be reviewed by the justices in Washington.
The case is 12-71, Arizona v. Inter Tribal Council of Arizona, Inc.
The high court will hear arguments Monday over the legality of Arizona's voter-approved requirement that prospective voters document their U.S. citizenship in order to use a registration form produced under the federal "Motor Voter" voter registration law that doesn't require such documentation.
This case focuses on voter registration in Arizona, which has tangled frequently with the federal government over immigration issues involving the Mexican border. But it has broader implications because four other states - Alabama, Georgia, Kansas and Tennessee - have similar requirements, and 12 other states are contemplating similar legislation, officials say.
The Obama administration is supporting challengers to the law.
If Arizona can add citizenship requirements, then "each state could impose all manner of its own supplemental requirements beyond the federal form," Solicitor General Donald B. Verrilli Jr. said in court papers. "Those requirements could encompass voluminous documentary or informational demands, and could extend to any eligibility criteria beyond citizenship, such as age, residency, mental competence, or felony history."
A federal appeals court threw out the part of Arizona's Proposition 200 that added extra citizenship requirements for voter registration, but only after lower federal judges had approved it.
Arizona wants the justices to reinstate its requirement.
Kathy McKee, who led the push to get the proposition on the ballot, said voter fraud, including by illegal immigrants, continues to be a problem in Arizona. "For people to conclude there is no problem is just shallow logic," McKee said.
The Associated Press reported in September that officials in pivotal presidential election states had found only a fraction of the illegal voters they initially suspected had existed.
In Colorado, election officials found 141 noncitizens on the voter rolls, which was 0.004 percent of the state's nearly 3.5 million voters. Florida officials found 207, or 0.001 percent of the state's 11.4 million registered voters. In North Carolina, 79 people admitted to election officials that they weren't citizens and were removed from the rolls, along with 331 others who didn't respond to repeated inquires.
Opponents of Arizona's law see it as an attack on vulnerable voter groups such as minorities, immigrants and the elderly. They say Arizona's law makes registering more difficult, which is an opposite result from the intention of the 1993 National Voter Registration Act.
Proposition 200 "was never intended to combat voter fraud," said Democratic state Sen. Steve Gallardo of Phoenix. "It was intended to keep minorities from voting."
With the additional state documentation requirements, Arizona will cripple the effectiveness of neighborhood and community voter registration drives, advocates say. More than 28 million Americans used the federal "Motor Voter" form to register to vote in the 2008 presidential elections, according to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.
An Arizona victory at the high court would lead to more state voting restrictions, said Elisabeth MacNamara, the national president of the League of Women Voters.
Opponents of the Arizona provision say they've counted more than 31,000 potentially legal voters in Arizona who easily could have registered before Proposition 200 but who were blocked initially by the law in the 20 months after it passed in 2004. They say about 20 percent of those thwarted were Latino.
Arizona officials say they should be able to pass laws to stop illegal immigrants and other noncitizens from getting on their voting rolls. The Arizona voting law was part of a package that also denied some government benefits to illegal immigrants and required Arizonans to show identification before voting.
The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the voter identification provision. The denial of benefits was not challenged.
Opponents "argue that Arizona should not be permitted to request evidence of citizenship when someone registers to vote, but should instead rely on the person's sworn statement that he or she is a citizen," Arizona Attorney General Thomas C. Horne said in court papers.
"The fallacy in that is that someone who is willing to vote illegally will be willing to sign a false statement. What (opponents) are urging is that there should be nothing more than an honor system to assure that registered voters are citizens. That was not acceptable to the people of Arizona."
The Arizona proposition was enacted into law with 55 percent of the vote.
This is the second voting issue the high court is tackling this session. Last month, several justices voiced deep skepticism about whether a section of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, a law that has helped millions of minorities exercise their right to vote, especially in areas of the Deep South, was still needed.
This case involves laws of more recent vintage.
The federal "Motor Voter" law, enacted in 1993 to expand voter registration, allows would-be voters to fill out a mail-in voter registration card and swear they are citizens under penalty of perjury, but it doesn't require them to show proof.
Under Proposition 200 approved in 2004, Arizona officials require an Arizona driver's license issued after 1996, a U.S. birth certificate, a passport or other similar document, or the state will reject the federal registration application form.
This requirement applies only to people who seek to register using the federal mail-in form. Arizona has its own form and an online system to register when renewing a driver's license. The court ruling did not affect proof of citizenship requirements using the state forms.
State officials say more than 90 percent of those Arizonans applying to vote using the federal form will be able to simply write down their driver's license number, and all naturalized citizens simply will be able to write down their naturalization number without needed additional documents.
Former Arizona Senate President Russell Pearce, a leading Republican proponent of Proposition 200, strongly disputed claims that Arizona doesn't have voter fraud problems. "They turn a blind eye," Pearce said of the state's election officials.
But Karen Osborne, elections director for Maricopa County, where nearly 60 percent of Arizona's voters live, said voter fraud is rare, and even rarer among illegal immigrants.
"That just does not seem to be an issue," Osborne said of the claim that illegal immigrants are voting. "They did not want to come out of the shadows. They don't want to be involved with the government."
The main legal question facing the justices is whether the federal law trumps Arizona's law. A 10-member panel of the 9th Circuit in San Francisco said it did.
The appeals court issued multiple rulings in this case, with a three-judge panel initially siding with Arizona. A second panel that included retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who from time to time sits on appeals courts, reversed course and blocked the registration requirement. The full court then did the same, and that decision will be reviewed by the justices in Washington.
The case is 12-71, Arizona v. Inter Tribal Council of Arizona, Inc.
The question should be, "Why wouldn't you have to provide evidence of citizenship to vote?" The question is always put backwards. If you are required TO BE as citizen to vote then being required to prove it would seem logical. And, in an environment where it has been suggested that people vote more than once, attempting do so should be a felony. Similarly, anyone trying to prevent a citizen from voting should also be guilty of a felony. This is one of the most important things about our country and we shouldn't allow criminals to take over our government and make us feel un-American if we try to stop them.Â
"Should voters have to prove citizenship to register?"
Yes.
 Our government is lazy when it comes efficiency. We definatly need to have people show proof!
Should they also need to prove they can form a cohesive sentence and be able to spell? In that case, you're out of luck!
Isn't there a line somewhere that reads: "no taxation without representation"? how about "no representation without taxation"?
I am pro immigration reform and very liberal but I vote YES to require proof of citizenship from everyone. I am tired of undocumented immigrants being falsely accused of trying to vote when that is not the case and if showing proof of citizenship stops that non-sense, then let's do it. I will be glad to show my passport or birth certificate anytime.
@Socialjusticeforall"I vote YES to require proof of citizenship from everyone."
The problem with a birth certificate is that it's really easy to get one - for anyone you want to.
This is from the King County office of public records.
Information we need from you to search for a birth recordListed in order of importance, provide as much of the following as possible. The first five are required:
All this for $20.Â
You don't even need to send in a photo...
http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/vitalstats/birth.aspx
The problem?
Well, I can go to the library and check the newspapers for birth announcements for a name, date, parents names.
Then I go to http://www.ancestry.com/, enter that data, and for a small fee find additional records such as middle names, maiden name of the mother, names of siblings and other relations.Â
For almost every person born in the US before 1940.
And then I go to the KC site and order the document.Â
And Pablo becomes Peter...registered US voter...
YES !!!!! X 2
Does this mean that non-tax-payers can be imported into various cities to vote without showing valid citizenship or state residency? Â That means in a tight race the group that can import the most non-contributors, non-resident and non-citizen into a community wins. Â Bus truck loads of people into a community, have them stay at a residential mail box, register to vote, then leave. Â When time to vote, vote absentee ballot to mailing post box residence. Â Is this what USA is becoming a non-representative scam government of cronies looking for handouts? Â Is this the new liberal progressive government?
Honestly I cant believe you would be issued a voters registration card without proof of citizenship in the first place!
YES!!!
It's amazing how many of you have such flawed logic, how is requiring someone to show their citizenship at a voting booth âdisenfranchise minority Americansâ?! If the supposed âvictimâ is not even a legal citizen, that person canât even be âdisenfranchisedâ.I am sure some of you will tell me âHeeyyy, some citizens are too poor and blah blah blah, thatâs why they canât proof it even if they are citizen!!â, OK fine, than these retards shouldnât be voting in the first place!
@PuzzleFighterÂ
I agree, once this becomes the law of the land, people should be able to comply. I am a very progressive Latino but this change will stop the false accusations against undocumented immigrants. And for those who can't proof they are legal citizens, they need to figure it out.
@PuzzleFighter"It's amazing how many of you have such flawed logic, how is requiring someone to show their citizenship at a voting booth âdisenfranchise minority Americansâ?"
It's getting that proof that is hard for some older citizens - many of those born before the Depression are very likely to NOT have an existing birth certificate. As to a social security card, at that time most women did not work, therefore did not have a reason to have one.Â
As to your comment "I am sure some of you will tell me âHeeyyy, some citizens are too poor and blah blah blah, thatâs why they canât proof it even if they are citizen!!â, OK fine, than these retards shouldnât be voting in the first place!" - that's pretty dismissive of a large part of our population. For many who do not have the BC, because it does not exist, they need to spend a lot of time - and money - working to find the records that are needed to substitute for a BC...and since most of those will be older people, often without access to the web, doing that becomes a mountain of obstacles.Â
Being old and poor should NOT be a reason for taking the right to vote away from someone.Â
Based on your attitude, maybe being arrogant and narsasistic should be.
LOL. if the old people you mentioned are so "worn out" to the point where they can't figure out where to get ahold of their citizenship, they really shouldn't be voting, same goes with the poor people you just mentioned. Everyone has the RIGHT to vote is really just a scam created by the Democrat to get them in power. BTW, the last time I voted was voting for Obama in 2008, but never voted again cause it's just a huge scam. I may be arrogant, but at least I ain't stupid.
@PuzzleFighter" if the old people you mentioned are so "worn out" to the point where they can't figure out where to get ahold of their citizenship, they really shouldn't be voting, same goes with the poor people you just mentioned."
Do you realize how arrogant that sounds? Not only are you disrespectful of the elderly, you also show your elitist mindset against the poor.Â
And then you admit that you don't vote - while at the same time endorsing the plan to remove votes from those who do.Â
@Orcas...what a lame excuse to not support this..."born before the depression"...so those who are 84 and older are being disenfranchised?  You do realize how stupid you sound with this excuse? So all of the sudden, after 84 years, they are just now deciding to get a voter registration card? BTW...Social Security cards were first issued in 1935, so all of them have them already you dolt!  I have another idea to blow up your last lame excuse that poor people can't afford it. MAKE IT FREE! There you go...problem solved so do you have any other excuse to keep illegals (who vote almost 100% for your liberal buddies) from voting?
@sometimesright "after 84 years, they are just now deciding to get a voter registration card? "
But isn't this case about those States that want to NOW require birth documents in order to vote - where they were NOT required before?Â
In other words, the birth certificate was NOT required - and NOW tiy want it to be.
So...these 84 year olds were voting before - without the BC.Â
And now you want to take that right away from them, simply because they are old enough to have been born before such documentation was required.
"Social Security cards were first issued in 1935"
And there were many who did not get them, because their only "job" was wife and mother...
These are American Citizens - and you would steal their right to vote...?
All because of your unsubstantiated fear of illegals voting...
You would strip thousands, maybe millions, of Americans of their right to vote, based on what the HIGHEST estimate based on actual proof amounts to at most a few hundred illegals having voted...?
Matter of fact, how many actual proven cases of illegal voting have there been over the past 20 years?
Google "charged with illegal voting", you get one entire first page showing "Nun among 3 charged with illegal voting in SW Ohio", and one poll worker in OH who voted for other people...
Wow!
@sometimesright"You do realize how stupid you sound with this excuse? "
"Stupid"...Lately it seems that you right wingers have been using that word a lot...
Maybe it has something to do with your chronic inability to consider someone else's thoughts as valid.Â
Then again, it may just be your poor manners when faced with someone who disputes your inability to think on your own.
@OrcasThunder The "I am a citizen because I said so" rule is not enough.  My folks were both born before and during the Depression.  Both have BC's and Social Security cards.  Numerous forms of identification.  There are ways and means to obtain proof of citizenship, always has been.  This BS about preventing or removing a persons right to vote is just drivel.  I'm sure the Banks are out of line too when they ask people for proof of identification.  After all, the 'because I said so' statement is simply good enough.  Excuses is all I/we hear.  The unsubstantiated 11%.  Grow a pair and uphold the law while enforcing it with proof of identity and citizenship.
We already have requirements on who can legally vote, and penalties for illegal voters. Let anyone register and accept the penalty for falsifying their application, then actively review the lists of voters to verify compliance and prosecute those that aren't.
The problem is that the lists of voters are seldom checked to verify if the voter is eligible or not to vote. This appears to be intentional.
@giveitarest Funny. Didn't the last Gregoire election get recounted a couple of times over this very issue?
It is kinda odd that you need to show ID all the time for everything except voting.
"Should voters have to prove citizenship to register?"
OF COURSE they should!!!!
I can't believe anyone would be that STUPID to ask that question....
I guess government is involved though..
"The Obama administration is supporting challengers to the law."
Wow, there's a news flash!
Republicans would NEVER try and disenfranchise the minority vote, No Way!!
This comment has been deleted
@the unvarnished truth The word is "Democratic". Your bias eliminates your veracity.
It hasn't been to long ago that members of the government realized that all of the immigration laws in this country are being completely ignored.  What a shocker. When the immigration laws were actually being enforced this country didn't have so many of these problems. I rather doubt anything will be done about the immigration laws that are being ignored however because none of the politicians want to put their political careers in jeopardy.
It's come to this. An article in a mainstream news media asks a question that a few years ago would have had a 100% answer of "yes". Of course, the question wouldn't have been asked in the first place the answer is so obvious.
When I registered to vote we went to a neighbors house that was deputised to register voters. She was not inclined to make mistakes because she was held legally responsible for everyone registered. We had to bring 3 pieces of ID and they were very specific what those had to be. The process took about half an hour. The motor voter ruined all that and now anyone with fake id and an envelop with an addresson it can register.
I became a citizen 47 years ago, It would not bother me to show proof of citizenship in order to vote.
What 3 pieces of ID did you have to bring?
These yahoos will go to any length to disenfranchise the American public. You would have thought they would find something better to do with their time than Jerry-rigging future elections in their favor. Hell if you live here, pay taxes and bills, you are an American.
I worry about our government's priorities, they can't control the big things like budgets and Wall Street; hell they can't even get along with each other, but they sure can focus their attention on us little guys and make sure we're the one's getting screwed.
@left-center If you think asking people to prove their citizenship is "jerry-rigging" it, than how would you go about making sure illegals and non-citizens can't vote? Or maybe you think it's okay for them to vote?
@Silver_Shot @left-center The claim was made in the psot. "Hell if you live here, pay taxes and bills, you are an American". That explains the democrat's montra and why they think no ID should be required. This is how they win elections, after all without needing to show ID they must be caught voting illegally. How many people actually speed compared to those who get a ticket for speeding?Â
If you are illegal then you don't have any citizen rights in this country, or that's how it's supposed to be. I don't understand how people can defend illegal immigrants. It is a bunch of crap. I applaud Arizona for having the guts to stand up and make these sensible laws. Good job!
Becqause there is a legion of numbskulls in this country that doesn't make any distinction between Hispanics who are US citizens are undocumented immigrants. Any assertion that this will negatively impact the Hispanic vote is met with an instantaneous "they are illegal and can't vote anyway". It is beyond ignorant and pathetic that this mentality persists, but the reality is that it does.
You sometimes wonder were these ideas come from is there some thing the government is laying ground work for or is it as simple as voter ID. Is this a step to chips and bar codes. I believe there should be some kind of ID to prove you are a citizen . Be careful what you ask for
One other thing to think about:
Some are calling for a "national" voting card.Â
Do you really want a National ID card? Will we finally empower the cops to ask for "papers, please"?
@OrcasThunder Most civilized countries have National ID cards.  And some uncivilized ones, as well. I thought we waned to be more like the rest of the world. Or is this the exception?
Be Like Europe! They good!
Except for that ID thing.
@Getov Mylon@OrcasThunder"Most civilized countries have National ID cards."
Indeed. The USSR was well known for requiring ID cards...
I would think that those who favor LESS government intrusion would be opposed to a National ID Card, which would allow for tracking every movement...
Interesting - you would be OK with having your activities tracked, but not having a list of who owns a gun...
How does one "prove" they are an American Citizen?
Sure, naturalized citizens have their papers - but what do the rest of us have? A birth certificate...OK. But what does that have that links to us as adults? All it has is names - no fingerprints or photos. All the voting office has to rely on is that YOU are the person named in the birth certificate, based on YOUR claims that you are the same person, and that those were your parents.
How much does the average records office invest in checking these out? Especially for out of State certificates?Â
And what of those who don't have BC's - many older people may not have them, for a number of reasons. Older records may have been destroyed by fire or flood. There are cases of older people born in rural areas not having them because they were born at home - and the birth not being officially registered. This happened a lot on the rural South with Black families, birth was at home with no doctor or hospital involved, the only "registration" was at the local church.
Will there be an exemption, or workaround, provided for these people - or do we simply deny them their right to vote?
@OrcasThunder I find it hard to believe that having proof is that much of an issue when these very same people are able to produce whatever ID is necessary for a wide variety of reasons necessary to function. When someone can explain to me why they can produce ID for some things but for voting then this might be true, otherwise "I ain't buyin it".
@SeattleJoe @OrcasThunder Read my reply to scared_citizen - the fact is, until the Depression, and Social Security, anyone not born in a hospital was not likely to have a birth certificate issued, and even in the cities many people were born at home - my mother was, in Michigan 1911, and her birth wasn't registered (NOT Certified) until later.
It's hard to explain to some people that Grandma and down on his luck joe can't just pull out their phone and ask Siri where to get their BC scanned to them so they can just flash it at the voting scanner like Starbucks
@OrcasThunder  Make it as much of a problem as you can but voting is a right and people should vote but to vote in our country (the US), you should prove that you are a citizen of our country! If you are not a citizen of our country, go to your own country and vote (if they allow a vote).Â
You talk about people who dont have Birth Certificates. They would have to produce documentation to get a Social Security Card (must have in order to work) and get a driver's license and many other things. These "older people born in rural areas" apparently have had MANY years to figure it out if they were so inclined.
@scared_citizen@OrcasThunder"They would have to produce documentation to get a Social Security Card (must have in order to work)"
OK, then make the Social Security card the "proof" of citizenship.
Oh, wait - a lot of "illegals" have false ones...
Plus, what if the US Citizen never worked - an elderly Black woman who stayed at home and cared for the kids...didn't drive...?Â
And there are no records beyond a church marriage record linking her to her birth family?
And it's really more of a problem than you might think...in fact it wasn't until the depression that many people had birth certificates...about the time that Social Security came into existence - before then, proving your birth wasn't often a requirement.
That means that a lot of people 80 or older may not have an actual birth certificate...
"Despite the importance of being able to prove oneâs citizenship with a birth certificate, in the early 1940s, about 43 million Americansânearly one-third of working-age populationâhad no such document. Their births had never been recorded by government, and they faced complex and unfamiliar procedures for documenting their own births."
http://cliotropic.org/blog/talks/undocumented-citizens-aha-2010/Â
Read the findings from a recent survey:
"Survey results: proof of citizenship As many as 7% of United States citizens â 13 million individuals â do not have ready access to citizenship documents. Seven percent of the American citizens surveyed responded that they do not have ready access to U.S. passports, naturalization papers, or birth certificates.2 Using 2000 census calculations of the citizen voting-age population, this translates to more than 13 million American adult citizens nationwide who cannot easily produce documentation proving their citizenship.3Â
 Citizens with comparatively low incomes are less likely to possess documentation proving their citizenship. Citizens earning less than $25,000 per year are more than twice as likely to lack ready documentation of their citizenship as those earning more than $25,000.4 Indeed, the survey indicates that at least 12 percent of voting-age American citizens earning less than $25,000 per year do not have a readily available U.S. passport, naturalization document, or birth certificate.5Â
Documentation proving citizenship often does not reflect the citizenâs current name. Many of those who possess ready documentation of their citizenship do not have documentation that reflects their current name. For example, survey results show that only 48% of voting-age women with ready access to their U.S. birth certificates have a birth certificate with current legal name6 â and only 66% of voting-age women with ready access to any proof of citizenship have a document with current legal name.7 Using 2000 census citizen voting-age population data, this means that as many as 32 million voting-age women may have available only proof of citizenship documents that do not reflect their current name."
 http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/download_file_39242.pdf
Are you really so ready to disenfranchise millions of US citizens, simply because you are worried about a few "illegals" voting? And yes, I say "a few" because that's all the documented evidence that I see of this happening. How many illegals have actually been charged with voting in US elections? The numbers I see are - at most - in the hundreds nationwide. A minor number compared to cutting off millions of qualified voters who are old enough to have been born before birth certificates were required.
The only logical way I can see people opposed is they either are illegal, or they want the votes from illegals. Obama is opposed. Is he one or the other, or both?
Arizona, Idaho, New York, or where ever one should have to validate they are here legally. Three pieces of valid ID should be presented to qualify for voting. One should have to present the same ID to vote as to get a passport. I would like to add this to it. One should be fined for not voting. The only way a free democracy can work if everyone participates. Those that do not vote hurt the system.Â
@LongBeachBum"One should be fined for not voting."
 Supporting another tax?
"The only way a free democracy can work if everyone participates."
How is it a "free" democracy if you have to pay not to participate?Â
@LongBeachBumÂ
Although I think 3 pieces of ID is a bit of overkill, I like your ideas. However I don't think being fined will get much support, considering some states are making it harder to vote, especially in minority areas and more democratic-leaning areas.