U.S. sees Israel, tight Mideast ally, as spy threat

WASHINGTON (AP) — The CIA station chief opened the locked box containing the sensitive equipment he used from his home in Tel Aviv, Israel, to communicate with CIA headquarters in Virginia, only to find that someone had tampered with it. He sent word to his superiors about the break-in.
The incident, described by three former senior U.S. intelligence officials, might have been dismissed as just another cloak-and-dagger incident in the world of international espionage, except that the same thing had happened to the previous station chief in Israel.
It was a not-so-subtle reminder that, even in a country friendly to the United States, the CIA was itself being watched.
In a separate episode, according to another two former U.S. officials, a CIA officer in Israel came home to find the food in the refrigerator had been rearranged. In all the cases, the U.S. government believes Israel's security services were responsible.
Such meddling underscores what is widely known but rarely discussed outside intelligence circles: Despite inarguable ties between the U.S. and its closest ally in the Middle East and despite statements from U.S. politicians trumpeting the friendship, U.S. national security officials consider Israel to be, at times, a frustrating ally and a genuine counterintelligence threat.
In addition to what the former U.S. officials described as intrusions in homes in the past decade, Israel has been implicated in U.S. criminal espionage cases and disciplinary proceedings against CIA officers and blamed in the presumed death of an important spy in Syria for the CIA during the administration of President George W. Bush.
The CIA considers Israel its No. 1 counterintelligence threat in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East, according to current and former officials. Counterintelligence is the art of protecting national secrets from spies. This means the CIA believes that U.S. national secrets are safer from other Middle Eastern governments than from Israel.
Israel employs highly sophisticated, professional spy services that rival American agencies in technical capability and recruiting human sources. Unlike Iran or Syria, for example, Israel as a steadfast U.S. ally enjoys access to the highest levels of the U.S. government in military and intelligence circles.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to talk publicly about the sensitive intelligence and diplomatic issues between the two countries.
The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities. While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
"It's a complicated relationship," said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. "They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act."
The way Washington characterizes its relationship with Israel is also important to the way the U.S. is regarded by the rest of the world, particularly Muslim countries.
U.S. political praise has reached a crescendo ahead of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney's scheduled meeting Sunday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem. Their relationship spans decades, since their brief overlap in the 1970s at the Boston Consulting Group. Both worked as advisers for the firm early in their careers before Romney co-founded his own private-equity firm. Romney said in a speech this past week that Israel was "one of our fondest friends," and he criticized Obama for what he called the administration's "shabby treatment" of the Jewish state.
"The people of Israel deserve better than what they've received from the leader of the free world," Romney said in a plain appeal to U.S. Jewish and pro-Israel evangelical voters.
Obama, who last year was overheard appearing to endorse criticism of Netanyahu from then-French President Nicolas Sarkozy, has defended his work with Israel. "We've gotten a lot of business done with Israel over the last three years," Obama said this year. "I think the prime minister — and certainly the defense minister — would acknowledge that we've never had closer military and intelligence cooperation."
An Israeli spokesman in Washington, Lior Weintraub, said his country has close ties with the U.S.
"Israel's intelligence and security agencies maintain close, broad and continuous cooperation with their U.S. counterparts," Weintraub said. "They are our partners in confronting many mutual challenges. Any suggestion otherwise is baseless and contrary to the spirit and practice of the security cooperation between our two countries."
The CIA declined comment.
The tension exists on both sides.
The National Security Agency historically has kept tabs on Israel. The U.S., for instance, does not want to be caught off guard if Israel launches a surprise attack that could plunge the region into war and jeopardize oil supplies, putting American soldiers at risk.
Matthew Aid, the author of "The Secret Sentry," about the NSA, said the U.S. started spying on Israel even before the state was created in 1948. Aid said the U.S. had a station on Cyprus dedicated to spying on Israel until 1974. Today, teams of Hebrew linguists are stationed at Fort Meade, Md., at the NSA, listening to intercepts of Israeli communications, he said.
CIA policy generally forbids its officers in Tel Aviv from recruiting Israeli government sources, officials said. To do so would require approval from senior CIA leaders, two former senior officials said. During the Bush administration, the approval had to come from the White House.
Israel is not America's closest ally, at least when it comes to whom Washington trusts with the most sensitive national security information. That distinction belongs to a group of nations known informally as the "Five Eyes." Under that umbrella, the United States, Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand agree to share intelligence and not to spy on one another. Often, U.S. intelligence officers work directly alongside counterparts from these countries to handle highly classified information not shared with anyone else.
Israel is part of by a second-tier relationship known by another informal name, "Friends on Friends." It comes from the phrase "Friends don't spy on friends," and the arrangement dates back decades. But Israel's foreign intelligence service, the Mossad, and its FBI equivalent, the Shin Bet, both considered among the best in the world, have been suspected of recruiting U.S. officials and trying to steal American secrets.
Around 2004 or 2005, the CIA fired two female officers for having unreported contact with Israelis. One of the women acknowledged during a polygraph exam that she had been in a relationship with an Israeli who worked in the Foreign Ministry, a former U.S. official said. The CIA learned the Israeli introduced the woman to his "uncle." That person worked for Shin Bet.
Jonathan Pollard, who worked for the Navy as a civilian intelligence analyst, was convicted of spying for Israel in 1987 when the Friends on Friends agreement was in effect. He was sentenced to life in prison. The Israelis for years have tried to win his release. In January 2011, Netanyahu asked Obama to free Pollard and acknowledged that Israel's actions in the case were "wrong and wholly unacceptable."
Ronald Olive, a former senior supervisor with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service who investigated Pollard, said that after the arrest, the U.S. formed a task force to determine what government records Pollard had taken. Olive said Israel turned over so few that it represented "a speck in the sand."
In the wake of Pollard, the Israelis promised not to operate intelligence agents on U.S. soil.
A former Army mechanical engineer, Ben-Ami Kadish, pleaded guilty in 2008 to passing classified secrets to the Israelis during the 1980s. His case officer was the same one who handled Pollard. Kadish let the Israelis photograph documents about nuclear weapons, a modified version of an F-15 fighter jet and the U.S. Patriot missile air defense system. Kadish, who was 85 years old when he was arrested, avoided prison and was ordered to pay a $50,000 fine. He told the judge that, "I thought I was helping the state of Israel without harming the United States."
In 2006, a former Defense Department analyst was sentenced to more than 12 years in prison for giving classified information to an Israeli diplomat and two pro-Israel lobbyists.
Despite the Pollard case and others, Olive said he believes the two countries need to maintain close ties "but do we still have to be vigilant? Absolutely. The Israelis are good at what they do."
During the Bush administration, the CIA ranked some of the world's intelligence agencies in order of their willingness to help in the U.S.-led fight against terrorism. One former U.S. intelligence official who saw the completed list said Israel, which hadn't been directly targeted in attacks by al-Qaida, fell below Libya, which recently had agreed to abandon its nuclear weapons program.
The espionage incidents have done little to slow the billions of dollars in money and weapons from the United States to Israel. Since Pollard's arrest, Israel has received more than $60 billion in U.S. aid, mostly in the form of military assistance, according to the Congressional Research Service. The U.S. has supplied Israel with Patriot missiles, helped pay for an anti-missile defense program and provided sensitive radar equipment to track Iranian missile threats.
Just on Friday, Obama said he was releasing an additional $70 million in military aid, a previously announced move that appeared timed to upstage Romney's trip, and he spoke of America's "unshakable commitment to Israel." The money will go to help Israel expand production of a short-range rocket defense system.
Some CIA officials still bristle over the disappearance of a Syrian scientist who during the Bush administration was the CIA's only spy inside Syria's military program to develop chemical and biological weapons. The scientist was providing the agency with extraordinary information about pathogens used in the program, former U.S. officials said about the previously unknown intelligence operation.
At the time, there was pressure to share information about weapons of mass destruction, and the CIA provided its intelligence to Israel. A former official with direct knowledge of the case said details about Syria's program were published in the media. Although the CIA never formally concluded that Israel was responsible, CIA officials complained to Israel about their belief that Israelis were leaking the information to pressure Syria to abandon the program. The Syrians pieced together who had access to the sensitive information and eventually identified the scientist as a traitor.
Before he disappeared and was presumed killed, the scientist told his CIA handler that Syrian Military Intelligence was focusing on him.
The incident, described by three former senior U.S. intelligence officials, might have been dismissed as just another cloak-and-dagger incident in the world of international espionage, except that the same thing had happened to the previous station chief in Israel.
It was a not-so-subtle reminder that, even in a country friendly to the United States, the CIA was itself being watched.
In a separate episode, according to another two former U.S. officials, a CIA officer in Israel came home to find the food in the refrigerator had been rearranged. In all the cases, the U.S. government believes Israel's security services were responsible.
Such meddling underscores what is widely known but rarely discussed outside intelligence circles: Despite inarguable ties between the U.S. and its closest ally in the Middle East and despite statements from U.S. politicians trumpeting the friendship, U.S. national security officials consider Israel to be, at times, a frustrating ally and a genuine counterintelligence threat.
In addition to what the former U.S. officials described as intrusions in homes in the past decade, Israel has been implicated in U.S. criminal espionage cases and disciplinary proceedings against CIA officers and blamed in the presumed death of an important spy in Syria for the CIA during the administration of President George W. Bush.
The CIA considers Israel its No. 1 counterintelligence threat in the agency's Near East Division, the group that oversees spying across the Middle East, according to current and former officials. Counterintelligence is the art of protecting national secrets from spies. This means the CIA believes that U.S. national secrets are safer from other Middle Eastern governments than from Israel.
Israel employs highly sophisticated, professional spy services that rival American agencies in technical capability and recruiting human sources. Unlike Iran or Syria, for example, Israel as a steadfast U.S. ally enjoys access to the highest levels of the U.S. government in military and intelligence circles.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to talk publicly about the sensitive intelligence and diplomatic issues between the two countries.
The counterintelligence worries continue even as the U.S. relationship with Israel features close cooperation on intelligence programs that reportedly included the Stuxnet computer virus that attacked computers in Iran's main nuclear enrichment facilities. While the alliance is central to the U.S. approach in the Middle East, there is room for intense disagreement, especially in the diplomatic turmoil over Iran's nuclear ambitions.
"It's a complicated relationship," said Joseph Wippl, a former senior CIA clandestine officer and head of the agency's office of congressional affairs. "They have their interests. We have our interests. For the U.S., it's a balancing act."
The way Washington characterizes its relationship with Israel is also important to the way the U.S. is regarded by the rest of the world, particularly Muslim countries.
U.S. political praise has reached a crescendo ahead of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney's scheduled meeting Sunday with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem. Their relationship spans decades, since their brief overlap in the 1970s at the Boston Consulting Group. Both worked as advisers for the firm early in their careers before Romney co-founded his own private-equity firm. Romney said in a speech this past week that Israel was "one of our fondest friends," and he criticized Obama for what he called the administration's "shabby treatment" of the Jewish state.
"The people of Israel deserve better than what they've received from the leader of the free world," Romney said in a plain appeal to U.S. Jewish and pro-Israel evangelical voters.
Obama, who last year was overheard appearing to endorse criticism of Netanyahu from then-French President Nicolas Sarkozy, has defended his work with Israel. "We've gotten a lot of business done with Israel over the last three years," Obama said this year. "I think the prime minister — and certainly the defense minister — would acknowledge that we've never had closer military and intelligence cooperation."
An Israeli spokesman in Washington, Lior Weintraub, said his country has close ties with the U.S.
"Israel's intelligence and security agencies maintain close, broad and continuous cooperation with their U.S. counterparts," Weintraub said. "They are our partners in confronting many mutual challenges. Any suggestion otherwise is baseless and contrary to the spirit and practice of the security cooperation between our two countries."
The CIA declined comment.
The tension exists on both sides.
The National Security Agency historically has kept tabs on Israel. The U.S., for instance, does not want to be caught off guard if Israel launches a surprise attack that could plunge the region into war and jeopardize oil supplies, putting American soldiers at risk.
Matthew Aid, the author of "The Secret Sentry," about the NSA, said the U.S. started spying on Israel even before the state was created in 1948. Aid said the U.S. had a station on Cyprus dedicated to spying on Israel until 1974. Today, teams of Hebrew linguists are stationed at Fort Meade, Md., at the NSA, listening to intercepts of Israeli communications, he said.
CIA policy generally forbids its officers in Tel Aviv from recruiting Israeli government sources, officials said. To do so would require approval from senior CIA leaders, two former senior officials said. During the Bush administration, the approval had to come from the White House.
Israel is not America's closest ally, at least when it comes to whom Washington trusts with the most sensitive national security information. That distinction belongs to a group of nations known informally as the "Five Eyes." Under that umbrella, the United States, Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand agree to share intelligence and not to spy on one another. Often, U.S. intelligence officers work directly alongside counterparts from these countries to handle highly classified information not shared with anyone else.
Israel is part of by a second-tier relationship known by another informal name, "Friends on Friends." It comes from the phrase "Friends don't spy on friends," and the arrangement dates back decades. But Israel's foreign intelligence service, the Mossad, and its FBI equivalent, the Shin Bet, both considered among the best in the world, have been suspected of recruiting U.S. officials and trying to steal American secrets.
Around 2004 or 2005, the CIA fired two female officers for having unreported contact with Israelis. One of the women acknowledged during a polygraph exam that she had been in a relationship with an Israeli who worked in the Foreign Ministry, a former U.S. official said. The CIA learned the Israeli introduced the woman to his "uncle." That person worked for Shin Bet.
Jonathan Pollard, who worked for the Navy as a civilian intelligence analyst, was convicted of spying for Israel in 1987 when the Friends on Friends agreement was in effect. He was sentenced to life in prison. The Israelis for years have tried to win his release. In January 2011, Netanyahu asked Obama to free Pollard and acknowledged that Israel's actions in the case were "wrong and wholly unacceptable."
Ronald Olive, a former senior supervisor with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service who investigated Pollard, said that after the arrest, the U.S. formed a task force to determine what government records Pollard had taken. Olive said Israel turned over so few that it represented "a speck in the sand."
In the wake of Pollard, the Israelis promised not to operate intelligence agents on U.S. soil.
A former Army mechanical engineer, Ben-Ami Kadish, pleaded guilty in 2008 to passing classified secrets to the Israelis during the 1980s. His case officer was the same one who handled Pollard. Kadish let the Israelis photograph documents about nuclear weapons, a modified version of an F-15 fighter jet and the U.S. Patriot missile air defense system. Kadish, who was 85 years old when he was arrested, avoided prison and was ordered to pay a $50,000 fine. He told the judge that, "I thought I was helping the state of Israel without harming the United States."
In 2006, a former Defense Department analyst was sentenced to more than 12 years in prison for giving classified information to an Israeli diplomat and two pro-Israel lobbyists.
Despite the Pollard case and others, Olive said he believes the two countries need to maintain close ties "but do we still have to be vigilant? Absolutely. The Israelis are good at what they do."
During the Bush administration, the CIA ranked some of the world's intelligence agencies in order of their willingness to help in the U.S.-led fight against terrorism. One former U.S. intelligence official who saw the completed list said Israel, which hadn't been directly targeted in attacks by al-Qaida, fell below Libya, which recently had agreed to abandon its nuclear weapons program.
The espionage incidents have done little to slow the billions of dollars in money and weapons from the United States to Israel. Since Pollard's arrest, Israel has received more than $60 billion in U.S. aid, mostly in the form of military assistance, according to the Congressional Research Service. The U.S. has supplied Israel with Patriot missiles, helped pay for an anti-missile defense program and provided sensitive radar equipment to track Iranian missile threats.
Just on Friday, Obama said he was releasing an additional $70 million in military aid, a previously announced move that appeared timed to upstage Romney's trip, and he spoke of America's "unshakable commitment to Israel." The money will go to help Israel expand production of a short-range rocket defense system.
Some CIA officials still bristle over the disappearance of a Syrian scientist who during the Bush administration was the CIA's only spy inside Syria's military program to develop chemical and biological weapons. The scientist was providing the agency with extraordinary information about pathogens used in the program, former U.S. officials said about the previously unknown intelligence operation.
At the time, there was pressure to share information about weapons of mass destruction, and the CIA provided its intelligence to Israel. A former official with direct knowledge of the case said details about Syria's program were published in the media. Although the CIA never formally concluded that Israel was responsible, CIA officials complained to Israel about their belief that Israelis were leaking the information to pressure Syria to abandon the program. The Syrians pieced together who had access to the sensitive information and eventually identified the scientist as a traitor.
Before he disappeared and was presumed killed, the scientist told his CIA handler that Syrian Military Intelligence was focusing on him.
You know a nuke in that entire area would ensure neither side gets it or can even live there... let that serve as a monument to stupidity because that is exactly where this disagreement is heading ... how many people have to die on both sides before they can deside to live together in PEACE as opposed to trying to kill one another each day?
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I can tell you they apparently neither side has gotten the message so it is very sad that a massive death toll is in fact required to teach anyone anything!
Israel actual know how to deal with terrorists let us learn something from them! Rather than bowing to the bad guys who are a threat to everyone in the region.
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Israel is NOT our ally and has never been our friend, they only use us for our military might! When Nutnayhoo was visiting our president, his body language said it ALL!! He hates Obama as much as some of you who post here on this site! He hates him because Obama will not let him go on his reign of terror like they have been doing for the past 50 years during previous administrations !
 @LoJack Reign of terror? Over 200 rockets have been fired into Israel in the past couple of months with very little retaliation. I know the main stream media does not carry Israeli news but did I miss something? Has Israel invaded some country I don't know about?
There are several online newspapers that carry all world news.The St Petersburg Times (Russia), The Christian Science Monitor, Harretz and english speaking papers in the Arab world.
 @LoJack Oh please,what a bunch of crap. Is that anti-semitism of yours really that comforting to you? That hate filled nonsense is a cancer.
 @GaikokujinÂ
Please explain exactly how it is "anti-semitism"Â other than saying something honest about Israel that you do not like.
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 @Gaikokujin OK, tin foil hat aside,
What specifically did @LoJack say that was antisematic.
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 @>T H I S< there has been no 50 year reign of terror. that is a base less lie and falsehood and you know it. Continuing to spread that lie is nothing but based on a hatred of Israel. You know it and I know it.
Perhaps they were trying to find out who their real friends are and who their actual enemies are. Being there are Muslim Brotherhood working along side this administration in the white house.
@mrmytwocents. Boy. twocents sure isn't worth much.
We're complaining because a foreign intelligence agency is spying on us in their own country, yet every US Consulate including those in countries we consider allies has a CIA station chief and field agents. I guess it's OK if we do it but not if they do.
 @Mej47 Precisely !!
@Mej47. Are you really an Israeli?
What the CIA needs to do is put photoshoped pictures in their safes of the Israeli spy chief eatting bacon and smearing pork fat over his/her body.
 @timdog Or just put unwrapped bacon in the safes on top of everything.
This is not news. The Israelis have been spying on us for years/decades. It's not surprising that we give Israel $12 billion of our taxpayer money, all for military aid, and it can and will come back to bite us. I've said this in the past, and it's unfortunate, that our policians from across the aisle, Republocrats and Demopublicans, pussy-foot when it comes to questioning our "special" relationship with Israel or criticizing Israeli policies. When they do, their political careers are over. Also, if Mitt Romney (since he's crisscrossing around Europe and Israel this week) was to become president, he will be a very obedient employee to Prime Minister Netanyahu.
The CIA is complaning because someone is spying on them. And the CIA's job discription is what?
 @Mej47 Methinks that they are worried, the Mossad has quite a reputation.
I never forgot the USS Liberty attack and would not trust the Israeli's with anything sensitive. All they care about is themselves at any cost. Respect them? Yes. Trust them? Hell no.
This comment has been deleted
 @OweBomba  @Hagar Their job was to monitor the conflict that was ongoing in that area. We would be blind if we didn't have that ship there.
 @OweBomba With a huge American flag in International waters. Monitoring Egypt and Syria as well. The crew must have felt helpless.
@OweBomba. Wow. I canât figure out if you work for NK, Israel, or just whomever.
 @OweBomba Wow, I thought we were having an intelligent conversation, but, as usual with you right wing wackos, all you can do descend into ridicule and name calling. Your masters have you well trained. Dismissed, loser.
@OweBomba. Sounds as if you would be defending similar actions against similar ships by NK, USSR, Yemen, etc. then. Are you American, Israeli, or what?
@Gaikokujin. bwahahahaâ¦â¦ You are hilarious. I would almost say that you are one of the more bigoted people on this forum.
 @flyskiwindsurf and your pathetic hatred is disgusting
@Gaikokujin. bwahahahaâ¦.. Youâre very funny.
 @OweBomba  @flyskiwindsurf That's how she treats everyone she disagrees with here in the forums.Â
@OweBomba. Okay so you are "or what" then. I guess that does explain a lot of your attitude. So is Israel then paying the US to conduct "clandestine operations againsyt Israel"?
This is not new. Israel was found spying on us years ago. I fail to see why the hell we are such tight allies with Israel. I wouldn't give the country a dime. I'd cut the purse strings off especially when they can't get along with their neighbors. They have an insatiable appetite for acquiring land that doesn't belong to them and responding to rock throwing with bullets.Â
@HallandOates
Yeah, every time one of their neighbors attack Israel they end up losing land after they get their butts kicked. If the Arabs in that part of the Mideast don't like the Israeli's taking their land maybe they should stop invading Israel.
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 @Mej47  @HallandOates Israel in my book is guilty of Palestinian genocide.  If they don't learn to cooperate with others, get along, and be good neighbors, one of these days we'll awake to news of some nut obliterating Israel via nuclear weapons, etc.  Jews having gone through what they did in WWII, should know better than this. It's incredibly sad that Israel is bent on destroying any and all that oppose their regime. Perhaps someday both Israelis and Arabs can get along and live amongst each other.
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 @NKato  @Gaikokujin  @HallandOates Uh you are drinking way way too much of that PC kool aid.
 @Gaikokujin  @HallandOates What you don't seem to understand, Gaiko, is that Israel as a government is repeating the mistakes of the government that oppressed the Jewish people.
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Except that in this case, the Israeli Government is oppressing the Arab/Palestinian population and preventing recovery. Perhaps if they had turned their thoughts on a dime, and HELPED the Palestinians rebuild and actually fixed the border issue, maybe we'd have actual peace for a change.
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I just can't honestly see the Muslims as a majority wanting to obliterate or attack Israel after receiving such help - if that help ever happens.
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Being a "good neighbor" doesn't involve saber-rattling, oppressing the less fortunate and acting like a gestapo state. And it most certainly doesn't mean having our government's balls in a vise just because you people can't figure out reasonable solutions to the problem yourselves.
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 @HallandOates Wrong historically with that Muslim lie of "Palestinian genocide" and wrong they will never be obliterated via nuclear weapons.Â
This is news? Â The Israelis have been spying on us for years.
 @Cetus and us spying on them. you are correct, not news at all
"You cannot like the word, but what is happening is an occupation -- to hold 3.5 million Palestinians under occupation. I believe that is a terrible thing for Israel and for the Palestinians,".
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-2003 Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, shortly before his mysterious "stroke" wink wink
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http://articles.cnn.com/2003-05-26/world/mideast_....
 @thatsjarrod I never considered that a "mystery"...
 @thatsjarrod just so you know that link isn't found.
 @Gaikokujin  @thatsjarrod Yes...and just WHO do we blame for that?
 @Gaikokujin  @OrcasThunder Sorry. That link keeps "mysteriously" disappearing over the past decade. Here's another!
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http://articles.cnn.com/2003-05-26/world/mideast_1_mideast-quartet-palestinian-state-west-bank-and-gaza?_s=PM:WORLD
 @OrcasThunder Huh? wasn't blaming anyone, was just letting jarrod no it isn't coming in. I have no idea why it isn't there.
With "allies" like Israel, who needs enemies?
Well, you've gotta bloody point!
Can you please stop spending my tax dollars to pay for a country to spy on us?
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Think of all the jobs that could be created with those tax dollars.
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 @>T H I S< Oh please, we spy on them and every other "ally" of ours at every chance, just as they do us. Come on Caphillkid
 @Gaikokujin Cap signed back on here a couple of days ago. The difference is cap made sense about 10% of the time. "This" has a different percentage...
 @Gaikokujin And "This" hasn't mentioned the Catholic Church yet (I think).
 @Gaikokujin And how many of those "allies" are subsidizing our military?Â
Can we get an exact count please.
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And not Caphill.. feel free to think I am, but nope. Is kinda funny that you're the third person to say that though.
@Gaikokujin. And you believe that you have a lock on the truth which really means that you know nothing of the real truth.
 @Gaikokujin You sound very oppressed.Â
Perhaps you should live in a less oppressive country. I heard there is one in the middle east.Â
They are actually doing the oppressing by conquring lands and displacing local people all the while screaming what victims they are all the time.
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Now that I think about it, you would fit right in.
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 @flyskiwindsurf Based on hatred posts here in the forums you have shown that you are the one that has no understanding of the Truth. You reject it still
 @GaikokujinÂ
Every single time I see someone post something like that... every single time... it is in some blind support of something stupid because of some stupid talking point.
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We are giving Israel money to spy on us.
That is effing stupid.  Only someone who is totally pants on head retarded would sit back and think, "yeah, that souns right."
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 @Gaikokujin You can keep repeating it. It does not necessarily make it true.Â
@Gaikokujin. I really doubt if you would recognize very much of the truth even if it hit you in the face. Even then I doubt if you could "handle the truth".
@Gaikokujin. Really??!! I guess, based on a number of your posts, it did seem to be very unclear. But you accuse various people of being anti-Semitic. If you really are American, based on a number of your posts on here, I guess I am accusing you of being at the very least un-American if not even outright anti-American.
 @>T H I S< My loyalties lie not with anything but the Truth, you might want to look into it.
 @flyskiwindsurf No I'm American, I just don't blindly support the anti-semitic lies nor the lies or our perpetrated out of our media or by politicians.
 @flyskiwindsurf Yeah I just wanted to know how far down the rabbit hoe his loyalties went.
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I beleive we are officially through the looking glass.
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@>T H I S<. It appears that gai is really Israeli.
 @Gaikokujin  OK, that is fine, they can spy on us without recieving any kind of aid.
That is all I am saying. I am not OK with my tax dollars funding their spy operations against us.
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"They are correct to do"
I think it is extremely obvious in which country your loyalties rest.
 @>T H I S< again we spy on them so why is it a problem that they spy on us. They are correct to do so, they are surrounded by nations that have one desirable goal.... to destroy every one of them.
 @GaikokujinÂ
"false equivalency = false? what the hell is that supposed to mean ?"
-------------------------------------------------------
It is an incredibly simple concept. I am sorry that it is giving you trouble.
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And almost all of Europe was spying on us after WWII?
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My true feelings on Israel are that we give them money, and we *give* them weapons.
Then then turn around and use that mony to spy on us.
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We are paying for Israel to spy on us.
There is no world where that makes any sense.
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 @>T H I S< false equivalency = false? what the hell is that supposed to mean ? Almost all of Europe received money from us after WW2 & the Brits were the only ones to fully paid us back. Egypt receives money from us, so do many many countries. Big deal. You are just showing your true feelings about how you feel about Israel.
 @GaikokujinÂ
because buying weapons from us is the same as recieving large amounts of cash from us?
False equivalencyis false.
Â
formerly,
http://intensedebate.com/people/freep_impact
 @>T H I S< Many of our allies by their weapons systems from us, so what? What's wrong with that? As to not Caphill, sorry don't buy it.