Utah town makes arming every household a top priority
SPRING CITY, Utah (AP) - Officials in a small Utah town want to make sure every head of household has a firearm and knows how to use it, and they want to give school teachers training with guns too.
Spring City Councilman Neil Sorensen first proposed an ordinance requiring a gun in every household in the town of 1,000. The rest of the council scoffed at making it a requirement, but they unanimously agreed to move forward with an ordinance "recommending" the idea.
The council also approved funding to offer concealed firearms training Friday to the 20 teachers and administrators at the local elementary school.
"It sends a statement that criminals better think twice," Sorensen told The Associated Press on Tuesday. "If a teacher would have had a concealed weapon in Sandy Hook, I think the death loss would have been fewer. If sane, trained people had guns, they could have shot back."
The measure, which will go before the full council in February for further review, seems to have the support of the council's five members and many residents in the farming community about 90 miles south of Salt Lake City.
But school administrators don't think arming teachers is wise, and they are not encouraging teachers to participate in Friday's training.
"The more guns you have in the school, the more dangerous it is," said Leslie Keisel, superintendent of the North Sanpete School District.
Councilman Noel Bertelson said making guns in every house mandatory was too much, but he agrees the town would be safer if everyone was armed. With only a part-time police force, he said, response time is not like it is in a big city.
"If a person is able to take care of themselves for a while, it would probably be a good thing," Bertelson said.
The community is still reeling from the double-murder on New Year's Eve 2011 of an elderly couple in nearby Mount Pleasant. Sorensen said what used to be a peaceful, quiet town has been sullied by increasing criminal activity.
Thefts of metal for scrap and other property also have become a problem, Councilman Boyd Mickel said.
"We are kind of tired of people breaking in and taking stuff," said Mickel, explaining why he voted to urge every house to have a gun.
Timm Thompson, a coal miner and father of four girls who lives in Spring City, backs the council's measure.
"People think small towns are a good place to live," Thompson said. "But there is more crime and drugs than you can imagine."
Thompson, who owns 78 guns he keeps locked in a safe, doesn't want teachers to act as police officers. He said some kids are "hooligans" and could overpower teachers for the guns.
Sisters Katy Harmer and Caroline Lott, however, say arming teachers would make them feel better about sending their children to the Spring City Elementary School. The co-owners of the town's coffee shop, Das Coffee, said most Spring City residents keep guns for hunting, leaving only a handful without weapons.
Angela Johnson, owner of the Sinclair gas station, said she doesn't like guns but backs the council's proposal.
"If criminals knew they would be fired against, I think it would cause pause," Johnson said.
Because the Spring City Council is stopping short of a law requiring gun ownership, elected officials won't run afoul of state law, former Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff told KSL.com.
Shurtleff said that when the Washington County town of Virgin enacted a local law in 2000 requiring households to keep guns, he warned them against trying to enforce the measure.
Spring City leaders say they got the idea from a city in Georgia that passed a similar law. In 1982, Kennesaw, Ga., made headlines by requiring heads of households to own a gun and ammunition. On its website, Kennesaw boasts that its burglary rate declined after the law took effect.
Teachers at Spring City Elementary School won't be required to attend Friday's concealed weapons training, but can if they wish, Principal Mark Thomas said.
"I don't think there is anything wrong about being educated how to use a gun," Thomas said.
But Thomas doesn't believe having more armed teachers would necessarily prevent or mitigate the damage in mass shootings. Utah law allows teachers to have concealed weapon in classrooms, but the district doesn't advocate for that, Thomas said.
"By bringing weapons into school, are we creating more problems than we are solving?" he asked. "It could create a new problem. We don't want to deal with that problem."
The proposed ordinance will be discussed at the Feb. 7 City Council meeting. A public hearing will be held three weeks later.
Spring City Councilman Neil Sorensen first proposed an ordinance requiring a gun in every household in the town of 1,000. The rest of the council scoffed at making it a requirement, but they unanimously agreed to move forward with an ordinance "recommending" the idea.
The council also approved funding to offer concealed firearms training Friday to the 20 teachers and administrators at the local elementary school.
"It sends a statement that criminals better think twice," Sorensen told The Associated Press on Tuesday. "If a teacher would have had a concealed weapon in Sandy Hook, I think the death loss would have been fewer. If sane, trained people had guns, they could have shot back."
The measure, which will go before the full council in February for further review, seems to have the support of the council's five members and many residents in the farming community about 90 miles south of Salt Lake City.
But school administrators don't think arming teachers is wise, and they are not encouraging teachers to participate in Friday's training.
"The more guns you have in the school, the more dangerous it is," said Leslie Keisel, superintendent of the North Sanpete School District.
Councilman Noel Bertelson said making guns in every house mandatory was too much, but he agrees the town would be safer if everyone was armed. With only a part-time police force, he said, response time is not like it is in a big city.
"If a person is able to take care of themselves for a while, it would probably be a good thing," Bertelson said.
The community is still reeling from the double-murder on New Year's Eve 2011 of an elderly couple in nearby Mount Pleasant. Sorensen said what used to be a peaceful, quiet town has been sullied by increasing criminal activity.
Thefts of metal for scrap and other property also have become a problem, Councilman Boyd Mickel said.
"We are kind of tired of people breaking in and taking stuff," said Mickel, explaining why he voted to urge every house to have a gun.
Timm Thompson, a coal miner and father of four girls who lives in Spring City, backs the council's measure.
"People think small towns are a good place to live," Thompson said. "But there is more crime and drugs than you can imagine."
Thompson, who owns 78 guns he keeps locked in a safe, doesn't want teachers to act as police officers. He said some kids are "hooligans" and could overpower teachers for the guns.
Sisters Katy Harmer and Caroline Lott, however, say arming teachers would make them feel better about sending their children to the Spring City Elementary School. The co-owners of the town's coffee shop, Das Coffee, said most Spring City residents keep guns for hunting, leaving only a handful without weapons.
Angela Johnson, owner of the Sinclair gas station, said she doesn't like guns but backs the council's proposal.
"If criminals knew they would be fired against, I think it would cause pause," Johnson said.
Because the Spring City Council is stopping short of a law requiring gun ownership, elected officials won't run afoul of state law, former Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff told KSL.com.
Shurtleff said that when the Washington County town of Virgin enacted a local law in 2000 requiring households to keep guns, he warned them against trying to enforce the measure.
Spring City leaders say they got the idea from a city in Georgia that passed a similar law. In 1982, Kennesaw, Ga., made headlines by requiring heads of households to own a gun and ammunition. On its website, Kennesaw boasts that its burglary rate declined after the law took effect.
Teachers at Spring City Elementary School won't be required to attend Friday's concealed weapons training, but can if they wish, Principal Mark Thomas said.
"I don't think there is anything wrong about being educated how to use a gun," Thomas said.
But Thomas doesn't believe having more armed teachers would necessarily prevent or mitigate the damage in mass shootings. Utah law allows teachers to have concealed weapon in classrooms, but the district doesn't advocate for that, Thomas said.
"By bringing weapons into school, are we creating more problems than we are solving?" he asked. "It could create a new problem. We don't want to deal with that problem."
The proposed ordinance will be discussed at the Feb. 7 City Council meeting. A public hearing will be held three weeks later.
1) It isn't mandatory; they are encouraging it but not penalizing those who don't comply.
2) A small town off of I-5 in Oregon had a similar law for years. The crime rate was dramatically reduced after this appeared in the newspapers. A few years ago the law was repealed as urbanites overran the place as part of suburban sprawl. Guess where the crime rate went after repeal?
It's interesting to me that a town, in a predominately Republican state, wants to make it a law that people in their town have to own and learn how to use a weapon. Aren't the Republican's the ones who are against big government?  So they only want less government when it's convenient to say so? If it has something to do with guns or your body, they want to make those decisions for you...
@justmyopinion - the *recommmends* having a firearm - it isn't a legal requirement. Either you are projecting your Democratic values on others or you have some issues with reading comprehension.
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I haven't noticed the Democrats leaving my body alone anyrmore than the Republicans - they seem to feel that every rapist and mugger should get a free crack at me and that supposedly an abortion will repair the damage. On the other hand, President Obama just signed an XO giving him armed security at no charge for life.
 @justmyopinion "Big government" does not mean ALL government. In general, political conservatives are for less intrusion by the Federal Government, with more power granted to State and Local governments. The case of this small town is a perfect example of one local government proposing a solution that fits with their community's demographic. "A gun in every house" would NOT work if it was proposed as a Federal Law, simply because the country as a whole is too big and too diverse.The great thing about the United States is that we are not "one size fits all". We are a hodge-podge mixture of opinions, beliefs, needs, and desires. By taking power away from the big Federal government, and giving it to the Local and State governments, the people have more say in how they live their lives.
and here is one story you will have to work to find:
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<http://news.yahoo.com/mom-shot-intruder-inspires-gun-control-foes-003753089.html>
@Alex Clayton , check out the pharmacy owner near Fresno who stopped a takeover robbery that began by the thieves coming in and immediately shooting his mother a day or two again. I believe it was in Madera. The police there believe that had he not been armed that the robbers intended to kill them before looting the drugs from the pharmacy.
 @Alex Clayton I love this story! It has the best ending! A perp with "5", count'em, "5" holes in him for his gallant effort to do harm to this family.
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So where are the police?? Oh yeah, they're on the way.  Too bad for the perp, but the police's response time is a lot slower than the response time of that woman's .38 cal.
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This family gets an "A+" rating for being prepared. The father taught his wife how to protect herself and their young ones while he is away. Smart man! Great mother instincts and great shooting mom! The "pro gun" and "pro being prepared" side of this nation stands with you and we're very proud to do so!
mines bigger then yours LOL
 @billibob You must be talking about your mouth, eh?
Ah.. and soon we'll be hearing the stories of the kids killed accidentally, the teens committing suicide with dad's gun, the angry spouse murdering their significant other, and the weapon stolen to be used in a crime. Â I'd move away from such a crazy, paranoid, place. Â
 @DT That sucking sound you hear is real life evidence making your little theory spiral the drain...it's been done before and it's one of the safest places to live in America: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia
Yep, sorry @DTÂ , but Kennesaw is a nice little town. Looks like someplace right out of a Norman Rockwell painting ;-). Very little crime. Nice and quiet. You wouldn't even know the people were armed, but then, you don't know that when you stand next to me in the grocery store I'm armed. Always. And I've never been involved in a violent scene. Have gun, no crime. Have no guns, (Gun Free Zone), mass shooting by a nut job. It's not hard to figure out if you're not a cartoon.
I jump into this fray becuase of the absurdity of where pro 2nd amendment rights groups are taking this arguement.
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The only stand they take is to arm more people in a country saturated with guns.
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At one time we had 99% of responsible gun owners now we have about 80%. The number of gun owners who are responsible has not gone down but the number gun sales are rising so fast and people are buying guns because it's the fad or society is scary, this produces too many irresponible gun owners-those who leave them lying around, lose them, have stolen out of thier cars, don't lock them in safe and thieves break in and steal them. They show off thier new gun and shoot themselves or someone else.
Lately we have heard to many accidental shootings, some guy dropped his gun in public, lucky no one was hurt.
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These are the issues the pro gun people should take up. Bad gun owners are making good gun owners look bad. This not the first I state this. It seems the NRA does not care who owns a gun as long as they don't lose thier right to own one. The problem with that theory  is-the right to own a gun will never go away and I mean that in a good way, I'm not giving my guns up!
@snoopy84, making up statistics only impresses the innumerate. Since no such research has been done, all you offer is an opinion with no evidence, proof, or analysis.
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BTW - the most famous firearm stolen out of a car in Seattle is the one that belonged to the nice police chief who thinks we are too irresponsible to own them.
I'm armed,not need a stupid rifle !
Why would someone "need" 78 guns, as the man they quoted in the article has? You can only use one or at most two at a time. Also, according to the article he has them all locked in a safe, so it's not like he has immediate, instataneous access to them. He would still have to tkake the time to get them out of the safe - and in that amount of time he could easily be dead. So much for having dozens of guns protecting him.
@LocalLady, there are different firearms for different sports. Also, just as some people collect cars or antique tractors or dolls, others collect firearms. My late father had a rifle for every form of legal game in North America although he hunted only a very few species. Yes, we ate what he brought home. He had the collection because they were fascinating technology.
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All firearms not in use go into a firearms safe, which means that the one you are using is on your person. Assume that 77 of those are locked up at any time.
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 @LocalLady He is making up for a physical deficiency, if you know what I mean.Â
@DT, please don't embarass me and the other women here by talking like a sterotypical bimbo. Women who obsess in public about male anatomy cause men to think that all women are obsessed with male anatomy and so the rest of us get harassed because folks like you just can't stop thinking about the size of the next one you see.
 @DT  @LocalLady How adult of you. Good to get your maturity level out on the table and out of the way early, so we can simply discard all future comments as childish.
 @LocalLady I have more than 78 guns, half of which I have never shot (nor will I ever). It is called collecting. There really is no need it is something I enjoy, and quite honestly is a very good investment. Unfortunately many that have an adverse view of guns do not see them as anything other than a tool for killing...but many many weapons of old are quite valuable and increase significantly with time.
 @aintno1special Oh, so there is ANOTHER use for guns besides killing?  do tell... just because you collect a guitar, and can't play guitar, does not change what it's made for. Same with guns.  Why in the world would people glamorize something that is designed solely for the purpose of killing a living thing?Â
 @DT A car's sole purpose is for transportation, and yet if I run someone down and kill them I get charged with assault with a deadly weapon. A tool is used as the operator sees fit.
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I just received a Swedish-K for my collection. It has not been fired and is mounted for display without ammo, nor a firing pin. I've had it for just a few days and have had several friends admire it. It's a collectors piece.
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The next time you buy a hammer, I'll believe you have murder in mind because I used to kill farm animals for butcher using the same tool. That hammer's sole purpose was to kill.
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This whole sole purpose argument is lame, old and worn out.
 @DT  @aintno1special Sport shooting, I own guns and I've never killed anything. You can't use that argument. There are to many thing out there that people do just for fun, and for no other practical reason other than they enjoy it.
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Also it would be a valid argument that guns serve the purpose of defending life, not simply taking it. There is a difference between killing someone, and murdering someone.
 @DT Do you realize that there are quite a few gun manufactures that make and design guns purely for target shooting? Yes the original design of a gun was to kill, but not the case anymore. Reading your posts I would not expect you to understand such a thing.
 @LocalLady I'm sure he has a gun within easy access at all times, as I do. You don't keep all your guns out in the open, just like you don't keep all your jewelry or watches out in the open where they can get stolen. You hide them, or lock the majority up for safekeeping, then only take out what you wear that day. No different than the gun I choose to carry that day. The rest are locked away where they are safe and protected. Besides that, I keep hearing this "need" aspect. It has nothing to do with "need"....besides that, who are you to determine what another person "needs"? It's arrogant and really none of your business how many guns anybody has. Certainly not your place to decide how many is "appropriate", nor the governments.
 @LocalLady I know someone that has 45 or more BBQ's. He doesn't need them and he can only cook on one or two at a time. But he loves them all and looks for more. He collects them. Don;t you have a hobby? As for protection, I have one gun hidden for protection. My family knows where it is at and they all know how to use it. We practice a few times a year at the gun range. The rest are locked up in a gun safe.
Stop the tyranny of the NRA! Sign the petition at
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/declare-national-rifle-association-be-domestic-terrorist-organization/0zgFjFdp
 @nutz2u @DarkParty @dg54321 There are actually intelligent people out there who would like to have a unemotionial, rational discussion about how we need to move forward to make our country a safer place. It's hard to do because the fringe on BOTH SIDES are too invested in their rhetoric to even give the other side a chance to speak.
@justmyopinion Great! Could you bring some of them here? It seems that the people here who claim that all they want to do is make America safe can't think of a way of doing so without disembowelling the Bill of Rights.
 @nutz2u Don't like the second amendment you are free to leave the country.  And for those of us that like our rights we would appreciate you leaving soon.
 @nutz2u Wow, really?
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Whereas the National Rifle Association promotes private ownership of weapons of mass destruction, and
Whereas the National Rifle Association condones the arming of private citizens in opposition to the legitimate government of the United States,
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 @DarkParty  @nutz2u The problem with the Internet is every crazy, nutjob and mentally deficient now has a voice. This "petition" nonsense is just another way to distract the people who think it makes a difference. It's already been made clear that Obama will ignore anything he doesn't like and will point to the petitions that mirror his statist views as "backing him up".
I saw a movie once where the military and police were the only ones with guns. It was called Schindler's List.
 @Starchaser So, why do you hate America? You really believe we of equal to a country bent on taking over the world? Maybe if you understood your history, it was mostly one class of people that were disarmed and housed in these camps. The Germans over all were a free people willing to fight for the fatherland.
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I'm offended as an American Veteran that you and other 2nd amendment crazies who hate our country and government keep comparing us to the some of the nastiest dictatored countries.
I'm proud of our country and love this country and don't appreciate you people degrading it.
 @snoopy84  @Starchaser Much as the people of Germany were fooled into thinking that Hitler was the best leader for them, the people of this country were fooled into thinking Obama was the best choice for leader. Just because we are America, doesn't mean that tyranny cannot come here. The founding fathers knew this, hence why our Constitution regarding division of power is set up the way it is, so the executive branch (ie, the President) cannot take total control and do what he wants. A setup the current administration is usurping by its love for the executive order.
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"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance".....us "2nd amendment crazies" are more patriotic than you are, just judging by your posts on here. We love this country and do not want to see it destroyed by the steady usurping of our rights by executive fiat. The fact that you do lays your claims of patriotism bare as the lies they are. Your military service (supposedly) is an appeal to authority and inconsequential. It seems the military does not teach what it is to be a free man any longer, but how to obey and do what you are told. Sad, and more than a little concerning.
@Sutekh @dg54321 @snoopy84 @Starchaser - sorry, but after hearing Obama demonize white people, patronize religious people, endorse riots, and attempt to trigger both class and ethnic warfare, I can see how some might see Obama as being closer to Hitler than you or I do.
 @dg54321 You challenge a man about his claim of service, insist he open himself up to Identity Theft to prove it - and THEN belittle his character when he tells you how he feels about your stupidity...and you call my remark "immature?
You haven't won anything.
Unless you are ready to publicly show your OWN proof of service, do NOT belittle someone else when they say that they have served. I don't care WHAT his/her politics or stands on issues are, until proved otherwise, I accept their claim of service to this country. I remember a time when service was belittled and shat upon by noodle heads who had no comprehension of what service means, who ignorantly defiled the freedoms of speech that others preserved for them, who hadn't the smallest drop of honor in their blood...and considered themselves as "American Patriots".
So, unless you are prepared to prove your own service - if you even have served - get off the soapbox and go sit in the corner. Learn about something called respect before expecting it from others.
 @OrcasThunder How mature and civil. Vulgarities just means I've already won the argument. Have yourself a wonderful day. ;)
 @Ramming Speed  @dg54321 "Thumbs up to you sir!"
Sorry, there is no room with his swelled head taking up all the room.
 @dg54321 Nicely said! Nothing better than a well worded slap down! Thumbs up to you sir!
@dg54321 @snoopy84 @Starchaser Do you reaaly believe any military veteran would post thier DD214?
I really don't care if you beleive me or not and it was 20 years not 4. I also spent 6 of those years opposite the Warsaw Pact east of the Fulda Gap and on the old Czech border. 3ID/Rock of the Marne.
Every time you post you insult the men and women of the military. You have not mentioned wether or not your a vet, but your right to free speech and your right to be armed and your right to petition the government and much more are secured by the men and women in uniform-Your Welcome!
 @Sutekh  @snoopy84  @Starchaser LOL.....yes because Obama's nonstop demonization of rural America, conservatives and just about anybody who doesn't agree with him has NO parallel to what happened in Germany. Homeland Security has been told to view people who talk about freedom and rights as "potential domestic terrorists"....no, no parallels here at all. Your complete refusal to see the obvious would be funny, if you weren't able to vote.
 @dg54321  @snoopy84  @Starchaser dg54321 wrote: "Much as the people of Germany were fooled into thinking that Hitler was the best leader for them, the people of this country were fooled into thinking Obama was the best choice for leader."
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This one sentence tells me that you know next to nothing about history.
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Hitler's main propaganda tactic was non-stop demonization of Jews, communists, and socialists. He portrayed them as domestic enemies who needed to be eliminated. Nothing Obama has said or done even comes close to that strategy.
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I personally think Obama's foreign policy is both murderous and counterproductive, but anyone comparing him to Adolf Hitler deserves nothing but derisive laughter.
 @snoopy84  @Starchaser Unless you're willing to post a link to your DD214, we have no way to verify you ever served in the military....hence why I said supposedly. Not meant as a personal attack, but there are a lot of people that claim military service as a appeal to authority, as you do, and have never served. Serving in the military for 4 years does not make one an expert on the Constitution, nor our government. It is clear from your posts that if they teach you anything about freedom, personal responsibility or rights that it did not sink in for you. Interesting that you mention the Soviet army, as it seems we have adopted some of their techniques for ensuring obedience of our armed forces. There are many who served that speak the truth regarding freedom and state that the military is not the place for those who value it. Then there are many such as yourself that make an unverifiable claim of service and make statements that verify, in my opinion, that if you DID serve, you were serving for all the wrong reasons.
 @dg54321  @Starchaser My military service is not supposedly and neither was my father's.
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Your description of today's military is unjust and offensive. it does tell me you may have never served your country and if you did you missed the point of defending the constitution. What you described was the doctrine of the Soviet Union Army.
 @snoopy84 I am confused by your reply. Where did I say I hated America?
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My family has fought in every conflict all the way back to the revolutionary war. I am proud of my past and want to make sure my grandchildren have a future safe from tyrants that want to erode our freedoms. As others have stated, we do not need more gun laws. We need more education on how to use our guns!
The Nixon story was on the front page of the NYT. Any reference librarian at the UW can help you find documentation on all of the other incidents I described.
@snoopy84, try reading some history. Back in the 1970s, before you were even born, we had a President named Richard Nixon. Mr. Nixon commissioned the Cato Institute to evaluate what would happen if the elections of 1972 were cancelled because of the riots in the streets. The Cato Institute suggested that there were millions of Americans with unregistered firearms who would probably disagree with that decision. The matter was dropped.
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In the 1910s-1920s, the original national organization in favor of strict gun control held power in many of the states - Oregon, Indiana, New Jersey, etc. This group was known as the Ku Klux Klan. My family had to fight a shooting war against them in Eastern Colorado because they wanted to lynch my great-grandfather and his son-in-law, my grandfather. They invented the term "Saturday Night Special" - although they often preceded the term with the word "N*****town". They were very concerned that young black men, and other young men they disliked for reasons of religion or ethnicity were killing each other - and even worse, shooting people who tried to lynch or flog them.
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It can happen here. From Wilson's imprisonment of those who protested WWI through the Bunker Plot and the internment of Americans of Japanese ancestry, it can and has happened here.
 @Starchaser It is comparing us to countries that were not in our league. The folks on TV defending gun rights keep saying our country is ready to take over the people. I find it offensive and paranoid.