Airlines can say: You can't wear that

DALLAS (AP) — Airlines give many reasons for refusing to let you board, but none stir as much debate as this: How you're dressed.
A woman flying from Las Vegas on Southwest this spring says she was confronted by an airline employee for showing too much cleavage. In another recent case, an American Airlines pilot lectured a passenger because her T-shirt bore a four-letter expletive. She was allowed to keep flying after draping a shawl over the shirt.
Both women told their stories to sympathetic bloggers, and the debate over what you can wear in the air went viral.
It's not always clear what's appropriate. Airlines don't publish dress codes. There are no rules that spell out the highest hemline or the lowest neckline allowed. That can leave passengers guessing how far to push fashion boundaries. Every once in a while the airline says: Not that far.
"It's like any service business. If you run a family restaurant and somebody is swearing, you kindly ask them to leave," says Kenneth Quinn, an aviation lawyer and former chief counsel at the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration.
The American Airlines passenger, who declined to be interviewed by The Associated Press, works for an abortion provider. Supporters suggested that she was singled out because her T-shirt had a pro-choice slogan.
A spokesman for American says the passenger was asked to cover up "because of the F-word on the T-shirt." He says that the airline isn't taking sides in the abortion debate.
Last week, Arijit Guha, a graduate student at Arizona State University, was barred from a Delta flight in Buffalo, N.Y., because of a T-shirt that mocked federal security agents and included the words, "Terrists gonna kill us all." He says the misspelled shirt was satirical and he wore it to protest what he considers racial profiling.
"I thought it was a very American idea to speak up and dissent when you think people's rights are being violated," Guha says. The pilot thought it scared other passengers.
American and Delta are within their rights to make the passengers change shirts even if messages are political, says Joe Larsen, a First Amendment lawyer from Houston who has defended many media companies.
The First Amendment prohibits government from limiting a person's free-speech rights, but it doesn't apply to rules set by private companies, Larsen says. He notes that government security screeners didn't challenge Guha; private Delta employees did.
In short, since airlines and their planes are private property and not a public space like the courthouse steps, crews can tell you what to wear.
In the early years of jet travel, passengers dressed up and confrontations over clothing were unimaginable. They're still rare — there aren't any precise numbers — but when showdowns happen, they gain more attention as aggrieved passengers complain on the Internet about airline clothing cops. It's unwelcome publicity for airlines, which already rate near the bottom of all industries when it comes to customer satisfaction.
Critics complain that airlines enforce clothing standards inconsistently. The lack of clear rules leaves decisions to the judgment of individual airline employees.
Last year, a passenger was pulled off a US Airways jet and arrested at San Francisco International Airport after airline employees say he refused to pull up his low-hanging pants. The local prosecutor declined to file charges against Deshon Marman, a University of New Mexico football player.
Marman's lawyer complained that the same airline repeatedly allowed a middle-age man to travel wearing women's underwear and not much else.
"You can't let someone repugnant like that (the cross-dresser) on the plane and single out this kid because he's black, wearing dreadlocks, and had two or three inches of his underwear showing," says the lawyer, Joseph D. O'Sullivan. "They can't arrest him for what someone perceives to be inappropriate attire."
US Airways spokesman John McDonald says no passengers complained about the cross-dresser until his photo in women's underwear circulated on the Internet after the Marman incident. He says the airline doesn't have a dress code but that employees may talk to a passenger if other people might be offended by the way he's dressed.
"It's not an issue of a dress code, it's one of disruption," like watching pornography within sight of other passengers, McDonald says.
An informal survey of passengers at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport found much support for limits on clothing.
"Curse words on shirts always bother me," says John Gordon, who just graduated from film school in Florida and was dressed in khaki shorts and a T-shirt. "It's an unspoken rule that when you go out in public, you should be respectful."
But Leigh Ann Epperson, a corporate lawyer who had just flown in from Tokyo, says she wouldn't be bothered if another passenger's shirt bore the F-word.
"If people are paying the price for their tickets, they should be able to wear what they want," says Epperson, who wore a black sweater over a low-cut blouse, black slacks and wedge-type heels.
Airlines say they refund the passenger's fare if they deny boarding for inappropriate attire.
Clashes over clothing and other flash points seem to be increasing, says Alexander Anolik, a travel-law attorney in Tiburon, Calif. He blames an unhappy mix of airline employees who feel underpaid and unloved, and passengers who are stressed out and angry over extra fees on everything from checking a bag to scoring an aisle seat.
Anolik says that passengers should obey requests from airline employees. If passengers don't, they could be accused of interfering with a flight crew — a federal crime. He says passengers should wait until they're off the plane to file complaints with the airline, the U.S. Department of Transportation or in small-claims court.
"They have this omnipotent power," Anolik says of flight crews. "You shouldn't argue your case while you're on the airplane. You're in a no-win scenario — you will be arrested."
A woman flying from Las Vegas on Southwest this spring says she was confronted by an airline employee for showing too much cleavage. In another recent case, an American Airlines pilot lectured a passenger because her T-shirt bore a four-letter expletive. She was allowed to keep flying after draping a shawl over the shirt.
Both women told their stories to sympathetic bloggers, and the debate over what you can wear in the air went viral.
It's not always clear what's appropriate. Airlines don't publish dress codes. There are no rules that spell out the highest hemline or the lowest neckline allowed. That can leave passengers guessing how far to push fashion boundaries. Every once in a while the airline says: Not that far.
"It's like any service business. If you run a family restaurant and somebody is swearing, you kindly ask them to leave," says Kenneth Quinn, an aviation lawyer and former chief counsel at the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration.
The American Airlines passenger, who declined to be interviewed by The Associated Press, works for an abortion provider. Supporters suggested that she was singled out because her T-shirt had a pro-choice slogan.
A spokesman for American says the passenger was asked to cover up "because of the F-word on the T-shirt." He says that the airline isn't taking sides in the abortion debate.
Last week, Arijit Guha, a graduate student at Arizona State University, was barred from a Delta flight in Buffalo, N.Y., because of a T-shirt that mocked federal security agents and included the words, "Terrists gonna kill us all." He says the misspelled shirt was satirical and he wore it to protest what he considers racial profiling.
"I thought it was a very American idea to speak up and dissent when you think people's rights are being violated," Guha says. The pilot thought it scared other passengers.
American and Delta are within their rights to make the passengers change shirts even if messages are political, says Joe Larsen, a First Amendment lawyer from Houston who has defended many media companies.
The First Amendment prohibits government from limiting a person's free-speech rights, but it doesn't apply to rules set by private companies, Larsen says. He notes that government security screeners didn't challenge Guha; private Delta employees did.
In short, since airlines and their planes are private property and not a public space like the courthouse steps, crews can tell you what to wear.
In the early years of jet travel, passengers dressed up and confrontations over clothing were unimaginable. They're still rare — there aren't any precise numbers — but when showdowns happen, they gain more attention as aggrieved passengers complain on the Internet about airline clothing cops. It's unwelcome publicity for airlines, which already rate near the bottom of all industries when it comes to customer satisfaction.
Critics complain that airlines enforce clothing standards inconsistently. The lack of clear rules leaves decisions to the judgment of individual airline employees.
Last year, a passenger was pulled off a US Airways jet and arrested at San Francisco International Airport after airline employees say he refused to pull up his low-hanging pants. The local prosecutor declined to file charges against Deshon Marman, a University of New Mexico football player.
Marman's lawyer complained that the same airline repeatedly allowed a middle-age man to travel wearing women's underwear and not much else.
"You can't let someone repugnant like that (the cross-dresser) on the plane and single out this kid because he's black, wearing dreadlocks, and had two or three inches of his underwear showing," says the lawyer, Joseph D. O'Sullivan. "They can't arrest him for what someone perceives to be inappropriate attire."
US Airways spokesman John McDonald says no passengers complained about the cross-dresser until his photo in women's underwear circulated on the Internet after the Marman incident. He says the airline doesn't have a dress code but that employees may talk to a passenger if other people might be offended by the way he's dressed.
"It's not an issue of a dress code, it's one of disruption," like watching pornography within sight of other passengers, McDonald says.
An informal survey of passengers at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport found much support for limits on clothing.
"Curse words on shirts always bother me," says John Gordon, who just graduated from film school in Florida and was dressed in khaki shorts and a T-shirt. "It's an unspoken rule that when you go out in public, you should be respectful."
But Leigh Ann Epperson, a corporate lawyer who had just flown in from Tokyo, says she wouldn't be bothered if another passenger's shirt bore the F-word.
"If people are paying the price for their tickets, they should be able to wear what they want," says Epperson, who wore a black sweater over a low-cut blouse, black slacks and wedge-type heels.
Airlines say they refund the passenger's fare if they deny boarding for inappropriate attire.
Clashes over clothing and other flash points seem to be increasing, says Alexander Anolik, a travel-law attorney in Tiburon, Calif. He blames an unhappy mix of airline employees who feel underpaid and unloved, and passengers who are stressed out and angry over extra fees on everything from checking a bag to scoring an aisle seat.
Anolik says that passengers should obey requests from airline employees. If passengers don't, they could be accused of interfering with a flight crew — a federal crime. He says passengers should wait until they're off the plane to file complaints with the airline, the U.S. Department of Transportation or in small-claims court.
"They have this omnipotent power," Anolik says of flight crews. "You shouldn't argue your case while you're on the airplane. You're in a no-win scenario — you will be arrested."
I'd like to make two points.  First, I agree that it's the airline's right to ban someone if they're not appropriately dressed for a flight.  But, at the same time, if there's a dress code that can actually keep you off the plane, shouldn't that code be published somewhere?  Otherwise, it seems pretty judgmental and arbitrary (which I think this case was).  Second, I really don't think this gal's outfit is objectionable.  Not attractive, maybe, but not worth kicking her off the plane.
 @magic_eye it is objectionable, just imagine your kids sit next to that falling off bubs..."...He says the airline doesn't have a dress code but that employees may talk to a passenger if other people might be offended by the way he's dressed...."
People are judgmental. This is a fact you cannot escape. You want respect? Dress respectfully. Sagging pants is one of those issues even I do not like. It makes me want to open a charity for those people who cannot afford good fitting pants and/or a belt. Another thing I do not like is over use of perfume and some people think that perfume can cover up the fact that they have not showered in a week.
 @Just a dude with you on the perfume! Geez, some people bathe in it.
What the heck is the rope about? Oh maybe she thinks her waist is way up there.
I have no problem with airlines enforcing a dress code. However, the rules need to be company policy and enforcement needs to be consistent.
 @alwaysbusy and posted on their website so people can know ahead of time what is not allowed. I do not wish to be delayed by a daisy dukes situation or the like...
 @two loons That's a great idea!
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BcXNzzzEL8&feature=related
It's well known around the globe Americans taste and class is lagging light years when it comes to dressing. And I'm not talking about the "Wall Mart crowd" either. People board airplanes and generally go out in the public in outfits I would not get caught dead wearing.
If you can wear it on a public beach then there is no reason to get up tight about it. Â I do understand banning something that is offensive or vulgar when it can be seen by children other then that people need to lighten up.
I wish we could go back to the days when people dressed up to fly. I would rock a 3 piece suit every time I flew.Â
 @Smashquail I still fly with a minimum of khakis and a button up.  The choice is all up to you.
 @Smashquail You still can!
I wish Wal Mart would say: You can't wear that
I take it that breast feeding is out of the question?
Â
Â
I'd let her sit next to me!
Why all the posts about the TSA? Read the article, its about private businesses enforcing values within their property. Real life isn't Do-Whatever-You-Feel -At-All-Times-and-Places. That is part of an expectation of maturity. The "public" needs to do some growing up. The student wearing a shirt talking about being killed by terrorists in "protest" and trying to board an airplane is simply stupid. Â
The irony of this is the TSA takes off all our close before we board anyways, so why the airline has a problem with it, I guess Iâm a little confused.
 @Kodiak if your clothes consists of your shoes and maybe a hat than you're right, otherwise you're way off as always with your blatant exaggerations
If she'd just excused herself, she coulda taken off her bra, and ta-da, no more cleavage! (Unless it was one of those garments with the built-in bra).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bxoAsvhcOI I don't think enough people watched Benny Hill as children.
This comment has been deleted
So, if they aren'y "Â fat, ugly, and classless women", then you give them a pass, eh?
Hotties get a pass?
"Â Fat, ugly, and classless men" get a pass?
Â
Hypocracy much, do ya?
 @spiffyjumper "Hotties get a pass" - yes
@2nd Baseman Really? because unless I misunderstood what you wrote, I may have mistaken you to be one of those cry babies. Just sayin.
That would not offend me at all. If an older woman wants to show off a little bit of cleave who cares. It gives you something to talk about on the ride home from the airport.
Honestly, people....no one's making you look at them. Â We are far too easily offended in this country and need to get over ourselves. Â It's not that hard to ignore it. Â Unless they reek, of course. Â Not so easy to ignore and can possibly make one ill.
I guess I know now why I so detest flying. From the minute you enter the airport, you've walked into a dicatorship.
Â
I don't like inappropriate attire either, but I don't like the idea that you can be arrested for protesting.
Â
Nobody was arrested, the businesses choose to enforce certain standards on their customers before offering their services. Â This isn't any different from restaurants saying "no shoes, no shirt, no service" or from night clubs requiring dress codes. @Waif
@CommutingGuy @Waif I agree, the airlines should publish what is not acceptable attire to board one of their airplanes.
Then, there would be none of these stories... and we wouldn't be able to leave all these comments for other people to read...
Â
 @Mr. H  @CommutingGuy do you mean to publish what is appropriate to wear???!!!
Most likely it was due to a customer complaint. Only in America and the Middle East would this ever happen...
Â
Otherwise they have no incentive to kick anybody off the plane.
So I was going to my flight at Atlanta international airport. Â I saw a guy wearing, woodland camouflage overalls, no shirt, flip-flops and a hat that read ****-u. Â He go on my flight. Â He smelled like dirt ****ed by a hobo. Â Sorry but I'll take cleavage over some of the other walking offenses that get on.
 @DeadRabitz I was thinking about the return flights from Vegas after big weekends. Many people haven't showered in days and are sweating alcohol.  The whole plane smells like turd.  I would gladly have a woman who isn't afraid of showing some skin sit next to me over these other people any day.Â
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHnqnyzegfc and this was Southwest Airlines.
There's no such thing as "too much cleavage."
 @Nitrofan so true
@DeadRabitz @Nitrofan Dudes, that isn't cleavage, it's FAT which looks like a little sweat in between. Nasty.
I remember when people wore respectable clothing and cleaned themselves before traveling on plane or train. Now it's a free for all for everyone to voice their political, personal and ideological agendas. They are all about the "hey look at me" instead of just getting through the travel period uneventful and not cause disruptions. Self respect sure doesn't mean what it use to.
 @Robinsnest I'm just an average size guy, and with the size of those seats, I wear what ever is comfortable for a 5 hour flight.
@Robinsnest yes but if TSA tells others what to wear where and when does it stop? It doesn't. Someday you could be confronted because your clothing, hair, etc does not pass the "society police".
 @raven  @Robinsnest The acronym TSA did not appear anywhere in the story.  This was about the airline.  No wonder this country is in the shape it's in.
The TSA has never told others what to wear to my knowledge. Â This article is about the private businesses setting standards for their customers.
This sentence in the story sums it up: Â In short, since airlines and their planes are private property and not a public space like the courthouse steps, crews can tell you what to wear.
If they don't want you on the plane with the F-word on your garment or your boobies or hoo-hoo hanging out of your clothes, it's their right. Â Exercise a little bit of restraint, common sense, and/or self-respect and you won't have a problem.
 @Doxie It think the issue is that those rules are not applied constantly.  A hot woman with cleavage might get on with out a word but a whole lot of looks.  Conversely an un-atractive woman will be told she needs to cover up.
Â
The other issue is that people are not informed as to these rules prior to arriving at that airport. Â I fly all the time and I have never seen a dress code.
I agree it's not applied consistently. Â There was that 'hot' girl escorted off a SW plane not long ago, whose skirt was not even to her fingertips though. Â And you won't see anything at the airport per se, because it IS a public place. I fly a lot (a lot!) and am not a prude, but I find myself shaking my head more and more, at the airport and just about everywhere else.
 @DeadRabitz I went to Shanghai in May and thought the exact same thing.  Speedy, efficient, but thorough and consistent security for all travelers.  Plus, it was a super-nice airport!  Hungary was the worst I've seen - but they got us in Frankfurt!  German airports are consistent and quick too. Â
 @Doxie So far the best security I have seen was in China.  Everyones documents are scrutinized.  Everyones stuff goes through an x-ray, everyone goes through a metal detector and everyone gets a quick pat down.  I was in a line with well over 200 people and it to less time to process through than any airport in the US.  In china, they took a quick look at my daughter leg and said go ahead.  Heck, they found two zippo lighters (Gifts) that where in boxes, wrapped in plastic buried in our checked baggage.  I actually felt safe getting on the jets in China. Â
Â
The last thing I'll say is that Chines airlines do something that NONE of ours do. Â They treat people with dignity and respect. Â I was in coach and got a meal, on a real plate with knife and fork. Â Not some pressed out piece of grey plastic like you give new inmate on suicide watch.
 @DeadRabitz Oh wow, how awful.  I get pulled aside for extra screening nearly every time, both here and abroad, and it's laughable how inconsistent even that is (the screening).  I laugh too - what's the point of having only half the people going through x-ray machines?  Either use them or don't.  If you're only imaging random people, why do it at all?  But what you describe is beyond the pale.  Disgraceful, really.  Sorry you and she have to go through that.
 @Doxie The one consistent things about the TSA and air travel in general, is that they are not consistent.  Every time I fly with my daughter, we have issues.  My daughter is a below knee amputee.  She wears a prosthetic leg.  We have to carry a copy of the TSA rules on how to deal with children and people with prosthetic limbs.  We do this because some airports know what to do, most don't.  The people at the Atlanta airport tried to separate my child and I.  They said "she'll be fine".  I said she is five and I will stay with her.  They got up set, so I asked for a supervisor and got out the rules. Â
I would have to say I completely agree with you that the rules aren't applied consistantly. So, you should take one look in the mirror, and think: should I be wearing this if I'm not a young, hot chick?" Most likely the answer is no, and therefore, you don't wear it. Bottom line, yes, young hot women get away with sometimes murder but that's life and people should be able to understand that and work around it.
@DeadRabitz @Doxie TSA at its finest!