Ken Schram: Let there be poker online
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SEATTLE -- April 15th, 2011.
It wasn't just tax day. It was the day gamblers call black Friday.
The federal government pulled the plug on Internet poker, and Texas Hold 'Em disappeared from computers in the United States.
Several years before that, Washington State had decreed that online poker players would face criminal penalties.
Wanna bet on how much longer before the law of the land changes?
Congress is poised to cash in on the Internet cash bonanza, the only question is who is going to regulate it.
Even tribal governments around the country - once adamantly opposed to the expansion of Internet gambling - have come to the reality that it is inevitable.
They want in.
There are those who argue that online gambling will feed the addictive nature of some who should be protected from such temptation.
To me, that's like saying we should pull liquor off the shelves to protect the alcoholic.
It's not government's job to morally protect us from ourselves.
But it keeps trying and it keeps failing.
Look, if I want to play penny poker on my computer, it's not the role of government to tell me I can't.
Time to correct the mistake of trying.
Have something to say to Ken? Login or signup below to post a comment. Just be sure to read the rules and keep things civil. You can also e-mail him at kenschram@komo4news.com. You can also connect with Ken on Facebook.,
It wasn't just tax day. It was the day gamblers call black Friday.
The federal government pulled the plug on Internet poker, and Texas Hold 'Em disappeared from computers in the United States.
Several years before that, Washington State had decreed that online poker players would face criminal penalties.
Wanna bet on how much longer before the law of the land changes?
Congress is poised to cash in on the Internet cash bonanza, the only question is who is going to regulate it.
Even tribal governments around the country - once adamantly opposed to the expansion of Internet gambling - have come to the reality that it is inevitable.
They want in.
There are those who argue that online gambling will feed the addictive nature of some who should be protected from such temptation.
To me, that's like saying we should pull liquor off the shelves to protect the alcoholic.
It's not government's job to morally protect us from ourselves.
But it keeps trying and it keeps failing.
Look, if I want to play penny poker on my computer, it's not the role of government to tell me I can't.
Time to correct the mistake of trying.
Have something to say to Ken? Login or signup below to post a comment. Just be sure to read the rules and keep things civil. You can also e-mail him at kenschram@komo4news.com. You can also connect with Ken on Facebook.,
And the Government wants to know why their approval rating is so low.
 @Steven Aet Are you sure they even care? I don't think they do.
Wagering on the horse races on-line is 100% legal. Why one and not the other?
Not only is it legal but you can do it 18 hours a day on the majority of the tracks around the world. From Emerald Downs to Japan to Australia and Great Britain.
It's all about survival of the least addicted.The ones running the games love those who need to play.
The money to be gotten is huge. When I go into a casino the people pulling on the machines seem like they are getting some kind of sexual gratification from it, especially when they win. With sex there is a physical limit to the pleasure gained in a certain amount of time. Gambling gives a person a rush every time they pull the lever. There would be many more who would be interested in doing it in the privacy of their homes. I'm just saying, the money is huge!
I can't help but think about the old folks who don't have much or much to do but they have an internet connection and the chance of winning BIG dollars. It doesn't take a genius to predict trouble.
I love it!
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Most computer virus are spread either thru porn or on-line gaming. Just like porn, most are offshore. Not only are the virus "distributors" outside US jurisdictions, so is their access to your bank account, credit cards, etc.
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Once they have access to your account, there is no stopping them from withdrawing all your money. And there is nothing you or your bank can do to get it back. Once the money is transferred outside the country, it is gone. And no, those credit card protections don't work overseas. Read the fine print.
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So, for protection of those willing to give the "casinos" or operators of on-line gambling their credit card number and security code, the government SHOULD make sure you are dealing with a US entity. But, you can't fix stupid.
Ironically enough, one of the biggest friends of online poker was... head prepare to explode...Barney "Double Down on Housing Bubble" Frank!
Thanks Ken for getting the word out. Online poker is very misunderstood by those who do not play. First of all, it is a game played by players against players, where "the house" has no interest in the outcome, and the players' skill is the primary factor in the outcome. Secondly, a vast majority of the players are playing for nickels and dimes, stakes that cannot be found in casinos, meaning there is no real competition with those Tribal casino interests our government is seemingly protecting.
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Widespread online casino type gambling is not a good thing, in my opinion, but poker clearly is a different matter. Why should our government make felons out of nickel and dime playing average citizens? It makes no sense at all, and clearly an exception should be carved out for online poker.
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With the right type of change to the law, in-state companies could offer online poker to our enthusiasts, with all of the protections and education that the state requires to protect underage and problem gamblers.
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In a State where the government runs an ever expanding lottery, the worst form of gambling there is, with astronomical odds against the players and where poor people throw away much needed dollars on a pipe dream of instant riches, it is the height of hypocrisy to take such a stand against online poker.
 @curtinsea The house may not have an interst in who wins but they certainly have an interest in all the money.  Not only do they rake the pots they control all those deposits, and that is a hell of a lot of money!
 @curtinsea You have no idea if you're playing against people or bots that were programmed by the site when you do it. Many of those sites are hosted off-shore and are not under US jurisdiction. A fool and their money are soon parted.
 @NorthwestEconomist It's true.  However, this particular fool deposited $200 and over two years enjoyed a nice hobby that paid for several small and large improvements to my home.  Now I would like the rest of my money back, please and thank you, DOJ.  I'd like to relandscape my yard with some of my remaining funds on Full Tilt.
@NorthwestEconomist @curtinsea your almost right,a fool should have the right to choose how to part with his money.
@toadaway You're right... your money is already gone, LOL!Â
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Thankfully women still have their money.
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How many can read between the lines?
The most disgusting and shameful part of the WA ban on online poker is that the chief sponsor of the Bill in Olympia was Sen. Margarita Prentice (D) - Renton. Why? Because her biggest campaign supporters in addition to the payday loan industry are the Indian tribes, who naturally are against gambling anywhere except their casinos.
....on one hand, Our Queen pleads poverty. If you want to keep sex offenders & other verminous criminals locked up, if you don't want the elderly & sick old seniors tossed out into the streets, if you want our children educated, if you want to keep our State Parks open, etc., etc., etc.....you MUST raise taxes on yourselves.
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ON the other hand, she took over $$600,000 from the tribes for legislation she signed off on to pass up MILLIONS that could have gone to the benefit all of us to keep said taxes in check, and help said above causes.
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She obviously did not bite the hand that fed her.
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 @Sydthepiper Whaaaa? So you say she took MONEY from the tribes and then... just coincidence... signed off on legislation that would have allowed the State it's "fair share?" Zounds man... what nonsense be this?
Awesome news. I enjoyed playing online poker before it was banned whenever I did not feel like driving to a casino. This would be a great alternative to getting the poker fix. I agree that there should be some regulation in the US but at least make it legal to play. If people want to lose money either in the casino or online, so be it. That's their choice. Some people also make a living off of online poker. Overall, I think it's more positive than negative to bring back online hold'em!
For the most part, I'm a big believer in a hands-off government. Â Online gambling needs oversight, but outlawing it completely isn't the answer. Â It just moves the people who want to do it underground.
Everyone should look up "US v. Scheinberg," the Supreme Court case that Ken is referencing as "black Friday."
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Ken fails to mention the basic fact that these WERE NOT American companies. They were headquartered in places like Isle of Man, completely out of U.S. jurisdiction.Â
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As NorthwestEconomist points out, the consumers had NO recourse and no way of knowing up from down.
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Now, if Ken wants to talk about legal, online gambling from websites hosted in the U.S. and subject to U.S. regulations, then let's have that discussion.Â
@caphillkid "Ken fails to mention the basic fact that these WERE NOT American companies."
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You mean like Enron, MF Global, Pedegrine, B.O.A, Bear Stearns, etc, etc etc? You want that discussion?
 @T_BONE_WALKERÂ
Enron, MF Global, B.O.A, etc. all have a US presence that can be regulated. Most off-shore "casino" operators are based in Barbados or the Bahamas. We have no control over them. If they choose to drain your bank account, they can. There is usually a 3 day transfer delay. If you don't catch it, the money is electronically transferred. Once out of the country, it is GONE! There are no international agreements nor fraud police that can get it back. I know from experience with my father's B.O.A account. The banks response, "Sucks to be you" End of story.
@A.V. Transparency international world corruption index rates Barbados at number 16 and the US at 24. Given the level of corruption here over the last 20 years, I'd say the 24 was generous and I'd a probably given the US a 54. Barbados is trusted more by the world business community and myself then the US. This is the cost of bought off politicians.
It's not even close to being the same. Those companies still operate in the U.S. and are subject to U.S. laws. The offshore gambling sites were completely out of U.S. jurisdiction.Â
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@caphillkid "Those companies still operate in the U.S. and are subject to U.S. laws"
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lol in the land of no rule of law? I'll tell Jon Corzine that he was subject to US law 10 months ago when he stole 1.6 Billion from the personal accounts of MF Global clients with no arrest, supeona, indictment, or investigation. He is walking around somewhere a free man.
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"The offshore gambling sites were completely out of U.S. jurisdiction." Dont you really mean, out of the reach of US businessmen? Thats the whole problem, someone beat the US businessman to the draw.
 @caphillkid I'm glad someone pointed that out. I knew of a few sites that were out of our tax loop and if they decided not to pay you, you're up the creek. It does need to be monitored for the under 18 crowd, but there is alot on the net that should also be.
"It's not government's job to morally protect us from ourselves. But it keeps trying and it keeps failing."
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Some might use the same argument in regards to drugs and prostitution Ken.Â
 @BobDobbs I was actually going to comment on that. I don't know whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with Ken's comment. I happen to agree with Ken. There is no reason our government should be involved on how people spend their money when we have lotteries, scratch tickets, etc. I think they couldn't get a piece of the pie. Either way, why is it always someone else's responsibility to monitor the personal behavior of another person?
Online poker that uses real money (more than just an amusement game) is so stupid. The government should keep it illegal, otherwise idiots will be spending their unemployment and public assistance checks on on-line gambling and lose everything. Yeah, the same could be said for slots in casinos but it takes effort to go to the casino.Â
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The inescapable problem with online poker or gambling is that the cards can be anything the computer/programmer wants them to be. When you are playing poker live, in person, you see the dealer spread the whole deck out and then shuffle it. Online makes it too easy to be scammed, and good scammer sites will develop formulas and most will keep their infrastructure and servers off-shore and/or encrypted with no way to regulate it.
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For those saying legalize it, remember this. The internet is NOT Vegas. There is no way to send a gaming inspector to check if an online game is rigged.
People should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't physically hurt anyone else. Having said that you have to be an idiot to do online gambling. But its your money. If you volunteer to let someone else steal it from you so be it.
Ken is right about government officials that keep on wanting to legislate morality. The more they try it the more oppresive the government becomes and the more the people will start to fight back. You can't even trust the government to run SSI which about the simplest government program there is. You can't expect them to do any better about trying to legislate morality.
"To me, that's like saying we should pull liquor off the shelves to protect the alcoholic."
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If only it was the alcoholic that suffered. How many drunk driving fatalities are their each year?
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It is never just the individual involved that suffers. It is a very fine line between protecting society and infringing on freedom.
@acepaul Wow is almost all I can say... ever heard of a DUI? Its kinda a law. Oh, yeah... THUMBS DOWN!
 @This_again? Obviously there is such a thing as a DUI. Unfortunately, I have never heard of this law bringing somebody back to life.
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But we are talking about two different levels here. A similar law to the no online poker law would be a no drinking law. On the other hand a similar law to a DUI law would be a law against spending (nonexistent) money while over a certain level of gambling debt. Perhaps you can see the difference?
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The initial level of activity can lead to the second level which is where the harm spreads out from the instigator. The tricky part is that even with DUI laws, there are still many fatalities from drunk drivers. There would certainly be less if the only outlet for alcohol was the black market. But then you run into the oppression of freedom issue again.
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Our country and its laws are only adequate for those with the discipline to govern themselves. The question is, what do you do with those who do not exercise this discipline?
It is a very fine line and that's why we should be concerned about what's going on in this country. Unfortunately common sense is slowly drying up and there are a lot of people out there that will gladly give up their freedom to have the government protect us and control every
aspect of our lives so we feel "safe"......if that's what you want is a false sense of security.
Playing online poker for money is a Class C felony in Washington. A greater charge than most sex offenses and stiffer sentences!
The only reason the State has made it this difficult is because they can't "regulate" or get any revenue from it.
With this logic, Washington may make it illegal to buy anything on the Internet because they can't get a sales tax out of it.
It is pretty hypocritical to allow Lotto, MegaMillions, PowerBall, scratch off tickets, pull tabs, State card rooms, horse racing, Indian Casinos and other gambling institutions and then claim they are protecting our families from the ravages of Gambling Addictions by banning Internet Poker.
 @RTNavy "...sex crimes and stiffer sentences" What next? A hung jury?
 @RTNavy The other issue is that it appears they aren't even trying to stop it, which I am happy about but why make a law with no intents of enforcing it, stupid.  There are plenty of online casinos, poker, and sports books still allowing US players.
 @oledawg How would the incompetent bureaucrats in WA state ever work out how to ban online poker? That is rather like banning online sales where WA state doesn't get it's tithe.
"It's not government's job to morally protect us from ourselves."
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Actually Ken, that IS one of the functions of good governance and while you are at it I suppose just dismantling civilization by letting anyone do anything they want at any time regardless of the impact on others or society is an idea you fully support. By your logic then the "Nanny State" has no business telling someone they can't download child pornography or threaten their ex on line or express their "free speech" to harass someone to the point of them taking their own life or even sell substandard counterfiet car parts on line or give away heroin to high school kids to get them hooked. Individual judgement is what we have laws to proect each other from, Ken. If we could trust individual judgement across the board and if guys like you really did take responsibility for every action they chose to engage in or endorse then we would not need laws.
@Citizen#3457899654 some of us prefer to think for ourselves and don't need a government mommy to think for us,like you obviously do.You just keep voting liberal and leave the rest of us alone.
@Citizen#3457899654
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Everything that you stated...
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 "By your logic then the "Nanny State" has no business telling someone they can't download child pornography or threaten their ex on line or express their "free speech" to harass someone to the point of them taking their own life or even sell substandard counterfiet car parts on line or give away heroin to high school kids to get them hooked. Individual judgement is what we have laws to proect each other from, Ken."
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...has nothing to do with protecting us from ourselves- they ALL have to do with protecting us from others. Child porn? Affects children. Threaten their ex? Affects the ex. Harassing someone? Affects the person being harassed. And so on... The Government has no place to tell us how to use our land, use our money or how to think. The issues you mention have to do with illegal activity- there is nothing morally wrong about online poker (what about horse racing, lottery, bingo, slot machines, etc.?).Â
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I can't believe that a person (you) actually could believe that "Individual judgement is what we have laws to proect each other from, Ken."
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Talk about bending over and giving yourself to your overlord - and then thanking them and asking for more...
Ken, you can't have it both ways. You embrace the nanny state mentality by supporting your cronies in government yet you want to have things untouched by government such as online poker. When government touches/restricts an item that affects you personally then you cry foul but if government touches/restricts something that you do not care about you say nothing. Typical of you!
Well said Ken, somebody get the governor on the horn! Hopefully she gets a cell signal while shes tucked firmly in the back pockets of the tribes. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Tribes-give-big-to-Gregoire-avoid-sharing-casino-1276446.php
How much was it that Chris, don't call me Christine Gregoir got from the tribes? Hundreds of thousands....?
Lest we not forget about dear Margarita Prentice who introduced legislation to make it a felony to gamble on-line in this State...how much did she get?Â
(p.s.-Shhhhhhhhhh...don't tell anyone, but I think they're both democrats....our secret)
Personally, I always thought it was more entertaining to go to a casino and watch other people win or lose their money while I'm playing.
 @Darn it! I personally think that on-line poker is as exciting as watching grass grow.
 @Furd It isn't meant to be watched, it is meant to be played.
@RTNavy Reading comprehension is not your strong suite... you too oledawg and toadaway.
Once we go ahead and legalize prostitution and drugs, most of our "crime" problem will go away. Â Why should the government be in the way of preventing people that want to do those things from doing so?
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Why stop at poker, it should be legal to play any of the online casinos or sports books.
I agree with you Ken. 100%