The Schrammie: Don't mess with the red kettles
It's been a Christmas tradition for more than a hundred years.
Slowly but surely, retailers are shutting it down.
So if all those supermarkets and all those department stores that have decided to keep the Salvation Army's red kettle at bay would suppress their inner Scrooge for a moment, I'd like them to come on down.
Traditionally, the red kettle makes its appearance the day after Thanksgiving, what is now called "Black Friday."
Not this year.
This year a host of retailers are either saying "no kettle" or asking the Salvation Army to wait until a week before Christmas before the bells begin to ring.
Seattle's Salvation Army counts on its kettle collections for about $4 million in donations.
That is money that goes to help the needy, the homeless, the hungry and the marginalized.
It is hard to get my head around the reasons that retailers are bailing out on the red kettle.
Some say the sound of the bell ringing is too annoying.
Some say retailers don't want customers feeling guilted into giving.
I think it's that corporations don't care because they don't have to.
And for that reason, I think those messing with the red kettle should take a bow, because this "Schrammie" is for them.
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Have something to say to Ken? Login or signup below to post a comment. Just be sure to read the rules and keep things civil. You can also e-mail him at kenschram@komo4news.com. You can also connect with Ken on Facebook.
Slowly but surely, retailers are shutting it down.
So if all those supermarkets and all those department stores that have decided to keep the Salvation Army's red kettle at bay would suppress their inner Scrooge for a moment, I'd like them to come on down.
Traditionally, the red kettle makes its appearance the day after Thanksgiving, what is now called "Black Friday."
Not this year.
This year a host of retailers are either saying "no kettle" or asking the Salvation Army to wait until a week before Christmas before the bells begin to ring.
Seattle's Salvation Army counts on its kettle collections for about $4 million in donations.
That is money that goes to help the needy, the homeless, the hungry and the marginalized.
It is hard to get my head around the reasons that retailers are bailing out on the red kettle.
Some say the sound of the bell ringing is too annoying.
Some say retailers don't want customers feeling guilted into giving.
I think it's that corporations don't care because they don't have to.
And for that reason, I think those messing with the red kettle should take a bow, because this "Schrammie" is for them.
---
Have something to say to Ken? Login or signup below to post a comment. Just be sure to read the rules and keep things civil. You can also e-mail him at kenschram@komo4news.com. You can also connect with Ken on Facebook.
Have to wonder who's in charge. Â They bombard us with various breast cancer charity collectors outside and inside the stores (who in the heck knows where all that money goes?) and reject the one charity that we know actually does good with the money they collect. Â I'm going to donate to every red kettle I see this year.
i found the bell ringers cheerful and a cheerful holiday start, and they do help those who seek help, if they r told to shut down. it will be sad !
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 @MajorJim Major Baker, I agree that Ken made a bad call on this, but not for the reasons you have.
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The bell ringers are not at fault, nor are you, I hope.
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Ken, I sent you a letter at least 3 times explaining the theft and hell that was going on at The Salvation Army......you never replied. Carlson did, but you did not. I will gladly resend it.
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I post this in good faith. Though many of us had a horrendous experience working there, I know that SA means the best, and intends to "Do the Most Good".
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Not in my experience.
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I did 300+ hours of FREE internship at SA, and worked there for 3 years after that.
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To let everyone know, there is an RCW that protects Religious organizations in Washington against lawsuits for discrimination as an employer.
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Under the RCW they are free to do whatever. You can call someone ANYTHING you want, call out race, sex....anything. The RCW protects ANY Church based organization from lawsuit from an employee.
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Many people do not realize it, but many of the social workers in your community work for a Church. Many of them make less money than the people they are helping. But, that is what you accept when you want to help people. I did.....NEVER again.
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The loopholes are shameful, and the treatment of employees is disgusting, as is the treatment of people seeking help.
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This is over YEARS of people that went through living hell working there. Nothing we could do could stop the theft:
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The unacceptable use of general funds (from kettles) that paid the rent and utilities for the Majors children, employees using the food bank to cater Church functions for their own home Church....etc.
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You and I both know how funding works, the public is not really aware.
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I hope they educate themselves, they would be stunned.
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The racism we endured will never, ever be forgivable. I was called a white b, a cracker a&* bitch, a c*#%, any name you could come up with. My coworkers, amazingly, got it worse. My other coworkers were called spics, wetbacks.... to their face.....there was NO accountability.
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I had a coworker call me a white bitch in front of a client....TQ told me that it was "rude and inappropriate for her to call you a bitch, but the fact that she said "white" before it was an "observation'. Are you kidding me?
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Everyone, listen up, this is how they work.
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It is real, and we reported it up to National Headquarters. They pretended to care, wrote encouraging emails, thanked us for bringing this up, Â but did nothing.Â
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I worked under Majors that I will not name, but they were removed for a reason, after regular reassignment. Major Baker, Â know that is serious.
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That staff was the most offensive group of people I have ever encountered.Â
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We witnessed theft, we endured the most heinous abuse and racial profiling that I hope you never see. We were humiliated beyond belief and 3 women, close to retirement, had to walk away because the stress of "being an honest person, being the best steward of funds" blew up in their face.Â
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I really hope you run your Corps as it should be: Diligent, the best stewards of the money you receive.....and just being good people in general.
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Major Baker, I hope you do not allow this in your Corps, and encourage you to educate other Corps.Â
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I encourage everyone to investigate any charity they donate to. Just make sure you earmark any money you give. Do not EVER donate money without earmarking it to something specific.Â
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Ken, I remind you of something, in case you missed it. Â We just had an election here in Washington, in which Referendum 74 passed by a margin of 7.4%. Â This is fundamentally embarrassing. Â Not that the referendum passed; Washington can be proud that it believes in equality. Â No, it's embarrassing because the vote occurred in the first place. Â In this place we'd like to all consider ourselves equal, the entitlement of "tradition" meant that thousands of Washington residents had to sit back and watch their very rights as humans put up for popular vote.
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A mere three weeks later, you metaphorically spit in the face of those thousands of Washington residents, chastising stores for standing for ALL its customers. Â And you invoked "tradition." Â The tradition that the Salvation Army practices is one that enables a senior officer and Public Relations individual say that "Gay people should be put to death." Â A tradition that in writing explicitly condemns homosexuality in its mission statement. Â A tradition that practices that condemnation in delivery of services to many of those who are marginalized. Â Surely you realize, Ken, that the incidence of LGBT youth homelessness far exceeds the incidence in the general population.
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Just because it's tradition doesn't mean it's right. Â I applaud businesses for taking a stand and speaking out against traditions when they're wrong. Â Helping people should be about helping people. Â Not about morality. Â Not about proselytizing. Â Not about tradition.
I was a bell ringer for them in High School. They are a horrible organization and I wont donate to them and quite frankly wish they would go away.
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They would stop by to check on us and shake our kettles. They would yell at us if they didn't think we had enough change and would tell us to be more aggressive. As a customer I have had them yell at me for just walking by.
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Donating is a good thing to do but there are much better charities out there that do more good for more people. Salvation army is pathetic.
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Ken they are also the champions of anti-equality. I am on a very small fixed income but I dropped a dollar into a local food kitchen box today. Not a dime for the SA due to their anti LGBT stance.
The retailers feel that the shoppers are putting money into those kettles that the retailer wants in his till. Perhaps we should ONLY shop at stores where the red kettle is present?
 @Dragontech64 Not the issue, try again.
There are much better orgs to donate to.
Well, in my area, the red kettles were out BEFORE thanksgiving. I don't feel guilty about not giving to them. For one, I can't drop money in every kettle I see/hear. For another, I give directly to the charities I decide to support - and have supported for years. And, Finally, these red kettles have become targets of druggies and other thieves, and I don't feel like supporting them when they steal the kettles right out from the bell ringer's nose!
 @Traveler So you think we should persecute bellringers because they get robbed by criminals?
For the record, Ken, I will not give one penny to the Salvation Army. This is a "charitable" group that has been known in the past to discriminate against the LGBT crowd - forcing one family with kids out to the streets simply because they weren't one man and one woman.
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So, I say kudos to the businesses that no longer allow this bigoted organization to fleece money from an unsuspecting population.
 @reneehendricks Wow. I was completely unaware of this aspect of the Salvation Army.
 @reneehendricks Interested in knowing more about this. I know they were on the same side as many churches not wanting to provide benefits, etc for LGBT community. But throwing them out? Can you point me to an article. If true, I will no longer donate either.
 @marvin Here's one good article on this issue: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/12/16/dont-donate-to-the-salvation-army-dont-donate-to-charity
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I used to give to them as well until I found out about those being turned away due to being homosexual.
 @marvin  @reneehendricks I worked at the Tacoma Location and witnessed 3 homosexuals removed from the shelter, and told to their faces why. One of them was in the shelter less than 4 hours before someone mentioned they were gay and was promptly removed. Their information had not even been entered or filed yet.
 @Melissa Angevine  @reneehendricks Indeed that is sad.
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 @Melissa Angevine  @marvin This is exactly why I won't donate to them any longer. *All* human beings should be treated with kindness and charity when the need arises. To discriminate based on their sexuality just makes me sick.
i am with you on this one ken they are a good cause  you need to give a list of the stores that have then and do not
The Salvation Army is a church. A lot of people don't even know that.
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Directly from their website:
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"The Salvation Army is a Christian organisation and part of the universal Christian Church.
Its message and the lifestyle it advocates are based on the Bible's teaching. Its work is to make known the good news about Jesus Christ and to persuade people to become his followers.
Everything The Salvation Army does is rooted in the faith of its members. The confidence Salvationists have in a loving and caring God finds outward expression in their love for humanity and their practical response to human need."
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I don't support Christian churches and I am glad that retailers are saying no. If people want to support churches, they can support them directly. Personally, I would prefer businesses (most of which are publicly traded companies) to not get involved with or support churches.Â
 @lakeview Unlike most churches though, rather than trying to get you to follow your faith by brow-beating you, or talking you to death, the Salvation Army tries to show what they consider "God's love" by doing things to help others. Granted, they are not perfect on that, and their record with the LGBT community is really horrible, but there are worse out there, and it is hard to find an organization committed to doing as much good as they do. I do put money in their kettle, though I have little enough as it is, because they do help. Until someone better comes along to provide that help, I give where at least SOME help is.
 @Dragontech64   actually, they do push their agenda on those in the shelter, which is not supposed to happen because of the funding they use for that program. They were forcing people in the shelter to eat dinner at the Church on "family night". if they refused, they did not eat.Â
 @Dragontech64  @Melissa Angevine I'm guessing you are not LGBT. I'm happy they helped you. If they had suspected you were gay, they would have kicked you out into the street while telling you that you would be going to hell.Â
 @Melissa Angevine All the times they have helped me and my family, not once did we hear word one about their faith. Considering ours is far different from theirs, that is a relief. I cannot speak about the shelters because I've never been there, but that is also not the only help they provide. They helped me keep my rented house and the electricity on in it, when I was out of work after a heart attack, no questions asked, beyond showing I legitimately needed the help.
 @lakeview People that do good work do good work regardless of how they choose to affiliate to do it. I don't think the bell ringers ever said you had to convert. I've seen them at disasters and again, never choosing to say a word about their beliefs. Just helping. Choosing to not support them because of their religion is the very discrimination you would seem to despise, making you the bigot here.
 @marvin  @lakeview This organization does their best to single out and vilify LGBT individuals. This is not good work. It is bigotry.
 @lakeview Then I hope you don't use those hospitals that are connected to the Catholic Church. They only make up 12% of the number of hospitals in the country. They only treat 1 in 6 Americans annually. Â
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You don't have to agree with the ideology that is behind the actions. The Salvation Army does a needed service to assist the poor and downtrodden. I will not turn away a helping hand because the man/woman offering it is an Atheist. They will not deny a person charity if their faith, or lack thereof, differs from their own. Â
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You probably don't like them because you have no wish to donate and the bell reminds you of it.Â
"The Salvation Army does a needed service to assist the poor and downtrodden."
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There are plenty of other organizations that do the same thing WITHOUT the proselytizing. Thus, there is no reason to give to the SA unless you want to help them proselytize.
I remember back in the late 60's early 70's if anyone ask for any kind of help, you were required to attend and listen to a sermon before they would help with food, or anything, true story, it happened to me.
 @Dragontech64 That would all depend on what you came in for, who was helping you and what funding was being used.Â
 @wayne0004 Salvation Army has provided help to me and my family on several occasions in the past, and NOT ONCE preached their faith at me. They do help the poor (mostly) and without preaching.
 @lakeview so use do not want them to help the poor who would you rather have do it the broke govt
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 Klondiko: How is my issue with the United Way? My issue is with an employer who hounded us daily for donations and then steals the very donations I provided for the community, not for my employer.
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I guess you could say theft is my "issue".
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I never suggested not giving to charity, I suggested people investigate who they are giving money to.
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Grinch...hmm.....whatever helps you feel better. Name calling is really mature and definatley makes an adults argument more solid. SMH
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Happy Holidays!
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BRAVO!!!
This just in, Ken has agreed to have a kettle outside his home from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM!
They should allow the kettles but just ban the bells, I agree that they are annoying, and I really doubt the bells increase donations one bit
 @CommutingGuy The bell wakes people up and gets them to look. Most stores that allow them don't want them directly in front of the doors, its a fire hazard. But the sound makes you look and see.
It's interesting how they would attack someone or something that has a connection with a Christian God, yet they still hold Christmas sales.
 @DDG How is this an attack? It's the companies' private properties. They make the rules. If you don't like it, shop somewhere else.Â
When I worked at Salvation Army in the Social Services department I donated to the United Way, (pretty much forced down our throats), and later received a letter of thanks from The Salvation Army, MY EMPLOYER, for my donation to them.
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Someone in the office (blame leaned towards the Majors) altered my donation and earmarked it for SA. I was FURIOUS. Sad thing, I would have never known they did that had they covered their lies better and not sent me a thank you.
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These funds can be used for ridiculous things, such as: paying the rent and utilities for the leaders children that don't work, purchasing goods that employees use for Church functions at their own home Churches (not SA), Buying bulk supplies of things that the staff steals......the list goes on.
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If you like pissing your money away, please continue to put money in the kettles. If you really want to help, go to an actual location of a Charity, ask questions, see what they do in person. Always write a CHECK earmarked for something specific.Â
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Throwing money in a kettle to "feel good" is not helping anyone but yourself.
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 This was years ago, and the way the sheet was laid out was that your donation would go to The United Way fund if you did not specifically earmark it for something else. Someone in my office took it upon themselves to earmark it for SA.
I physically saw what had been done to the paper.Â
@Melissa Angevine Sounds like your issues are with United Way. Grinch much?
 @Klondiko   I don't think you read her story very well. She marked her donation to go TO United Way and it ended up going to the Salvation Army instead.  The implication is someone changed her giving sheet at the office before they submitted.  This is part of the reason when the little sheets go around the office every year to participate in the giving campaign, I don't. I look online and find the charities I specifically want to donate to and donate directly there online.Â
 @quidproquo And you know, the thought that they would do that NEVER crossed my mind.
 @quidproquo Thank you for actually reading the post!
I'm an atheist and the Salvation Army is one of 2 christian based non profits that I donate to. The other is Habitat for Humanity. They both do good owrk and don't have excessive administration costs that the donations get pissed away on. I also like Northwest Harvest. Don't donate to Lifeline, they charge food banks for the food, Northwest Harvest donates the food to the food banks. The bell ringers never bother anyone where they setup, they're always polite, they hurt no one.
 @Blindman Inside info from a food bank. Its best to donate directly to the food bank of your choice. All of the "compilers" have lots of rules and processes to follow. Some of them good, but most of them just take away time from the people who are trying to feed the hungry.
 @marvin  @Blindman Mom was director of a food bank for 15 years. Donating o an agency like Northwest Harvest makes the money go a little further than if you buy food and donate to a local foodbank. I don't recommend donating much money directly to foodbanks because they eat up too much of the money in administrative costs. Mom never took a penny when she was director, but now a days directors of most food banks get a pretty nice salary. In those cases you're better off just donating food to the local foodbanks.
 @Blindman Well, lets not go too far off the deep end. My dad is the director of the local food bank and he indeed gets a salary. To clarify he makes $12k per year, works 50-60 hours a week, 6-7 days a week and drives his own car for most of the food bank's pickups with a $50 / mo gas stipend. If food banks can't get cash for "administrative costs", you may as well not donate food. The biggest expense, by the way, is not food nor the directors salary. It is electricity to run the ancient freezers they use. This is his second food bank that he's run and both have all of that in common. They need both food and money. Money keeps the infrastructure in place.